Best Martin Scorsese movie

In the interests of brevity I left out his shorts and video work but kept his more significant TV work. If you really want to vote for 'The Big Shave' or 'Bad' then use the Other option.

Or that noted short, "Gangs of New York" : )

The King of Comedy is really his most perfect work, like a better version of Taxi Driver without the violence and exploitation aspect. But the situations depicted in it are often so embarrassing it's almost unbearable to watch.

Love that film but it's not his best

xxxpost

Excuse me for a moment whilst I kill myself. Yeah put 'Gangs' in other too, though I can't imagine many voting for it.

Goodfellas, easy.

Looking at this list makes me realise that I only really like Taxi Driver, The King Of Comedy and After Hours. And The Big Shave.

I've seen every single one of these (even Other) cept for Lady by the Sea and Street Scenes, neither of which I've even heard of until just right now. And after suffering through an entire, semester-long grad seminar on nothing but the man himself (!), I feel more than qualified to state that The King of Comedy is his only masterpiece, that Casino >> Goodfellas, that Kundun, Bringing Out the Dead, and especially, After Hours are much better than anything he did in the 1970s, that Mean Streets, Taxi Driver, and Raging Bull cannot bear the weight of their ecstatic reception histories, and that none of the films just mentioned are flat-out bad films.

So very easily, The King of Comedy.

Worst: Boxcar Bertha (much, MUCH worse than The Color of Money which is more inconsequential than just bad)

Film I seriously wish I liked more: New York, New York

I really like After Hours and Bringing Out the Dead too, those two and King of Comedy are the only ones I'd consider voting.

He's always been overrated, but it's not his fault. No perfect films, quite a lot of bad ones, especially in the mid eighties and mid nineties. Voted for Taxi Driver over Goodfellas, despite the Bernard Herrman score.

Most underrated: The Age of Innocence.

But the situations depicted in it are often so embarrassing it's almost unbearable to watch.

There's a fantastic essay on this very aspect: William Ian Miller, "'I Can Take a Hint': Social Ineptitude, Embarrassment, and The King of Comedy." If anyone wants a copy, let me know.

Even though I voted for King of Comedy, I fear Casino may not get its due. Yeah, it hits a lot of the same notes as Goodfellas, but it's so much more nuanced and knowing.

jeez, I thought I was the only King fan on this board. W'happen?

See? You DO have some nefarious influence.

Nice to see praise for Bringing Out the Dead.

astonishing rather than nice, I'd say

Casino >> Goodfellas

o_O

i liked Casino more than any of the others. his films leave me cold most of the time.

Casino just felt like GF2. Watching it that way, it fell way short.

^^ yes, with extra who-gives-a-damn

I think I'm one of the only people who likes the taxi driver score. that winsome little saxophone number is a perfect evocation of travis; a cheap, maudlin take on faux urban sophistication, nostalgia for a time that never existed. at other points the score sounds like a 50s monster movie, which I dig.

there's an interesting story behind that little wacko sound at the end that lets you know travis is still batshit crazy - herrmann had put in a bell ring at that point. it was the last night of scoring and herrmann was walking out the studio door. scorsese was complaining to him that he didn't like the bell and herrmann yelled back over his shoulder "play it backwards." herrmann died that night.

xpost

Yeah, Casino just felt like Goodfellas Redux but less focused, less tight.

I can't imagine it getting many votes but I really like 'Age of Innocence', it's quite brutal in the way that an apparently geneteel society can punish an individual who errs. I think he works best when dealing with the dynamics of a community and an outsiders place in it. Maybe that's why stuff like The Aviator and Color of Money didn't work as well for me as his other work.

I think I'm one of the only people who likes the taxi driver score

What?!??!

Goodfellas, easy.

-- nate woolls, Friday, August 15, 2008 7:07 AM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Link

yeah Edward, Herrmann fans like the TD score just fine.

(he also inserted a Psycho quote under the end credits, a rumbling 3 notes on the cello)

Most underrated: Last Temptation
Most overrated: Goodfellas

Looking at this list makes me realise that I only really like Taxi Driver, The King Of Comedy and After Hours.

OTM. Kind of want to be a pain and throw a vote at The Last Waltz but I will go with KoC.

Goodfellas and King are at the top for me. Too different to choose between.

Morbz OTM. Bringing Out the Dead is a disaster, dunno what people saw in that one.

eez, I thought I was the only King fan on this board. W'happen?

you're completely insane, i've overheard you having fawning conversations with other ilxors (including myself) about this movie multiple times!

i dont think it's great or anything, but I do enjoy The Aviator a lot.

Most underrated: Last Temptation
Most overrated: Goodfellas

-- Eric H., Friday, August 15, 2008 2:32 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Link

silly. wouldn't most overrated go to say, taxi driver? or raging bull?

schef, I'm not insane, just senile.

Yeah, Eric who wrote "fuck Raging Bull"?

TD may be overrated, but on my last viewing it's better than I used to think.

i dig bringing out the dead, maybe mostly because it looks fantastic and i find it to be a genuinely weird movie w/r/t tone and acting.

in Joe Pesci Casino has one of the worst accent and performances I've ever seen. Is he speaking English?

i give him props for being the only one in the movie to attempt a chicago accent~

Pesci's a terrible actor

I guess I've read more people criticize the taxi driver score in recent times than I've read praise of it.

if you want to talk underrated scorsese check out his first full length, who's that knocking at my door. it's like a dry run for mean streets, and I'm always impressed by how many of his trademark tricks were already fully realized in the late 60s. from the opening montage you know you're watching a scorsese film. it's light on plot but there are a number of impressive sequences, including a rape scene played with no sound other than an incongruous doo wop song.

then again, I really like the color of money and never understood the general lambasting it gets. yeah, it's not the greatest movie in the world, but it's a solid flick. and forrest whitaker has a great bit part in it.

agree that boxcar bertha is his personal nadir. its sole cinematic moment of grace is keith carradine crucified to a boxcar.

if bringing out the dead was made by some up and coming director nobody heard of, I think people would give it more slack. again, not the greatest movie ever, but it's a quirky, small film with some interesting takes on redemption.

the scene of the drug dealer being sawed out of his impalement has this weird ecstatic quality to it.

omar otm.

and i like casino a lot too! some days i prefer it to goodfellas because some days i prefer its really grim tone (not that goodfellas is a comedy, but then again it sort of is in a weird way). i have a fair amount of admiration for his trio w/dicaprio as well. the obvious ones (mean streets, taxi driver, raging bull) are all great though i don't think raging bull's greatness really appeals to me as much as taxi driver's, and i prefer mean streets to both by a fair amount.

sole cinematic moment of grace is keith carradine crucified to a boxcar.

That's David Carradine, and Boxcar Bertha is certainly better than Cape Fear (or Kill Bill).

Goodfellas, easy.

-- nate woolls, Friday, August 15, 2008 7:07 AM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Link

-- rent, Friday, August 15, 2008 2:21 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Link

haha yeah david carradine. cape fear seems pretty dire but I actually haven't seen it in its glorious entirety.

imdb trivia on boxcar bertha
After he finished this film, Martin Scorsese screened the film for John Cassavetes. Cassavetes, after seeing this film, hugged Scorsese and said, "Martin, you just spent a year of your life making shit!"

tho I'm happy you're willing to rep for a movie with BOXCAR in the title

After Hours
Kundun

kundun's only redeeming feature is making mao a campy b-movie villain

Casavetes, (semi-)wrong again!

Fuck you.

lol i do actually have a theory abt why e.g. chrises hemsworth and evans can both be effective and funny actors within the MCU ensembles, doing good close-up facework against greenscreen backdrops they can't see as they act, and then can't transfer this to films without greenscreen or their usual foils (it's not even a very elaborate or contrarian theory)

Can you please share your theory with the rest of the class?

not right now

Fair enough?

You'll have to suscribe to the patreon

i feel like "not cinema" was a gut reaction to a dull question and probably doesn't bear more analysis than that

probably yes, and also in a weird way an attempt at diplomacy - "this doesn't really have anything to do with what I do, don't ask me about it" as opposed to "this is a bad and inferior example of the medium I work in". obviously tho if his intention was to avoid outrage that didn't work out.

It was very brief and general a comment so we can say it wasn't thought through.

From this doc though we can say MS' take on cinema is very auteurist, it's maverick directors who go against the studio bosses. Or studio bosses that are mavericks. Marvel only appears to have the latter. All of it appears to be quite calculated to cut out the role of a director.

In the NY-er it talks about several comic book films which had a life before and after the MCU. So it talks about Branagh's Thor and then the later ones. I hate Branagh, but he would've stamped some Shakespearian bollocks to it (I haven't watched it so). It seems like a one-off.

heh!

"get the Shakespearian bollocks guy"

Eh the first Thor is less a Branagh film than the third and fourth are Waititi films. Gotg also pretty clearly James Gunn films. For better and (mostly) worse.

Edgar Wright did get kicked off Ant Man and I'd guess that's partially to do with having a distinct visual style and sensibility - not someone you'd be keen to champion as an auteur either I realise.

Lucretia Martel was in talks to do Black Widow but refused because they refused to let her have input into the fight scenes iirc.

in the context of watching them with the kid, i like the marvel movies well enough when they're hitting the right notes, but it's just a lot of mediocre content you've gotta get through. the third acts are almost always exhausting, FX-heavy ripoffs of earlier marvel films.

to compare blockbusters, i watched MI: Rogue Nation with the kid a couple weeks back and the filmmaking craft and storytelling were so much more accomplished, he was kinda wowed after all those superhero flicks and the non-Gilroy brothers Star Wars content we've been trudging through.

i would have thought Scorsese's tossed-off or otherwise not-cinema was a lot to do with what ended up on the screen as much as how it was made but perhaps the question that provoked it (cant recall it myself at this stage) had a very specific bent that would say otherwise

omar otm re marvel movies they are all fine at some stuff and truly awful at other stuff and as a whole its a waste of time and attn to have watched them at all by the time the credits are rolling

This piece by John Lahr is a version of MS' doc

https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v45/n12/john-lahr/toots-they-owned-you

I and my ‘basic material’, as scripts were called at the studio, were passed to his friend, the director Mark Rydell, who was so smooth Gucci wore his shoes. (‘I love what you do’ were his first words.)

lol this is the character Rydell plays in The Long Goodbye too.

Right

"A work of non-friction" is a clever turn of phrase.

Untouchables

It wasn't until I saw the original Cape Fear a year or two ago that I realized how bad Scorsese's remake is. Crude and sloppy.

I haven't watched it in a while, but last time I did, I felt like he was stylistically going for a Hitchcock homage but laid it on way too thick. In its defense, I think some of the new elements Scorsese brought to the material was promising, and the cast is terrific, but that potential doesn't come to fruition.

I remember the original Cape Fear being reactionary in a way that isn't shocking if you've seen enough anonymous b movies of the era but when I saw it I'd mostly seen stuff from the auteur A list and as a consequence it felt quite disgusting.

I used to despise Cape Fear, but watching it again in April set me straight. It's a compelling mess. The parts I was most afraid to re-visit (i.e. anything with Juliette Lewis) were the most compelling.

Cape Fear is among the Marty joints I haven’t gotten to yet.

Not sure if watching the 1962 original first would be better or worse for your experience. (I definitely saw the 1991 version first, though it was fine. Watched the 1962 version, then the 1991 version again a few months later, and realized I dislike it a great deal.)

I don’t know if I will see it, in part because it doesn’t seem like my jam. (This is also why I didn’t see Taxi Driver until very recently.)

It wasn't until I saw the original Cape Fear a year or two ago that I realized how bad Scorsese's remake is. Crude and sloppy.

Not sure whether I'd seen the original at that point or not, but Scorsese's was just standalone terrible either way.

I saw taxi driver when I was younger and thought it was great but every subsequent viewing just moves it higher up in my personal top ten. It's iconography and college dude movie rep don't help expectations but it's an unexpectedly beautiful film. I think Scorsese is maybe at his best when he doesn't give you exactly what you think he'll give you. As great as he often is at doing his "usual thing."

Yeah, it's been way too long since I saw Cape Fear (and I suspect it was an edited-for-television version) to know whether I think it's as bad as all that. Shutter Island is his better thriller no doubt

for my thanksbirthday i received the criterion 4K of Mean Streets. it's a film where so much of his thing is already there, especially the seemingly improvised street humor. that backroom conversation between DeNiro and Keitel is such an A+ scene in that respect.

there's a vv good interview w/Scorsese in the new issue of Esquire (which was delivered to us, addressed to a fictional-sounding name: someone who doesn't apparently exist) and he's aware he's entering his final stretch (i mean obv, he just turned 81) and is hoping to get several more films made.

Did you know that "mook" is acceptable in Scrabble? This is true. And, if you play it, also sets up exactly the response you want from your opponent.

https://scrabble.merriam.com/finder/mook

The Raging Bull thread is on I Love Film...Can someone identify the music here for me?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2xD-HYTPPI

Pietro Mascagni's Barcarolle from the opera Silvano.

Many thanks.

Is “mook” an ethnically offensive word, or does it just have that association because the guys in Mean Streets say it? I ask that because I occasionally use the word IRL.

According to that link to the Scrabble dictionary, it just means "a foolish or contemptible person," no ethnicity involved. Which is how I always took it from the film too.

Good to know. I will be less self conscious about calling people mooks going forward.

A mook is a mook is a mook. The word cuts across race, ethnicity, gender, everything. They're everywhere.

And they all worship the same god.

https://i.postimg.cc/0QQjhWKg/mook.jpg

Watched Who's That Knocking at My Door? for maybe only the second time in my life (the DVD I used was a still-sealed $3 copy I bought at least 10 years ago). Whatever I may have posted in the past working from memory, didn't think it was great at all--one incredible four-minute musical cue ("El Watusi"), some technical interest, a very good performance from Keitel (also Zina Bethune, who basically disappeared from movies afterwards), and not a lot else. Endless conversations that go around in circles--which anticipate the same in later films, but they're not at all funny here. I can understand why someone like Ebert would have made a fuss over it in 1969, and there are other directors where I prefer early rough work to polished later stuff--and honestly, I'd take it over Killers of the Flowers Moon. But not over Mean Streets, which is exponentially better.

We posted the first of these on May 18, 2020 (20th Century Women), the early days of the pandemic; we've got two more to go after this one, on three Scorsese films:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAuMg5zjgIo

Some confusion over whether the "Steppin' Out" in Mean Streets is John Mayall's or Cream's. I guess it is Cream (not on any of the studio albums)--I always thought it was from the first John Mayall album.

Cream did a long version of "Steppin' Out" on Live Cream II, an archival release from '72.

It was initially mistitled/credited as "Hideaway", which IIRC carried over to some prints of Mean Streets.

Both songs being instrumentals first recorded by Clapton during his time with Mayall.

That's it--I distinctly remember seeing "Hideaway" in the music credits more than once. Mystery solved, thanks.

The song in question (1:45):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XA2XMiK12VQ

We talk a lot about this, which--dead serious--I think is the greatest four minutes of any Scorsese film ever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVIA1vqQfb8

(I may have posted this clip upthread--if so, that link is broken.)

Just watched The Age of Innocence for the first time. It was a pleasure to be sunk in that milieu for a couple of hours. There is a sense that with such strong source material, it's your set designers and casting agent you're going to rely on most of all but I thought it was handled well. I think it's aged well (a bit like DDL. tbf), albeit the editing in the final scenes in the Paris courtyard is kinda clunky.

Curious whom Alfred would have cast instead of Pfeiffer...

Right?!?

Sigourney Weaver?

I appreciate that Marty is this level of nerd. With staff helping of course.

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2024/mar/25/martin-scorsese-vhs-video-collection-archive

Looks like he was cool using SLP