Is it time for us nerds to start anticipating THE AVENGERS, directed by Joss Whedon?

lol war hammer = war machine, getting my character names twisted

my point in other words: i know that war machine wouldn't be in the film, i just figured they would mention him in some capacity to fill the plot hole. like, there's a huge battle going on in the city he lives in, someone should at least explain him away like they did with natalie portman

strictly speaking War Machine exists in all Marvel U canon like forks said, but some characters are kinda pegged to certain comics/miniverses. they can crossover, so like green goblin is primarily a spiderman villain but also shows up in thunderbolts and then in cross title storylines when he takes over (idr shield? whatever). other characters won't really make serious appearances tho so you'd generally only see WM in Iron Man and while he might be in the background of a big crossover like World War Hulk he's not going to get a lot of facetime in an Avengers comic, and if he's played by a big actor you can see why Marvel wouldn't just throw him in. similarly none of Thor's buddies were in the flick, i didn't see the Cpt America movie but if Bucky was there he wasn't here (of course maybe he died in the Cpt America movie?), no Dr. Samson or jenny hulk etc.

tangental thoughts re film canon: kinda thought it would be awesome if like fantastic four or x-men teams showed up at the end of the movie to help, or spider-man to cross promote new movie, but it's obv much harder to arrange actor schedules than to draw a new character on the page. they def need an avengers V x-men movie at some point tho that would be sweeeet.

lol and people were talking about the death of monoculture in the worst generation thread

Do keep in mind that these comics are and have been an aspect of the monoculture for literally decades. That's why I don't have a problem with all these superhero movies; superheroes, and in particular these superheroes, have been a staple of American popular culture for about as long as we've had popular culture. I mean, tens of tens of thousands of issues, hundreds of stories, all featuring these (and many more) characters ... it's kind of amazing, if you think about it.

well new spiderman is clearly based on the Ultimates storyline

― (Name Withheld to Avoid Hassle) (forksclovetofu), Monday, May 7, 2012 1:06 PM

The last Spider-Man movie I saw was the one with Alfred Molina in it, so somebody's going to have to get me up to speed on this. What Ultimates storyline? There are a lot of Ultimates storylines.

i was really impressed with the argument among all the heroes in the ship's science lab, very screenwriterly. reminded me of the negotiation/argument scene among the tribal chiefs in lawrence of arabia (if only because i had to watch that in a film class as an example of good multi-character conflict writing.

does he hook up with kitty pryde in the new movie?

new spiderman is clearly based on the Ultimates storyline

I know he can't be in the Avengers because different studios have the rights, but it seems like the new Spiderman is too angsty and Nolan-esque to hang with the Avengers anyway.

xp well the thor thing was explained when loki asked how much of odin's power it took to get thor on earth, or something. which i thought was a really awful copout seeing as the huge "tragedy" of the thor flick was that he was gonna be stuck in asgard away from natalie portman.

and they can't cross over with F4 and spidey and x-men because they don't own the distro rights

War Machine is a member of the West Coast Avengers, and the alien invasion took place in New York. So it's, you know, a jurisdictional thing.

other characters won't really make serious appearances tho so you'd generally only see WM in Iron Man and while he might be in the background of a big crossover like World War Hulk he's not going to get a lot of facetime in an Avengers comic

war machine was an actual avengers member at various points and has been in a ton of avengers comics

One of my favorite aspects of the crossovers is the manifestation of inter-hero prejudice, for lack of a better word. That is, even among other superheroes there's a slight disdain and distrust for mutants, even though Spiderman and Hulk, to name a couple, technically have been mutated by radiation themselves. I recall in I think it's Secret Wars that conflict and distinction showing itself in their complicated relationships. But of course, Secret Wars is the ultimate intellectual property clusterfuck.

xp well yeah - i meant classic Avengers. every D-list superhero has been an avenger at this point

War Machine is a member of the West Coast Avengers, and the alien invasion took place in New York. So it's, you know, a jurisdictional thing.

spider man was in the avengers too, right?

briefly?

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110101231512/marveldatabase/images/b/b0/Bova_Ayrshire_(Earth-92131)_001.jpg

i think spider-man has been an avenger a few times

wolverine also a perennial member iirc?

WmC, here's a breakdown of Brian Michael Bendis' storyline for Ultimate Spiderman: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_Spider-Man
the promo ad before the avengers basically followed it exactly; it's a pretty serious rewrite of the origin, much more emo and daddy issues

lol, this is crazy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Avengers_members

spider man was in the avengers too, right?

― (Name Withheld to Avoid Hassle) (forksclovetofu), Monday, May 7, 2012 1:20 PM

Yeah, has been for years and still is. (The team led by Luke Cage.)

One thing in the comics though was Rhodey (aka War Machine) was actually Iron Man for a time when Tony Stark was battling alcoholism and that happened for a year or so and a few years before they started having him as War Machine in the comics.

^^^seems like the logical place for the Iron Man movies to go tbh

I still kind of think of the Bendis era Avengers, with Wolverine and Spidey and such, as some wacky experiment despite the fact that it's probably been 10 years now.

Saw this tonight, agree with a lot of stuff upthread - well balanced in backstory vs plot vs smashing stuff, snappily made for a long film, "Puny God" the best line in a film not short of great lines.

I also agree with the point about how there are a lot of well-put-together charming actors reading some well-written lines that exhibit character and move plot forwards, and then there's Mark Ruffalo, showing them how it's done. Possibly helped by the character - he really nailed the idea of a guy who's relaxed and funny and trying to make everyone he's talking to forget that he's a walking unexploded bomb - but there are by this stage hundreds of different angles for all of these characters (sadly all of the different angles for Hawkeye are massively dull - Jeremy Renner's intensity a very good choice here). But yeah, give Josh Whedon a performance like that and he'll give you a great last line as a capper.

I also really liked Scarlet Johansson in the movie, particularly the scene with Loki (featuring a word that would probably not have gotten past the censors if it wasn't as old as it was rude!). I agree that a straight up Black Widow + Hawkeye movie would be fun to watch - whether Jeremy Renner would have to make him interesting can be settled by seeing whether he feels he has to make Bourne interesting.

iirc alcoholism was going to be a big part of iron man 2 but they chickened out

you'd think RDJ would love all the nudge-nudge-wink-wink shit that storyline would offer

I also really liked Scarlet Johansson in the movie, particularly the scene with Loki (featuring a word that would probably not have gotten past the censors if it wasn't as old as it was rude!).

i was gonna mention this -- pretty funny that the dirtiest word in the thing was "quim". hiddleston ripped into it!

RE: The poster who earlier wondered whether the military had any involvement with the movie:

We couldn't reconcile the unreality of this international organization and our place in it. To whom did S.H.I.E.L.D. answer? Did we work for S.H.I.E.L.D.? We hit that roadblock and decided we couldn't do anything [with Avengers].

One of the next few posts will mention Transformers.

Whedon's decision to give Hiddleston one speech designed to give him "motivation" is a failure imo -- it's spotty writing -- but I was surprised by his well-calibrated intensity. Usually actors who go for Shakespearean fire look like Richard Burton-esque fools.

The other "I am impressed they slipped this in" moment was Tony Stark asking Banner if his methods for keeping it together included mellow jazz / bongos / a huge bag of weed.

I'm so used to Downey's MO that I laughed without noticing.

I would love to see security footage of movie audiences to identify the 5% who jerked forward suddenly because WTF Harry Dean Stanton?

.002% = wtf jerzy skolimowski?

DoD aside, the soldiers seen on the ground in the attack at the end were played by real-life Army reservists.

Baez, thanks for that.
I know dod is really involved in a lotta hollywwood these days

'these days' = 30 years at least

HEY PEOPLE WHO KNOW THAT CYCLOPS' DAD IS A SPACE PIRATE -

Was there a ref. buried in that first Fury meeting up w/ the shadowy org. who boss him around? I'm thinking a quick split-second mention of some kind of contingency plan that was gonna gonna supercede the Avengers Initiative, which then looked like it was a no-starter.

fwiw the hulk-loki moment got the most lols, but my favourite gag was when fury left the bridge and radar guy alt-tabs back into space invaders

it was GALAGA man

eh i dunno i saw it as bearla meself

that is my second irish language joke in ten mins btw

alright, i smirked

talking dogs, rly

These days and many days, battleship is basically a recruitment film

A starjammers plot would be dope.
How fractured are marvels film rights? Can spidey be in the next avengers?

If they're starting a new (hopeful) trilogy, then I doubt it. I'm guessing Fantastic Four and X-Men are all tied up as well.

Fox has Daredevil, Fantastic Four, and any and all mutants (including Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch, so don't expect to see them in any Avengers sequels). Sony has Spiderman. It seems unlikely that either studio is going to want to have any of those characters appear in any Marvel Studios pictures. Of course, if Fox doesn't get their planned reboots of Daredevil and Fantastic Four off the ground soon, those rights revert to Marvel.

As far as a contingency plan by the Joss Whedon-brand SHADOWY CONSPIRACY WITH THEIR OWN MYSTERIOUS AGENDA, I think they were referring to Phase 2, which was the whole "weaponizing the cube" thing.

This breaks down who exactly owns what

http://screenrant.com/marvel-comics-movies-characters-carl-6766/

apparently the Navy "balked" at helping with the Avengers film because they didn't want to be seen taking orders from Nick Fury.

man, this was fun. saw a late matinee in an almost completely empty theater this afternoon, and even without a peanut gallery, it was a blast. agree that it took its time ramping up (the first all-cylinders scene, imo, was fury's bridge gathering with the galaga joke), but i guess that's to be expected with such a large ensemble. after that, once things really got moving, it never let up.

a lot's been made of the comedy element, so i was a bit surprised that while it's certainly got moments, it's nowhere near as laugh-a-minute as i perhaps foolishly expected after cabin in the woods. just funny enough, i'd say.

I also agree with the point about how there are a lot of well-put-together charming actors reading some well-written lines that exhibit character and move plot forwards, and then there's Mark Ruffalo, showing them how it's done.

― Andrew Farrell, Monday, May 7, 2012 3:48 PM (5 hours ago).

all the talk about the rest of the marvel universe and "established canon" is interesting, but kind of irrelevant, imo. i would say that these movies create canon as they go and ignorate as they will. it seems pretty clear, wr2 the avengers, for instance, that there are no other known superheros in this universe. there's no west coast branch, no spiderman, no x-men, etc. at least not yet... in the x-men movies, xavier's group was international news in the 60s, and that's very clearly not the case here. so canon exist only to the extent that it's been ratified, i'd say.