Inquiry into child abuse at Catholic institutions in Ireland

An inquiry into child abuse at Catholic institutions in Ireland has found church leaders knew that sexual abuse was "endemic" in boys' institutions.

It also found physical and emotional abuse and neglect were features of institutions.

Schools were run "in a severe, regimented manner that imposed unreasonable and oppressive discipline on children and even on staff".

The nine-year inquiry investigated a 60-year period.

About 35,000 children were placed in a network of reformatories, industrial schools and workhouses up to the 1980s.

More than 2,000 told the Commission to Inquire Into Child Abuse they suffered physical and sexual abuse while there.

The leader of the Catholic Church in Ireland, Cardinal Sean Brady, said he was "profoundly sorry and deeply ashamed that children suffered in such awful ways in these institutions".

Mr Walsh said: "I would have never opened my wounds if I'd known this was going to be the end result.

"It has devastated me and will devastate most victims because there are no criminal proceedings and no accountability whatsoever."

Police were called to the Commission to Inquire Into Child Abuse's news conference in Dublin amid angry scenes as victims were prevented from attending.

The victims were among 35,000 children who were placed in a network of reformatories, industrial schools and workhouses until the early 1990s.

More than 1,000 people had told the commission they suffered physical and sexual abuse.

'Self-serving secrecy'

The five-volume study concluded that church officials encouraged ritual beatings and consistently shielded their orders' paedophiles from arrest amid a "culture of self-serving secrecy".

The commission found that sexual abuse was "endemic" in boys' institutions, and church leaders knew what was going on.

It also found physical and emotional abuse and neglect were rife in some institutions.

Schools were run "in a severe, regimented manner that imposed unreasonable and oppressive discipline on children and even on staff".

It found the Department of Education had generally dismissed or ignored complaints of child sexual abuse and dealt inadequately with them.

As far back as the 1940s, school inspectors reported broken bones and malnourished children but no action was taken.

The report proposed 21 ways the Irish government could recognise past wrongs, including building a permanent memorial, providing counselling and education to victims, and improving current child protection services.

The leader of the Catholic Church in Ireland, Cardinal Sean Brady, said he was "profoundly sorry and deeply ashamed that children suffered in such awful ways in these institutions".

"This report makes it clear that great wrong and hurt were caused to some of the most vulnerable children in our society," he said.

"It documents a shameful catalogue of cruelty: neglect, physical, sexual and emotional abuse, perpetrated against children."

The leader of the Roman Catholic Church in England and Wales, the Most Reverend Vincent Nichols, said those who perpetrated violence and abuse should be held to account, "no matter how long ago it happened".

"Every time there is a single incident of abuse in the Catholic Church, it is a scandal. I would be very worried if it wasn't a scandal... I hope these things don't happen again, but I hope they're never a matter of indifference," he said.

Victims of child abuse at Catholic institutions in the Irish Republic have expressed anger that a damning report will not bring about prosecutions.

The report, nine years in the making and covering a period of six decades, found thousands of boys and girls were terrorised by priests and nuns.

Government inspectors failed to stop beatings, rapes and humiliation.

John Walsh, of Irish Survivors of Child Abuse, said he felt "cheated and deceived" by the lack of prosecutions.

The findings will not be used for criminal prosecutions - in part because the Christian Brothers successfully sued the commission in 2004 to keep the identities of all of its members, dead or alive, unnamed in the report.

No real names, whether of victims or perpetrators, appear in the final document.

disgusting that there will be no prosecutions.

some quotes
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8060333.stm

Abuse report - at a glance

The findings will not be used for criminal prosecutions - in part because the Christian Brothers successfully sued the commission in 2004 to keep the identities of all of its members, dead or alive, unnamed in the report.

How can this be allowed?

we were poor but we were happy. the celtic tiger ruined our independent state of systematic child abuse that we fought the British to found.

jesus christ the coverage of this is just.... i didn't think i could be upset/affected/surprised by this kind of revelation after the mid 90's, but listening to the radio this morning was an ordeal.

The guy representing the victims interviewed outside the Inquiry was awesome, what a mensch

i'm not certain, but i don't think i saw anything about this on RTE last night. this country needs razing to the fuckin ground if that's the case. it was on BBC, right?

And Sky. And Channel 4. And Channel 5. Etc.

Wow if that's true that's fucked up.

i assume youre joking about it not being on RTE as it's had blanket coverage you're fed up of seeing already?

if not, what Neil said.

we were poor but we were happy. the celtic tiger ruined our independent state of systematic child abuse that we fought the British to found.

― Local Garda, Thursday, May 21, 2009 2:16 AM (8 hours ago)

sorta lol but mostly sad

Punish me, I am wicked for thinking this is perfect for a Defend the Indefensible thread

there was nothing on the 6 o clock rte evning news, i didn't see the 9 o clock news, but i'm pretty sure bbc had interviews etc for the 6.30 news so it can hardly have been a time issue?

not a whats on your ipod thread?
xp

Nah, it's too horrible for even me to squeeze any giggles out of

as the actress said to the bishop..

As the choirboy said to the bishop

as the choirboy bashed the bishop

were you ever an altar boy, tom?

What are you implying there?

I was an altar boy. Thankfully never encountered any paedos, but when you think about the scale of it prob was pretty lucky. I mean not saying every single parish had a paedophile priest in it but eg the parish next to where I grew up in Dublin did.

All this stuff is basically the biggest reason not to be patriotic and the one thing I want to say anytime Irish people do their "oh we're so fucking great..what a country" thing...

tbh, the alcoholism and self defeating negativity blamed on absloutely every other country ever, or at least the next county, is the biggest.

negativity only refers to matters outside the property market, obv

I was an altar boy, no paedos either thankfully but when we moved to prestwick in '83(and i had long stopped being an altar boy as i didnt want to do it again in another parish where things might be done deliberately), after a few years the parish got a new priest, and a few years after we moved to Hamilton in '91, the daily record had a story about how that priest had been found to have abused kids in the 1970s in Irvine. I dont know if he ever went to jail or anything as he had been shipped off to the home for paedophile priests in canada. Makes you wonder why he got moved to our parish in the first place. I bet they knew what he'd done, and just moved him 5 miles.
Makes me hate the church so much more than i already did. Though I feel sorry for the genuine priests , it must really hurt them to get tarred with the same brush. But those who covered it all up are scum and it's disgusting that they never get prosecuted.

I'm staggered that none of the people in this report wont get named or prosecuted. Those who covered it up must run right to the top of the church and government.

What are you implying there?

hah, implying nothing, was just asking if you were an altar boy (since most boys at catholic primary school in the west of scotland tend to be altar boys)

All this stuff is basically the biggest reason not to be patriotic and the one thing I want to say anytime Irish people do their "oh we're so fucking great..what a country" thing...

But you try telling Americans that...

doesnt just apply to american wannabe irish people

most boys at catholic primary school in the west of scotland tend to be altar boys

Really? There were ~200 boys in my primary school and I only remember a couple from every year ever even thinking about it.

I always thought the Christian Brothers aren't/weren't priests.

The other thing that doesn't actually bear thinking about is Africa. How many paedophile priests got shipped off as missionaries? I say that as someone whose uncle is a missionary, obviously there are good priests out there, but you can only imagine they must have packed off a load of the worst ones wherever they could, and they could prob get away with a lot more in some parts of the world.

x-post I think the Christian Brothers were priests. The other thing is as well as sexual abuse, physical punishment was rife in the schools. Even my Dad would say today some of the brothers were sadistic fuckers.

onimo, at my primary schools almost all of them were (mind you, they werent very big schools, so that might explain it). If i had grown up in Hamilton it may have been different as the catholic schools here are huge ,as it happened the place i lived in where i was an altar boy was a wee village 5 miles outside hamilton only a couple of miles from Larkhall.

My mum got a scholarship to a school run by nuns in Bothwell, and she says they were all lovely kind people. A few of them you might be a bit scared of like you would with any teacher, but on the whole they were really nice. She says it wasnt like convent schools are stereotyped as.

at my secondary school in Ayr, i'd bet less than half of the school ever went to mass. Most of us only went as our mum (in my case) or dads went.
My dad isnt a catholic and generally doesnt have much time for religions.

About 4 people in my year at school went to priests college, none of them made it to the end.

My grandfather went to a Christian Brothers place in or around Derry and told me there were a few nasty bastards there but it was all physical/corporal punishment rather than sexual abuse as far as he knew. That would have been sometime around 1915-25 I think.

I had always thought "Brother" = "Layman working for the church" - though I'm sure priests were involved in the running of the organisation and in the covering up of the abuse.

The other thing that doesn't actually bear thinking about is Africa. How many paedophile priests got shipped off as missionaries?

i hadn't even thought of that. It's just scary to think about.

x-post yeah you may be right that they weren't priests, I'm not sure actually myself. I think my Dad would have had similar experience as your Grandad, corporal punishment seems to have been common in the day schools. I suppose it was boarding schools and orphanages etc where the sexual abuse went on. The really horrible part about it is that it was almost like a ripple effect from the state having such weird religiously tainted ways of dealing with orphans/kids born out of wedlock etc etc...

My grandfather left Belfast when he was 6 months old in 1899. He died when I was 3 months old. I assume he had relatives in the south, i hate the thought of anyone going to those places.

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-60996841.html

damn you need an account to read it

The really horrible part about it is that it was almost like a ripple effect from the state having such weird religiously tainted ways of dealing with orphans/kids born out of wedlock etc etc...

― Local Garda, Thursday, 21 May 2009 15:10 (9 minutes ago) Bookmark

what was amazing to me was it wasn't just orphans and kids born out of wedlock, but if a kid just skipped school he might end up being sent to an industrial school. they were run as moneymaking scams, taking big sums from the govt and spending the minimum on care, and they had a constant appetite for new recruits. so when there were insufficient orphans, so they went around inventing reasons to take kids in.

but it's about how the bishop covered up about the priest i mentioned upthread

what was amazing to me was it wasn't just orphans and kids born out of wedlock, but if a kid just skipped school he might end up being sent to an industrial school.

Indeed, the judiciary were as culpable as the Church and various governments which, uhhhhhhh, doesn't leave much

no wonder names have been kept out of it and there's no prosecutions.

christian brothers sued for anonymity in the report

going back a few years, the church have paid 100m to the govt, in return for complete indmenity against all further compensation claims. ie- the taxpayer will pay for most of these cases.

cardinals have resigned due to the public uncovering of their lack of co-operation with legal investigations, using canon/church law as an excuse.

i'm glad i was never religious to begin with.

i can't believe more than one of yous was an altar boy! You dorks.

you weren't one?

i bet you were an altar boy at st john the baptists in uddingston but you just dont want to admit it.

i was forced to go to church until i was 13 so i went to st johns + st brides in bothwell every Sunday but i never wanted to be an altar boy and we used to make fun of the altar boys for being religious.

tbh i woulda thought the same about father moore but it was true. You really never know.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-23566192

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b037p6h2 if anyone wants to watch the program about it

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-23483307

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/features/2013/09/clergy-abuse/

This is insane.

Wehmeyer left, but circled back twice.

lolllllll

taken from broadsheet but relevant imo

Yesterday, Children’s Minister Frances Fitzgerald published the Children First Bill which will make it mandatory for professionals, including priests, to report situations where they believe children are at risk.

Further to this, retired parish priest Fr Gearoid O Donnchu spoke to Chris O’Donoghue on Newstalk and explained why he won’t break the seal of confession under any circumstance.

Mr O’Donoghue started by asking Fr O Donnchu how long he had been a priest.

Gearoid O Donnchu: “Since 1957, so 57 years.”

Chris O’Donoghue: “So I’m guessing in that time you’ve heard thousands of confessions.”

O Donnchu: “I’d say so yes, at least. Many thousands.”

O’Donoghue: “Father, in those confessions have people ever confessed a crime to you?”

O Donnchu: “That’s not a question I can answer.”

O’Donoghue: “Ok. The reason I was asking about that is because of what is envisaged in the Child First, the Child First legislation which we got a look at but we’ve known a little bit about beforehand. And it is envisaged it would be a law (sic) not to report a crime. And say if a crime is about abuse of a child or neglect of a child was told in confession. What’s your reaction?”

O Donnchu: “As far as I’m concerned what I hear in confession, I have not heard.”

O’Donoghue: “Even if that is about a crime?”

O Donnchu: “Even, no matter how bad it is.”

O’Donoghue: “But what if it’s about something that’s ongoing?”

O Donnchu: “I would advise the person that they should make it known publicly or come to me outside of confession. But anything I hear in confession, it’s as if I have not heard it.”

O’Donoghue: “Ok, but Father, do you realise why some people would be angry with that stance? Given that, potentially, people could be at risk. You could be hearing about people that are at risk?”

O’Donnchu: “Yes, but if somebody comes to confession, they come with the understanding that what they say is entirely privileged, there’s no mention of it, ever.”

O’Donoghue: “But I deduce from that though the seal of confession takes precedence over the law?”

O’Donnchu: “The seal of confession takes precedence over everything.”

O’Donoghue: “Even another person’s safety?”

O’Donnchu: “Even my own safety. If someone came and told me that they poisoned the wine I was going to use for Mass, I would still use it.”

O’Donoghue: “But Father, in the incidences of, and I don’t know, I mean, obviously, I’m not a priest so I don’t know how commonplace it is but presumably people who are doing bad things have guilty conscience and, if they are Catholic, they might try to ease that conscience by going to confession and those things could be ongoing like neglect or abuse of a child.”

O Donnchu: “That’s correct. And I think it’s the duty of the priest there to insist with the penitent to do something about the activities that we’re talking about.”

O’Donoghue: “Yes, you can insist in your advice or your counsel that, ‘you should go to the Gardaí’ or whatever that is.”

O Donnchu: “But if they don’t want to go then there’s nothing I can do about it.”

O’Donoghue: “Well there is, but you’re choosing not to?”

O Donnchu: “Oh definitely, I’m choosing not to.”

O’Donoghue: “Are you at peace with that Father, that you could be leaving people in danger?”

O Donnchu: “Completely.”

O’Donoghue: “You’re completely at peace with that?”

O Donnchu: “Completely at peace with it.”

O’Donoghue: “Some people might be livid to hear that.”

O Donnchu: “[laughs] That’s possible. When I say that I’d be completely at peace, I suppose that’s not quite a full statement. I would of course be worried, personally. But I haven’t the liberty to divulge that to a single person.”

O’Donoghue: “You would be breaking the law from now on?”

O Donnchu: “I wonder would I?”

O’Donoghue: “Well I suppose it’s more of a question, would you be breaking the law in what is envisaged here?”

O Donnchu: “I don’t know, I haven’t seen the law. But if the law says that what I hear in confession I should go to the guards with, then I’m prepared to break that.”

O’Donoghue: “Even if, at the core of the issue here, Father, is something that I genuinely believe you would believe is strongly in: protection of the child in all instance.”

O Donnchu: “Definitely, I would do everything I could to protect a child.”

O’Donoghue: “But not to break the seal…”

O Donnchu: “But not to break the seal of confession.”

O’Donoghue: “So you are keeping one thing above the protection of the child then?

O Donnchu: “I’m keeping one thing above the protection of myself, the child, the protection of anything.”

O’Donoghue: “But you see Father, in say, the analogy you gave about the wine, that’s personal choice, you’re choosing not to protect yourself in that instance. A child can’t choose, a child could be in a harmful environment and, as an adult, you now have essential information.”

O Donnchu: “In a way I don’t. The priest with whom he’s in confession has that information but that priest is not allowed to divulge that information to anybody. That’s the way, that’s the way I was educated, that’s the way I’ve lived, that’s the way I intend to continue to live, please God.”

O’Donoghue: “Father Gearoid, is there any, and I understand you won’t tell me instances of confession, but is there any working around this? I mean can you act, based on something that you have heard in confession, I don’t mean tip someone off, I don’t mean something that blunt but can you act to remove people from situations in your other duties.”

O Donnchu: “No.”

O’Donoghue: “You don’t do anything based on what you hear in confession?”

O Donnchu: “Not a thing.”

O’Donoghue: “Even if that is breaking the law from now on, that’s what you’re willing to keep doing?”

O Donnchu: “I’m not sure if it is breaking the law but if it is breaking the law, then I’m prepared to do that.”

He's following the Canon Law of his church and could/would in theory be excommunicated for breaking the Seal of Confession so I think the problem more with the higher law (in his eyes) that constrains him than that particular priest.

I'd be willing to bet good money he'd accidentally spill that wine.

Can. 983 §1. The sacramental seal is inviolable; therefore it is absolutely forbidden for a confessor to betray in any way a penitent in words or in any manner and for any reason.

Can. 1388 §1. A confessor who directly violates the sacramental seal incurs a latae sententiae excommunication reserved to the Apostolic See; one who does so only indirectly is to be punished according to the gravity of the delict.

You'd hope our all new not as scary as the last guy Pope would have a look at that.

the logic is impeccable, pedophiles can trust priests and children can't

I can't even muster for this latest. nothing that comes out surprises, just glaze over tbh. but its absolutely horrific. also: no coverage that I can recall nationally, certainly nothing like what it should be.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/04/claim-of-800-childrens-bodies-buried-at-irish-home-for-unwed-mothers

saw it yesterday, and too horrible to draw any points from tbh except maybe that if you want inhumanity at its best then you gotta organize for it

http://www.thejournal.ie/tuam-mass-grave-babies-1488267-May2014/

“People aren’t really talking about the discovery,” she said. "People don’t seem shocked, I don’t understand. If two children were discovered in an unmarked grave, the news would be everywhere. We have almost 800 here.”

sense of collective guilt re: parents' and grandparents' values maybe?

definitely.

and I'm early 30s and went through the catholic school system and even though I spent the last 6-7 years avowedly atheist it still feels, at some level, something everyone here has complicit guilt for.

which is bullshit but yet...

I was actually thinking about that story the other day and was reminded of something mentioned in the Savita coverage. Someone mentioned how, if you read Irish papers over the years, you would eventually notice a "trend" of small pieces about dead infants being found in public places. Like these things are reported but it's almost accepted. And that was something we never really discussed as a culture.

That or the old sow who eats her farrow, idk idk idk.

yeah the collusion between the community, religious orders and the state over this means no-one is ever going to be held accountable for it

shrug the collective shoulders and go on

mass grave of 800 bodies found in rural Ireland India, authorities powerless to act

"oh that's shocking, oh imagine living somewhere awful like that"

It does feel like casually ignoring horrific shit is part of our M.O. as a people. I mean, if you had any other country with the amount of suspicious devices and bomb scares we have...

just speaking personally like

I have experience of the type of fella still doing that, and at least as far as the local type goes, he's beyond idiocy, in the main, and yknow there's a reason most of them are intercepted long before the device gets to where its going, or if it gets there it doesn't stand a chance of working

that said, I wouldn't have called it commonplace out west, is it that much more prevalent other than towards the north or at Quinn factories?

is there any sense at all from the media of "ah the Church has had enough of a battering these past couple of years, let's give them a break eh lads"?

idk, first thoughts are yes to that, and then there's definitely deference from the IT and the other broadsheets, and then the most depressing thought is that well, this isn't news anymore

i did wonder if there was some variation on "scandal fatigue" as well as the lingering deference in some quarters

mix of all three

also afaic nothing done. the church has been publicly broken but hasn't seen individuals brought to justice nor paid anything like restoration nor been anything less than begrudging or defiant in acknowledgement.

and it still controls education infrastructure.

so the fatigue is strengthened by a lack of any faith in the structures that should be formally moving against the legacy power, lending credence to the uneasy suspicions that change isn't coming quickly

multiple xps

I was thinking more towards the border, Dundalk and all that, but you get a bit of it in Dublin too.

north side is the new border hey

this story made me remember when a 15 year old girl in my class at my catholic school had a baby she intended to keep who was born with severe birth defects and died within hours, and hard adult voices said it was for the best. these were people who marched piously against abortion and didn't believe in birth control but they said with grim satisfaction that her cruel bereavement was for the best, as if god had done her a big favour.

in the long run we might all someday get those ppls learned and certain wisdom, but I hope not

Most talk seems to be geared around "hey let's build a memorial" rather than anything else :/

Since 1824 the Sisters of Bon Secours have brought compassion, healing, and liberation to those they serve.
Whether in healthcare, education or social services, in hospitals, clinics or parishes, in towns and cities or isolated villages, Bon Secours responds to a universal need: To provide to all who suffer a reason to live and a reason to hope.

Please note: this offer excludes infants abandoned by God because their mother was a whore

re lack of coverage of this domestically

chairman of rte board is director of the firm handling the nuns pr apparently

I thought RTE were covering it now? They seem to have a good bit on the site atm. Was just reading this > http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0606/622045-dail-children/

they are now! silence was deafening for days after tho

yeah, "now" obviously the keyword here. I have a lot of problems with them and their obvious slants and biases (and the ridiculous amount of airtime they gave to the 1ona crowd too).

I wanted to go into that more with kev there too.

the Iona/far right balance issue is a case of Irish establishment either believing that there is a silently majority out there cheering Iona on (not my experience but I won't discount it), that 'balance' requires a fifty-fifty share of coverage, airtime and moderation without regard to fact or reason (def don't discount this) or that fuckit, its better TV to have the most partisan loudmouths possible on there regardless of misrepresentation.

all options are profoundly depressing so I turn gladly to conspiracy tbph

so my dad just found out that his grandparents were his granduncle/aunt- his grandmother was packed off to Dublin to have the child and was on the boat to the states a fortnight later. she never saw her son again despite returning to Ireland twice for him.

she married in NYC, had 6 kids (including a supreme court judge?) and one of her grandchildren made contact with dad today to meet up and trade stories.

all because lol catholic church lol ireland lol 1911, giving kid to your brother to raise and leaving home forever was the better alternative.

hmm seems more likely a court of appeals judge, nm

well then, only the court of appeals you say. then he's hardly made a noise in the world at all.

ugh he's an anti death penalty campaigner imma call dad back tell him to call the whole thing off

my old parish priest back in the news
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-34504729

I had an auntie who turned out be my half-sister. I got relegated to some foam on the floor for 4 years when she moved into our 2 bedroom house, it was an early lesson in dread lol catholicism for me :(

sort of on topic:p

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/05/14/cesnik-nun-murder-maskell_n_7267532.html

I am watching my national news service running a major story on a woman that was miraculously healed after visiting a shrine in my home county where the virgin mary appeared on a gable along with sundry others in 1879 and tear this fucking country down please

Knock? Easily the creepiest place in the country I’ve ever been to.

ive conducted housing interviews in day-long batches there and v noticeable strain of crazy vs the other six centres

Knock do some cracking holy water though, it might have cured me of the bollocking I got for greedily drinking a gulp of it once whilst "pooching" in the grown-up section of the childhood slum!

I didn't dare replace it with tap water lest i got struck down.