Pretend you have a ballot for the 2012 edition of Sight & Sound's top 10 movies of all time list

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So why did you dock it half a star?

polyphonic, Wednesday, 2 May 2012 17:48 (1 year ago) Permalink

Actually, I think that would be the movie I'm most equipped to defend on my list next to Chainsaw. Selling Narcissus would be a tougher sell. I suppose if it would make more people comfortable, swap that one out in your mind for Cocteau or something.

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 17:49 (1 year ago) Permalink

So why did you dock it half a star?

You mistake my methodology. Every time I watch that movie, I add stars to its rating. Right now, it's sitting at something like 73 and a half stars.

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 17:50 (1 year ago) Permalink

any time i try to make a list like this it becomes somewhat biographical (ie, maybe even narcissistic) but you want to balance that with a pretense to "objectivity."

So Seven Samurai appears because I got that first Criterion DVD in college and it was one of the first japanese films I ever saw and it put me in touch with a sense of film history that i didnt have before. and it was long and in black and white and I loved it anyway. it's a touchstone for me.

on the other hand there are other movies from that era of my life that don't hold up--too much of their time perhaps, they dont speak of anything beyond that moment. that one does, so on the list it goes.

ryan, Wednesday, 2 May 2012 18:01 (1 year ago) Permalink

impossible to be "objective" and discuss personal tastes

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 18:48 (1 year ago) Permalink

Which is part of the point, otherwise just let robots pick like they did in 2002.

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 18:55 (1 year ago) Permalink

In no order:

Taxi Driver
Vertigo
2001
Sansho the Bailiff
Playtime
The Passion of Joan of Arc
The Third Man
A Brighter Summer Day
The Wizard of Oz
Andrei Rublev

Chris L, Thursday, 3 May 2012 06:36 (1 year ago) Permalink

Eric Harvey is selling some back issues:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140747591068#ht_734wt_1000

polyphonic, Thursday, 3 May 2012 18:35 (1 year ago) Permalink

some ppl are just LIST QUEENS

(prompted by yet another solicitation in my inbox)

World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 5 May 2012 00:23 (1 year ago) Permalink

I have less interest in Kurosawa's samurai shit the older I get, i.e. less embarrassment admitting they bore me. I prefer the crime dramas/noir.

Pretty much what I think as well. I can watch High And Low, Ikiru (not noir, but mod. day), Stray Dog, and even the wonky overlong scrambled-Hamlet of The Bad Sleep Well repeatedly, while the period samurai stuff is a chore.

I serve at the pleasure of Dr. Dre and a team of Sorbonne scientists. (R Baez), Saturday, 5 May 2012 00:32 (1 year ago) Permalink

I'll just get my sword.

Some days I think Ran is his best.

World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 5 May 2012 03:56 (1 year ago) Permalink

I can't remember it too well but the florid nihilism of Kagemusha seemed pretty compelling at the time. I think if I don't count Seven Samurai then Throne of Blood might be my favorite. Not as big a fan of the non-period stuff for some reason.

ryan, Saturday, 5 May 2012 04:10 (1 year ago) Permalink

High and Low and Ikiru were always my favourites of the non-period stuff. The only one I remember really disliking was Red Beard, but I think I might not have been in the mood. I've seen Seven Samurai a lot of times, and I still love it, but Ran and Throne of Blood are just as good imo.

Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Saturday, 5 May 2012 04:13 (1 year ago) Permalink

some ppl are just LIST QUEENS

So don't contribute.

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Saturday, 5 May 2012 04:21 (1 year ago) Permalink

(This solicitation was strictly in the interest of driving traffic tho.)

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Saturday, 5 May 2012 04:22 (1 year ago) Permalink

Still, that I am far more into lists than criticism should not even be a question by this point. Criticism is so, like, just make a movie already.

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Saturday, 5 May 2012 04:23 (1 year ago) Permalink

i gotta say unless they really expand the number and variety of people polled this is gonna be boring just like the last one. with the explosion of great filmmaking in asia, in particular, scarcely any asian directors--and just a handful of critics/scholars--were polled. it would be great to get all the major "festival" filmmakers from wherever, plus a good handful of more commercial filmmakers, not just from US/UK/France but from taiwan, china, hong kong, india, indonesia, germany, scandinavia, russia, africa (nigeria!), latin america, etc. i don't think the top ten will change much--that only happens glacially--but the individual lists could be somewhat or more than somewhat interesting.

anyway i guess are some peoples that i'd put on a list. maybe i can boil them down to ten later...

take the 5:10 to dreamland (bruce conner)
they were expendable (ford)
me and my gal (walsh)
les vampires (feuillade)
the navigator (keaton)
stranger than paradise (jarmusch)
the man from laramie (anthony mann)
the black stallion (ballard)
vampyr (dreyer)
fantastic mr. fox (anderson)
prénom carmen (godard)
straight time (grosbard)
snow-white (fleischer)
back to the future (zemeckis)
a scene at the sea (kitano)
on dangerous ground (nick ray)
man's castle (borzage)
gueule d'amour (grémillon)
flaming creatures (jack smith)
the exiles (kent mackenzie)
the fall of the house of usher (jean epstein)
too early too late (huillet/straub)
a canterbury tale (michael powell)
earth (dovzhenko)
dr. mabuse the gambler (fritz lang)
the best years of our lives (wyler)
two-lane blacktop (hellman)
ingmarssönerna (sjöström)
on the bowery (rogosin)
days of heaven (malick)
good morning (ozu)
rear window (hitchcock)
etc.

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Saturday, 5 May 2012 04:51 (1 year ago) Permalink

oh and

au hasard balthazar (bresson)
distant voices still lives (davies)

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Saturday, 5 May 2012 04:53 (1 year ago) Permalink

take the 5:10 to dreamland (bruce conner)

Yes! This or maybe Breakaway.

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Saturday, 5 May 2012 04:54 (1 year ago) Permalink

fine here's ten

ingmarssönerna (sjöström)

dr. mabuse the gambler (fritz lang)

vampyr (dreyer)

me and my gal (walsh)
a canterbury tale (michael powell)
they were expendable (ford)

good morning (ozu)

au hasard balthazar (bresson)

prénom carmen (godard)
back to the future (zemeckis)

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Saturday, 5 May 2012 04:55 (1 year ago) Permalink

So don't contribute.

Take it easy... As you know, I am nearly as ambivalent about criticism as lists. Need to get back to just watching things for the last time.

World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 5 May 2012 05:09 (1 year ago) Permalink

Well, I didn't say you were wrong. I am an unabashed list queen.

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Saturday, 5 May 2012 05:13 (1 year ago) Permalink

my new one:

anything but Celine and Julie Go Boating

World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 5 May 2012 14:17 (1 year ago) Permalink

That's the spirit.

Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Saturday, 5 May 2012 14:27 (1 year ago) Permalink

That reminds me of the one thing that criticism is fun for. Starting Jets vs. Sharks dance riots.

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Saturday, 5 May 2012 14:27 (1 year ago) Permalink

I don't consider Ran a samurai drama though.

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 5 May 2012 15:17 (1 year ago) Permalink

xp

World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 5 May 2012 15:17 (1 year ago) Permalink

i'm also a bit mystified by the love for celine and julie.

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Sunday, 6 May 2012 00:52 (1 year ago) Permalink

i'm not going to say it's a bad film, but it's certainly an awkward one and i find it extremely irritating. i've liked some other rivette films, though, like secret defense.

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Sunday, 6 May 2012 00:52 (1 year ago) Permalink

a superfan informed me after my first viewing that it was "a puzzle," I had no idea and was horrified.

World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 6 May 2012 01:00 (1 year ago) Permalink

Don't get the mystification around Celine and Julie go Boating as top 10 material. You can make a fairly good case. Agree there are better films by Rivette (but only a couple), however its the one which is most available.

Quite enjoying S&S series looking at an alternative top 10:

http://www.bfi.org.uk/sightandsound/feature/49831

Hour of the Furnaces would be a good one to fuck w/ppl.

xyzzzz__, Sunday, 6 May 2012 21:48 (1 year ago) Permalink

s&s essay on listology was really interesting, I thought

blossom smulch (schlump), Monday, 7 May 2012 09:46 (1 year ago) Permalink

where was that?

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 7 May 2012 09:50 (1 year ago) Permalink

a superfan informed me after my first viewing that it was "a puzzle," I had no idea and was horrified.

― World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 6 May 2012 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Also, I see what the 'superfan' said and all but its not a puzzle to be worked out and put together - but it has elements to be mulled over that hardly add up to a puzzle. To be 'horrified' is an overreaction though.

xyzzzz__, Monday, 7 May 2012 10:30 (1 year ago) Permalink

it's in the new issue, amateurist, by michael atkinson. tracks when we became interested in listmaking, & how the list ends up being more useful as a gauge of topical mood & trend than as an actual canon.

blossom smulch (schlump), Monday, 7 May 2012 10:34 (1 year ago) Permalink

My ballot would probably be something like this:

1. My Neighbor Totoro (Miyazaki, 1988)
2. Street of Shame (Mizoguchi, 1956)
3. Down by Law (Jarmusch, 1986)
4. Dr. Strangelove (Kubrick, 1964)
5. Human Resources (Cantet, 1999)
6. Stalker (Tarkovsky, 1979)
7. Rashomon (Kurosawa, 1950)
8. Farewell, My Concubine (Kaige, 1993)
9. Show Me Love (Moodysson, 1998)
10. La grande bouffe (Ferreri, 1973)

Depending on my mood, I migth switch The Philadelphia Story for number 10. The only post-1999 movies I could consider including are Songs from the Second Floor (Andersson), and Letters to Father Jaakob (Härö).

Tuomas, Monday, 7 May 2012 10:40 (1 year ago) Permalink

celine and julie is a game rather than a puzzle, and it invites you to play, too

Ward Fowler, Monday, 7 May 2012 19:05 (1 year ago) Permalink

how the list ends up being more useful as a gauge of topical mood & trend than as an actual canon.

well of course, and the top ten is only occasionally interesting (such as the many restorations/revivals of vertigo helping to propel it upward, ditto sunrise)--it's the individual ballots that are usually most intriguing.

celine & julie just struck me--the two times i sat through it--as flat-footed cinematically, and yet so impressed with itself.

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 00:53 (1 year ago) Permalink

Street of Shame (Mizoguchi, 1956)

love this film so much.

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 00:54 (1 year ago) Permalink

as my list might indicate i kind of have a slight aversion to "visionary" postwar art films. they just seem too polluted with self-conscious striving for masterpiece status to be top-rank. i'd apply that to tarkovsky, antonioni, fellini, bergman... all of whom have made films i like a lot.

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 00:55 (1 year ago) Permalink

although i do have some prewar art films: epstein, dovzhenko, etc.

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 00:56 (1 year ago) Permalink

i don't think many films that wind up in the S&S top 10 are entirely free of 'self-conscious striving for masterpiece status' -- certainly 'sunrise,' 'vertigo,' and 'kane' all have some of that going on.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 01:03 (1 year ago) Permalink

sure, i agree. it's the postwar art film's version of that striving that is more likely to turn me off.

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 01:05 (1 year ago) Permalink

although, having said that, while hitchcock was surely proud of vertigo i'm not sure his ambitions (or the taste contexts in which those ambitions could be validated in 1958) were quite the same as for antonioni et al

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 01:06 (1 year ago) Permalink

but notice that sunrise, vertigo, and kane are not on my list either!!

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 01:06 (1 year ago) Permalink

no one thinks Celiine et Julie is going to be top ten or twenty or even top 100, probably. was it brought up because Armond White wrote one of his ridiculous smackdowns of it? It's probably in my top 20 fwiw. I just really enjoy it.

jed_, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 01:09 (1 year ago) Permalink

i like 'c and j' a lot, but i think of it as kind of a three-hour remake of 'daisies' with no food fights.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 01:12 (1 year ago) Permalink

c and j vs c on t

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 01:13 (1 year ago) Permalink

nevermind old joke

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 01:13 (1 year ago) Permalink

I admittedly prefer "visionary" filmmaking on that order to be so far gone that it doesn't give off any evidence of knowing it can be any other way. Antonioni c. L'eclisse gives me that impression.

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 02:46 (1 year ago) Permalink


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