2008 USP(G)ET pt. II: counting the days to 2012 primary thread 1

xpost to Tracer

We're almost as bad here in Canada, although like a hypocrite I don't mind it. Perhaps because there's nothing offensive about a red maple leaf(?). Although, being from England originally and remembering the silver jubilees and royal weddings and Falklands flag-waving orgies I was grossed out completely by the Brit equivalent.

Good point omar. I hope you're right.

(Funny how the ratcheting tension in the U.S election is forcing me to delurk here, even as we go to the polls ourselves on Tuesday.)

I think that the fact the United States didn't exterminate minorities in Death Camps probably contributes to the lack of humiliation over overt signs of Nationalism. (Which isn't to say that the US hasn't done awful things out of Nationalism fervor, but nothing as aesthetically disturbing as fascist regimes in Germany, Spain, Italy, etc.)

Which isn't to excuse USA nationalism, just to suggest that the reduction of overt nationalism is generally a response to horror that came about because of it. It doesn't go away spontaneously.

Lostandfound I feel that jubilee stuff is something less than patriotism or nationalism though and more of just like, I dunno.. twee nostalgia?

Regarding what you saw on TV, I think part of the problem is that 95% - or higher - of "political news" on television is not news but some blowhard giving his opinion. Yet said blowhard imagines he or she is an actual journalist, and so imagines that he or she must be fair and impartial. In his or her opinion of whether or not one candidate is a lying, evasive phony or not. It's ridiculous.

Hand xpost: I agree - and that this nationalism is somewhat across the board in US political discourse, not just on the Right. And this is true of religiosity too, whatever one or two ill-mannered or dumb people may think.

btw I didn't say earlier that religiosity was the main thing about the Right, but that they were not very conservative but very dangerously radical and militant.

L&F: I have just watched the crap film THIS IS ENGLAND which makes a big deal about the Falklands, and it made me think among other things how despite all the jingoistic BS around that event, the country was not in fact marked by a nationalistic frenzy. A couple of events like that do not change the general contrast with the US ... and come to think of it ... is US politics a lot more stupidly and cravenly religiose and fearfully nationalistic now than it was 40 years ago, or is that just illusion or ignorance re. the past?

Mordy, that's exactly what I was saying. But I don't think that getting past nationalism requires either spontaneous luck or causing a Holocaust oneself. I mean, you might think that playing a big part in defeating the worst nationalist regime of the 20th century, liberating other nations from their death grip, and confronting the horrors of concentration camps might be just a tiny wee prod towards toning down the whole "we are the best country ever" rhetoric.

pinefox I think it was actually probably worse in the past, in that regard.

(xpost)

Yes, I probably shouldn't have conflated the royal wedding/jubilee stuff with the Falklands conflict -- you're right about it being twee nostalgia. I don't know, my memory of the latter was quite ugly but I was virulently anti-Thatcher, which is largely why I'm now a Canadian. Perhaps there was a nostalgia element to that, too -- a hankering for when "Britain ruled the waves", etc. I just remember a lot of talk about killing Argies and flags being waved while navy ships set sail, etc. That said, I do have lots of fond memories of England and it's not a black-and-white thing for me... although it's interesting that I have less compunction against displaying Canadian patriotism than I ever did about the British equivalent. But this is becoming a derail now.

On the contrary. I think all those things only encourage the rhetoric. "Their nationalism lead to X, ours led to Y. Clearly our nationalism is better." It's a firm part of American exceptionalism. Other countries don't have the same moral right to nationalism that we do. (And I don't think it's a religious exceptionalism for that reason. I think it's a moral one.)

XP

Canadan patriotism = cheering at hockey games?

Kathleen Hall Jamieson is pretty smart, huh?
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/10102008/watch2.html

Canadan patriotism = cheering at hockey games?

Yes, plus cheap pancake breakfasts down at the local park on July 1st.

Plus:

hey you guys this is the primary thread

http://www.chasingthefrog.com/reelfaces/leagueoftheirown/hanks.jpgthere's no patriotism in the primary thread!

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3151/2922393167_6f8a0611b5.jpg

this meme is not funny

THIS meme on the other hand...

http://fast.livecrunch.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/dztob9jpg.gif

btw mccain vowed to "whip his you-know-what" in the upcoming debate fyi

pussy?

he also said the "gloves were coming off" for the last one

yeah he's just saying whatever he has to so that the mob he's fomented won't kill him on the spot

lol @ pollsters being like "Obama's lead has narrowed to 8 points!!!"

up to 94% at 538

SNL's Obama is soooo bad, although Hammond's McCain is otm. I caught a moment of Mad TV last night and their Obama is surprisingly excellent!

I say surprisingly excellent because I usually find Mad TV to be about as funny as a Holocaust documentary.

nah fred armisen's obama is pretty good his voice just isnt low enough

armisen has the stop and start cadences down.

yeah, for real, hes just hard to believe cause the timbre of his voice is so difft

The guy who does mccain on SNL plays him exactly the same way he played Gore

McCain is really threatening to whip Obama!? O_o

another reason to look forward to the obama administration is that democratic and liberally-inclined media outlets may finally become so overwhelmed in the hurricane of terms-and-phrases-that-could-be-decoded-for-possible-bigotry-gotchas that it becomes passe, and we can all move on from this insipid era of paying attention to everything white crypto-racists have to say, because omg ppl are saying these things, in my country. it's fucking schrodinger's cat with some of this garbage. If a bigot says nigger in a trailer park, and one blogger hears him, did it affect the national energy policy?

Should not have used the "white" modifier in that post, in hindsight

^ blah blah blah N-word blah blah blah ^

;)

I see that talking about race is like tossing around a grenade with the pin out!

surprise?

http://i37.tinypic.com/2mm7h2t.jpg

i was under the impression that he couldnt reach this high

Wednesday's debate is a sit-down debate similar to the 2004 VP debate. Playing really aggressive doesn't translate well. And if McCain's threatened ass-whupping is anything near his "gloves off" town-hall debate, I don't think Obama has anything to worry about.

http://i34.tinypic.com/211qhoz.jpg

jhosh 6pack makes a good point.

THIS meme on the other hand...

What IS she saying in that clip after all?

i have been wondering

i was under the impression that he couldnt reach this high

Puppetmasters.

(xp) my pussy's so wide (from all the kids)

http://theinternetisterrible.com/wp-content/things/hotnewsjk2.jpg

breaking nooz: mccain's gonna pull his 39th hail mary of the week.

http://thepage.time.com/2008/10/12/press-reset-if-campaign-freezes-and-seems-broken/

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D93PD0880&show_article=1

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/10/is-drudge-priming-mccain-reboot.html

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3140/2937508908_e499678535.jpg?v=0

haha Z S to thread for urgent pic animation!

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3035/2937836650_657f05c4ce_o.png

: D

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3178/2937519028_154f8d86a4.jpg?v=0