what are barack obama's flaws?

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serious question

and what, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:23 (6 years ago) Permalink

arrogance

elmo argonaut, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:26 (6 years ago) Permalink

i was looking at these synopses of all the right wing anti-clinton books & thinking damn i actually agree with all the personal clinton armchair psychology stuff - dishonesty, lack of principle, general cowardice. at the time (i was like 10) i didnt believe that shit, just thought it was partisan & desperate - basically true i guess - but switched my understanding of clinton up after i read the shitty hitchens book, and now after the the obama stuff in the primaries most liberals agree with right-wing/national review types about this shit. so when obama becomes president are there any character flaws we'll look back on in 10-15 years and think man the republicans were actually right about that? is this genuinely different?

and what, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:28 (6 years ago) Permalink

too handsome

jhøshea, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:29 (6 years ago) Permalink

Scary name.

Oilyrags, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:30 (6 years ago) Permalink

faith in his friends

deeznuts, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:31 (6 years ago) Permalink

Not that I give a shit, but a 'flaw' in terms of some people think it's a reason to be suspicious of him.

Oilyrags, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:31 (6 years ago) Permalink

too black, too strong.

jim, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:31 (6 years ago) Permalink

^ beat me to it

sleep, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:32 (6 years ago) Permalink

ok oily but we arent going to look back in 10 years and be like this guy was actually only okay. if only his name was jim scott. the point of this thread isn't "why won't racist people vote for him"

J0rdan S., Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:33 (6 years ago) Permalink

you guys are missing the point

J0rdan S., Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:33 (6 years ago) Permalink

haha rly

sleep, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:34 (6 years ago) Permalink

poor bowling form

sleep, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:34 (6 years ago) Permalink

overconfidence in the electorate's willingness to assume civic responsibility

elmo argonaut, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:35 (6 years ago) Permalink

probably has a clogged pore or two

dan m, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:35 (6 years ago) Permalink

In that case, all this 'bipartisanship' talk makes me worry he'll let the plutocrats walk all over him in the name of unity. It's too early to tell, of course. The problem is, I'm guilty of being a little star struck by the dude and his speeches and advisors and stuff, so I'm probably missing important defects. So maybe that's a flaw, too.

Oilyrags, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:37 (6 years ago) Permalink

too cool

jhøshea, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:37 (6 years ago) Permalink

yeah, basically

Oilyrags, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:37 (6 years ago) Permalink

Born in the wrong country at the wrong time.

Both Hillary and McCain would be "good" Presidents, especially in comparison to the current Commander-In-Chief, but neither of them are in the same league as Obama.

Oh yeah, he's also an elitist, as the children of single moms tend to be.

j-rock, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:38 (6 years ago) Permalink

Wife seems like a dick.

paulhw, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:39 (6 years ago) Permalink

Better writer than every single last one of his critics and most of his supporters.

Dave Matthews endorsement.

Trick move in pickup b-ball is to fake to the right, plow in hard to the left. No symbolism there at all.

suzy, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:41 (6 years ago) Permalink

i actually wish people would take this thread seriously; i didnt realize it wasnt about electability & i think the answer is probably the same either way (we dont know yet), but even tho im behind the guy 100% & have been for months my gut says myself & probably a lot of people here are gonna be dissatisfied with him 4-8 years down the road. a discussion of concrete reasons why this might be so seems worthwhile to me

deeznuts, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:42 (6 years ago) Permalink

foreign policy naivete. biggest thing that worries me about him by far. if he gets elected, pulls us out of iraq, closes gitmo, and restores civil liberties to their pre-9/11 status, and then ta-da something actually blows up, how many times is he going to say "uh um" during the press conference in which he capitulates to the chickenhawks in both parties screaming for his head

El Tomboto, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:45 (6 years ago) Permalink

thank u deeznuts i am serious about like actual clintonesque character defects not more empty lolz how everybody except us is superficial & racist

and what, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:45 (6 years ago) Permalink

what elmo and tom said, basically--the dude comes across as too trusting in america's ability to be smart about shit

max, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:48 (6 years ago) Permalink

not good at speaking for 10 second clips on the 6 o clock news

Catsupppppppppppppp dude 茄蕃, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:48 (6 years ago) Permalink

hard to say but i think he believes his own hype at this point

messiah complex (likely to evolve into martyr complex)

elmo argonaut, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:50 (6 years ago) Permalink

yeah what max/tombot/elmo said fourthed.

Hurting 2, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:51 (6 years ago) Permalink

might not be able to tame congress and end up like Clinton in 1994

Catsupppppppppppppp dude 茄蕃, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:54 (6 years ago) Permalink

Also a bit of what deez said - I'm worried he's setting himself up to disappoint everyone.

Hurting 2, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:54 (6 years ago) Permalink

has convinved people like me to be largely uninterested in this question

gabbneb, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:55 (6 years ago) Permalink

He has a bit of this tendency to come off like "I fully understand this problem because I've read many essays about it." Which makes me like him and wince at the same time.

Hurting 2, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:57 (6 years ago) Permalink

if he gets elected, pulls us out of iraq, closes gitmo, and restores civil liberties to their pre-9/11 status, and then ta-da something actually blows up, how many times is he going to say "uh um" during the press conference in which he capitulates to the chickenhawks in both parties screaming for his head

It's hard to see how staying in Iraq is helping to prevent domestic terrorism. Even McCain wants to close Gitmo. I doubt civil liberties will go all the way back to pre-9/11 status, and not sure if Obama is even suggesting that they should

o. nate, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:58 (6 years ago) Permalink

has convinved people like me to be largely uninterested in this question

-- gabbneb, Wednesday, April 30, 2008 8:55 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

shock of shocks

deeznuts, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:04 (6 years ago) Permalink

what elmo and tom said, basically--the dude comes across as too trusting in america's ability to be smart about shit

-- max, Wednesday, April 30, 2008 8:48 PM (16 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

i really want to believe this is true, but it sounds the kind of bs that be lipped by his supporters - his flaw is that he's TOO right about everything? ill take that.

deeznuts, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:07 (6 years ago) Permalink

foreign policy naivete. biggest thing that worries me about him by far. if he gets elected, pulls us out of iraq, closes gitmo, and restores civil liberties to their pre-9/11 status, and then ta-da something actually blows up, how many times is he going to say "uh um" during the press conference in which he capitulates to the chickenhawks in both parties screaming for his head

-- El Tomboto, Wednesday, April 30, 2008 4:45 PM (22 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

this is more lol gwb put u in a jackpot sry!

jhøshea, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:09 (6 years ago) Permalink

i am really curious as to what hes gonna do w/the gitmo dudes who we have evidence against thats inadmissible due to torture tho

jhøshea, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:10 (6 years ago) Permalink

i wonder about his ability/willingness to get his hands dirty and wrestle things to the ground. saying you're willing to talk to iran/hamas/whoever is all well and good, but if you go into those situations you have to go in saying, "here's the deal: you can get this and this, you can't get this and this, and we're going to have to fight about this and this -- but if the fight goes on too long, you get nothing." the bushies have been terrible at that stuff, so it's not like the bar is set particularly high, but it would be nice to have someone who can actually get some things done. (wouldn't have to be him personally, but he'd need some hardball players around who knew how to do that.) (same applies in dealing with congress, obviously.)

tipsy mothra, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:11 (6 years ago) Permalink

deex -- i didn't say he's overly correct, but i think he may be presumptuous that America will be eager or grateful about implementing the changes he wants

elmo argonaut, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:12 (6 years ago) Permalink

also I am dead serious that his uh um uh tic that he has when you can tell he's thinking on his feet is really not reassuring at all

El Tomboto, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:13 (6 years ago) Permalink

he actually comes across as a guy who would be an absolute expert at that kind of stuff to me tipsy

deeznuts, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:13 (6 years ago) Permalink

yah he def should cut that out xp

jhøshea, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:14 (6 years ago) Permalink

nodding slowly and looking thoughtful is the way to go

jhøshea, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:15 (6 years ago) Permalink

his uh um uh tic that he has when you can tell he's thinking on his feet

this doesn't bother me so much -- it's campaign season and he has to be excruciatingly calculating about his diction. when he speaks off the cuff he gets in trouble, but really only because he running for office

elmo argonaut, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:15 (6 years ago) Permalink

or alternatively quit being so optimistic about your fellow humans that you keep getting surprised by shit, like Wright dropping an atom bomb on you on national television

El Tomboto, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:16 (6 years ago) Permalink

xp Still, I think Hillary is a better extemporaneous speaker.

jaymc, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:17 (6 years ago) Permalink

his almost musical hand-gesture of 'conducting' a discussion / 'putting a fine point' on an argument

it's like the new bubba remote

elmo argonaut, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:17 (6 years ago) Permalink

I don't think Tom's point is that Obama is going to cause terrorism to happen, just that when it does he's going to look bad.

Hurting 2, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:18 (6 years ago) Permalink

you guys all seem to think obama waaaaaaaaay less pragmatic than i do, i guess

deeznuts, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:18 (6 years ago) Permalink

I actually HOPE he's more cynical and pragmatic than I'm giving him credit for.

Hurting 2, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:19 (6 years ago) Permalink

‏@DennisThePerrin
Obama justifying his authoritarian policies -- Nixon without the flop sweat.

ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 8 June 2013 03:31 (1 year ago) Permalink

george will got there already in may

da croupier, Saturday, 8 June 2013 03:48 (1 year ago) Permalink

GW is anti-infinite-surveillance huh

ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 8 June 2013 03:57 (1 year ago) Permalink

8 months pass...

ab-so-lutely nothin'

(cept Dems winning elections)

images of war violence and historical smoking (Dr Morbius), Monday, 24 February 2014 18:26 (4 months ago) Permalink

I suspect that the corporatists are so deeply entrenched in US government at this point that no power short of a cataclysm could dislodge them. No one rises to the top who would ever dream of rocking the boat.

Aimless, Monday, 24 February 2014 18:56 (4 months ago) Permalink

we'll need those boats in less than 50 years

Bryan Fairy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 24 February 2014 18:56 (4 months ago) Permalink

2 months pass...

solid summary, but leaves out how bill ayers ghostwrote soetero's books

http://thedailybanter.com/2014/04/the-story-of-barack-obama-as-told-by-conservatives/

reggie (qualmsley), Friday, 2 May 2014 10:43 (2 months ago) Permalink

Unconvincing. Not a single use of Hussein.

tsrobodo, Friday, 2 May 2014 12:07 (2 months ago) Permalink

2 weeks pass...

ghostwritten by ghost of richard nixon

balls, Thursday, 22 May 2014 17:03 (2 months ago) Permalink

jusy remember guys, WalMart is leading the way to our green future.

images of war violence and historical smoking (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 22 May 2014 17:08 (2 months ago) Permalink

not that we really need it anymore but i think this piece answers the thread title's question about as well as anything will:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-bromwich/the-leader-obama-wanted-t_b_4932145.html

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 28 May 2014 01:50 (1 month ago) Permalink

ugh reading this gives me heartache

Mordy, Wednesday, 28 May 2014 01:57 (1 month ago) Permalink

It ambles into speculative psychology in the last third but I can't quibble with the characterization of the early years, his preparedness for the job, and his use of words as mirrors. And it's true: he's overexposed, but, c'mon, Ronnie would have been all over social media.

guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 28 May 2014 02:10 (1 month ago) Permalink

i like bromwich generally. he and "leo strauss" are good go-tos for non-volkist criticism

goole, Thursday, 29 May 2014 21:04 (1 month ago) Permalink

anyway: OFA spammed me twice today about james taylor

swing and a miss, obungler

goole, Thursday, 29 May 2014 21:05 (1 month ago) Permalink

Ronnie would have been all over social media.

Ronald Reagan @thegipper - 1m
jklol #joke

Ronald Reagan @thegipper - 6m
We begin bombing in five minutes.

Ronald Reagan @thegipper - 8m
My fellow Americans, I'm pleased to tell you today that I've signed legislation that will outlaw #Russia forever.

display name changed. (amateurist), Thursday, 29 May 2014 21:08 (1 month ago) Permalink

can't even imagine what the reaction would be if a president made a crack like that now.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 29 May 2014 21:11 (1 month ago) Permalink

longest five minutes ever

display name changed. (amateurist), Thursday, 29 May 2014 21:13 (1 month ago) Permalink

"A tree's a tree. How many more do you need to look at?"

guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 29 May 2014 21:14 (1 month ago) Permalink

Contrary to popular misconception, this microphone gaffe was not broadcast over the air, but rather leaked later to the general populace. But the Tokyo newspaper Yomiuri Shimbun reported in October 1984 that the Soviet Far East Army was placed on alert after word of the statement got out, and that the alert was not withdrawn until 30 minutes later.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 29 May 2014 21:18 (1 month ago) Permalink

Ronald Reagan @thegipper - 1m
What's #AIDS? I don't have it, do you? #hilarity

(http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/12/aids-white-house-larry-speakes-joke-press-briefing-1982.html)

display name changed. (amateurist), Thursday, 29 May 2014 21:22 (1 month ago) Permalink

make that

Retweeted by Ronald Reagan
Larry Speakes @presssec - Oct. 15
What's #AIDS? I don't have it, do you?

display name changed. (amateurist), Thursday, 29 May 2014 21:25 (1 month ago) Permalink

WalMart is leading the way to our green future.

fwiw I hate Walmart with a passion, have never set foot in one etc. but their energy efficiency and renewables program really have been v forward-thinking

Οὖτις, Thursday, 29 May 2014 21:44 (1 month ago) Permalink

other bits:

Q: Governor, do you think homosexuals shoud be barred from public office in the United States?

A: Certainly they should be barred from the department of beaches and parks.

guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 29 May 2014 21:45 (1 month ago) Permalink

"We were told four years ago that 17 million people wen to bed hungry every night. Well, that was probably true. They were all on a diet."

guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 29 May 2014 21:45 (1 month ago) Permalink

In contrast to reading Ishmael Reed's interview with George Schuyler this afternoon:

http://www.policymic.com/articles/38965/ishmael-reed-all-the-demons-of-american-racism-are-rising-from-the-sewer

bamcquern, Friday, 30 May 2014 06:00 (1 month ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

"I feel real bad, but—"

classic barry

difficult listening hour, Friday, 11 July 2014 02:06 (1 week ago) Permalink

ENTER Morbius, with a grudge.

guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 11 July 2014 02:22 (1 week ago) Permalink

trivia is boring

son of a lewd monk (Dr Morbius), Friday, 11 July 2014 09:22 (1 week ago) Permalink

franklin's is dope tho

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, 11 July 2014 16:05 (1 week ago) Permalink

I need to give them another try, but I gotta admit that their appeal eluded me the one time I went. It was certainly good, but not as good as a variety of other BBQ joints in and around town that don't make you wait in line for an hour in 105-degree weather and don't run out of various items before noon.

odd proggy geezer (Moodles), Friday, 11 July 2014 16:19 (1 week ago) Permalink

i mean its no salt lick or even ruby's, but damn if i'm not tired of the NC garbage i get up here

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, 11 July 2014 16:57 (1 week ago) Permalink

The insane hype around Franklin mystifies me, but I guess I just need to try it again. I recently went to a family wedding in California and a whole bunch of people were asking me about Franklin.

I have a deep and abiding love for both Salt Lick and Ruby's. I took a college pal to Ruby's for lunch when he visited recently and the place was empty, but the food was amazing! Why don't they get more love? I guess people want something new.

odd proggy geezer (Moodles), Friday, 11 July 2014 17:37 (1 week ago) Permalink

ruby's is my fave tbh if only because its the only bbq joint to make a policy of feeding touring musicians

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, 11 July 2014 17:45 (1 week ago) Permalink

Little Saint Hugh of Lincoln (nakhchivan), Friday, 11 July 2014 23:13 (1 week ago) Permalink

hypno.......tic

cpt navajo (darraghmac), Friday, 11 July 2014 23:19 (1 week ago) Permalink

balls, Saturday, 12 July 2014 00:46 (1 week ago) Permalink

more bromwich:

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v36/n13/david-bromwich/the-worlds-most-important-spectator

pretty good rundown of how half-assed everything turns out. but in the end i don't know how this analysis differs from ron fournier.

goole, Tuesday, 15 July 2014 21:48 (1 week ago) Permalink

the specifics of his charges aside, this guy is a good writer. i especially like:

Ted Cruz, the junior senator from Texas, a graduate of Princeton and Harvard Law School, presents himself as another adoptive and grateful American of Cuban descent (though born in Canada). He bears an uncanny physical resemblance to Joe McCarthy – a clean-shaven, teetotal McCarthy, without the jowl and the after-hours squint. Cruz talks smoothly and skilfully, always in a tone of accusation: a manner that one might suppose had passed with the death of McCarthy, but nationalist rage and resentment have a melody that lingers on.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 16 July 2014 23:40 (6 days ago) Permalink

a few instances of passive voice keep this from being a real success, and I question this insistence on Obama's poor relations with congressional Dems; we'll know when the bios are published.

Something to chew on: A perilous and unspoken accord in American politics has grown up while no one was looking, which unites the liberal left and the authoritarian right. They agree in their unquestioning support of a government without checks or oversight; and it is the Obama presidency that has cemented the agreement. The state apparatus which supports wars and the weapons industry for Republicans yields welfare and expanded entitlements for Democrats. The Democrats take to the wars indifferently but are willing to accept them for what they get in return. The Republicans hate the entitlements and all that goes by the name of welfare, but they cannot escape the charge of hypocrisy when they vote for ever-enlarging military entitlements.

This sounds like it was true in 1988.

guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 16 July 2014 23:57 (6 days ago) Permalink

i'm probably overrating bromwich a bit but i feel like so much political writing these days is pitched at the same tone of apocalyptic hysteria that it's a relief to find someone saying these things in a calm and reasonable way.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 17 July 2014 00:24 (5 days ago) Permalink

a few instances of passive voice keep this from being a real success

hah this sentence was spoken in a tweedy baritone i hope

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, 17 July 2014 02:02 (5 days ago) Permalink

rubbed the corduroy off my elbow patches from leaning on table too long

guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 17 July 2014 02:04 (5 days ago) Permalink

The passive voice is no more egregious than actively attributing specific thoughts and emotions to huge, vague abstractions, such as ''most christians', 'all right-thinking people' or 'white liberals'.

frog latin (Aimless), Thursday, 17 July 2014 02:11 (5 days ago) Permalink


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