I have been banned from the Off The Telly mailing list

i am Irish and I like Oasis. Am I xenophobic?

You'd have said the same thing about Slade, I presume.

Sorry, no sympathy.

Robin, are you trying to steal the biggest Hater of Oasis in Britain award from me in 2002?

[Has anyone else noticed the tedious way NME.com generates news stories about Oasis, this is getting as bad as the Strokes last year. Also ex MM loving Oasis editor Mark Sutherland is now involved as a features writer for 6Music - why does this prat keep getting music publishing jobs when he has a track record of failure and crap music interests? Only in Britain !]

"dano" list mod ov yahoo group "electronic music"

> > No wonder you > >brits come over here to make money and turn your career into > something. > >You sure as hell can't do it there amongst yourselves. You guys have > >arrogance shoved so far up your arses it lights up your eyes.

then later on

>Nah I'm with you Glenn. SMD does a shove job when it comes to reviews. >You will notice a HUGE bias when it comes to reviewing those UK berlin >school albums (usually produced by SMD as well since no one else who >wants to make money will touch em). Those guys love that crap so of >course none of the UK BS artists can do wrong, even if using a toaster >and some rca plugs. Of course I'm probably biased because you know how >'racist' I am toward BS and white people. ;-p >

I responded thusly:

blah blah blah. Dude, just what the hell *is* your fux0ring damage? Firstly, David Law of SMD is one of the nicest, kindest, most courteous people I've ever met. I spent many hours with him, Ant Thrasher and Ian Boddy on the way to a KLEMDAG @ some point in thee early nineties (we shared a cabin on thee ferry), during which time I don't think I ever heard him say a bad word about ANYONE (despite much prompting). My dealings with him in the past suggest that he is a person of *extremely* high integrity, or if you want to put it another way, I'd send him a bunch of my releases (which are NOT BS, right? NOT IN EITHER SENSE OF THE TERM) and he'd pay for them by return post. In my experience this is unique, tho' YMMV, of course.

Secondly, given that David's label isn't, like, BMG or Interscope or some crap like that, can we assume that he releases records because he *actually likes* them? I mean, do you *really* expect to read something like "We released this rekord, even tho' we think it kilo-sux0rs, because you lamers might like it". Hardly. I mean, no-one is going to make a living that way, are they? I think we can probably say the same thing about most small labels. Most of the ones that last more than a year, anyway.

Anyway, I get a bunch of posts down each day, and I don't know, a whole bunch of stuff w/your name attached to it just seems to consist of a bunch of irrelevant adolescent whining. People suck. British electronic musicians suck. Boy-bands suck. Edgar Froese sucks. etc etc etc. I have this mental image of you as this pale 15yo boy w/long black trenchcoat & slipknot t-shirt - "I hate the world!!!" Dude, open yr eyes, & GROW UP!!!! Here we are, *supposedly* pushing some of the world's most obscure/culty music, and we/you waste time & mental energy on BS like this?!?!

Can we take the following as a given:
1/popular chart music for the most part is rubbish. It always was, and probably always will be.

2/tangerine dream used to be good. Now they suck. (Just like genesis, yes etc.) Newer bands/artists operating within the same *loose* parameters (IE largely instrumental, much use of electronic timbres in compositions, not dance/club orientated) are *much* more worthy of our attention.

3/ edgar froese is somewhat overweight

and GET OVER IT, hello, I mean the total global audience for electronic music of the sort discussed here is *very* small, to say the least. Quite possibly it is shrinking, as some older folks lose interest, and because mainstream music publications are owned by vast media conglomerates (EG, IPC, the publishers of the british music papers NME and UNCUT have just been bought outright my AOL-Time-Warner) who merely use them for cross-promoting their rubbish releases, we can't get ANY publicity there, and thus don't get fresh folks coming in like in the 1980's. Nevertheless, a list like this one, supposedly appealing to the global audience for e-music, many of whom were internet early adopters, should have, like 2-3000 members at least, not abt 350. Think about it. Think about why this *isn't* the case. Think about how we could *make* it the case - make it self-supporting & empowering. Someone else might, and then you might find yrself howling into the void, Dano. And I see two folks have left the list in the last week. One of them David J Hughes, someone who has actually gone to some effort to push e-music in my locality, and a very decent human being in my experience. Hardly the sort of person you want to chase away. I'm *hoping* to get some kind of thoughtful answer to this, not "you put a comma in the wrong place, so yr whole argument is VOID" or, "Screw you limey, p*ss off to B_EM, 'cuz you're not welcome here". Gimme any of that nonsense, Dano, any you'll land with a plop in my killfile. If you're just going to use this forum as a bully pulpit for whatever proportion of your personality revels in obnoxiousness, perhaps it's time you passed the list on to someone w/a more positive mental attitude & friendly manner?

xoxox

-- norman fay

he banned me. I agree w/DG, FWIW. most listmods I have encountered have been fine. Some, like Mike Perkowitz from analohue heaven are exceptionally good. However some, like the fellow above are assholes. I would tend to side w/Robin here, although this is b/c I like Robin a lot. I suggest to you Robin that you contribute more here, & forget those fux0rs.

"berlin school"/BS = semi improvised sequencer-mellotron & moogy music. google airsculpture or ['ramp] if this souns inert-er-esting.

Oh please. It's not like somebody came along and took your internet access away. You're perfectly at liberty to set up and moderate your own mailing list, FOR FREE, even if you've got to go thru the deeply satanic Yahoo! Groups to do it. I'm sure people will be queueing round the block to hear your fascinating opinions/be personally attacked the minute they disagree with you.

RIGHT PHAY YOU'RE BANNEDXOR!

Lesson learned, eh?

Well, it was me who banned Robin from the Off The Telly list and if he wants the reasons for this to be played out in public it's up to him. Personally, I wouldn't. However this'll be my only toe-dip into this discussion, and then I'll crawl back under my stone ...

Robin: "I have sent two emails to the list moderator asking what exactly he thinks he is doing and why he thinks he has done it, but he has not replied."

Both mails were sent on the same day - a few hours apart. I replied to Robin the following day (the 19th).

Robin: "The people who have expelled me for this thought crime (for it is to them) have no problem with allowing someone to say on a related web forum that 'the worst record ever made' was 'any rap song'."

Hmmm "people who have expelled me"? No, not "people" Robin. It was me. And comments on the "related forum" are allowed because there's a considerable difference between insulting a genre of music and insulting someone *personally*.

This is the mail Robin sent to the Off The Telly list that - in part - provoked me to ban him:

------ "I already disliked you as a person, [name protected to save the innocent]. Now I find out that your musical taste is worse than I could possibly imagine, even from someone like you.

Oasis! In 2002! Fuck off, I hated them even in 1995/96 - indeed they made an entire era into a living hell for me. Uninspired, plodding, backward-thinking and downright tedious rock music by and for boring, xenophobic laddish males.

Now I know why you have always seemed uninspired, backward-thinking and boring to me, [name protected to save the innocent].

Oasis indeed. Listen to some Outkast and start thinking straight.

RPC" ------

Some people on here have suggested that I should have sent Robin a warning mail, rather than simply banning him. In normal circumstances I would have, however this unprovoked personal attack on another list member (who, as far as I can remember, has never clashed with Robin in the past nor made anything that could even be implied as an insult against him) is sadly one of many.

Certainly Robin is not consistently abusive to other list members, but every few months he does seem to suddenly post unprovoked personal bile. On previous occasions I have mailed him privately, pointed out that I'm not happy with his comments and then carried on from there. This time around I guess I felt that I finally had to draw the line. And to be honest, I was bored with the whole thing. I did feel it was a shame to remove him from the list (he was one of its first members) but something had to give.

"I have also been banned from the affiliated TV Cream list, where I have said nothing in aeons."

Robin's not been banned from this list. As the TVC list is now on a "closed" membership system he can't access it via yahoogroups. If he wishes to resubscribe to it he's welcome to drop me a line!

"I have my own theories as to why they want me out, but will not write them here for security reasons. Anyone who is interested in this curious saga please write to me privately."

This obviously portents towards a foul conspiracy or something ... and it's just too easy to make dark mysterious mutterings like this on a public forum without having anything to back 'em up.

The truth is: Robin was removed for the reasons stated above (and I haven't even gone into all the gory details to save him *some* dignity). That’s it. I’m sorry if Robin considers my actions to have been "an attack on my civil liberties on the internet". I think his actions are an attack on people posting freely on the Off The Telly list. I think they’re an attack on people daring to express their own musical tastes. I think I did the right thing.

I posted my original rant in a fit of pique late on Saturday night: I would be the first person to admit that my comments were excessive and vitriolic. Whatever has happened - and I'm not entirely sure of it yet myself - a chapter in my life came to an end this weekend. It should at least concentrate me on my own website, after approximately 4,325 years ...

Mark S called Mark C dense because his second post was an attempt to stop the dialogue by sneering at anyone engaging in it - something there is no 'real life' equivalent of. (And "Live with it and maybe grow up a bit" would be rude as fuck in 'real life', too, Mark.)

What are your thoughts on the forthcoming Oasis album?

It alas is not to my liking, sir.

I am exceptionally fond of said ensemble.

I respect our differing opinions, sir, and hence by my leave you may enjoy the fruits which may blossom within their new package.

Thank you for your open invitation, kind sir. I shall revel in their rock.

Different strokes, after all, for different folks, as they say! Ha! Ha! Chortle!

There's room for every taste in our aesthetic treehouse!

I must proffer my virtual right hand in fond yet tender tribute to your willingness to acknowledge and to a certain extent embrace my tastes, which, albeit diametrically opposed to yours, you have recognised as equally valid.

(Following disappointing response to above, normal service resumes, viz.:)

RoXoR SoXoR whup ass bramble jelly JERKDORK Scorpions ASSHOLE EVAH!!

i have boguth an osais album.

it is made of viynl.

it revives memoreis of brick lane outfits.

should have boutgh sweet badass song recodr instead.

my landlord threw me out - onto a bed of strawberries, so that was OK. Van Halen MAKE ME WANNA JUMMMPPPPP!

here is my burn cd listing asshole:

smiths - headmaster ritual

sugabyrne - r freaks lazy

nick low - all men are liars

sonny sharock - black women

guided by voices - track 38

cory heart - hazard

haert - dreamboat annie

byron mcgregor - americans

colorboxx - world cupp theem

shack - smack

doves - wake up its a beautiful morning

kroydon kuntz - free my people ho bitch garage ignight

terry weld - you blister my paint

sonny bono - by the time i get to fenix

apple tree theater - i wonder if louise is homo

i have not listened to any of these. they are just great tracks which you should look out for.

whup lubricant lemon mousse cool blackcurrant not - DISCUSS!

Tom. I don't sneer when I'm making a serious point. I wasn't trying to stop the dialogue either, like I ever could in this forum! AND (although you might not agree) I feel it's more justified to give a robust response when someone has stepped out of line. I wouldn't say something like that without what I considered good reason.

i think robin's original remark was breaktakingly rude, but as he i think explains, his awareness of this (at point of posting, and also at point of thread-starting) had not yet entirely kicked in => in the event the Man on the Telly's solution was probably the right one, but doesn't norman's post put the OTT event in perspective, not (as it turns out) by being a carbon copy of Robin vs Oasis, but actually by being (after due consideration) palpably different?

I regard this as an attack on my civil liberties on the internet.

virtual gitmo

bring back robin

that thing with the 70s people was really funny

Bass drop.

Terrifying. What's Robin doing these days?

Oasis indeed. Listen to some Outkast and start thinking straight.

^^^oh for changeable usernames

Do you still bear some kind of grudge against Robin, Dom?

This thread is all very web 1.0

This is what Robin's doing; http://robincarmody.livejournal.com/

I'd be fascinated to know what his day job is. I'm genuinely intrigued by the guy; he writes with such... deadset, stoical, profound seriousness that it almost seems as if he's somehow intimately tied up with the... I don't know. The secret running of this country. With the 12foot lizards. Everything seems so matter-of-life-and-death important in his writing.

What happened on March 20th 2003?

iraq

Aha, of course. I had assumed it was something... more personal to him than that, but I can also see that he views things like that as personal.

He was posting here again recently. And he sometimes posts on the When Saturday Comes music forum.

civil liberties on the internet

he is doing and why he

expelled me for this thought crime

http://fraser.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/fall.jpg

"civil liberties on the internet-uh....
he is doing - uh - and why he....
expelled me...
for this thought crime-uh"

All it needs now is an obscure reference to a regional Granada programme.

From 1983.

I was hoping pre-1963 when they made some Welsh programmes for their overlap area but I guess that'll do in a pinch.

I regard this as an attack on my civil liberties on the internet.

This thread is all very web 1.0

― Pashmina, Wednesday, May 7, 2008 1:11 PM (8 years ago)