what are barack obama's flaws?

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serious question

and what, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:23 (eight years ago) Permalink

arrogance

elmo argonaut, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:26 (eight years ago) Permalink

i was looking at these synopses of all the right wing anti-clinton books & thinking damn i actually agree with all the personal clinton armchair psychology stuff - dishonesty, lack of principle, general cowardice. at the time (i was like 10) i didnt believe that shit, just thought it was partisan & desperate - basically true i guess - but switched my understanding of clinton up after i read the shitty hitchens book, and now after the the obama stuff in the primaries most liberals agree with right-wing/national review types about this shit. so when obama becomes president are there any character flaws we'll look back on in 10-15 years and think man the republicans were actually right about that? is this genuinely different?

and what, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:28 (eight years ago) Permalink

too handsome

jhøshea, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:29 (eight years ago) Permalink

Scary name.

Oilyrags, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:30 (eight years ago) Permalink

faith in his friends

deeznuts, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:31 (eight years ago) Permalink

Not that I give a shit, but a 'flaw' in terms of some people think it's a reason to be suspicious of him.

Oilyrags, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:31 (eight years ago) Permalink

too black, too strong.

jim, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:31 (eight years ago) Permalink

^ beat me to it

sleep, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:32 (eight years ago) Permalink

ok oily but we arent going to look back in 10 years and be like this guy was actually only okay. if only his name was jim scott. the point of this thread isn't "why won't racist people vote for him"

J0rdan S., Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:33 (eight years ago) Permalink

you guys are missing the point

J0rdan S., Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:33 (eight years ago) Permalink

haha rly

sleep, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:34 (eight years ago) Permalink

poor bowling form

sleep, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:34 (eight years ago) Permalink

overconfidence in the electorate's willingness to assume civic responsibility

elmo argonaut, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:35 (eight years ago) Permalink

probably has a clogged pore or two

dan m, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:35 (eight years ago) Permalink

In that case, all this 'bipartisanship' talk makes me worry he'll let the plutocrats walk all over him in the name of unity. It's too early to tell, of course. The problem is, I'm guilty of being a little star struck by the dude and his speeches and advisors and stuff, so I'm probably missing important defects. So maybe that's a flaw, too.

Oilyrags, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:37 (eight years ago) Permalink

too cool

jhøshea, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:37 (eight years ago) Permalink

yeah, basically

Oilyrags, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:37 (eight years ago) Permalink

Born in the wrong country at the wrong time.

Both Hillary and McCain would be "good" Presidents, especially in comparison to the current Commander-In-Chief, but neither of them are in the same league as Obama.

Oh yeah, he's also an elitist, as the children of single moms tend to be.

j-rock, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:38 (eight years ago) Permalink

Wife seems like a dick.

paulhw, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:39 (eight years ago) Permalink

Better writer than every single last one of his critics and most of his supporters.

Dave Matthews endorsement.

Trick move in pickup b-ball is to fake to the right, plow in hard to the left. No symbolism there at all.

suzy, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:41 (eight years ago) Permalink

i actually wish people would take this thread seriously; i didnt realize it wasnt about electability & i think the answer is probably the same either way (we dont know yet), but even tho im behind the guy 100% & have been for months my gut says myself & probably a lot of people here are gonna be dissatisfied with him 4-8 years down the road. a discussion of concrete reasons why this might be so seems worthwhile to me

deeznuts, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:42 (eight years ago) Permalink

foreign policy naivete. biggest thing that worries me about him by far. if he gets elected, pulls us out of iraq, closes gitmo, and restores civil liberties to their pre-9/11 status, and then ta-da something actually blows up, how many times is he going to say "uh um" during the press conference in which he capitulates to the chickenhawks in both parties screaming for his head

El Tomboto, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:45 (eight years ago) Permalink

thank u deeznuts i am serious about like actual clintonesque character defects not more empty lolz how everybody except us is superficial & racist

and what, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:45 (eight years ago) Permalink

what elmo and tom said, basically--the dude comes across as too trusting in america's ability to be smart about shit

max, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:48 (eight years ago) Permalink

not good at speaking for 10 second clips on the 6 o clock news

Catsupppppppppppppp dude 茄蕃, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:48 (eight years ago) Permalink

hard to say but i think he believes his own hype at this point

messiah complex (likely to evolve into martyr complex)

elmo argonaut, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:50 (eight years ago) Permalink

yeah what max/tombot/elmo said fourthed.

Hurting 2, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:51 (eight years ago) Permalink

might not be able to tame congress and end up like Clinton in 1994

Catsupppppppppppppp dude 茄蕃, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:54 (eight years ago) Permalink

Also a bit of what deez said - I'm worried he's setting himself up to disappoint everyone.

Hurting 2, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:54 (eight years ago) Permalink

has convinved people like me to be largely uninterested in this question

gabbneb, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:55 (eight years ago) Permalink

He has a bit of this tendency to come off like "I fully understand this problem because I've read many essays about it." Which makes me like him and wince at the same time.

Hurting 2, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:57 (eight years ago) Permalink

if he gets elected, pulls us out of iraq, closes gitmo, and restores civil liberties to their pre-9/11 status, and then ta-da something actually blows up, how many times is he going to say "uh um" during the press conference in which he capitulates to the chickenhawks in both parties screaming for his head

It's hard to see how staying in Iraq is helping to prevent domestic terrorism. Even McCain wants to close Gitmo. I doubt civil liberties will go all the way back to pre-9/11 status, and not sure if Obama is even suggesting that they should

o. nate, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:58 (eight years ago) Permalink

has convinved people like me to be largely uninterested in this question

-- gabbneb, Wednesday, April 30, 2008 8:55 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

shock of shocks

deeznuts, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:04 (eight years ago) Permalink

what elmo and tom said, basically--the dude comes across as too trusting in america's ability to be smart about shit

-- max, Wednesday, April 30, 2008 8:48 PM (16 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

i really want to believe this is true, but it sounds the kind of bs that be lipped by his supporters - his flaw is that he's TOO right about everything? ill take that.

deeznuts, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:07 (eight years ago) Permalink

foreign policy naivete. biggest thing that worries me about him by far. if he gets elected, pulls us out of iraq, closes gitmo, and restores civil liberties to their pre-9/11 status, and then ta-da something actually blows up, how many times is he going to say "uh um" during the press conference in which he capitulates to the chickenhawks in both parties screaming for his head

-- El Tomboto, Wednesday, April 30, 2008 4:45 PM (22 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

this is more lol gwb put u in a jackpot sry!

jhøshea, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:09 (eight years ago) Permalink

i am really curious as to what hes gonna do w/the gitmo dudes who we have evidence against thats inadmissible due to torture tho

jhøshea, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:10 (eight years ago) Permalink

i wonder about his ability/willingness to get his hands dirty and wrestle things to the ground. saying you're willing to talk to iran/hamas/whoever is all well and good, but if you go into those situations you have to go in saying, "here's the deal: you can get this and this, you can't get this and this, and we're going to have to fight about this and this -- but if the fight goes on too long, you get nothing." the bushies have been terrible at that stuff, so it's not like the bar is set particularly high, but it would be nice to have someone who can actually get some things done. (wouldn't have to be him personally, but he'd need some hardball players around who knew how to do that.) (same applies in dealing with congress, obviously.)

tipsy mothra, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:11 (eight years ago) Permalink

deex -- i didn't say he's overly correct, but i think he may be presumptuous that America will be eager or grateful about implementing the changes he wants

elmo argonaut, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:12 (eight years ago) Permalink

also I am dead serious that his uh um uh tic that he has when you can tell he's thinking on his feet is really not reassuring at all

El Tomboto, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:13 (eight years ago) Permalink

he actually comes across as a guy who would be an absolute expert at that kind of stuff to me tipsy

deeznuts, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:13 (eight years ago) Permalink

yah he def should cut that out xp

jhøshea, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:14 (eight years ago) Permalink

nodding slowly and looking thoughtful is the way to go

jhøshea, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:15 (eight years ago) Permalink

his uh um uh tic that he has when you can tell he's thinking on his feet

this doesn't bother me so much -- it's campaign season and he has to be excruciatingly calculating about his diction. when he speaks off the cuff he gets in trouble, but really only because he running for office

elmo argonaut, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:15 (eight years ago) Permalink

or alternatively quit being so optimistic about your fellow humans that you keep getting surprised by shit, like Wright dropping an atom bomb on you on national television

El Tomboto, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:16 (eight years ago) Permalink

xp Still, I think Hillary is a better extemporaneous speaker.

jaymc, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:17 (eight years ago) Permalink

his almost musical hand-gesture of 'conducting' a discussion / 'putting a fine point' on an argument

it's like the new bubba remote

elmo argonaut, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:17 (eight years ago) Permalink

I don't think Tom's point is that Obama is going to cause terrorism to happen, just that when it does he's going to look bad.

Hurting 2, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:18 (eight years ago) Permalink

you guys all seem to think obama waaaaaaaaay less pragmatic than i do, i guess

deeznuts, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:18 (eight years ago) Permalink

I actually HOPE he's more cynical and pragmatic than I'm giving him credit for.

Hurting 2, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:19 (eight years ago) Permalink

wtf is going on here

illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Monday, 16 May 2016 14:35 (three months ago) Permalink

four weeks pass...

I think he's been a good president overall, would take a third term. Still something rubs me the wrong way about his hemmy-hawy answers to questions, like when he's trying to sound folksy and intellectual at the same time and his voice gets all caught up in his nose and jaw. I think he has a touch of the same "insincere" quality that Hillary has worse, and this may contribute to the right's dislike of him, though there are more obvious reasons why the right dislikes him. The only thing GWB was really any good at was seeming like himself.

socka flocka-jones (man alive), Monday, 13 June 2016 15:46 (two months ago) Permalink

late examples may also just be a sign of the fatigue of the presidency, perhaps a touch of mild depression or a feeling of having to go through the motions.

socka flocka-jones (man alive), Monday, 13 June 2016 15:47 (two months ago) Permalink

yes he seems increasingly more weary and beaten down with every shooting. which is kind of what I would want in a President. I do think he's been a great president. I am frustrated by the lack of progress in some respects but I think he's done what he could given how much internal opposition he faces on basically everything he tries to do, I've never seen anything like it.

frogbs, Monday, 13 June 2016 15:56 (two months ago) Permalink

i'm confused and upset by his immigration enforcement actions and the fucking drone strikes, i don't get how it squares with what he says he wants to achieve in the world

illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Monday, 13 June 2016 16:08 (two months ago) Permalink

I think he sees himself as a logical centrist, and therefore drone strikes to him are a middle ground between sending troops in which could result in more deaths to both civilians and US troops; and doing nothing which, while keeping the US from being involved with directly killing civilians, will allow extremists to terrorize and kill civilians and others around the world

curmudgeon, Monday, 13 June 2016 18:45 (two months ago) Permalink

I don't think drone strikes and immigration enforcement are things he has to square!

The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 13 June 2016 18:46 (two months ago) Permalink

But I think he would make an argument for it squaring with what he wants to achieve in the world, if he had too

curmudgeon, Monday, 13 June 2016 18:50 (two months ago) Permalink

yeah, the video that prompted my post was also very much in that "logical, reasonable middle ground" style, where he first bent every which way to assure the audience no one wanted to take their guns, then brought in an appeal to facts and data and science and an analogy about cars and various car-related policies (drivers' licenses, airbags, etc.), and finally expressed that a sensible regime could be created of letting all the hunters and sportsmen and self-defenders keep the guns they like while getting them out of the wrong hands. Hard to argue with, but a little bit lacking in feeling.

socka flocka-jones (man alive), Monday, 13 June 2016 18:51 (two months ago) Permalink

If nothing else Obama is definitely the funniest president we've had in my lifetime

frogbs, Monday, 13 June 2016 21:09 (two months ago) Permalink

that event is the ur-moment of trump's candidacy; you can see him seething with resentment (he even starts rocking back and forth) as obama mocks him

wizzz! (amateurist), Monday, 13 June 2016 21:16 (two months ago) Permalink

I'd point it to the moment where Obama says, "all kidding aside, obviously we all know about your credentials and breadth of experience..." and the audience cracks up, clearly he's thinking "I'll show them all"

frogbs, Monday, 13 June 2016 21:20 (two months ago) Permalink

it gives a new literalness to he phrase 'politics of resentment'

wizzz! (amateurist), Monday, 13 June 2016 21:21 (two months ago) Permalink

two weeks pass...

sure he has flaws, but i still think he's probably the most 'normal' and certainly the most decent president we've had in a long time.

maybe this is an indictment of american democracy or just of the limits of my imagination, but i just can't see this country at its present state electing anyone better at the job than him.

wizzz! (amateurist), Sunday, 3 July 2016 07:51 (one month ago) Permalink

oops, i had meant to share that with this article/link

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/03/us/politics/obama-after-dark-the-precious-hours-alone.html

wizzz! (amateurist), Sunday, 3 July 2016 07:52 (one month ago) Permalink

yeah i liked that article a lot

oddly related to this line about the night: "it's smaller. it lets you think."

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Sunday, 3 July 2016 09:38 (one month ago) Permalink

can you imagine 7 years with a maximum 5 hours of sleep a night? jesus.

wizzz! (amateurist), Sunday, 3 July 2016 10:05 (one month ago) Permalink

is he the first president in decades who cares so much about the prose of speeches and actually writes many of those speeches himself?

The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 3 July 2016 11:19 (one month ago) Permalink

probably -- i don't know much about carter, but i can't imagine him being quite so detail oriented.

obama's obviously brilliant, and a better writer than i am obviously, but he's not a great speechwriter IMO. when giving proper speeches, he seldom has the quality of pith, and i can't think of many phrases in his speeches that are particularly memorable. the phrase "the soft bigotry of low expectations" that some hack put in GWB's mouth is more memorable than anything BHO has said... it's got assonance, a nice rhythm, parallelism....

wizzz! (amateurist), Sunday, 3 July 2016 12:08 (one month ago) Permalink

I forgot that in the first few years Reagan wrote many of the big speeches.

The clarity of the Jeremiah Wright kiss-off was a tonic.

The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 3 July 2016 12:13 (one month ago) Permalink

horrifying revive

'decent' my ass

helpless before THRILLARY (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 3 July 2016 15:36 (one month ago) Permalink

Morbius who are your top ten presidents

ogmor, Sunday, 3 July 2016 15:56 (one month ago) Permalink

Dylan
Dylan
Dylan...

6 god none the richer (m bison), Sunday, 3 July 2016 15:59 (one month ago) Permalink

I want to be open to the idea that the approach taken with Al Qaeda and ISIS has been a calculation relative to the amount of death of suffering that's been possible. Maybe I should be, but I'm still not entirely convinced that the offensive approach taken ultimately results in more death and suffering than what is possible if they are left alone.

timellison, Sunday, 3 July 2016 16:35 (one month ago) Permalink

I guess that's true of the initial impulse to defend that city in Libya than initially got us into that conflict, regardless of what ended up happening.

timellison, Sunday, 3 July 2016 16:40 (one month ago) Permalink

I guess that's *also* true, I meant to say

timellison, Sunday, 3 July 2016 16:41 (one month ago) Permalink

horrifying revive

'decent' my ass

― helpless before THRILLARY (Dr Morbius), Sunday, July 3, 2016 10:36 AM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

jeez, what took you so long?

wizzz! (amateurist), Monday, 4 July 2016 09:18 (one month ago) Permalink

Insight like that doesn't shoot from the hip.

Oh baby, if only you knew / Gabnebb hit a hundred-and-two (stevie), Monday, 4 July 2016 13:15 (one month ago) Permalink

i know a fucking pigshit moron who needs to die

helpless before THRILLARY (Dr Morbius), Monday, 4 July 2016 14:08 (one month ago) Permalink

Thats a terrible way to talk about steven spielberg

Οὖτις, Monday, 4 July 2016 14:25 (one month ago) Permalink

morbs transitioned from lovable crank to homicidal demagogue so gradually i barely noticed.

a basset hound (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Monday, 4 July 2016 14:37 (one month ago) Permalink

i lost a lot of respect for president obama when i found out how he stopped returning morbs's calls.

the event dynamics of power asynchrony (rushomancy), Monday, 4 July 2016 16:21 (one month ago) Permalink

"What the... It's 3 am. This better be important."

"i know a fucking pigshit moron who needs to die."

"Aw, Morbs. Didn't know it was you!"

pplains, Monday, 4 July 2016 18:07 (one month ago) Permalink

tbqh, morbs, you would be a lot more flawed as president than barry's been

a little too mature to be cute (Aimless), Monday, 4 July 2016 18:21 (one month ago) Permalink

he would dissolve the executive branch and we would live in an autarkist paradise forever

wizzz! (amateurist), Tuesday, 5 July 2016 14:14 (one month ago) Permalink

sorry to post-police but morbs "horrifying revive" would have been a totally hilarious standalone post and would have actually focused yr message but instead you went personal-attack. I am available to edit ppl's posts and my rates are reasonable

The bald Phil Collins impersonator cash grab (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Tuesday, 5 July 2016 14:47 (one month ago) Permalink

it wasn't much of an "attack"-- it was just an acknowledgment that i had indeed expected a morbs response, and that he did not disappoint. the response to that seemed like a significant escalation to me, but others may disagree.

i guess if this were a school playground--and i'm not sure it differs much from one sometimes--i would be told to simply "ignore" him. and that would be good advice! a bit harder to take after repeated "you need to die" posts though.

wizzz! (amateurist), Tuesday, 5 July 2016 14:51 (one month ago) Permalink

whatever. sorry to take up eyeball real-estate with this, people. move on.

wizzz! (amateurist), Tuesday, 5 July 2016 14:51 (one month ago) Permalink

three weeks pass...

Listening to Obama speak the other night made me feel proud to be an American. He always strikes me as a very moral and wise person, able to see how individual policies relate to a larger vision/pattern. His endorsement of Hillary made me like her more.

That said wtf is going on with these deportations? http://fusion.net/story/252637/obama-has-deported-more-immigrants-than-any-other-president-now-hes-running-up-the-score/ I think I have reconciled myself to the drones, which used to sicken me, as it's not clear to me what a "good" middle east policy would look like. But he is basically refusing refugees here -- these people are coming from nations torn apart by violence

Treeship, Friday, 29 July 2016 14:01 (four weeks ago) Permalink

Im not sure Ive even seen him address this policy

Treeship, Friday, 29 July 2016 14:02 (four weeks ago) Permalink

I do wonder if Clinton is intending to counter that policy but doesn't want to position herself against Obama at this point in time. She seemed to hammer home her intention to curb mass deportations in her speech last night. But, yes, it's fucked up (particularly since there are reported instances of deportees being murdered upon returning to their home countries) and I hope that she sees that.

a charisma-free shitlord (Old Lunch), Friday, 29 July 2016 14:16 (four weeks ago) Permalink

i hope she stops it but why hasnt obama? Does he really just not care about these people?

Treeship, Friday, 29 July 2016 14:21 (four weeks ago) Permalink

1. explain that laws are dumb and should be changed
2. get shouted down
3. make executive decision to not enforce all parts of dumb laws
4. get shouted down more
5. enforce dumb laws to the very letter
6. reform vote now louder than ever

El Tomboto, Friday, 29 July 2016 20:24 (four weeks ago) Permalink

^^^

Οὖτις, Friday, 29 July 2016 20:44 (four weeks ago) Permalink

an act of political genius!

k3vin k., Friday, 29 July 2016 20:49 (four weeks ago) Permalink

for your consideration

https://theringer.com/president-obama-summer-playlist-spotify-8fd9c5696aaa#.eqlwfmkmi

j., Thursday, 11 August 2016 23:33 (two weeks ago) Permalink

i support malia obama smoking weed at coachella

Treeship, Friday, 12 August 2016 00:11 (two weeks ago) Permalink

XP thx 4 new dn

a full playlist of presidential sex jams (C. Grisso/McCain), Friday, 12 August 2016 00:42 (two weeks ago) Permalink


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