the bbc sherlock series by the dr who 'bloke' and starring tim from the office

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is there already a thread on this? its fun!

watson was in AFGHANISTAN

max, Monday, 9 August 2010 15:47 (six years ago) Permalink

as he was in the conan doyle stories

Ward Fowler, Monday, 9 August 2010 15:48 (six years ago) Permalink

though i guess watson was in AFGHANISTAN in the stories too eh

xp

max, Monday, 9 August 2010 15:48 (six years ago) Permalink

"Cumberbatch's Sherlock uses modern technology, such as texting and internet blogging, to solve the crimes"

max, Monday, 9 August 2010 15:48 (six years ago) Permalink

some talk on the bbc iplayer thred:


SHERLOCK

starring martin freeman and bernard cumberbatch

first episode has been and gone and was surprisingly... actually alright

― the tape store called... (cozen), Monday, 26 July 2010 08:20 (2 weeks ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Holmes texting and using 'tinternet seemed really natural. Also LOL at "three patch problem". Running around central Loldon with a map overlaid on the screen = DUD though. Wish it were slightly less nu-Who like, but it's a Mark Gatiss thing so inevitable.

― ninjas and lasers and gold and (snoball), Monday, 26 July 2010 09:05 (2 weeks ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Gatiss totally played the brother as Panto Mandelson.

― the phantom flâneur flinger (suzy), Monday, 26 July 2010 09:55 (2 weeks ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Wish it were slightly less nu-Who like, but it's a Mark Gatiss thing so inevitable.

You don't blame this on Moffatt at all? I really liked it.

― ailsa, Monday, 26 July 2010 16:40 (2 weeks ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

read that as new-wu and got confused and excited.

― a hoy hoy, Monday, 26 July 2010 17:42 (2 weeks ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

xp I got confused. It's a freaky Moffatt/Gatiss joint all the way...

― ninjas and lasers and gold and (snoball), Monday, 26 July 2010 17:50 (2 weeks ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

This was good. Very good. Although Martin Freeman's basically playing Martin Freeman.

Intriguingly their 221b baker street set has a near identical layout to the one in the Granada/Jeremy Brett version.

― no, you're dead right, it's a macaroon (ledge), Tuesday, 27 July 2010 11:35 (1 week ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Yeah, it's hard to imagine anyone looking at the pasty, pudgy Freeman and thinking 'hm, there's a military man, not long back from under the Afghan sun'. This was okay though. Cumberbatch great, Gatiss grates.

― Born too beguiled (DavidM), Tuesday, 27 July 2010 11:39 (1 week ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Yeah Cumberbatch was terrific and this series has fantastic potential.

Didn't think a modern Sherlock would work but they somehow pulled it off, the GPS and laptops aspect didn't feel shoehorned in but where they nailed it was getting the atmosphere. The way it was filmed really helped give a claustrophobic and menacing Victorian feel to modern London, lots of dark back alleys and very little of the visual clutter you associate with this city. They should keep the series out of gleaming office buildings and keep it in the realm of dark streets and snug old pubs IMO.

― Matt DC, Tuesday, 27 July 2010 11:44 (1 week ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Liked this a lot, and I'm a bit of a Holmes traditionalist. Only bit that felt a bit LOLmodern shoehorned was the continued references to them being in the gayXorz. Or is that an in-joke about 'Sherlock', the game for the Spectrum and C64?

― Hey Jabulani! Pope of four four two. (aldo), Tuesday, 27 July 2010 12:42 (1 week ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I thought martin freeman was really good; surprisingly so, in fact, but granted I've not seen in him in anything stand-out since the office

― cozen, Tuesday, 27 July 2010 12:45 (1 week ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

The way it was filmed really helped give a claustrophobic and menacing Victorian feel to modern London

also the way my PS3 auto screen dimming kicked in after about 30 mins and i didn't notice for another 30 :/

― no, you're dead right, it's a macaroon (ledge), Tuesday, 27 July 2010 12:47 (1 week ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Only just caught up with last week's, good stuff. I like the fact they included a puzzle without an explanation right at the end (Sherlock's comment re how to tell a good restaurant, with the answer presumably being lol Chinese people are short)

― if, Sunday, 1 August 2010 19:45 (1 week ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Am quite enjoying Sherlock, I have to say. Thought the last episode was a bit laborious, but among other things I like a lot - the configuring of London topography in a way that reminds me strongly of Machen, Stevenson (funny sort of London but still a version of it), and Conan Doyle (museums, small out-of-the-way shops, abandoned houses, dark side-streets); all the emphasis on hidden information - again a sort of reconfiguration of the London environment, whether it's mobile communication or graffiti; the way it patterns Victorian sensational fiction themes (such as the sax rohmer yellow peril stuff of the last one) on to the 21st century; + all the comic book stuff (a touch of the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen about it, again perhaps not surprisingly) and, you know, a proper fight! behind the curtain of a stage! Great!

That last one was extremely indebted (presumably deliberately) to The Talons of Weng-Chiang, not at all a bad thing imo.

I don't watch a lot of tv so maybe there's a few programmes doing interesting stuff like this, but yeah, good stuff.

― Hide the prickforks (GamalielRatsey), Tuesday, 3 August 2010 12:34 (6 days ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

thought sherlock was p.dece on the whole

― cozen, Monday, 9 August 2010 08:54 (6 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i never made the sherlock holmes / dr who connection before but so many things about holmes and watson are so VERY who, aren't they

i thought the first episode was tremendous - i love the text overlays on the screen

― progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Monday, 9 August 2010 11:11 (4 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

ledge, Monday, 9 August 2010 15:49 (six years ago) Permalink

lot of grousing on ~forums~ earlier about moriarty and his accent but I thought he was ace

cozen, Monday, 9 August 2010 15:50 (six years ago) Permalink

moriarty was p. great last night. Also really like the floating-text-message device. and the coat.
xp otm

stet, Monday, 9 August 2010 15:50 (six years ago) Permalink

moriarty was great i thought! sad that it's already over tho? didnt realise there were only going to be 3 eps

just sayin, Monday, 9 August 2010 15:54 (six years ago) Permalink

has xmas special written all over it

cozen, Monday, 9 August 2010 15:54 (six years ago) Permalink

Haven't seen the third one yet but the first two were pretty good fun, I hope they spin a few more out of them.

Matt DC, Monday, 9 August 2010 16:15 (six years ago) Permalink

woah wait, what, that's it? ffs.

stet, Monday, 9 August 2010 16:17 (six years ago) Permalink

3 eps too many imho

former moderator, please give generously (DG), Monday, 9 August 2010 16:21 (six years ago) Permalink

well each one is the length of a movie. it's basically 3 dr whos, or 6 half hours of american television (approx 20 mins each)

progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Monday, 9 August 2010 16:24 (six years ago) Permalink

er i mean 6 dr whos, and 13 half hours of american television

progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Monday, 9 August 2010 16:30 (six years ago) Permalink

is this seeable w/o cable

pies. (gbx), Monday, 9 August 2010 16:33 (six years ago) Permalink

do u know about "the internet"

max, Monday, 9 August 2010 16:36 (six years ago) Permalink

no :(

pies. (gbx), Monday, 9 August 2010 16:37 (six years ago) Permalink

I saw the first episode & all those words floating around reminded me of "Ghost Writer."

spanikopitcon (Abbott), Monday, 9 August 2010 16:42 (six years ago) Permalink

benedict cumberbatch Vs. sheldon turnipseed

conrad, Monday, 9 August 2010 17:17 (six years ago) Permalink

Totally watchable. Was disappointed with Moriarty, the end of last night's episode was a little soppy. Still good though, Cumberbatch was great in the role.

mmmm, Monday, 9 August 2010 17:57 (six years ago) Permalink

I watched this last night, I was pleasantly surprised - "reboot" of an old favourite character is usually shorthand for dreadful garbage, but this was good. It was schlocky, but kind of felt like grownup schlock, not adolescent bollocks. Cumberbatch was great.

Take my hand, we'll make it I swear (Pashmina), Monday, 9 August 2010 18:10 (six years ago) Permalink

low expectations for this, found it to be surprisingly enjoyable, although there's plenty of stuff to nitpick about. ep 2 was the weakest, I think, trying to update the 19th century version of the "exotic orient" just came off a bit too silly. and ending the last ep on a cliffhanger, with no word on when the next one will be-- irritating. but everyone above on the greatness of Cumberbatch is otm.

her breath came in short pants (sciolism), Monday, 9 August 2010 20:51 (six years ago) Permalink

How come there's only three episodes? That seems crazy.

Benedict Cumberbatch is the name of some Hogwarts reject, I still refuse to believe that that is a real name.

ô_o (Nicole), Monday, 9 August 2010 20:57 (six years ago) Permalink

conrad, Monday, 9 August 2010 21:01 (six years ago) Permalink

That might be even worse! Although it is pretty close.

ô_o (Nicole), Monday, 9 August 2010 21:02 (six years ago) Permalink

Three 1 1/2 hour films is pretty good going - wouldn't have been surprised if they'd just got to make one single episode to start with, tbh (though I think they did an hour-long unscreened pilot which became the first episode). Presume Moffatt and Gatiss a bit busy with Doctor Who stuff as well.

Also, everyone saying Ben Cucumberpatch is awesome is incredibly OTM. I've seen him in other stuff and not been wowed, but he fits this really well.

ailsa, Monday, 9 August 2010 21:06 (six years ago) Permalink

Speaking of weird and colonial, three guesses why Cumberbatch is a relatively common name amongst African-Americans. Benedict Cumberbatch is really excellent.

Won't someone respond to my point that Mark Gatiss' Mycroft is like watching Peter Mandelson in panto?

duchy of Pornwall (suzy), Monday, 9 August 2010 21:11 (six years ago) Permalink

three guesses why Cumberbatch is a relatively common name amongst African-Americans

This reminds me of thinking that maybe ska pioneer Theophilus Beckford was related to mento singer Stanley Beckford or U-Roy aka Ewart Beckford, until it was pointed out that there was another reason why a lot of Jamaicans are called Beckford. Which was a slight bummer to my joyful contemplation of reggae history.

Think it's about time I watched this Sherlock, too.

rah rah rah wd smash the oiks (a passing spacecadet), Monday, 9 August 2010 21:26 (six years ago) Permalink

Didn't Gatiss say he'd based him on Mandelson?

ailsa, Monday, 9 August 2010 21:37 (six years ago) Permalink

I have no idea, but it is super-funny. I want to see him sitting on a big throne with a bound volume of fairy tales.

Benedict Cumberbatch has brought his family history up in interviews to basically say o_0. A few years ago I was at a book launch and was introduced to a frightfully posh young man whose surname was Womack. I hadn't realized this was an English name AT ALL until that point, and then the guy told me the singers' surname was no accident because theirs had been a slaving family.

duchy of Pornwall (suzy), Monday, 9 August 2010 21:47 (six years ago) Permalink

Just watched the third one, this kind of nonsense is 100% up my street. Not much that I didn't enjoy, there. A few months ago we re-watched all the Jonathan Creeks and this filled the void that left quite nicely. Although J-Creek wouldn't have had any woooo mysteeeerious stuff (left mysterious).

>>SPOILERS>>
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I totally called Moriarty as a bad guy the first time he appeared, then forgot.
WHY would someone faking a painting make half of it something so weird and "obviously" fake? This really confused me. Was the mistake put in there deliberately by Moriarty? But how?
>
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Not the real Village People, Tuesday, 10 August 2010 05:39 (six years ago) Permalink

Btw in the opening shot, my husband was convinced that Sherlock was actually Alan Rickman. He looks and sounds identical there!

Not the real Village People, Tuesday, 10 August 2010 06:19 (six years ago) Permalink

Only grouse so far (apart from the fact that ep.2 wasn't as good as the other 2) is I hope they don't just go for lots of murders. One of the things I enjoyed about the originals is the stories about non-lethal puzzles and oddities.

According to Zoe Ball (who, I'm sure, must know) Cumberbatch went up for Dr. Who and Matt Smith went up for Dr. Watson. Someone in casting seems to be doing the right thing anyway.

i find music confusing and annoying (Ned Trifle II), Tuesday, 10 August 2010 09:09 (six years ago) Permalink

They're already setting up Holmes marathons in the USA
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5iVaDQ26TVnBtf3h0iisgyybUFRTQ

i find music confusing and annoying (Ned Trifle II), Tuesday, 10 August 2010 09:10 (six years ago) Permalink

Matt Smith read for Watson and was judged too manic, but when BC was approached to try for Doctor Who, he didn't want to do it because of the merchandising nightmare. This information is available to anyone who reads a newspaper.

duchy of Pornwall (suzy), Tuesday, 10 August 2010 09:28 (six years ago) Permalink

cumberbatch would have made an impeccable doctor imo

progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 10 August 2010 09:30 (six years ago) Permalink

This was a lot of fun to watch, and I hope they make more... Cumberbatch borrows a couple of mannerisms from Brett (quick lift off the chair while sitting in it indian-style, and the quick flash of rictus type of smile) but takes a totally different, and appealing, tack with the character. I also loved the mindfuck where they show the overhead shot of him at his desk, looking like he's just shot up. As intended, it made me think "here we go again, lazy scriptwriters making Holmes use cocaine DURING a case, which he never ever does" and then it turns out to be nicotine patches! Hilarious. They got me.

the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Tuesday, 10 August 2010 09:41 (six years ago) Permalink

I had no idea his mum is Wanda Ventham. Blimey.

Michael Jones, Tuesday, 10 August 2010 09:46 (six years ago) Permalink

BC even turned up as a guest in a friend's wedding photos last week (she's from a luvvie family too). Truly this man gets everywhere.

duchy of Pornwall (suzy), Tuesday, 10 August 2010 09:50 (six years ago) Permalink

Fast forward to 7:14 for nice comic moment and Michael Winner looking like an ass.

State Attorney Foxhart Cubycheck (Billy Dods), Tuesday, 10 August 2010 09:51 (six years ago) Permalink

cumberbatch would have made an impeccable doctor imo

He would have ruined the show for me thanks to his "You have to bite it!" scene in Atonement. In Sherlock it's not as bad because I can't see him raping Martin Freeman.

ô_o (Nicole), Tuesday, 10 August 2010 11:08 (six years ago) Permalink

I'm sure ILX's slashfic aficionados know where to find exactly what you describe.

duchy of Pornwall (suzy), Tuesday, 10 August 2010 11:15 (six years ago) Permalink

I had no idea his mum is Wanda Ventham. Blimey.

Blimey indeed, I just happnened to see her in The Saint before I left the house, what a babe!

Dr. Who is a bit like Sherlock Holmes in many way.

tom d: he did what he had to do now he is dead (Tom D.), Tuesday, 10 August 2010 11:15 (six years ago) Permalink

Blimey indeed, I just happnened to see her in The Saint before I left the house, what a babe!

would objectify

unchill english bro (history mayne), Tuesday, 10 August 2010 11:18 (six years ago) Permalink

Really ejoyed this. Even Martin Freeman was suprisingly decent, but Cumberbatch was amazing in the Sherlock role. Was talking to a friend about Cumberbatch in Doctor Who and we both came to the conclusion he would make a great Master to play off Matt Smith if Steven Moffat ever goes down that route.

Mr.Prologue, Tuesday, 10 August 2010 11:35 (six years ago) Permalink

would objectify

― unchill english bro (history mayne), 35 minutes ago

^^^^^^^^Genuine laugh out loud at this popping up in blog view. Would seriously love if this caught on as a meme.

Kinda follow Penny Red's views on "oh lawd enough with the Holmes already" but, erm, I <3 Cumberbatch for his Momusian turn in To The Ends Of The Earth. I'm avoiding reading any of the slash (it's already turning up in my LJ stream) until I've seen the thing. Which at my rate of tellyviewing is, erm, never.

That is all.

all your life is channel 13, Sesame Street, what does it mean? (Masonic Boom), Tuesday, 10 August 2010 11:57 (six years ago) Permalink

I'm avoiding reading any of the slash (it's already turning up in my LJ stream)

always read this as LJ you-know-who

"It's far from 'loi' you were reared, boy" (darraghmac), Tuesday, 10 August 2010 11:58 (six years ago) Permalink

Loving it so far - Cumberbatch great, Freeman really good as well (nicely balanced between easy-to-follow everyman & the more actorly damaged army doctor, which is a nice reading of Watson), there's wit & nous in the modernising, cute nods for the fans around the place (Mycroft losing weight, Rache, plenty more I'm missing), really likes London. Perfect Sunday viewing.

And seconded on the drug-haze misdirect - so glad that it didn't just blunder into the world of EDGY Holmes cliché.

tetrahedron of space (woof), Tuesday, 10 August 2010 12:12 (six years ago) Permalink

Another vote for 'would objectify'. LULZ

duchy of Pornwall (suzy), Tuesday, 10 August 2010 14:45 (six years ago) Permalink

the fact that this stuff is on at a prime slot on a sunday and promoted as well as it was reminds me of how Sapphire and Steel used to be on twice a week on primetime itv.

koogs, Monday, 16 January 2017 22:53 (one month ago) Permalink

Remove Bookmark from this Thread

Elvis Telecom, Tuesday, 17 January 2017 03:59 (one month ago) Permalink

trying to imagine a whole country watching Sapphire and Steel at the same time, it's like an episode of Sapphire and Steel

erry red flag (f. hazel), Tuesday, 17 January 2017 06:59 (one month ago) Permalink

(11.8M viewers for S&S apparently. But there were only 3 channels at the time and no remote controls)

koogs, Tuesday, 17 January 2017 07:13 (one month ago) Permalink

Everyone's contracted for S5, so unfortunately we have further to fall

Now that Sherlock is "cured" of his misanthropy/sociopathy, there will be all the fun of him falling in love on a regular basis, I expect.

trishyb, Tuesday, 17 January 2017 13:02 (one month ago) Permalink

I think it's kinda sad that this episode was such a misstep, because the was a germ of a good idea there: that Sherlock would finally come across a case he can't solve with his wits, only by using his empathy. I even kinda liked the oh-so-blunt metaphor they used to signal this, when kid Aurus was always asking kid Sherlock, "won't you play with me?", and in the end he was literally playing (the violin) with her, DO YOU SEE? But that human-sized story was buried under all the "clever" audience misdirection, fanwankery, ridiculous plot holes, and the whole stupid attempt to out-Hannibal Hannibal Lecter. It really felt like Moffat & Gatiss forgot like they were writing Sherlock and not Dr. Who (where such stuff is more tolerable since it's science fantasy, not detective fiction).

Tuomas, Tuesday, 17 January 2017 13:15 (one month ago) Permalink

I think it's also telling that only one of the main plots this season was actually a mystery brought to Sherlock by a client, and even in that case the client turned out to be fake and tied to a larger non-detective plot. And the characters who were essential when this was still a detective/police procedural (Molly, Gregson, the other cops) have been completely sidelined, while main characters have been reduced to family members and lovers.

Tuomas, Tuesday, 17 January 2017 13:20 (one month ago) Permalink

oh my, what was that shit !??
joining the choir : that was simply horrible. For all the reasons already mentioned.
I could barely watch it. actually, at some point, like Ledge, I had to go and do something else as I couldn't stand it anymore.
Especially the sister and her silly mind games which were somewhere between kids/teenagers games and TV games.
So many things that didn't make sense in that story...
I also realized I can't stand Moriarty who's like a synthesis of the show : affected over the top emo.
I thought they hit rock bottom with ep1 of this season but this was even worse.
Is it the final ep of the season ? It seemed like it by the end but I thought there were 4ep ?

AlXTC from Paris, Tuesday, 17 January 2017 16:18 (one month ago) Permalink

It really felt like Moffat & Gatiss forgot like they were writing Sherlock and not Dr. Who

It's utter wank when they do it there too.

Mud... Jam... Failure... (aldo), Tuesday, 17 January 2017 18:48 (one month ago) Permalink

Agreed. I don't even watch Doctor Who anymore.

trishyb, Tuesday, 17 January 2017 19:45 (one month ago) Permalink

Is it the final ep of the season ? It seemed like it by the end but I thought there were 4ep ?

Yes. Thankfully only three.

And at the moment, quite possible that there'll be no more.

groovypanda, Tuesday, 17 January 2017 21:17 (one month ago) Permalink

We have yet to see Sherlock water ski.

a little too mature to be cute (Aimless), Tuesday, 17 January 2017 21:19 (one month ago) Permalink

What I meant was, if this was Dr. Who, the idea that some person can control an entire prison staff and make them do things they wouldn't want to is ok, because it's sci-fi, you can just write her to have telepathic powers. But in here, as cool as it may have seemed to Moffat & Gatiss, it's nonsensical, it break the suspension of disbelief.

Tuomas, Tuesday, 17 January 2017 21:20 (one month ago) Permalink

no its shit when writing is lazy emo wank in any genre

trilby mouth (darraghmac), Wednesday, 18 January 2017 00:08 (one month ago) Permalink

Pattern detection: basically anything with Martin Freeman seems destined to overextend itself until it's so far past being meaningful, tense or funny that you wonder WHY?!? WHY AM I WATCHING THIS?!? THIS IS AWFUL!!! I think he's part of a plot.

The beaver is not the bad guy (El Tomboto), Wednesday, 18 January 2017 02:50 (one month ago) Permalink

(note: TV Fargo (may have) avoided this fate by only using him for one season. Maybe they know what's up)

The beaver is not the bad guy (El Tomboto), Wednesday, 18 January 2017 02:54 (one month ago) Permalink

So basically, the final season is : 2 horrible episodes and 1 okay-ish...
good work !
That said, if I took the time to consider all the episodes of the series, I'm pretty sure I'd be left with something like 2-3 that I really enjoyed.
As said by others here, they were just so bad at writing good mysteries based on the original material.
All the meta and Moriarty stuff have mostly been garbage.

AlXTC from Paris, Wednesday, 18 January 2017 11:23 (one month ago) Permalink

The first episode and the Irene Adler episodes are the properly good ones, although I think the Adler one spins too wildly by the end. I like the wedding episode too, which seems a lot less indulgent by comparison after the 4th season.

Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 18 January 2017 11:29 (one month ago) Permalink

For a show that did just 13 episodes, out which only 2-3 were undivisive, people stayed remarkably engaged to the end...

Frederik B, Wednesday, 18 January 2017 11:40 (one month ago) Permalink

The Hound of the Baskervilles is on-the-line 'good' - if every episode was that level of completely generic quality then I don't think anyone would be complainings.

Along with the three Chuck mentions, I quite like His Last Vow (Mads Mikkelsen's brother) and The Abominable Bride, though the weakest bits of them are the connections to the ongoing plot.

Even The Great Game, the end of season 1, is really good, it's just what it all leads to that's the problem.

Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, 18 January 2017 12:26 (one month ago) Permalink

I think during the first two seasons, the consensus was that the middle episodes ("The Blind Banker" and "The Hounds of Baskerville") were meh, but the the other ones were great. (And I agreed with that opininion.) "The Blind Banker" has that awful orientalist/racist vibe, and "The Hounds of Baskerville" is the first one where solution to the mystery is utterly ridiculous and unrealistic. So 66% of those seasons were still great and provided some clever (but not outrageous) mysteries, that's a pretty good average.

Then season 3 started with an episode that did what it absolutely needed to do (bring Watson and Holmes together, provide an answer to the previous episode's cliffhanger that wouldn't piss off viewers) satisfactorily, but the mystery part was perfunctory and mostly just a subplot. I guess as a correction to that, the second ep for season 2 raised the detective work to a much higher level, which was fun to watch while it was on, but in retrospect this was the first episode where solutions to the mysteries had some really obvious holes in them. Episode was 3 okayish, but again slight on the mystery department. In retrospect, it kinda presaged what went wrong with season 4, i.e. the writer were more interested in creating a Hannibal-like vile villain and emphasizing his cleverness than having Sherlock do his sherlocking.

"The Abominable Bride" was the first time the show really went full-on into meta wankery and writers just attempting do clever "DO YOU SEE!?" moments instead of a coherent plot. But after that point I think a lot of viewers, me included, thought that the lates two episodes were just anomalies, and that season 4 could return the show back to being a clever detective procedural. So I was still psyched about the new season. Unfortunately it turned out "His Last Vow" and "The Abominable Bride" weren't anomalies, they actually set up the new standard.

Tuomas, Wednesday, 18 January 2017 12:53 (one month ago) Permalink

(xpost)

Tuomas, Wednesday, 18 January 2017 12:53 (one month ago) Permalink

Also, like I said above, the show really went wrong by trying to up the threat level with each season. At some point the attempt to create yet another villain who can outsmart Sherlock and who is even more clever than previous villains will just lead into something that's too ridiculous and unrealistic even for this show, and hence we got Eurus. I get the impulse of trying to wow the fans more and more, but it never ends well. I would've been much better to balance the more outrageous cases with more mundane ones, like in the Doyle stories.

It's not a coincidence that Doyle created the "evil mastermind who's just as smart as Holmes" only for what was supposed to be the last ever story, and most people agree the quality started dropping when that didn't turn out to be the finale after all.

Tuomas, Wednesday, 18 January 2017 13:01 (one month ago) Permalink

There are loads of good stories after "Final problem" - maybe not as consistent, but certainly the best ones are as good as anything in the first two books.

The novels are more like the TV show than the short stories - lots of implausible rubbish with some good bits

Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 18 January 2017 13:23 (one month ago) Permalink

The first episode where the solution had major holes in it was the first episode. The taxi drivers method made no sense... And wasn't Scandal in Belgravia almost completely a spy- and politics story? Just saying, the show changed much less than people think, imo. It was always flawed, the flaws just became much more obvious as time went by. I still liked most of it, because Moffatt is one of the best writers in the medium, who even when the big stuff falls apart puts so much great little stuff in there that it stays watchable.

Frederik B, Wednesday, 18 January 2017 14:26 (one month ago) Permalink

The taxi drivers method made no sense...

In what way?

Tuomas, Wednesday, 18 January 2017 14:44 (one month ago) Permalink

I mean, he knew he was gonna die anyway, and clearly he was very proud of the way he was able to read people, probably cultivated throughout the years he'd been a cabbie. So it makes sense he decided to murder them with a method that involved a risk of death for himself too, because he wasn't afraid of dying, and everytime he "won" he proved how superior he was.

Tuomas, Wednesday, 18 January 2017 14:47 (one month ago) Permalink

The method he used to win made no sense. Or rather, it was never explained. Probably because nothing would have made sense.

Frederik B, Wednesday, 18 January 2017 14:50 (one month ago) Permalink

I did, in fact, go see Underworld: Blood Wars and not only was Lara Pulver (Sherlock's Irene Adler) one of the main characters, the movie was better than at least one of this season's episodes of Sherlock.

mh 😏, Wednesday, 18 January 2017 14:59 (one month ago) Permalink

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mentalism

(xpost)

Tuomas, Wednesday, 18 January 2017 15:00 (one month ago) Permalink

That's kinda rubbish.

Frederik B, Wednesday, 18 January 2017 15:14 (one month ago) Permalink

Suggesting post-Final Problem is inferior is madness imo, so much good stuff there without even mentioning Baskervilles (which I'd speculate is the one thing the Man On The Clapham Omnibus could name - or could have, before the TV show); Dancing Men, for example, is probably top 5, but see also Norwood Builder, Empty House,Bruce-Partington, Second Stain, Wisteria Lodge...

Mud... Jam... Failure... (aldo), Wednesday, 18 January 2017 15:15 (one month ago) Permalink

that reminds me that, as already noticed upthread, they didn't even bother with the mystery stories by the end since a couple of times they have simply "mentioned" the cases (dancing men, for instance) in the "fastforward" moments (don't know how to qualify those !). Like "who cares about the cases that made the hero famous in the first place when we can go on and on about the wives and families" !

AlXTC from Paris, Wednesday, 18 January 2017 15:38 (one month ago) Permalink

That's kinda rubbish.

Nevertheless, real-life perfomers use these techniques to predict choices people make with fairly good accuracy, so it's not like the cabbie's method doesn't make sense, at least compared to a bad guy controlling the entire staff of a high-security psychiatric ward because she's so good at convincing people.

Tuomas, Wednesday, 18 January 2017 15:45 (one month ago) Permalink

And the weird thing is all those entertainers also learned their craft through cabbing!

Nah, it's bullshit. And not just that he gets them to choose the poison, but that he gets them to choose at all. No sign of struggle, nothing. That solution is full of holes.

Frederik B, Wednesday, 18 January 2017 15:51 (one month ago) Permalink

And I'm not comparing it to the last few, but to the second one of season three, which I suspect you were referring to when you said that was the first holed solution? That the corsets are unusually strong is a less stupid thing than that the cab-driver had learned how to be a mentalist...

Frederik B, Wednesday, 18 January 2017 15:52 (one month ago) Permalink

And not just that he gets them to choose the poison, but that he gets them to choose at all. No sign of struggle, nothing.

He was pointing a pistol at them, so if they refused to choose he'd shoot them. It makes sense that most people would choose (what looks to them like) a 50/50 chance of dying rather than almost certain death.

As the plot holes in "Sign of Three", the corset was hardly the biggest one. My complain about the episode is way upthread, but here's a direct link to it:

the bbc sherlock series by the dr who 'bloke' and starring tim from the office

Tuomas, Wednesday, 18 January 2017 16:02 (one month ago) Permalink

ahah, I've just read the Quietus article.
It's perfect.
lock thread !

AlXTC from Paris, Wednesday, 18 January 2017 16:34 (one month ago) Permalink

Re the cab driver, my Sherl-obsessed daughter tells me it was figured out on the innernettes that it was the water which was poisoned - both pills being innocuous, a dry swallow is safe but drinking it down was fatal. I have neither the interest nor the time to verify tho. Hated the fourth season front to back, embarrassing overheated fanfic.

attention vampire (MatthewK), Wednesday, 18 January 2017 21:37 (one month ago) Permalink

I don't think we ever see cabbie give anyone a glass of water? He certainly doesn't give Sherlock any.

Tuomas, Wednesday, 18 January 2017 22:29 (one month ago) Permalink

Ah my bad, sorry.

attention vampire (MatthewK), Thursday, 19 January 2017 03:21 (one month ago) Permalink

No trick, he was just riding his luck.

Nevertheless, real-life perfomers use these techniques to predict choices people make with fairly good accuracy

Hmmmm.

brekekekexit collapse collapse (ledge), Thursday, 19 January 2017 09:02 (one month ago) Permalink

Real-life mentalists can use all sort of more or less subtle tricks to make a seemingly random choice less so. Here's one crude example of such a trick, but the cabbie probably has refined better techniques to make the victim more likely to choose the poisoned pill. He supposedly only makes "one move" (pushing one of the bottles towards the victim), which is very flashy, but no doubt that flashiness works to hide the other, more subtle gestures/suggestions that he uses to make the seemingly random choice work in his favour. Of course he (like any real-life mentalist) still has a percentage of failure, but since he's about to die anyway, he's willing to take that risk.

Also, since we learn he doesn't even own a real gun but a fake one, the "one move" is very useful in pushing the victim towards accepting his game. If he were to present the two bottles equally, so that the victims would think they have an even 50/50 chance of picking the wrong one, some of them might rather take their chances in trying to fight the guy than to choose a pill, in which case they'd find out the gun isn't real, and the cabbie would be exposed. But since he makes his "one move", this makes the choice not-random, and the victims would think they can second-guess the (seemingly simple-minded) cabbie's intentions, and choose the pill he didn't want them to choose. So they're more likely to play the game, thinking they have a better than a 50% chance to win.

Tuomas, Thursday, 19 January 2017 10:01 (one month ago) Permalink

That's still pretty nonsensical...

Frederik B, Thursday, 19 January 2017 10:38 (one month ago) Permalink

xp they also use cheap (physical) magic tricks in the guise of mentalism but i suppose there's no reason the cabbie couldn't have done that too. still prefer my theory though.

brekekekexit collapse collapse (ledge), Thursday, 19 January 2017 10:39 (one month ago) Permalink

Guys, it is sherlock holmes, in one of the original stories a man was killed by a trained snake, relax, it is not hard realism

I hear from this arsehole again, he's going in the river (James Morrison), Thursday, 19 January 2017 10:43 (one month ago) Permalink

Yeah, James, that's kinda my point :) I enjoy the show, I just don't think the descent into nonsensicalness has been so steep as others do.

Frederik B, Thursday, 19 January 2017 10:48 (one month ago) Permalink

Indeed. Also, pretty obviously the writers didn't explicitly explain how the cabbie did so viewers could construct their own theories, just like they did later on when they didn't reveal the exact details of how Sherlock faked his suicide.

(xpost)

Tuomas, Thursday, 19 January 2017 10:50 (one month ago) Permalink

I don't agree: there still think there's a marked difference between the cabbie's methods and Eurus' mass hypnosis. The former can explained in a way that works within it the shows level of relative realism. The latter can't be, it breaks the suspension of disbelief in a way the cabbie doesn't.

Tuomas, Thursday, 19 January 2017 10:53 (one month ago) Permalink

From the Washington demo yesterday:

Chuck_Tatum, Sunday, 22 January 2017 21:06 (one month ago) Permalink


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