The Royal Tenenbaums: the best film ever made by a man or a woman?

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Probably not. I went to see it last night and after a great start, got a bit fed up of it after a while. But then it totally clicked again. What really made the difference for me were the scenes based around Margot towards the end. The scene with Richie in the tent, the one up on the roof where they have a cigarette and maybe above all, just the way she delivered the line "I know it was" at the end of the short ice cream parlour meeting with Royal.

How am I supposed to distinguish between critical approval and falling in love with a character/actress? That's a serious question, you know.

― N., Thursday, 21 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

paging mark s

― Alan Trewartha, Thursday, 21 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

No, no, it's *should* you distinguish between critical approval and character appreciation. Actually, I am talking out of my arsemonkey. Resume the thread.

― alix, Thursday, 21 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Silly Nick.

― Nicole, Thursday, 21 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

No, you're right - it's 'should I' as well as 'how can I'?

― N., Thursday, 21 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

dr vick and i prefer catcher in the rye

― mark s, Thursday, 21 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I am alarmed to hear about this turnabout in opinion.

― alix, Thursday, 21 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

How am I supposed to distinguish between critical approval and falling in love with a character/actress? That's a serious question, you know.

Shouldn't the former involve, I dunno, a pitter-pattering heart and blood running to (relevant parts of anatomy; complete for yourself), dreamy-eyed stare and latter things like going 'hmm, yes', nodding, and stroking of chin? I would be more worried about inability to distinguish between actor and character.

I haven't seen the RT yet. I prefer Mark s and Dr Vick, myself.

― Ellie, Thursday, 21 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

i take risks with my material = i am a true artist in a commercially constrained world

― mark s, Thursday, 21 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I don't know if Ellie deliberately put those the 'wrong' way around but if she did she's totally OTM.

― N., Thursday, 21 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

turnaround in opinion arose incidentally wiv the realisation that the film had been made by a man or a woman

dr vick and i are against this kind of thing

― mark s, Thursday, 21 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

N - TRT has *already* won the Most Threads award - you didn't need to do this.

Or is there a secret game going on re. Everyone Starts A TRT Thread, that I've forgotten about?

PS / I am sure that everything N says about the film is true cos he is clever and sensitive.

― the pinefox, Thursday, 21 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Seriously, just thinking of that line "I know it was" and all this emotional energy whooshes all around my my body and doesn't know where to go. That's like love, right?

― N., Thursday, 21 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

or indigestion, I'd go with love though, it's far more exciting.

― chris, Thursday, 21 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I hate you.

― N., Thursday, 21 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Love? Hate? Serious mood swings there.

― Anna, Thursday, 21 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I feel your hate Nick, and that gives me sadness.

― chris, Thursday, 21 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

It's OK though because I have a firm grasp on the difference between Chris and Gwyneth Paltrow.

― N., Thursday, 21 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

The mind boggles. Still after a few Double Deckers you never know what hillarious consequences could ensue.

― Anna, Thursday, 21 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Could this be the last thread about this damn film please?

― DG, Thursday, 21 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

harumph (again!)

/flounces off home

― chris, Thursday, 21 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I saw it yesterday and I don't think I larfed once. I did thoroughly enjoy it and so did dr vick (I presume). I don't remember the line to which N. refers (I had trouble concentrating because I had a headache from having just watched Monsters Inc. on one of those newfangled digital projector hoofer doofers. Rediculously sharp and detailed, horrible to look at. And no I do not want how detailed Sulley's fur is shoved in my face constantly, I'm trying to watch the BLADDY film), so can you remind me?

― Graham, Thursday, 21 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

just thinking of that line "I know it was" and all this emotional energy whooshes all around my my body and doesn't know where to go. That's like love, right?

No, that's critical approval, like I said. (Ok, I stuffed up).

― ELlie, Thursday, 21 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I thought it was a bit dull, not a patch on rushmore, but mainly ruined by the USELESS BRAYING HORDES of oxford LAFFING AT EVERY DAMN LINE, i nearly walked out i was so annoyed (and also a bit pished)

― CarsmileSteve, Thursday, 21 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

it's a funny film = ppl larf at it

― mark s, Thursday, 21 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

non-stop in my case (cf also the case of dr vick)

― mark s, Thursday, 21 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

/flounces off home

Stealing my identity again, then? HMPH! *struts off with nose in air*

― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 21 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I was yesterday astonished by Edna Welthorpe's knack for drawing connections between The Royal Tenenbaums and everything in life ever.

― N., Monday, 25 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

There were braying hoards in London yesterday too Steve. I kept wondering what I'd missed, then realising they were just mad people laughing at their popcorn, surely Eli saying hello wasn't really a moment of comic genius?

― Anna, Monday, 25 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

The people behind me kept whispering and gaffawing every time a Gypsy Cab appeared.

― N., Monday, 25 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

just (finally) saw it. nick is on the money re "i know it was". the scene in the tent was amazing. hardly anyone laughed at anything when i was at the cinema, even at the beginning. except that one of the irritating women next to me laughed at the suicide bit (and the other one later said "aren't they borther and sister?").

my fave film in quite a while, i think. though i say such things too often.

― toby, Monday, 25 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Can someone put me out of my misery re this "I know it was" scene.

― Graham, Monday, 25 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

all these ppl larfing any time at every performance anywhere are either me or dr vick (or both, where circumstance permits)

― mark s, Monday, 25 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

her middle name = gran's name

― toby, Monday, 25 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

the only reservation i have about it at the moment is that i kept feeling that i wanted to be more emotionally engaged by it than i actually was... but i need time to think about that, really.

― toby, Monday, 25 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I discovered the other day that some people use 'middlebrow' to describe any film or book that attempts to emotionally engage you. Another reason to hate the word.

― N., Tuesday, 26 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

They said that about the Mission, 'middlebrow.' So was Wayne Hussey trying to emotionally engage you?

― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 26 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I realise my problem with the Royal Tenenbaums is that it has too many characters and you never really get to know any of them, and I got confused as well. I do need to see it again.

― Graham, Tuesday, 26 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Too many characters that you don't get to know? I think it's supposed to be like that: a series of flashcuts, snapshots of lives, two dimensions, little glimpses and set pieces. However, the fact that over 110% is narrative gets a bit annoying and ultimately the film left me extremely cold.

Didn't laugh out loud once, except where Hackman is skipping across the road with the two children and nearly gets hit. But that's only slapstick and a cheap laugh. The rest was dull and worthy.

It came across as one of those mainstream hollywood films that is directed by a cynical trope who wants to make a clever film the can be laughed at on many levels or just plain enjoyed. In that sense it reminded me of State & Main (of last year) which is the funniest comedy that you'll never laugh out loud at and which is infinitely better than this film.

Hands up if you like both Amelie & TRT? ;-)

― powertonevolume, Wednesday, 27 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

"worthy"?

― mark s, Wednesday, 27 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

OK I am drawn to cryptic, so yes I liked the fact that the 3-dness of characterisation was ALL edge of frame, rarely decated into the speeches, but was this — like the Simpsons eg — a film deliberately made to be REwatched with the pause button, and is that a good thing and what others are there also?

ps don't say withnail and i

― mark s, Wednesday, 27 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

~~Trading Places~~
~~Carry on Camping~~
Peter Greenaway films?

― N., Wednesday, 27 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

"decated"?

― mark s, Wednesday, 27 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I just assumed it was some word.

― N., Wednesday, 27 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Worthy as in "I said it was dull cos it is and when you say something is dull the natural progression is to say it is worthy like an automaton [or Henry Rollins]". Can you explain it to me then Mark, why did you guffaw, take one scene and explain it to me. Please. I'm interested because I just didn't get it one bit. The only thing that saved it was the fact that although Gwyneth merely struck a pose and held it for an hour and a half she did it looking so damn good. The only thing...

I'm still in thrall to Eureka which I saw a few months ago and bowled me over; thus, resulting in every film watched since looking like anaemic rubbish. Cue someone dissing Eureka.

― powertonevolume, Wednesday, 27 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

blimey i think i will have to see it again to do that request justice, PTV. Back at you after the easter break. Possibly if i see it a second time I will not larf once...

― mark s, Wednesday, 27 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

three years pass...

I would like to see it again.

― the snowfox, Wednesday, 28 December 2005 11:03 (twenty years ago)

I'd like to see it again for the first time.

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Wednesday, 28 December 2005 11:39 (twenty years ago)

Good god, no. *shudder*

― Hey Jude, Thursday, 29 December 2005 07:43 (twenty years ago)

How am I supposed to distinguish between critical approval and falling in love with a character/actress? That's a serious question, you know.

I fear this has happened to me more times than I care to admit.

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 29 December 2005 07:51 (twenty years ago)

It is truly hard to know. I think you begin to distinguish between the two scenarios after time? At least, I think I have. Although, watching a garbage movie knowing you are doing it because someone is hot, is OK I think. Especially if it's on TV:)

― scout (scout), Thursday, 29 December 2005 08:27 (twenty years ago)

ile: love movies about sad rich white people!!!

― howell huser (chaki), Thursday, 29 December 2005 08:47 (twenty years ago)

haha isn't this ethan's favorite movie?

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Thursday, 29 December 2005 08:53 (twenty years ago)

movies about sad rich white people: citizen kane, the godfather, 8 1/2, le regle du jeu.

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Thursday, 29 December 2005 09:02 (twenty years ago)

Broken Flowers, Annie Hall, As Good As It Gets, The Adventure, Before Sunset, Those Who Love Me Can Take the Train, Look at Me, Eyes Wide Shut, The Celebration, The Grande Bouffe, Groundhog Day, Happiness, The Ice Storm, In the Company of Men, Magnolia, Mary Poppins, Your Friends and Neighbors.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 29 December 2005 09:20 (twenty years ago)

Funny. I was pondering to rescue it via DVD on boxing day, but then people started to come around home for a drink and postponed the plan for some more lonely winter evening.

The tent.

― olenska (olenska), Thursday, 29 December 2005 09:21 (twenty years ago)

alvy singer was rich?

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Thursday, 29 December 2005 09:26 (twenty years ago)

are you kidding?

― j blount (papa la bas), Thursday, 29 December 2005 09:31 (twenty years ago)

From my point of view, yes. You could probably add to the list every post-Annie Hall Woody Allen movie set in the present day.

(x-post)

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 29 December 2005 09:32 (twenty years ago)

Note: some of these are among my favourite movies, but as far as class identification goes, the main characters are far from my universe.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 29 December 2005 09:35 (twenty years ago)

rich white folks can be sad too :(

― AaronK (AaronK), Thursday, 29 December 2005 14:09 (twenty years ago)

Great, now you have me thinking of Donald Trump singing a fucking Bright Eyes song.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 29 December 2005 14:16 (twenty years ago)

Great, now you have me thinking of Donald Trump fucking Conor Oberst.

― Lars and Jagger (Ex Leon), Thursday, 29 December 2005 15:00 (twenty years ago)

that has to be better than thinking of watching this movie again.

― jed_ (jed), Thursday, 29 December 2005 15:18 (twenty years ago)

You'll have to make the experience happen and report back.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 29 December 2005 15:19 (twenty years ago)

Wes Anderson is in the top 3 for most influential amongst youth culture in the 1/2 half of the naughts.

― Adam Bruneau (oliver8bit), Thursday, 29 December 2005 17:42 (twenty years ago)

(which is why everybody hates teenagers)

chaki otm

― remy (x Jeremy), Thursday, 29 December 2005 17:45 (twenty years ago)

three years pass...

didn't love this at all, but it seems more and more like it's regarded as a classic

― surm, Monday, 29 June 2009 19:28 (sixteen years ago)

i'm not an anderson fan but i like this movie.

― Death of a Pitchman (latebloomer), Monday, 29 June 2009 19:31 (sixteen years ago)

whatta thread title.

― call all destroyer, Monday, 29 June 2009 19:32 (sixteen years ago)

I think Criterion putting this out on DVD has made sure that it will be regarded as a classic.

I loved it when it came out, care for it less these days, and now think Darjeeling Limited is much better

― akm, Monday, 29 June 2009 19:38 (sixteen years ago)

They do every Wes Anderson pic, tho.

― baleen, the krill queen (Abbott), Monday, 29 June 2009 19:39 (sixteen years ago)

does that mean that EVERY.......

― call all destroyer, Monday, 29 June 2009 19:43 (sixteen years ago)

They're classics waiting to happen.

― My name is Kenny! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 29 June 2009 19:44 (sixteen years ago)

we have no one but wes anderson to blame for away we go. and juno. and little miss sunshine. and napoleon dynamite. and...

― j.m. goatse (bug), Monday, 29 June 2009 19:46 (sixteen years ago)

haha yeah i saw this thread title and thought "god, the past really is another country"

― thomp, Monday, 29 June 2009 19:47 (sixteen years ago)

didn't love this at all, but it seems more and more like it's regarded as a classic

Really? It seems to me its faded into comparative obscurity (compared, that is, to its enthralled reception as the FOLLOW UP TO RUSHMORE back in 2001, et al).

― bad crack (Eric H.), Monday, 29 June 2009 19:52 (sixteen years ago)

i guess i just never realized the extent to which people herald it. at the time (i think i saw it in the theater), it seemed to me to be confused in its ambition. i think i found it too quirky, which i guess is precisely why the people who LOVE it love it... in any event, i don't really feel like giving it another go.

― surm, Monday, 29 June 2009 20:14 (sixteen years ago)

one year passes...

"C'mon let's shag ass..."

― piscesx, Thursday, 8 July 2010 02:50 (fifteen years ago)

one year passes...

I watched this for the first time in early 2005. Then again in perhaps September 2007, and again with director's commentary and extras.

Just watched again, and had a strong feeling that it improves with repeat viewing. I think I grasped it tonight at a level I didn't before. It felt more natural and unified than I thought it was. The story of the family came together for me as it maybe hadn't. Still funny in its largely mild way, also.

I also thought - people like Gwyneth Paltrow in this, don't they - but they don't like her in other things - do they?

― the pinefox, Monday, 10 October 2011 23:50 (fourteen years ago)

my fave film pretty much ever. and yeah Paltrow rocks in it.

― piscesx, Monday, 10 October 2011 23:52 (fourteen years ago)

it bears repeated viewing, certainly.

i don't like gwyneth in this, but the role suits her very well, perhaps? Do like her in other stuff though.

― at-zing-two-boards (darraghmac), Monday, 10 October 2011 23:56 (fourteen years ago)

Saw Wes A introduce this at a midnight screening ten years ago at NYFF. Have only seen it once since, and think it's... pretty good. The Stiller-Hackman dynamic works best, Luke Wilson's and Paltrow's characters are the weak links.

― incredibly middlebrow (Dr Morbius), Monday, 10 October 2011 23:57 (fourteen years ago)

Eli: [reading part of his newest novel at a press conference] The crickets and the rust-beetles scuttled among the nettles of the sage thicket. "Vámonos, amigos," he whispered, and threw the busted leather flintcraw over the loose weave of the saddlecock. And they rode on in the friscalating dusklight.

― The sham nation of Israel should be destroyed. (Princess TamTam), Tuesday, 11 October 2011 00:42 (fourteen years ago)

theprologue

― Rory's new misogynist car (Gukbe), Tuesday, 11 October 2011 00:49 (fourteen years ago)

Paltrow was a better Sylvia Plath here than in her own Plath biopic.

― lumber up, limbaugh down (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 11 October 2011 00:50 (fourteen years ago)

haha that eli part is amazing

― just sayin, Tuesday, 11 October 2011 14:42 (fourteen years ago)

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