rolling european politics thread 2011

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cause we don't really have a place for it

germany, ireland, portugal, greece..... have at it

40% chill and 100% negative (Tracer Hand), Thursday, 16 June 2011 09:34 (3 years ago) Permalink

also cause i wanted a place for someone to explain this to me:

la gauche is freaking out that they might end up with the same problem in the elections as about a decade ago, when the left split the vote so much that the runoff was le pen vs chirac

i'd a thought marine would split the RIGHT vote instead, non?

40% chill and 100% negative (Tracer Hand), Thursday, 16 June 2011 09:36 (3 years ago) Permalink

i have to say the telegraph's coverage of europe is kind of amazing. the first FOUR stories on its euro news page are about isabelle adjani.

anyway, this is happening:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jun/15/greece-europe-outraged-protests

40% chill and 100% negative (Tracer Hand), Thursday, 16 June 2011 09:56 (3 years ago) Permalink

la gauche is freaking out that they might end up with the same problem in the elections as about a decade ago, when the left split the vote so much that the runoff was le pen vs chirac

2002 was ridiculous, there were about 10 candidates on the left and Jospin just missed out on the second round:

Jacques Chirac Rally for the Republic (Rassemblement pour la République) 5,665,855 19.88%
Jean-Marie Le Pen National Front (Front national) 4,804,713 16.86%
Lionel Jospin Socialist Party (Parti socialiste) 4,610,113 16.18%
François Bayrou Union for French Democracy (Union pour la démocratie française) 1,949,170 6.84%
Arlette Laguiller Workers' Struggle (Lutte ouvrière) 1,630,045 5.72%
Jean-Pierre Chevènement Citizens' Movement (Mouvement des citoyens) 1,518,528 5.33%
Noël Mamère The Greens (Les verts) 1,495,724 5.25%
Olivier Besancenot Revolutionary Communist League (Ligue communiste révolutionnaire) 1,210,562 4.25%
Jean Saint-Josse Hunting, Fishing, Nature, Traditions (Chasse, pêche, nature, traditions) 1,204,689 4.23%
Alain Madelin Liberal Democracy (Démocratie libérale) 1,113,484 3.91%
Robert Hue French Communist Party (Parti communiste français) 960,480 3.37%
Bruno Mégret National Republican Movement (Mouvement national républicain) 667,026 2.34%
Christiane Taubira Left Radical Party (Parti radical de gauche) 660,447 2.32%
Corinne Lepage Citizenship, Action, Participation for the 21st Century (Citoyenneté action participation pour le XXIe siècle) 535,837 1.88%
Christine Boutin Forum of Social Republicans (Forum des républicains sociaux) 339,112 1.19%
Daniel Gluckstein Party of the Workers (Parti des travailleurs) 132,686 0.47%

In 2007 the left sorted out its act to a degree, it's not clear yet I think what's going to happen this time round but it's in the PS' interest to make a lot of noise about the danger of another Le Pen success.

i wanna be yr rhizome (seandalai), Thursday, 16 June 2011 10:38 (3 years ago) Permalink

if only they used AV for their Presidential elections.

The New Dirty Vicar, Thursday, 16 June 2011 11:36 (3 years ago) Permalink

ireland going to push for bondholders to take a portion of the hit for two of our most impressively failed financial institutions, but ecb pretty much has the final say on that, and tbh the impositions proposed are a pittance compared to overall problem

beta the drivel you know (darraghmac), Thursday, 16 June 2011 11:39 (3 years ago) Permalink

this really seems like the major fight shaping up, between countries who want investors to take a haircut and those who insist that would let loose the hounds of hell

i'd love to read an explanation of why each sides believes as it does

40% chill and 100% negative (Tracer Hand), Thursday, 16 June 2011 11:49 (3 years ago) Permalink

both positions are probably correct and pretty self evident, though.

It's very much a divide btwn 'taxpayer should cover the failings of private enterprise systems' vs 'govts ultimately responsible for regulation in their spheres', both sides being merely pinches of seasoning in a metaphorical bowl of soup representing 'fucked if i'm paying tbh'

beta the drivel you know (darraghmac), Thursday, 16 June 2011 11:57 (3 years ago) Permalink

taxpayers *shouldn't*, obv, sorry

beta the drivel you know (darraghmac), Thursday, 16 June 2011 11:58 (3 years ago) Permalink

just googling taxpayer bondholder will prob get you some decent backdrops/analysis

beta the drivel you know (darraghmac), Thursday, 16 June 2011 12:01 (3 years ago) Permalink

if both sides are correct and self-evident, then why is there a fight?

40% chill and 100% negative (Tracer Hand), Thursday, 16 June 2011 12:15 (3 years ago) Permalink

because they are diametrically opposed.

The New Dirty Vicar, Thursday, 16 June 2011 14:17 (3 years ago) Permalink

diametrically opposed, intricately interlinked, each fairly culpable, and to cap it all, working together hormoniously they still couldn't meet the burden of this collapse.

beta the drivel you know (darraghmac), Thursday, 16 June 2011 14:22 (3 years ago) Permalink

hormonally. Freudians lips.

Anyway, atm it's obvious that bondholders will have to take a fair lump of the medicine here, but in ireland's case the previous govt promised them that they wouldn't, and pretty much legally enshrined that. Which complicates things.

Eveything else is jockeying over who pays how much, and the knockon effect to things like pension funds (for instance, and to name just one major consideration) if bondholders have to take a major hit.

beta the drivel you know (darraghmac), Thursday, 16 June 2011 14:26 (3 years ago) Permalink

well germany just knuckled, no haircut for greek bondholders

40% chill and 100% negative (Tracer Hand), Saturday, 18 June 2011 11:51 (3 years ago) Permalink

I feel like this article is in some sort of code

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/jun/17/china-vital-interests-greek-crisis

40% chill and 100% negative (Tracer Hand), Saturday, 18 June 2011 12:22 (3 years ago) Permalink

here's some real analysis:

Even if Greeks could be coerced into accepting more pay cuts and state sell-offs, most are convinced, probably rightly, that more austerity will just damage the economy further. Remember, they have already been taking the medicine for the past year, since public workers took a 20% pay cut. It has not worked. Greece has missed the targets set in the current bailout due to a deep recession and the chronic revenue shortfall, and debt is still projected to hit 160% of GDP. Now they are being asked to take another dose, this time in the form of tax rises.

...

Politicians of all colours are right to be scared. And not just because violence can break out. Although petrol bombs flew last night outside the finance ministry, the protest has been largely peaceful, and ordered. No, the fear is that mass popular protest makes the whole political class, and the patronage from which they draw their authority, irrelevant. A mass demonstration outside a government building is one thing. But tens of thousands of citizens outside parliament itself sends a message of a different order.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jun/16/greece-as-petrol-bombs-fly

the last graf ties in with my general feeling of the last three or four years that is suddenly has become clear that politicians are simply no match for large vested capital interests. like, at all. on health care in the US, or in virtually every aspect of this ongoing financial crisis, politicians - and possibly "politics" in general - appear as ineffectual specks against the stern colossi of big money, whose warnings about "confidence" are taken as gospel. and meanwhile billions in government assets are privatized, turned over to holding companies and banks... in order to pay for bank bailouts.

40% chill and 100% negative (Tracer Hand), Saturday, 18 June 2011 12:30 (3 years ago) Permalink

too late for the serious protest to start now, unfortunately.

beta the drivel you know (darraghmac), Sunday, 19 June 2011 00:08 (3 years ago) Permalink

would any of you recommend an article or even book on the Greek crisis, that explains how things got to this point? I know the rough details but I'm interested in particular in the domestic policies that landed them in such debt.

Euler, Sunday, 19 June 2011 10:58 (3 years ago) Permalink

there was the michael lewis vanity fair piece from last yr

nakhchivan, Sunday, 19 June 2011 12:11 (3 years ago) Permalink

Pretty much every article I read about Europe begins with "Amid a sense of panic and deepening gloom..."

40% chill and 100% negative (Tracer Hand), Sunday, 19 June 2011 22:26 (3 years ago) Permalink

why d'you think the v for vendetta thread's been so busy

beta the drivel you know (darraghmac), Sunday, 19 June 2011 22:28 (3 years ago) Permalink

You guys who were looking for a good article about the background to what's happening in Greece, there's a whole movie about it, streaming -

Debtocracy:

http://www.debtocracy.gr/indexen.html

40% chill and 100% negative (Tracer Hand), Sunday, 19 June 2011 22:43 (3 years ago) Permalink

^ really good, by the way

40% chill and 100% negative (Tracer Hand), Monday, 20 June 2011 08:01 (3 years ago) Permalink

huh thanks! The Lewis article was a good read (thanks!), & I'd like to learn more about this. He diagnoses the heart of the problem as the Greek decision to treat their government as an ATM, which membership in the Eurozone meant was flush. That accords with what I've been reading elsewhere, though that accordance makes me suspicious.

Euler, Monday, 20 June 2011 08:11 (3 years ago) Permalink

I think the other prong of the problem was a completely ineffective tax collection system, meaning only the "little people" paid taxes; I've read estimates that for decades govt tax revenues were some 35% lower than they should have been, which, you know, a billion here, and billion there pretty soon you're talking about real money

40% chill and 100% negative (Tracer Hand), Monday, 20 June 2011 09:31 (3 years ago) Permalink

Tax is crucial. 30% - 35% being 'off the books' seems a reasonable estimate. Italy, Spain and Portugal have the same problem, to a slightly lesser extent.

The context for all those countries is pretty interesting. Greece, Spain and Portugal have all had relatively recent experience of military dictatorship. It's hypothesised that the culture of more-or-less trusting your government to handle tax revenue properly hasn't really had time to take root and that people still see their primary responsibility as being towards ensuring their family is secure, rather than to some wider idea of society. I don't know how much truth there is in that, though.

модный хипстер (ShariVari), Monday, 20 June 2011 09:48 (3 years ago) Permalink

Right---the tax issue & the issue of personal enrichment from government largesse are connected in the question of what the idea of society is in these places. I know a bit about Spain but not much about Greece. In Spain's case these issues go back a lot further than Franco.

Euler, Monday, 20 June 2011 10:08 (3 years ago) Permalink

Are the Greek protesters against bailouts, or do they just want a bailout with more generuos terms?

The New Dirty Vicar, Monday, 20 June 2011 12:29 (3 years ago) Permalink

generous.

The New Dirty Vicar, Monday, 20 June 2011 12:29 (3 years ago) Permalink

Greek protests are basically against austerity measures, as in :"We won't pay for your failed banks". Which, unfortunately, is only partially true since Greece, just like Italy and other countries, lived well over its possibilities for too many years.

Marco Damiani, Monday, 20 June 2011 14:09 (3 years ago) Permalink

There is a slight air of "we want free money" to protests against austerity measures.

I speak as someone slightly affected by austerity measures.

The New Dirty Vicar, Monday, 20 June 2011 15:36 (3 years ago) Permalink

I think a placard appeared during the recent indignados' demonstrations in Spain somehow summarize a certain attitude in these protests: "No work, no home, no girlfriend".
I guess in Europe there is this growing feeling of resentment and disaffection for politics, while waiting for it to solve every problem. It may be justified, but its expression is hardly proactive.

Marco Damiani, Monday, 20 June 2011 16:02 (3 years ago) Permalink

there's a growing feeling of resentment for politics as a tool of business, wholly defined and encompassed by that role, i think.

beta the drivel you know (darraghmac), Monday, 20 June 2011 19:34 (3 years ago) Permalink

Which, unfortunately, is only partially true since Greece, just like Italy and other countries, lived well over its possibilities for too many years.

When you say this you need to identify what you mean by "Greece". There are many thousands, probably millions, of Greeks who, throughout the credit boom of the post-70s era weren't "partying" or living above their means. They were just muddling through, like most of us do. There was no boom for them, particularly, other than that jobs were available. And now they're either fired or having their wages cut by a 20% or more. 50,000 Greek businesses went bankrupt last year, industrial production fell 20% and will drop another 12% this year. Is that a result of Greek "culture"? Honestly a lot of this stuff about the "culture" of Greece or Spain or Portugal (or whoever is next for the chopping block) just sounds like bogus racism ginned up to help us all feel better about what's happening to them. I'm sure there are specific kinds of corruption and rule-skirting for each of these countries, but plain old Greek citizens don't "have it coming" to them. Not like this.

40% chill and 100% negative (Tracer Hand), Monday, 20 June 2011 19:53 (3 years ago) Permalink

when did we stop being included in this btw?

There was no boom for them, particularly, other than that jobs were available.

offset that against the rising cost of property in most of these countries (for instance, over here the property boom inflated house prices to absorb most of the second income into households that had two people working, which i think was where a lot of the rise in employment came from)

beta the drivel you know (darraghmac), Monday, 20 June 2011 20:16 (3 years ago) Permalink

"Stop being included" - you mean the UK not being on the hook for "bailing out" Greece? I don't think the UK ever was in the frame for that. Not in the Eurozone innit.

40% chill and 100% negative (Tracer Hand), Monday, 20 June 2011 20:55 (3 years ago) Permalink

"When you say this you need to identify what you mean by "Greece""

Unfortunately, a good part of the Greek troubles are older than the 2008 crisis, that just made things worse.
Enormous public debt, underdeveloped economic infrastructures, a pension system in rags, scant productivity, fake bookkeeping, endemic political corruption, a wild use of European funds and subsequent speculation all concurred in creating this catastrophic situation.
And, for the record, Italy could be next and very much for the same reasons.

I agree with you that not everyone partied (and this makes the crisis even more unjust) but certainly both countries (their governments and some of their citizens) have precise political and historical responsabilities that it is necessary to understand. Just to make a very basic example, they should have asked themselves how it was possible for hundred of thousands of people to retire after just 15 years of work without paying some kind of economic price in the future.

Marco Damiani, Tuesday, 21 June 2011 08:24 (3 years ago) Permalink

xp no, tracer, ireland

froggone itt (darraghmac), Tuesday, 21 June 2011 08:29 (3 years ago) Permalink

the last graf ties in with my general feeling of the last three or four years that is suddenly has become clear that politicians are simply no match for large vested capital interests. like, at all. on health care in the US, or in virtually every aspect of this ongoing financial crisis, politicians - and possibly "politics" in general - appear as ineffectual specks against the stern colossi of big money, whose warnings about "confidence" are taken as gospel. and meanwhile billions in government assets are privatized, turned over to holding companies and banks... in order to pay for bank bailouts.

― 40% chill and 100% negative (Tracer Hand), Saturday, June 18, 2011 1:30 PM (3 days ago) Bookmark

yup. super depressing '1931' vibe about all this.

lol j/k simmons (history mayne), Tuesday, 21 June 2011 12:47 (3 years ago) Permalink

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/06/alex-andreou-democracy-vs-mythology-–-the-battle-in-syntagma-square.html

^

40% chill and 100% negative (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 22 June 2011 00:23 (3 years ago) Permalink

i guess you have to c 'n' p that

40% chill and 100% negative (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 22 June 2011 00:23 (3 years ago) Permalink

That's a good post. It doesn't resolve the question I've been pondering, though. He writes:

It is vital to understand that I do not wish to excuse my compatriots of all blame. We did plenty wrong....We were teenagers with their parents’ platinum card. I did not see a pair of sunglasses not emblazoned with Diesel or Prada. I did not see a pair of flip-flops not bearing the logo of Versace or D&G. The cars around me were predominantly Mercedes and BMWs. If anyone took a holiday anywhere closer than Thailand, they kept it a secret. There was an incredible lack of common sense and no warning that this spring of wealth may not be inexhaustible. We became a nation sleepwalking toward the deep end of our newly-built, Italian-tiled swimming pool without a care that at some point our toes may not be able to touch the bottom.

That irresponsibility, however, was only a very small part of the problem. The much bigger part was the emergence of a new class of foreign business interests ruled by plutocracy, a church dominated by greed and a political dynasticism which made a candidate’s surname the only relevant consideration when voting. And while we were borrowing and spending (which is affectionately known as “growth”), they were squeezing every ounce of blood from the other end through a system of corruption so gross that it was worthy of any banana republic; so prevalent and brazen that everyone just shrugged their shoulders and accepted it or became part of it.

What does it mean that this "irresponsibility" was "only a very small part of the problem"? Is his point that even if citizens hadn't lived beyond their means, that the nation would be fucked anyway? If that's his point, then I'd like to see the evidence for that.

Euler, Wednesday, 22 June 2011 07:31 (3 years ago) Permalink

After a bit more reflection, I'm getting clearer on this. What difference does it make to Greek sovereign debt that Greek citizens borrowed a lot of money? Yes, the details are a bit tacky, but provided that those citizens paid back their loans, it doesn't affect the national bottom line at all. Indeed even if they didn't pay back those loans, it doesn't matter for national debt, unless the EU constitution requires that the nation is ultimately responsible for private debt to EU banks. (Is the latter true?) But otherwise, Greek national debt can only be explained by national spending, for which the personal habits of citizens are irrelevant except inasmuch as they were participating in national spending. Just taking out a loan for a swimming pool doesn't mean they were participating in national spending. Just getting low-interest loans doesn't necessary mean they were participating in national spending. If they received a chunk of land from the government whose value was artificially inflated, then we're talking; or obviously if they were cheating on their taxes. But I'm increasingly thinking that attempts to put the moral hazard of Greek's forthcoming default on ordinary citizens is yet another ruse by the plutocrats to do exactly what they're accusing Greek citizens of doing: of treating someone else's money as theirs.

Euler, Wednesday, 22 June 2011 08:18 (3 years ago) Permalink

i think the main thing the germans are focussing on is the size and nature of the greek public sector and its pension system, rather than personal debt

i don't believe everyone in greece had a pool and designer schmutter

lol j/k simmons (history mayne), Wednesday, 22 June 2011 08:28 (3 years ago) Permalink

good---that's not mentioned in the post to which Tracer linked, & I'm guessing that's an intentional omission. The closest that post gets is the following:

And the biggest myth of them all: Greeks are protesting because they want the bail-out but not the austerity that goes with it. This is a fundamental untruth. Greeks are protesting because they do not want the bail-out at all. They have already accepted cuts which would be unfathomable in the UK – think of what Cameron is doing and multiply it by ten. Benefits have not been paid in over six months. Basic salaries have been cut to 550 Euros (£440) a month.

But what if those benefits were too generous, given the Greek economy? What if those salaries are about right, given the Greek economy? I'm not sure that's right, but the questions of personal debt are irrelevant (this is probably obvious to European readers but in thinking about this through the filter of the American foreclosure crisis, the "personal irresponsibility" angle is hard to avoid)

Euler, Wednesday, 22 June 2011 08:39 (3 years ago) Permalink

the language is the same tho: "all in this together". Governments that have barely been representative democracies at best, and the power structures that coerce and inform those governments' policies - fundamentally not "The People" - now trying to instil an almighty sense of guilt in the people they've misrepresented, cheated and conned. And I feel like The End of History is at play here too; as the differences between political parties within the European democracies have become vanishingly small so the need for parties to offer policies which appeal to the electorate has begun to disappear. Choose which brand of oppression you prefer, kinda.

j/k lacan (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 22 June 2011 08:44 (3 years ago) Permalink

Because when has the "generosity" of benefits or state medical care ever been set by the electorate?

j/k lacan (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 22 June 2011 08:46 (3 years ago) Permalink

right, NV: though who's the intended audience for these accusations of guilt? The Germans? The Greeks?

in the USA these issues are clearest to me in the financing of sports stadia: a city wants to build a new stadium to keep or attract a team, so they give tax breaks, financing deals, free land, etc., to businesses to develop these stadia, & put this all on the government tab. Occasionally the electorate is given a voice: you can vote for/against a sales tax hike to pay for this, or a hike in rental car & hotel taxes. But it's rarely this direct, & often just put into city/state debt. & you could vote against these jokers but everyone plays the same game so what's it matter?

Euler, Wednesday, 22 June 2011 08:55 (3 years ago) Permalink

yeah it's mainly professionally invested funds, right?

10/11 of a dead jesus (darraghmac), Friday, 5 August 2011 14:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

is there any overlap between professionally invested funds and "hot money"? -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_money

i was sincere in wanting to know the composition of these giant money flows

Dark Noises from the Eurozone (Tracer Hand), Friday, 5 August 2011 16:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

out of my league, really

10/11 of a dead jesus (darraghmac), Friday, 5 August 2011 16:20 (2 years ago) Permalink

my vague understanding is that hot money flows in and out of countries are on the order of hundreds of billions of dollars every day

Dark Noises from the Eurozone (Tracer Hand), Friday, 5 August 2011 16:29 (2 years ago) Permalink

2 months pass...

Guys are we seriously not talking about this right now? If we are, I can't find the thread...

Matt DC, Thursday, 3 November 2011 13:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

we are not afaik

Maybe there's an 'occupy athens' thread i'm missing tho

blind pele (darraghmac), Thursday, 3 November 2011 13:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

is there a good outline of all the possible scenarios atp w/r/t greece staying/leaving in the eurozone?

max, Thursday, 3 November 2011 14:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

scorchedearth.jpg

blind pele (darraghmac), Thursday, 3 November 2011 14:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

kinda want greece to peace out of the 'zone b/c fuck germany

max, Thursday, 3 November 2011 14:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

otm

Kinda want ireland to have a referendum on the debt issue

blind pele (darraghmac), Thursday, 3 November 2011 14:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

we paid $1bn in matured unsecured bonds in a failed bank yesterday, for instance

Don't think i'd have voted for that

blind pele (darraghmac), Thursday, 3 November 2011 14:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

kinda want greece to peace out of the 'zone b/c fuck germany

― max, Thursday, 3 November 2011 15:11 (39 minutes ago) Bookmark

How so?

Y Kant Lou Reed (Le Bateau Ivre), Thursday, 3 November 2011 14:52 (2 years ago) Permalink

Ha ha, Frum thinks germany's the villain

Muammar for the road (Michael White), Thursday, 3 November 2011 14:59 (2 years ago) Permalink

my default poition is that anyone pushing for bank debt to be pushed into public balance sheets is the villain, tbh

blind pele (darraghmac), Thursday, 3 November 2011 15:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

www.economist.com/node/21533445

Brief article about what a good little country we are

blind pele (darraghmac), Thursday, 3 November 2011 15:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

*Tousles hair, hands over an apple*

Matt DC, Thursday, 3 November 2011 15:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah, something like that.

We're essentially trying to use deflation as a accelerant of growth. With exports at c.70% of gdp we'd better fuckin hope nobody else joins in.

blind pele (darraghmac), Thursday, 3 November 2011 15:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

Kinda want ireland to have a referendum on the debt issue

it is not really an issue readily reducible to a referendum question. Referendums by their nature tend to be fairly simple X or Y questions (more usually X or Not X, in Ireland's case), while running a country is a more complex business involving a large number of choices that cannot really be reduced to "pay the debt or not pay the debt".

The New Dirty Vicar, Thursday, 3 November 2011 17:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

Shit just real, etc.
Financial crisis forces Berlusconi to delay release of latest love song CD

Ned Trifle X, Thursday, 3 November 2011 18:18 (2 years ago) Permalink

xp depends on what you're labelling as 'debt' dv

blind pele (darraghmac), Thursday, 3 November 2011 19:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

bye bye berlusconi!

max, Saturday, 12 November 2011 21:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

2 months pass...

Could use a mod edit to include 2012...or a new thread, whatever.

bye bye Greece? junior partner in the coalition saying he can't vote for more pain, govt could fall this w/e?

At the moment the vote wouldn't collapse, but seeing a lot of postponed meetings etc. Main thing is the Greek coalition still needs to find ~ 300m Euros worth of savings meaning even deeper austerity.

Wdn't surprise if this flirtation with technocracy turned into autocracy quite quickly.

xyzzzz__, Friday, 10 February 2012 13:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

i think france is like, can we please do this after the election?

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Friday, 10 February 2012 13:37 (2 years ago) Permalink

it's funny how the rhine has pretty much held onto its status as the fulcrum of european power

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Friday, 10 February 2012 13:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

Hollande might have his work done for him by the election. Greece could leave next month, leading to contagion...

xyzzzz__, Friday, 10 February 2012 13:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

Athens is burning tonight, parliament is about to vote about the reform plans.

Flag post? I hardly knew her! (Le Bateau Ivre), Sunday, 12 February 2012 22:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17081933

^report on Greek collapse

xyzzzz__, Sunday, 19 February 2012 22:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

2 weeks pass...

http://www.imf.org/external/np/adm/rec/policy/pension.htm#1

"Lifetime pensions are payable starting at age 50 with a minimum of three years of service."

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 7 March 2012 09:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

2 months pass...

So, Greece then. Can the left put together a government?

2.30pm: Here's a breakdown of Alexis Tsipras's conditions for forming a new government with either of the two 'mainstream' Greek parties (via Ekathimerini)

1) The immediate cancellation of all impending measures that will impoverish Greeks further, such as cuts to pensions and salaries.

2) The immediate cancellation of all impending measures that undermine fundamental workers' rights, such as the abolition of collective labor agreements.

3) The immediate abolition of a law granting MPs immunity from prosecution, reform of the electoral law and a general overhaul of the political system. According to Keep Talking Greece, that would include abolishing the 50-seat bonus for the party which wins the most seats.

4) An investigation into Greek banks, and the immediate publication of the audit performed on the Greek banking sector by BlackRock.

5) The setting up of an international auditing committee to investigate the causes of Greece's public deficit, with a moratorium on all debt servicing until the findings of the audit are published.

That adds up to a resounding rejection of Greece's current financial programme.

NSFW Australia (seandalai), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 14:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

I can't see how they don't default and leave the Eurozone.

L'ennui, cette maladie de tous les (Michael White), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 14:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

8 months pass...

FTT introduced across 16 states. Landmark?

standard disclaimer applies (darraghmac), Tuesday, 22 January 2013 15:16 (1 year ago) Permalink

Wow!

Canaille help you (Michael White), Tuesday, 22 January 2013 16:28 (1 year ago) Permalink

osborne's always say the UK would do it "if everyone else would".... time to put your money where your mouth is george

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 22 January 2013 16:33 (1 year ago) Permalink

Irony of ironies, ireland opt out ffs

I imagine our position as tax refuge of the eu had a bearing on that call, but i mean

standard disclaimer applies (darraghmac), Tuesday, 22 January 2013 16:44 (1 year ago) Permalink

7 months pass...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/can-irelands-celtic-tiger-roar-again/2013/08/16/1462304c-0460-11e3-a07f-49ddc7417125_story_1.html

this is a fairly simplistic and boneheaded piece, typically broad in its strokes and (idk enough about the washington post but) typical enough in the international (read: US) outlook i've read on the irish crash/economy/recovery.

whitewashes bank bailout, or at least pooh-poohs the criticisms of it (tbf all coverage here does this also)

lionizes entrepreneurial activity/bemoans taxation on would-be millionaires while decrying public sectors and welfare/health spends

oversimplifies the boom/bust cycle and social trends such as educated youth/emigration vs mammy-reared irish simpleton forelock-tugging trad irish workers.

tbh, idk, i learned more about teh washington post than i did about the current position of the irish economy, the causes of the crash or the prospects for recovery

otm re: capital tied up in construction and bad debt tho- but i coulda told you that. if my dog could bark in english he'd a told you that (he's a gailgeoir, thanks for asking)

"Asshole Lost in Coughdrop": THAT'S a story (darraghmac), Monday, 26 August 2013 16:17 (10 months ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=734568

is it time to start saving for a deposit yet? wanna get on the boom good and early this time ffs

unblog your plug (darraghmac), Tuesday, 15 October 2013 13:47 (9 months ago) Permalink

idk

i know one of the people who runs those auctions

Nilmar Honorato da Silva, Tuesday, 15 October 2013 13:49 (9 months ago) Permalink

can

u

hook

me

up

srsly

unblog your plug (darraghmac), Tuesday, 15 October 2013 13:51 (9 months ago) Permalink

you want to live in galway?

Nilmar Honorato da Silva, Tuesday, 15 October 2013 13:53 (9 months ago) Permalink

four bed detached in athenry is good time living imo

tell them preference is detached 3-4 bed near westport, but yeah galway (outside the city obv, along the M6 a bonus) or any of the leafier suburbs of dublin would all be acceptable

unblog your plug (darraghmac), Tuesday, 15 October 2013 13:54 (9 months ago) Permalink

also you know auctions are for cash buyers?

Nilmar Honorato da Silva, Tuesday, 15 October 2013 13:55 (9 months ago) Permalink

showing up with mortgage approved docs is acceptable iirc?

unblog your plug (darraghmac), Tuesday, 15 October 2013 13:58 (9 months ago) Permalink

yeah it says you have to complete within four weeks, i think a week or ten days is the standard practice here

Nilmar Honorato da Silva, Tuesday, 15 October 2013 13:59 (9 months ago) Permalink

this'd do too, with a bit of work http://www.allsopspace.ie/auction/lot/4777

unblog your plug (darraghmac), Tuesday, 15 October 2013 14:00 (9 months ago) Permalink

assuming you could get a survey and approval (not the easiest with some decrepit if picturesque old house) then that's probably a couple grand at least before some spiv outbids you

Nilmar Honorato da Silva, Tuesday, 15 October 2013 14:03 (9 months ago) Permalink

unless things are radically different in ireland now, these things are mostly for developers and chancers, the proportion of homebuyers at auctions is small

Nilmar Honorato da Silva, Tuesday, 15 October 2013 14:04 (9 months ago) Permalink

ilx fundraising effort to cover purchase, refurbishment, guaranteed lodging for worldfap 2017 and two weeks a year for life to any poster contributing more than idk 5k

unblog your plug (darraghmac), Tuesday, 15 October 2013 14:06 (9 months ago) Permalink

xp

idk

with the coming (expected) increase in repossessions after personal insolvency legislation changes, and given that these auctions enjoy a very high profile, idk

could become a thing for a few years amongst homebuyers, once-off investors, what-have-you. rent vs the type of mortgage outlay required for these makes in inevitable i think.

probably as straight a normalisation method as any maybe.

unblog your plug (darraghmac), Tuesday, 15 October 2013 14:09 (9 months ago) Permalink

http://www.allsopspace.ie/auction/lot/4930

that rent would cover a good two bedroom flat in an inner london suburb, no wonder the rentiers are fleeing at those yields

Nilmar Honorato da Silva, Tuesday, 15 October 2013 14:09 (9 months ago) Permalink

straffan v much stockbroker belt equivalent tbf

unblog your plug (darraghmac), Tuesday, 15 October 2013 14:10 (9 months ago) Permalink


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