Kenny Dalglish Won't Be Delivering the Module: English Premiership 2011-12

Not sure. It used to all be Bobby Robson's job back in the day. I imagine it'd've changed by the time eg Keegan was appointed.

― Ismael Klata, Monday, 30 April 2012 10:43 (1 year ago) Permalink

you can seperate tactics into 'putting them in the right place' and 'telling them to do the right things', but really it's baffling how often (i) has been a struggle for HR since xmas and (ii) consequently doesn't get a look in

― diafiyhm (darraghmac), Monday, 30 April 2012 11:40 (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

hr has never been a good tactician, in the proper sense of the word. didn't vdv come in and say how happy he was that hr doesn't do any of the stuff jose did and just says something nice and motivational and tells him to just play? and when that doesn't work, he just 'as a go wheeling and dealing and gets rid of him.

― Thoughts? You must have loads. (a hoy hoy), Monday, 30 April 2012 10:50 (1 year ago) Permalink

my idea of intellectual colossus = Alan Turing, Perry Anderson

― the pinefox, Monday, 30 April 2012 10:54 (1 year ago) Permalink

Roy Hodgson = charmingly, cheeringly literate, well-read, multilingual, gracious, gentlemanly football manager

― the pinefox, Monday, 30 April 2012 10:55 (1 year ago) Permalink

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/england/9235783/Is-Harry-Redknapp-paying-the-price-for-being-a-maverick-like-Brian-Clough.html

Hayward reacts

― the pinefox, Monday, 30 April 2012 10:58 (1 year ago) Permalink

in footballing context hodgson is several layers above a god in intellectual terms- though his gut instincts may not match the backstreet smarts of many more successful- or popular- managers

― diafiyhm (darraghmac), Monday, 30 April 2012 11:07 (1 year ago) Permalink

I was waiting for the comparison to Clough. I must have slept through Harry winning the European Cup and League Championship.

― pandemic, Monday, 30 April 2012 11:07 (1 year ago) Permalink

yep

I do like the idea of RH clearing out dead wood and older ego players
and replacing with hungry young ones, planning for next few years
can almost imagine this working

though it probably won't happen

― the pinefox, Monday, 30 April 2012 11:12 (1 year ago) Permalink

ehhhh, not comparing them favourably nor saying doing it with forest wasn't incredible, but neither competition the same then as now.

― diafiyhm (darraghmac), Monday, 30 April 2012 11:12 (1 year ago) Permalink

I'm never sure that that point holds up - there's only one European Champions every year after all.

― Ismael Klata, Monday, 30 April 2012 11:15 (1 year ago) Permalink

there might be a touch more to it, all i'm saying

― diafiyhm (darraghmac), Monday, 30 April 2012 11:28 (1 year ago) Permalink

fewer teams in it back then?

― the pinefox, Monday, 30 April 2012 11:28 (1 year ago) Permalink

passing it back to Shilton every 5 minutes

― the pinefox, Monday, 30 April 2012 11:29 (1 year ago) Permalink

have been surprised to learn how 70s Clough was maybe quite defensive and pragmatic
I think my vision of his teams was distorted by the 1986-1991 sort of era, youth development Forest, flowing attacking play

― the pinefox, Monday, 30 April 2012 11:30 (1 year ago) Permalink

I remember attending a preseason game immediately after the backpass rule had been introduced (it came into force July 1st or thereabouts, don't remember the year). A defender played a backpass under pressure from the striker, who immediately began shouting 'No backpass! No backpass!', but the keeper picked it up anyway. The whole crowd was just laughing at the guy, and the ref never gave anything.

― Ismael Klata, Monday, 30 April 2012 11:36 (1 year ago) Permalink

I wish more backpasses were given

― Number None, Monday, 30 April 2012 11:37 (1 year ago) Permalink

can still see it at ucd on wednesday nights tbh

― diafiyhm (darraghmac), Monday, 30 April 2012 11:38 (1 year ago) Permalink

arry vs woy is like keegan vs taylor p much. both would appear to be deeply flawed appointments.

woy (for all his waterstones loyalty cards) is no tactical rocket scientist - he's a strict and methodical martinet who drills line and shape into his teams, and tediously so by all accounts. now you can bemoan the state of the over-entitled english celebrity game all you like but no major international side has been crafted in this fashion probably since idk wartime or whatever. this is not something that's specific to england (even though it may well seem at its worst here), every country has to deal with it. woy is a meat stew hotpot cook being asked to whip up a quick something imo. and despite his erudition he is far more likely to be stubborn, grudgeful and obtuse in the face of resistance or the inevitable criticism that will arise than he is to think on his feet and find a way to transmit what it is that he wants quickly.

is arry's tubthumping lassitude any better, well probably not. it's just two different ways to get embarrassed at the quarter finals. but - and this is a huge but - if the fa are serious about giving woy a 5 year contract with the remit to oversee youth team integration and all sorts then that strieks me as a possibly catastrophic because at a crucial time in development i don't see anything in his cv to either justify that or to suggest there's anything in his methods that would be desirable as part of english football's framework.

― r|t|c, Monday, 30 April 2012 12:13 (1 year ago) Permalink

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/apr/30/harry-redknapp-roy-hodgson-england?intcmp=239

decent from HR

― the pinefox, Monday, 30 April 2012 12:14 (1 year ago) Permalink

getting to a QF would be a return to the bronze days of yore

― the pinefox, Monday, 30 April 2012 12:15 (1 year ago) Permalink

I thought it was Brooking and Southgate with responsibility for youth development? Which would be preferable to giving it to Woy for the reasons about, and Southgate at least appears to know what he's talking about.

― Homosexual Satan Wasp (Matt DC), Monday, 30 April 2012 12:23 (1 year ago) Permalink

Maybe England have decided that they have 40 years of evidence that England are in actuality Greece and want a manager to drill them in that manner to victory.

― pandemic, Monday, 30 April 2012 12:23 (1 year ago) Permalink

right yeah rehhagel was the first person i thought of too. is anyone going to claim he could have done with germany (or whoever) what he did with greece?

― r|t|c, Monday, 30 April 2012 12:29 (1 year ago) Permalink

No, you're right, 'big' nations probably wouldn't have wanted it or if they did knew that players/fans/press wouldn't have accepted it.

― pandemic, Monday, 30 April 2012 12:37 (1 year ago) Permalink

Germany seem to have made a better fist of integrating their creative players into a cohesive team unit than any England manager post-Ramsey tho.

― like Joe Pasquale and Gandhi (Noodle Vague), Monday, 30 April 2012 12:39 (1 year ago) Permalink

so okay they're not Greece but usually they appear to have tactics, organisation, all that good stuff.

― like Joe Pasquale and Gandhi (Noodle Vague), Monday, 30 April 2012 12:40 (1 year ago) Permalink

isn't a truth about England team that they have done poorly of late whoever has been in charge - at least since Sven went off the boil, c.2002 or 2004 say?

Capello is a major manager but produced mediocrity. McClaren produced mediocrity.

Hodgson might produce mediocrity but I don't see it as esp likely to be worse than the above, and I doubt that anyone would do much better except maybe Redknapp would attack more.

Would have been good idea maybe to send them out without a manager - but then, maybe EBJT would just run it.

― the pinefox, Monday, 30 April 2012 12:41 (1 year ago) Permalink

I'll be interested to see them this summer 'cos they've now got a lot of v good players who play in the same position. I guess Cf is a straight fight btw Klose and Gomez, but the attacking players behind that could be any 3 of Ozil, Gotze, Kroos, Reus, Podolski, Schurrle. I can't see them making the classic England mistake of "they're the best players so fit 'em in somewhere"
xp

― pandemic, Monday, 30 April 2012 12:45 (1 year ago) Permalink

xxp ya i guess this is more like a lone rehhagel with no organization behind him managing a squad made up purely of effenberg and mattheus clones without the talent

― r|t|c, Monday, 30 April 2012 12:49 (1 year ago) Permalink

everything fails with england, woy's cheap and he wanted it.

― diafiyhm (darraghmac), Monday, 30 April 2012 12:59 (1 year ago) Permalink

is cheapness that decisive for the organisation that's just employed Fab and Sven?

― like Joe Pasquale and Gandhi (Noodle Vague), Monday, 30 April 2012 13:05 (1 year ago) Permalink

also what on earth have you got against Graham Turner?

― like Joe Pasquale and Gandhi (Noodle Vague), Monday, 30 April 2012 13:05 (1 year ago) Permalink

a squad made up purely of effenberg and mattheus clones without the talent

this is beautiful

― pandemic, Monday, 30 April 2012 13:06 (1 year ago) Permalink

think I'm sort of agreeing with D-Mac, ie: as whoever does it is not going to succeed, might as well not throw extra tons of cash and hype at it

I am more optimistic than some about RH on the youth-coaching-set-up sort of front - think he could be really good for this, engaged, committed, etc

― the pinefox, Monday, 30 April 2012 13:07 (1 year ago) Permalink

xposts. hodgson said something about how he was going to tap into dalglish's knowledge etc, unlike when benitez was here and he wasn't allowed to step foot into melwood. rafa actually brought kenny back to the club. he wanted him to have an ambassadorial role, but purslow shunted him off to the academy. hodsgon obv got his info from christian purslow, but he should've either kept his mouth shut or got his facts right before spouting shite like that.

r|t|c otm re. hodgson and youth development. i said a while ago that a selection panel of southgate, brooking and, fucking hell, i dunno, lee dixon would be my choice (if it had to be all english). i actually think hodgson will do alright. he'll lower expectations, win a few games, charm the press with some long words, and put the focus on youth development (rightly so). just what this country's youth develoment will look like if hodgson gets his claws into it i don't know.

― Chris, Monday, 30 April 2012 13:08 (1 year ago) Permalink

is cheapness that decisive for the organisation that's just employed Fab and Sven?

― like Joe Pasquale and Gandhi (Noodle Vague), Monday, 30 April 2012 14:05 (4 minutes ago) Bookmark

Was just pondering this last night. Maybe the coffers actually are running a bit low after those two

― Number None, Monday, 30 April 2012 13:11 (1 year ago) Permalink

selection panel -- return to pre-Winterbottom mode

― the pinefox, Monday, 30 April 2012 13:12 (1 year ago) Permalink

Accusing McClaren of producing mediocrity is being harsh on mediocrity.

The way the FA have governed, or failed to govern, the game over the past 20 years or so means that it doesn't actually make the blindest bit of difference who's in charge of youth development. Well, actually it does, it's the clubs and not anyone at the FA.

― Homosexual Satan Wasp (Matt DC), Monday, 30 April 2012 13:12 (1 year ago) Permalink

the papers are saying Park is gonna play tonight btw :(

― Number None, Monday, 30 April 2012 13:13 (1 year ago) Permalink

Fergie doesn't play for draws

― like Joe Pasquale and Gandhi (Noodle Vague), Monday, 30 April 2012 13:14 (1 year ago) Permalink

Park always plays in massive games at the business end of the season. He does fuck all for a season and then suddenly Fergie wheels him out and he usually scores at least a couple of vital goals.

― Homosexual Satan Wasp (Matt DC), Monday, 30 April 2012 13:16 (1 year ago) Permalink

i can't think of a single time in his career where woy put his faith in kids over experienced pros. even kenny had the nous to blood kelly/spearing/flanagan rather than persist with poulsen and konchesky.

oh wait, he did sign kevin davies for £7m that time.

― r|t|c, Monday, 30 April 2012 13:16 (1 year ago) Permalink

Has Owen made the bench?

― pandemic, Monday, 30 April 2012 13:16 (1 year ago) Permalink

I know he's done it before but he's probably been Utd's worst player this season

― Number None, Monday, 30 April 2012 13:17 (1 year ago) Permalink

nothing on his twitter pandemic

― Number None, Monday, 30 April 2012 13:18 (1 year ago) Permalink

oh balls, somehow managed to forget all about mega monday. or the fact that the premiership exists.

i still can't really laugh about yesterday but you gotta admit that win or lose, qpr manage to embrace the grotesque like no other. that was like watching the ss storm an orphanage.

― r|t|c, Monday, 30 April 2012 13:20 (1 year ago) Permalink

number none gets it- cost becomes the defining factor when there is simply no difference in results regardless.

I don't think anyone expects return to non-qualification under hodgson, and if capello could do no more than squeeze another game out of them at an actual tournament, then why on earth pay another 4/5m per annum just to give the tabloids another stick to beat you with come final whistle of the first knockout round?

English, cheap, safe hands, should get you to the finals. Compares favourably with Capello, imo (using a tabloid/ingerland fan/accountant's eye)

― diafiyhm (darraghmac), Monday, 30 April 2012 13:20 (1 year ago) Permalink

another thing I have not seen said:

if there is any truth that England speculation has damaged Spurs' form, then we should logically expect a post-Hodgson bounce in our last 3 games

with the players' NEW CERTAINTY about HR being there next season - their minds no longer confounded by doubt and future confusion.

― the pinefox, Monday, 30 April 2012 13:32 (1 year ago) Permalink

xp even that depends on how long his contract is tho, sack him after two years of a five year contract and it's still gonna cost ya

let alone of course the classic english nonsense of having the man first in line for the chop having the greatest say over legacy

― r|t|c, Monday, 30 April 2012 13:35 (1 year ago) Permalink

xp

don't think it was the players confounded by doubt tbh

― like Joe Pasquale and Gandhi (Noodle Vague), Monday, 30 April 2012 13:35 (1 year ago) Permalink