Rank the Indiana Jones Canon

I call for an instant ban for anyone who votes Young Indy.

ATari 2600 game

yeah the Temple of Doom arcade game ruled

I call for an instant ban for anyone who votes Young Indy.

We should put that in the FAQ

ATari 2600 game

Ah, bullshit...Total Pitfall ripoff.

I'm voting for Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis.

an Indiana Jones ripoff poll might be intersting.

wuzzat 80s tv show?
Tales of the Brass Monkey???

The Temple of Doom campaign trail starts here.

Was the Atlantis thing a comic book?

Adventure Game

raiders, i mean, no question. gotta be raiders. whatever you have to say in defense of temple of doom, it's still got kate capshaw.

also let's just call it raiders of the lost ark, not the revisionist title.

Yeah, what the hell B.L.A.M.

Last Crusade

also let's just call it raiders of the lost ark, not the revisionist title.

Fair point. I stand rerevised.

You should call it "Episode IV: A New Hope"

wuzzat 80s tv show?
Tales of the Brass Monkey???

tales of the golden monkey, which was much better than that Fake Indy p.o.s. with Richard Chamberlain and those up-side down hanging natives who just thought the world was more interesting that way. lol.

raiders of the lost ark is great in ways that the other movies don't even try to repeat. i like the relative seriousness with which the ark and religious history is taken, the ways in which spielberg creates this vague sense of unease w/r/t the quest, like how some disturbance is being created. the jokey bullshit isn't insulting and sallah and marcus brody are actually a couple of sharp, interesting characters (who somehow turned into buffoons in last crusade).

its interesting how different the first 3 actually are (havent seen the new one yet) -- last crusade is essentially a comedy, & was my favorite as a kid, but raiders is funny while still being a top-notch globetrotting adventure movie. its sort of bizarrely the only indy movie where they really got it just right. i wish the opening sequence of temple of doom was included in that one like ive heard it was supposed to be, cuz thats the best part of ToD too.

maybe the most underrated scene in the whole series is the one at the beginning of raiders after indy swipes the idol & is being chased to his plane by about 1000 natives bent on killing him, & his pilot upon seeing this takes about 5 seconds to decide between starting the plane up or reeling in the fish he's caught.

raiders of the lost ark is great in ways that the other movies don't even try to repeat. i like the relative seriousness with which the ark and religious history is taken, the ways in which spielberg creates this vague sense of unease w/r/t the quest, like how some disturbance is being created. the jokey bullshit isn't insulting and sallah and marcus brody are actually a couple of sharp, interesting characters (who somehow turned into buffoons in last crusade).

-- omar little, Wednesday, May 28, 2008 5:06 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

otm, but the marcus stuff in crusade is pretty funny... that one cut-away joke is so classic

ending of raiders... both the melty-faces and of course the warehouse shot are beyondddddd classic

i think all the jokes in LC are classic, but they do render the movie a slapstick comedy at its core

the ways in which spielberg creates this vague sense of unease w/r/t the quest

Yeah, this is pretty much key. I mumbled this on an older thread:

...one thing that's great about the Ark is that its powers are implied or uncertain most of the time. People know what it IS but everyone's guessing about what it can DO, and that makes the unexpectedness of the ending all the more unsettling. That and it's flat out gruesome as well -- but one of the most effective things about the death of Belloq is that while we see him looking in horror at something within the Ark after the angels change to skeletons, we never see exactly what it is (and the only view of what is in the Ark a bit earlier is equally peculiar, seeming to show clouds and smoke rising up from impossible depths).

And comparing to Temple:

But contrast the more elaborate set of the temple and how it's handled -- and one huge problem of that set it that it never stops SEEMING like a set -- with the mysterious shadows and ominous music of the Well of Souls in Raiders, and the exquisite way the Ark is slowly revealed. John Williams's pretty pedestrian 'tribal' music and the big muscle guys with the Shankara Stones just all seems more like something fit for the Allan Quatermain knockoffs that Golan/Globus did the following two years. And there's nothing as flat out weird and uncomfortable as the sudden edit between the scene of the Ark burning off the Nazi insignia to the silent ship bedroom, or the first sudden recurrence of the Ark 'pulse' in the climactic Raiders sequence.

thats pretty interesting stuff to me because the idea of the ark as mystery is one thats never crossed my mind - the faces melting, etc was i think received wisdom for me by the time i saw raiders (or at least, by the time i have a memory of seeing it). thats an element thats totally lost on me & probably lots of other people.

The film sets up the sense of mystery pretty well -- as omar noted, Marcus and Sallah are sharp, interesting characters, and both of them specifically deliver different but parallel 'are you SURE this is a good idea?' sentiments that underscore their own ambivalence. They help/provide moral support/wish they could be there (in Marcus's case) but they're nowhere near as gung-ho.

i really do like 'last crusade' a lot (and 'temple of doom' to a lesser extent), but i think going for the slapstick stuff made LC a little more run-of-the-mill, but then again i think spielberg's methods changed between '81 and '89.

last crusade is like the only action movie that manages to be really, really funny without giving up thrillpower.

i also like raiders best cuz it's the most jewish haha! good for a young slocki

ya and what jordan said: watching it again i was surprised how packed it was with amazing set pieces

(crusade. which i also resented at the time for going all christian)

haha

I still feel like "Raiders" should have won Best Movie.

yeah see, that sounds like raiders to me -- basically a remarkable sequence of extraordinary action setpieces. what sticks to my mind about crusade are the funny bits.

xp totally, what did?

Chariots of Fire

oh, jeez

Indiana Jones and the Chariots of Fire would have been funny though.

Indy slow charging down a beach, Vangelis in the background...

"Waaaaaa-WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA..."

1. First few minutes of Raiders
2. All the rest of it, wtf, get away from me with that crap

Indy versus the one Scottish runner in the bar scene.

"You wanna talk to God?"

"But I talk to him every day! Especially on Sunday!"

1. First few minutes of Raiders
2. All the rest of it, wtf, get away from me with that crap

-- Rock Hardy

this is just bizarre since the first few minutes of raiders encapsulates everything the movies are about. explain?

Sallah has that terrible line in Last Crusade, referring to Brody (I think) trapped in the Nazi tank, designed to show what an illiterate brown-skinner is, that a friend and I snicker over: "He's in the belly of that steel beast!"

*what an illiterate brown-skinner HE is

Nah, that shows he's a poet!

yeah that was cringey xp

Oh cringey, sure. But not racist. Racist is the camel-theif stuff.

last crusade also classic for "it belongs in a MUSEUM" which is a funny line to say about anything all the time.

if you want cringey racist may i direct you to temple of doom

this is just bizarre since the first few minutes of raiders encapsulates everything the movies are about. explain?

That's why it's in first place and all the rest of it is in 2nd place. Fun to watch the first few minutes, but not to watch it repeated 25X. BORING.

The plot point in ROTLA that bothered me most was that you're never told why and how it occurs to Indy not to look at the Ark once it's open. Otherwise omar little and Ned OTM.

However, I'll defend The Temple of Doom as the closest Spielberg came in the series to recreating the absurdity of those Saturday afternoon adventures he loved.

The most evocative scenes are the ones where people are talking about the Ark, especially the "radio" bit but also that early Marcus stuff, Rhys-Davies talking about how maybe it's not meant to be found, etc. It's basically the Maltese Falcon, we get to understand what kind of people these are by how they talk about this thing that they're all trying to get their hands on.

I learned recently that the coathanger gag was actually something Spielberg had wanted to use - maybe even shot - with Christopher Lee in 1941 and was glad to have another chance at. It's a good gag!

speaking of Rhys-Davies, he sure was dumbed down into a cartoon Arab by The Last Crusade eh

Yeah, that's one of that movie's bigger sins.

Watched Temple of Doom on Bluray last night... What P Kael said.

Really, I'm fine w/ Kate Capshaw except they made her say "I broke a nail" twice; that was lazy.

That extended escape/chase/cliffhanger in the last 30 mins is just the best can-you-top-this sequence of its kind.

also, I shed a tear when Short Round snapped Indy out of the black sleep.

yeah, that sequence has always stuck with me, mainly cuz my dad looked kinda like harrison ford when i was young

watching indy turn evil was like watching dad turn to the dark side - way more traumatic to my young mind than the heart-ripping scenes

"Gimme your hat."
"Why?"
"Cuz I'm gonna puke in it."

I don't think "puke" was in '30s American lexicon but whatevs.

Merriam-Webster:

First Known Use: 1601

wait, Rhys-Davies wasn't a cartoon Arab in Raiders?

at least he was a digger and knew history (and looked like he lived well as a result)

Merriam-Webster:

First Known Use: 1601

"Bad dates!"

I don't think these movies are critic proof (especially 2 and 4) but everything wrong with 1 & 3 is a beauty spot, not a wart.

also, I shed a tear when Short Round snapped Indy out of the black sleep.

― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius)

Yes, always.

"What's that?"
"Antidote."
"To what?"
"To the poison you just drank, Doctor Jones!"

the "Anything Goes" sequence is a tour de force.

never 4get:

https://media.giphy.com/media/HdnaJJKDRVeh2/giphy.gif

Last Crusade starts off great then veers into serious corniness by the time they get on the blimp.

Then again ROTLA is pretty much my ideal of the perfect adventure film: no fat, beautifully shot and scored, great cast, hella fun.

chilled monkey brains

it's not an adventure film, CJV, it's a pastiche of one

Says you

yeah, Morbs, there is no way to prefer one over the other. I can sympathize with arguments that TOD is the more pneumatic chapter.

Morbs, how do you rate /King Solomon's Mines/?

I honestly don't remeber ever seeing it, tho the title crossed my mind during the Doom mine scenes.

I checked it out from the library a couple months ago. IMHO it's overall horrible with some really dicey material in terms of race, zero chemistry between the leads, but a few bits of kinda charming "how do we get this across on the budget we've got?" stuff. So overall, might be more worth your time than Octopussy, especially given where you come down on TOD.

i'll see it, how bad can it be with D Kerr

maybe Casino means the '85 one with Sharon Stone.

oh, the horror

very definitely meant the '85 one. is romancing the stone the only halfway decent raiders knock-off? dial down the action, dial up the romantic comedy stuff... good idea really.

the first Mummy movie w Brendan Fraser is p good

I would not see Raiders knockoffs if i wasnt crazy about Raiders

forgot all about mummy. yeah that's fun, despite some unfortunate CGI.

(as Kael pointed out in her review of Young Sherlock Holmes, it had a similar cult plot a year after ToD)

I've seen chunks of the Cyndi Lauper/Jeff Goldblum flop Vibes, and it sure looked like it was borrowing a lot from Raiders or Romancing but substances were involved and honestly I couldn't describe a single specific element of the film. Might be great though!

I saw Vibes and liked it OK. Peter Falk too. From the writers of Splash and other Opie movies.

srsly Dr C, you knew there was a 1950 Oscar-winning King Solomon's Mines, right? I had forgotten there wa sone in the '30s with Paul Robeson.

My pre-WWII Hollywood knowledge is pretty skimpy tbh! I've filled in a few gaps in the last year or so - actually watched most of A Day At The Races last night. But no, I didn't know about that one.

well '50 is after WWII :)

I did notice that the ToD script was by Huyck & Katz, the writers of American Graffiti and Howard the Duck.

(a husband & wife team)

Oh duh. The two movies you posted about got scrambled into one in my brain.

i loved the 80s Kings Solomon's Mines. 8yo me was absolutely in love with Sharon Stone, who gets put through the ringer doing the best old-school damsel in distress thing that was annoying in TOD. it's absurd and OTT but KSM is really really pulpy. the setting is WW1 rather than WW2 but they don't hesitate to do things like have the bad guys listening to Ride of the Valkyries on a Victrola. the imperialist racism is pretty up-front, like the bad guys talking about these "savages", etc, it definitely feels like they just filmed a 19th century adventure book. in many ways the lower budget takes on the serial revivals succeeded in more closely mimicking their source material than the big budget counterparts. also see Starcrash/Star Wars.

Richard Chamberlain was a pretty decent Indy knock-off, he pulled off that classic Errol Flynn-style laughing adventurer guy smile. there was a great scene where he used his feet to hitch a ride on a train that my dad always hated cos it was too unrealistic. the sequel, Lost City of Gold, is far worse (the guy playing the mock Indian guru is pretty bad) although it does feature James Earl Jones walking around with a giant axe.

Raiders is the best of all these imo. the soundtrack is really great and helps to sell the mysticism of everything. the world-building is great, and we get the sense that Indy has been at this a while and there are these supporting characters all doing the same, with Belloq, Marion, and the off-screen father (who was ruined in KOTCS.) "He's become obsessed with the occult!" that whole bit where they are talking in the beginning with Indy about what the ark is and going into the history a little is just great. imo Raiders has the perfect mix of seriousness and silliness, pratfall action and spooky ancient mysteries. Marion gets a bit screechy by the end but that intro in the Nepalese bar she runs where she wins the drinking game is pretty rad.

i loved the 80s Kings Solomon's Mines.

the imperialist racism is pretty up-front, like the bad guys talking about these "savages", etc

i gotta be honest i'm having some trouble reconciling these two comments

Kings Solomon's Mines is an 1885 adventure book, but I suspect the '80s version was only semi-faithful.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Solomon%27s_Mines

http://www.theraider.net/information/influences/king_solomons_mines_1950.php

usually the bad guys in these types of movies don't hold back. also see the Nazis in Indy films.

i quoted too much of the second comment there - should have left off the part about bad guys

from what i remember of seeing king solomon's mines a couple of years ago, the way it presents the (ahem) 'natives' would be pretty icky regardless of what the bad guys said about them

yeah i wholeheartedly agree there. the cannibals chanting around the giant human-size bowl is straight out of the Jungle Hunt videogame (or any cartoon ever). western pop culture is a landmine of problematic tropes. its possible to reconcile that (or even use it as a learning experience) and still enjoy the spectacle.

My family went to see Allan Quartermain and the Lost City of Gold at the cinema because my mom thought it would be like Indiana Jones. We all left angry.

lol

According to Rotten Tomatoes, the film has received two positive and one negative review

The two positive reviews were from Golan and Globus.

Marion deserves better.

"HAD AN AFFAIR WITH HER WHEN SHE WAS ELEVEN." 🤮

(George Lucas, Stephen Spielberg, and Lawrence Kasdan brainstorming Marion's character in Indiana Jones) pic.twitter.com/4pX00CLwSL

— Men Write Women (@menwritewomen) July 28, 2020

why does everything have to be terrible, jesus christ

nooooo D:

Fantastic piece on Last Crusade: https://www.brightwalldarkroom.com/2021/11/05/dont-call-me-junior-indiana-jones/