2008 Primaries Thread 2: THE QUICKENING

dmr = http://www.cas.com/uploadfiles/Logos/logo_nabisco.gif

Audio interview where Hillary claims she didn't say McCain is more qualified than Obama + YouTube clip where Hillary says McCain is more qualified than Obama:

http://donklephant.com/2008/03/13/clinton-claims-she-didnt-say-mccain-is-more-qualified-than-obama/

Boy, the internet sure does suck, doesn't it, Hillary?

Here you are caught lying about Michigan:
http://dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/3/13/11136/3289/192/475758

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120545277093135111.html?mod=opinion_main_commentaries

here we go folks

"gave the sermon at the school's Andrew Rankin Memorial Chapel in Washington on Jan. 15, 2006"

??? why now?

Is this a "hooray, our background digging team FINALLY found some indirect crap on him" moment?

That WSJ thing is CRAP (and written by some neocon). Denouncing Wright as 'paranoid' is just inappropriate armchair psychology, but also classic establishment tactic to avoid substantive issues aka "teacher, he swore."

"Mr. Obama's Trinity United Church of Christ" makes it look like he owns the place, too.

Mr. Kessler, a former Wall Street Journal and Washington Post reporter, is chief Washington correspondent of Newsmax.com

Ruddy, who serves as editor-in-chief, describes Newsmax.com as "the leading independent online news site with a conservative perspective."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newsmax

Inside The Desperate Race To Stop The Next Attack

http://www.ronaldkessler.com/

It's a pretty clumsy attempt to portray a bombastic preacher and local community figure into some sort of black Rasputin (i.e. Obama got his book's title from him, he's been Obama's mentor, Obama prayed with him before he announced his candidacy).

The closing graph that says "it raises legitimate questions" is the partisan newsroom equivalent of "hey, i'm not sayin', i'm just sayin'"

Wait, so he ISN'T a muslim after all?

NYTimes has a much more interesting piece on Obama's momma:

Kansas was merely a way station in her childhood, wheeling westward in the slipstream of her furniture-salesman father. In Hawaii, she married an African student at age 18. Then she married an Indonesian, moved to Jakarta, became an anthropologist, wrote an 800-page dissertation on peasant blacksmithing in Java, worked for the Ford Foundation, championed women’s work and helped bring microcredit to the world’s poor.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/14/us/politics/14obama.html

ObamaMama ought to inspire feminists x1000000 more than HRC does.

I have to admit I didn't know his mom's name was Stanley Ann.

suzy8080

Mr. Kessler, a former Wall Street Journal and Washington Post reporter, is chief Washington correspondent of Newsmax.com

No relation!

Boston Globe examines Clinton's claim of credit for SCHIP, discovers that the drafting legislators say that the Clinton White House initially opposed the measure:

In campaign speeches, Clinton describes the State Children's Health Insurance Program, or SCHIP, as an initiative "I helped to start." Addressing Iowa voters in November, Clinton said, "in 1997, I joined forces with members of Congress and we passed the State Children's Health Insurance Program." Clinton regularly cites the number of children in each state who are covered by the program, and mothers of sick children have appeared at Clinton campaign rallies to thank her.

But the Clinton White House, while supportive of the idea of expanding children's health, fought the first SCHIP effort, spearheaded by Senators Edward M. Kennedy, Democrat of Massachusetts, and Orrin G. Hatch, Republican of Utah, because of fears that it would derail a bigger budget bill. And several current and former lawmakers and staff said Hillary Clinton had no role in helping to write the congressional legislation, which grew out of a similar program approved in Massachusetts in 1996.

"The White House wasn't for it. We really roughed them up" in trying to get it approved over the Clinton administration's objections, Hatch said in an interview. "She may have done some advocacy (privately) over at the White House, but I'm not aware of it."

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/03/14/clinton_role_in_health_program_disputed/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNTGRL0OJWQ

(Sean Hannity is an idiot - Colmes & Rev Wright OTM)

No relation!

-- Nicole, Friday, March 14, 2008 9:32 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Link

lol how many ppl still on ilx would even know this? like 3?

incl you, fatboy

I'm just paranoid, I guess. Sorry.

The closing graph that says "it raises legitimate questions" is the partisan newsroom equivalent of "hey, i'm not sayin', i'm just sayin'"

Should've said raises new and troubling questions.

Nicole, are you related to

a) the guitarist for Interpol?
b) a guy I went to college with (I think he was from Traverse City?) who currently does improv in Portland?

Nope and nope.

I keep checking the detroit newspaper sites to see if there's any word on a new Michigan primary, but they still just have stories about Kwame and the dead stripper.

are you related to the person I work for who runs the big credit card affinity consulting company in b0st0n?

Kwame and the dead stripper

For reasons probably related to crapulence and hypocaffeination, this sounds like an ill-conceived children's book title.

actually it sounds like a hot97 news item

http://www.njs4ever.com/images/kme.jpg

i demand that the next administration somehow make itself 'featuring twista'
-- trife (...), September 10th, 2003 11:15 PM. (simon_tr)

:)

Obama aide and Bill Clinton's former senior foreign policy advisor reiterates the argument (previously released in an Obama campaign memo) that Hillary is overstating her foreign policy experience in her White House days:

The point that I am making is that her claims of the nature of that experience are overstated. The fact is she did not sit in on national security meetings. She did not have a security clearance. She did not attend meetings in the situation room. She conducted no negotiations. She did not manage any part of the national security bureaucracy. She did not have her own national security staff. That's the fact.

http://nationaljournal.com/onair/transcripts/080314_craig_greg.htm

But she was married to someone who did! And Obama wasn't! So there! Ner ner ner ner!

and she's white!

and unmale!

And it's really hard to be white, especially with an Ivy League education and your own security team.

Just like Jesse Jackson before her, she wouldn't be where she is now if she wasn't a politician. Just stating the facts.

is there an anti-excelsior thread?

sorry :-(

If Obama were white and didn't have a funny name, he'd be where he is now only with less crazy e-mail forwards going around about him.

obviously farrero's a racist dumbass but i do thank that there's something to the notion that his being the first african-american takes some of the shine from her potential to be the first woman ... why feel the obligation of history when you can pick the superior candidate

its still a retarded argument tho, because obviously there are lots of other, more significant reasons why he is where he is

http://media.gallup.com/poll/graphs/031408DailyUpdateGraph1.gif

hurrah!

aw, I'm sorry! I was just being a dick.

this weekend's Stupid Controversy will be the Wright nonsense. Limbaugh and The Corner can't shut up about it. Chris Matthews was on "The Today Show" defending Obama today.

Hooray it's looking a bit less Crick & Watson, that poll graf.

this is getting into primary fanfic territory, but i really want Obama to deliver a message that puts the victim-politics, anti-patriotism, AND funny-name memes to bed: that he <3 America like a son of a bitch because a life like his could not have occurred in any other country

it seems clear to me that his candidacy could be and should be a reminder not just of Selma and the triangle trade, but also of Ellis Island, even back to Plymouth Rock -- you know, "we were all slaves, or chance laborers, or refugees, or fortune hunters, or outcast pilgrims" etc. but then, i'm not a racist.

i've been thinking a lot about the identity game in this race, esp concerning older women's identification with HRC. i don't have any clear thought, but i liked both these pieces, about the old/young split w/in feminism:

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/michelle_goldberg/2008/03/hell_hath_no_fury.html

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080324/valenti

Dang, a real now-I-feel-old moment: I'm reading the New Yorker profile of Michelle Obama and just realized we graduated high school the same year.

^^^ obv that line of rhetoric i've sketched out is touchy to say the least, and kind of glib w/r/t to the real state of race in this country. but the idea that the extent to which he is not white = the extent to which he is not a 'real american' needs to be taken on.

xp

that Goldberg piece is really good - the "feminist = Hillary supporter" axiom reminds me of the similarly flawed "Jew = Israel supporter" fallacy. The presumption involved in both cases irritates the hell out of me.

If bill is first spouse then presumably as a former president he will be security cleared. I can't get the image out of my head of him wandering into the Situation room in his boxers t-shirt and dressing gown to dispense helpful advice.

possibly at 3am.

Somewhere a phone is rining at the white house, will Bill or Hillary get there first?

Bill's . . . preoccupied.

There's a video game in there somewhere.

Bill could be the Billy Carter of the Clinton II administration, with his own beer and everything.

obviously I am extrapolating here from an image of him lolling around the east wing eating a lot of pork rinds.

Bubba Beer

one of TPM's readers, on its home page:

The Wright time bomb appears to be detonating, now that the horse race narrative has stalled and the media needs new material. The inadequacy of Obama's response is deeply discouraging. I was very excited about Obama, but I suddenly think Wright is going to deal a death blow to him on the "electibility" front. Michelle Obama's comments and now the man who lead him to Jesus is saying "God Damn America", and all BO can say is "I disagree"? He has to thow him under the bus and then back up over him again, but it does not appear that he will. Not clear it would even help that much, given the depth and length of their relationship. Sad to say, but it's best this happen now rather than in October. As distasteful as her tactics have been, I suddenly think we may be better off in November with Hillary. Wright is cancer.

^^^bullshit

this will all blow over in a few weeks

it's going to come back in the GE.

He's got a tough decision to make about what to say, but I don't think he's said enough.

first of all, it doesn't fit into a larger narrative ("wait, I thought he was a muslim!" etc). secondly, the guy serves no role in Obama's campaign nor is he a policy advisor or anything like that. third, there's no scandal, no wrongdoing, no conflict of interest, etc. just a "crazy guy" saying "crazy things". Politicians ALWAYS have supporters that mouth off irresponsibly (any number of examples on the religious right; Ferraro haha; etc.) All he has to do is put a little distance between himself and Wright and wait for it to blow over. This thing has no legs.

(many xps)

that's what's so irritating about the ferraro flap: she said "ppl only like this guy because he's black."

1st response: that's offensive.

2nd response: that's not actually true at all.

3rd and most important response: wait a minute, geraldine, your position only makes sense if you think HRC is better purely on those kinds of identity grounds -- you think we have a chance to elect a (platonic) WOMAN and its being ruined by an attempt to elect a (platonic) BLACK MAN! and this basic "facial" contest is actually more important than comparing what they offer on the merits, or how they've campaigned, or what their records show on women's issues or any other kind of issues.

Also, here's what McCain's people are saying re. Wright, here on MSNBC:

Joe: So this isn't an issue for John McCain.

Charlie Black: I don't think Sen. McCain wants to get in the middle of a discussion about Sen. Obama's former pastor, or his faith. He believes that people who endorse you, people who befriend you, are entitled to their own views, but you are not personally held accountable. That when someone endorses you or befriends you, they are embracing your views - the candidate's views - not the other way around.

well, he's on Obama's "African American Religious Leadership Council" - which just seems like a formaility to me but whatever. People on huffpo are acting like he's a senior advisor or on his finance comittee or something.

And really, I think McCain's pastor's comments are far more troubling. "Islam must be destroyed?"But I guess thats a more popular sentiment than black nationalism in America today.

(btw here are some responses to Valenti's nation article i linked to above:

http://www.thenation.com/bletters/20080324/valenti

i know which ones sound thoughtful and which ones sound depressing to me, but yknow, i'm biased)

the fact that Wright is retiring (this month? next?) should help I think

I think it's understandable that Obama doesn't want to stab the guy in the back on his way out the door after a long career and I expect (hope) he will distance himself a little bit in the next few months

Charlie Black: I don't think Sen. McCain wants to get in the middle of a discussion about Sen. Obama's former pastor, or his faith. He believes that people who endorse you, people who befriend you, are entitled to their own views, but you are not personally held accountable. That when someone endorses you or befriends you, they are embracing your views - the candidate's views - not the other way around.

that may be what they're saying in public but according to The Note the McCain campaign was emailing around that Newsmax WSJ story this morning

i think that TPM reader is a bit off, but i do think the wright stuff isn't going to go away very easily.

sure, it cancels out the muslim rumor because it draws attention to his church, but it certainly plays well into 1.) the bogus obama-anti-patriot-anti-america narrative. sure, all those things of that narrative on their own are meaningless (the flag lapel pin, etc.), but presented altogether, it's a decent smear that might get a lot of ground; 2.) it also takes one of obama's appeals - the call to move bast bitter race antagonisms - and challenges it (wright as "angry black man", etc).

(obviously i don't buy into any of these bogus narratives, but i think some of this stuff will come back to haunt him)

Charlie Black: I don't think Sen. McCain wants to get in the middle of a discussion about Sen. Obama's former pastor, or his faith. He believes that people who endorse you, people who befriend you, are entitled to their own views, but you are not personally held accountable. That when someone endorses you or befriends you, they are embracing your views - the candidate's views - not the other way around.

-- suzy, Friday, March 14, 2008 6:07 PM

Yeah I think homie doesn't wanna get into the "whose endorser said more offensive shit" contest. Hagee is a fuckwit he hasn't even made an effort to distance himself from.

He has to thow him under the bus and then back up over him again

This is exactly what he must NOT do if he wishes to retain his appeal. The punitive one-upsmanship fed by cynical media and demagogic populism in this country is revolting. We are or should be smart enought to criticize some of Wright's more egregious statements without demonizing him or tossing the baby out with the bathwater and if Obama stoops to the level of Bush or Clinton, it will lessen his appeal.

multi-x-post (is there any other kind?)

There doesn't need to fit into a larger narrative, because competing narratives can always be floated by surrogates outside the campaign. This isn't as effective as having it in the stump speech and repeated endlessly, but a competing "scandal" narrative can be picked up by the press, get legs, and do a fairish amount of harm among the undecided.

Most presidential campaigns will find a way to get every scrap of bad news about their opponent into the media by some avenue. If they can't make it stick, they'll just drop it and go for the next mafia-hit piece to see if it does any better.

the fact that Wright is retiring (this month? next?) should help I think

He retired in February.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremiah_Wright

Why are people so offended by what he said? Maybe some of you could give some insight - it all seems perfectly rational to me. I guess the "gov't created AIDS to kill off the black man" conspiracy theory type stuff can be pretty off-putting, but it's not like he's the first person to ever say this. And it really isn't that farfetched! The whole "gov't planted crack in black neigborhoods and funded drug trafficking" .. um, this is pretty much historical fact, no? "God Damn America", taken out of context, is pretty inflammatory and offensive I suppose, but in the context of his sermon it makes sense - even if you don't agree. American foreign policy in the mid-east and support of Israel's (illegal) occupation leads to terrorist attacks on american soil! Blowback! None of this is radical, it isn't a stretch at all. We were not attacked by "evil men who hate our freedom" (they are evil, yes, but there is more to it than cultural differences). No one is blaming the 9/11 victims for 9/11, that would be absurd...

The whole "gov't planted crack in black neigborhoods and funded drug trafficking" .. um, this is pretty much historical fact, no?

Planting crack in black neighborhoods is a fact?

Yeah I think homie doesn't wanna get into the "whose endorser said more offensive shit" contest.

^^^OTM

I knew this would become an "issue" - obviously Obama has to appeal to everyone and Wright's views aren't exactly mainstream, therefore he's a liability - but I'm still kind of taken aback by how people are reacting to this.

Planting crack in black neighborhoods is a fact?

Yes - see SJ Mercury News investigative journalism pieces in the early- mid-90s with direct evidence of the CIA importing heroin into LA

(er not heroin, CRACK)

(CIA heroin stuff happened in the 70s in the Bay Area - shipping heroin back to the US from 'Nam)

I'll check it out.

I'm trying to find the info for you.

do you have any links? Not because I doubt you – my mom called last night shouting OMIGOD CRAZY BLACK MAN SPEWING CONSPIRACY NONSENSE.

Webb's Dark Alliance article series

and the whole AIDS thing, I mean have you heard of the Tuskegee Experiment? The Gov't purposely infecting black people with Syphillis?

He retired in February.

huh! so much for that theory. I think I must have read the "retiring next month" bit in a story that came out in January when Wright first said the Bill Clinton comments

sad fact: a lot of people have a hard time understanding why black people may not have a wholly positive outlook on the united states!

i agree that this is a serious political problem for Obama, and he has to figure out a way to minimize it. i'd like to give every american a 'history of race in america' class but that isn't going to do it, i'm afraid.

But conservative evangelical leaders can say that 9/11 and Hurricane Katrina were divine retribution for the immorality of New York and New Orleans, respectively?

and the whole AIDS thing, I mean have you heard of the Tuskegee Experiment? The Gov't purposely infecting black people with Syphillis?

The rumor and fantasy are starting to fly fast and furious here. It's a long stretch from the Tuskegee Experiment (which didn't infect anyone with syphilis, it involved not treating syphilis) to the idea that the government created AIDS.

FYI the San Jose Mercury News retracted a lot of Webb's reporting and backed away from the stories under heavy pressure. doesn't mean it was all not true, but just saying. I don't really know the whole backstory behind it.

I'm not passing it off as fact, I'm just saying that it isn't farfetched when you take history into account.

and the whole AIDS thing, I mean have you heard of the Tuskegee Experiment? The Gov't purposely infecting black people with Syphillis?

Yeah, this I knew.

I don't personally believe it but I can see why some people would

He has to thow him under the bus and then back up over him again

___________________________________

This is exactly what he must NOT do if he wishes to retain his appeal.

This back-and-forth is a good illustration of the box Obama is in because of Wright's comments.

I'm not passing it off as fact, I'm just saying that it isn't farfetched when you take history into account.

I think it is farfetched.

whatever

Some Webb/San Jose Mercury News postscript info: http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0818-33.htm

Yeah, this I knew.

Government never infected anyone with syphilis:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_experiment

I think what Obama's campaign could do is push exposure of Rev. Wright's more positive, uplifting sermons (which, I am certain, eclipse the negative, conspiratorial ones in number by a huge proportion) and push exposure of Sen. Obama's own speeches made to church congregations.

o. nate, i hope you're not implying that not treating syphilis is somehow more defensible than deliberate infection.

He's not implying that at all, dude.

fair enough. but i think it's pretty fruitless toil to examine all of the claims made by rev. wright for verifiability, as none of that is going to reduce the controversy. the larger theme -- that african americans in this country still face systematic & institutional oppression in addition to quotidian, interpersonal bigotry -- is really the more important theme here.

elmotm

Q: I don't know if you've seen it, but it's all over the wire today (from an ABC News story), a statement that your pastor (the Rev. Jeremiah Wright of Trinity United Church of Christ on Chicago's South Side) made in a sermon in 2003 that instead of singing "God Bless America," black people should sing a song essentially saying "God Damn America."

A: I haven't seen the line. This is a pastor who is on the brink of retirement who in the past has made some controversial statements. I profoundly disagree with some of these statements.

Q: What about this particular statement?

A: Obviously, I disagree with that. Here is what happens when you just cherry-pick statements from a guy who had a 40-year career as a pastor. There are times when people say things that are just wrong. But I think it's important to judge me on what I've said in the past and what I believe.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/14/jeremiah-wright-obamas-_n_91555.html

"anyone who believes that african americans do not face institutional oppression should be reminded of the efforts to disenfranchise black voters in florida in the 2000 elections"

^^ proposed 2-for-1 wright/florida talking point for obama

I totally agree elmo (lol). My question is - why does that offend people? Is it just the way he said it? Do they not want to face the (obvious) truth? This whole idea of "race doesn't matter/ we are all Americans" is fine and dandy, and it would be nice of that were the case.. but it really isn't. Obviously. Right?

wait, why is everyone giving o. nate a pass?

i dont think its paranoid for many black americans to be suspicious of the origins of AIDS when it 1. disproportionately affects the african-american community and 2. its a well-known fact that the american gov't had experiments where they sat in a lab watching people suffer from syphilis untreated.

sorry that i don't see 'infecting with syphilis' and 'not treating syphilis' as being all that different, but they're not

and its not like the tuskegee experiment, which happened in some of yr parents' lifetimes btw, is some isolated incident

i dont think its good to encourage the idea that AIDS was a government conspiracy but no, its not all that farfetched

Perhaps we should move the government created AIDS conspiracy theories to another thread.

If Rev. Wright had simply said "African Americans face discrimination", there would be no controversy. Trying to equate his more outlandish statements with that uncontroversial statement is deliberately missing the point.

"race doesn't matter/ we are all Americans"

The fudge here is that some folks will hear it that way and other people will hear it more as nationalism trumps racial differences.

o. nate, what is the "point," in your opinion?

The point is, is Obama doing enough to distance himself from Wright's statements?

no, i mean -- what is the "point" of rev. wrights statements?

I have no idea what his point was.

if you mean that in terms of 'in order to win the election,' no i dont think he is and i imagine his advisers agree and will presumably do something about it at some point now that this is a media firestorm

if you really think he should HAVE to 'distance' himself from them, i think thats nuts; all he SHOULD have to do is say 'yeah AIDS probably not a conspiracy, although i understand why ...' blah blah blah but of course thats no politically feasible because we live in a country with a large number of goofballs

NEWS FLASH: AMERICA HAS PERPETRATED VILE, INDEFENSIBLE ACTS AGAINST ITS OWN CITIZENS.

LATE UPDATE: AMERICANS ARE FUCKING AMNESIACS.

Sure, it has. See also: every other government that has ever existed.

Government violated basic Hippocratic oath principles with Tuskegee, however. People probably don't wanna hear about smallpox blankets either.

The problem with explaining institutionalized racism to LMC whites is they always feel like you're calling *them* bigots rather than engaging with why black people might feel badly treated 140+ years after the end of the Civil War. They reason since they're not being discriminatory to the best of their knowledge, that there should not be a problem. See also 'Michelle Obama is lucky/should be grateful' meme.

Sure, it has. See also: every other government that has ever existed.

-- o. nate, Friday, March 14, 2008 2:03 PM (42 seconds ago) Bookmark Link

yet you think its farfetched that it would happen again?

fair enough. but i think it's pretty fruitless toil to examine all of the claims made by rev. wright for verifiability, as none of that is going to reduce the controversy. the larger theme -- that african americans in this country still face systematic & institutional oppression in addition to quotidian, interpersonal bigotry -- is really the more important theme here.

I can't get on board here. This kind of reasoning was tossed around when Fahrenheit 9-11 was released – "Oh, sure, Moore included a few outright lies but THE WAR WAS STILL A MISTAKE." Dude, you can say the war was a terrible calamity without resorting to Moore's distortions.

yet you think its farfetched that it would happen again?

I think it is farfetched that AIDS was created by the government.

o. nate, i don't know if you're being deliberately obtuse or what, but calling attention to the fact that America has done WRONG SHIT and continues to do so doesn't make you a traitor. The mindset behind those calling for Rev. Wright's head is "MY COUNTRY, RIGHT OR WRONG," and that anyone who reminds us of our inglorious past must hate America.

I dunno, it was pretty easy to get stuff past Reagan.

But really, can we relocate all this conspiratorial discussion to a different thread? I've got a headache from rolling my eyes so much.

what about an american president, revered by conservatives who will be voting for mccain, who said in his official memoirs that he wondered if aids was a punishment sent from god?

proposing that America can learn from past misdeeds and transcend the dark chapters of its own history -- that America can fulfill its promise DESPITE its history -- this is the idea I find simultaneously more pragmatic and more hopeful.

i look forward to lots of federal incidents surrounding right-wing backwoods secessionist nutjobs during the obama administration

I think lineage of how AIDS spread from Africa is quite clear to scientists these days, and its first known victims weren't American at all.

I think it is farfetched that AIDS was created by the government.

-- o. nate, Friday, March 14, 2008 2:07 PM (21 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

i dont think its 'farfetched,' i think its wrong
i think its understandable, based on past evidence, why some people might not see it as being farfetched

Yeah, I agree with both of those points.

shirts and skins

http://www.janeelliott.com/

WTF her videos are all $295 each!

http://www.yourdailymedia.com/i/u/N85REtHR.jpg

Educational videos are always crazy expensive. xp

i dont think its 'farfetched,' i think its wrong

OK, this is some serious semantic hair-splitting.

Anyway, I do think Obama has to be very careful about how he responds to this Wright stuff. It's particularly dangerous for him because he still remains largely a blank slate to a lot of people, and things like this run the risk of defining him.

'incorrect' and 'inconceivable' are not synonyms, buddy.

just to be able to mention "Farrakhan", "Nation of Islam", "militant black", and "Barak Obama", in the same sentence over and over again, like neocons did with "Iraq", "Saddam Hussein", "Osama bin Laden", and "9/11", is enough to make an impression on people whose opinions are based on impressions formed from snippets of news shows, newspaper headlines, and other methods of disseminated 'knowledge' (who i believe make up the majority of people, as cynical as that may be).

i'm not sure how important those types of people are to who gets elected in 2008, but this seems like one of those news stories that has the potential to enter the sort of national consciousness that is the basis for Jay Leno jokes, SNL bits, and water cooler conversations. if that happens; i think Obama is finished.

i think you need to calm down. it's serious but not fatal. it will hurt him in pennsylvania but he has the time to make it up, and i think that's doable.

hahaha now suddenly it's the obama foax who are like "everybody just stay calm"!!!!!!

nah im still freaked

but im glad you're proud that hillary's managed to make him as unelectable as she is

do you ever stop being an asshole???

haha you like it dont lie

good work extrapolating the opinions of millions from a single post on the internet, tracer, your insight is blinding.

well you're the one gloating about this whole thing (xpost)

shirts and skins 

camp HRC didn't 'make' the wright thing. but coming after farrakhan, power, and ferraro, it's another link in a pretty depressing chain of competitive umbrage-taking, that (SAY IT LOUD) camp HRC has been ready willing and able to play with... god can't wait for this to be finished.

it is amazing how tribes can ascribe motive to neutral statements

gff that's an admirable job of almost finding a way to make wright's past statements "another" example of hillary clinton "playing the race card"

you must be so glad the shit you are full of doesn't stink.

the most inflammatory wright stuff is in no way justifiable by obama (despite the strenuous efforts here to do just that!) but using it as some kind of proof that obama's got "problems" or whatever is horsesh*t, as i've already said quite clearly on this thread -- i am not gloating about this in the slightest, it makes me sad and angry that the words of probably a pretty good guy are getting chopped and twisted in order to smear obama

are you kidding? i don't think the wright flap has anything to do with HRC! and i said so! i'm depressed, equally depressed, you might say, that the campaign has descended into a contest of whose personal miseries and offenses are worse and who needs to apologize for what and how deeply. i don't think it does anyone any favors going forward and it's just gloomy to sit through.

but yes i think the farrakhan and ferraro incidents are creepier and much harder to excuse. wright may be more damaging in the long run, however.

xps

The media went digging after Wright because they sensed a bit of a story there, regardless of who is assisted by it in the campaign. The real winners are various media companies because people are tuning it in, hence ratings value, hence more viewers/page impressions/listeners, whoa nelly more expensive advertising results. Please remember that above all else Election 2008 has gripped the US and the world well beyond the two before it; the audience is massive and keeping all these balls in the air makes it stay that way.

saxomous (11 minutes ago):
I was an Obama supporter until this morning when I saw all of this.
I will not vote for a man whose pastor for 20 years, who married him, and baptized his kids acts like this.
Who knows what Obama has in the back of his mind, and how much anti-american hatred the Obamas have.
I was ready for change, I had hope...
and now its all gone because Barack Obama is no better than Clinton.
SHAME ON YOU OBAMA
God Damn America
How bout God Damn you asshole.

Veltanschaung (17 minutes ago):
Don't tell us this is the Church in which Barack an Michelle got married in?! He got title 'Audacity of Hope' from this "priest of Hate"! Incredible! This "hatemonger Priest" is the OBAMAS' SPIRITUAL ADVISOR?!!!!!

ajrep (41 minutes ago)
The blacks in this country need to shut the hell up and get back to work before NO ONE likes your sorry, whining, lazy ass. Racism in America as we knoiw it is mainly coming from the blacks!! Get over it. No one owes you anything you hate mongers.
Bombeni (47 minutes ago)
Well, Obama you are going down. It's official. You played plenty of American dupes but I had your racist muslim anti-American ass pegged from day one. Yeah that's right.

http://wonkette.com/368112/barack-hillary-agree-to-be-nicer

Read comments, lolz

it's another link in a pretty depressing chain of competitive umbrage-taking, that (SAY IT LOUD) camp HRC has been ready willing and able to play with

that's why i said "almost", gff

the difference between you and me elmo, is that you are playing a tribal game - a game of shirts and skins, where everything "they" say and do is proof of their evilness, and everything your guy says is proof that he is indeed the true honest one - i am not playing that game

it makes me sad and angry that the words of probably a pretty good guy are getting chopped and twisted in order to smear obama

OTM. I'm fully confident that Rev. Wright is actually a pretty stand-up guy, and I think it's part of the job description of any preacher worth his robes to occasionally unleash a few WTF eye-rollers. Sad how it will be used though.

Deej, those are shills.

It's refreshing to see that stupid ass shit pushed by the likes of WSJ and Fox hasn't caused the Demopcratic electorate to turn on each other and unsheath theior knives, at least, eh?

thanks for telling me about my own opinion, prick.

welcome to the internet!

What's sad is that McCain's "bomb Iran" song seems to be thought of as just for laffs, while Obama's pastor's comments, which don't involve killing people, aren't thought of as just for laffs.

yay America

Anyway, I do think Obama has to be very careful about how he responds to this Wright stuff. It's particularly dangerous for him because he still remains largely a blank slate to a lot of people, and things like this run the risk of defining him.

this has been said 100000000x about every near-scandal that's hit Obama and he's handled them all gracefully

we're doomed i tell you

DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMED

I think the 'uncle who occasionally says crazy stuff' angle is good, 'cause I bet even evangelicals occasionally disagree with their pastor.

DMX on the presidential race:

Are you following the presidential race?
Not at all.

You’re not? You know there’s a Black guy running, Barack Obama and then there’s Hillary Clinton.
His name is Barack?!

Barack Obama, yeah.
Barack?!

Barack.
What the fuck is a Barack?! Barack Obama. Where he from, Africa?

Yeah, his dad is from Kenya.
Barack Obama?

Yeah.
What the fuck?! That ain’t no fuckin’ name, yo. That ain’t that nigga’s name. You can’t be serious. Barack Obama. Get the fuck outta here.

You’re telling me you haven’t heard about him before.
I ain’t really paying much attention.

I mean, it’s pretty big if a Black…
Wow, Barack! The nigga’s name is Barack. Barack? Nigga named Barack Obama. What the fuck, man?! Is he serious? That ain’t his fuckin’ name. Ima tell this nigga when I see him, “Stop that bullshit. Stop that bullshit” (laughs) “That ain’t your fuckin’ name.” Your momma ain’t name you no damn Barack.

So you’re not following the race. You can’t vote right?
Nope.

Is that why you’re not following it?
No, because it’s just—it doesn’t matter. They’re gonna do what they’re gonna do. It doesn’t really make a difference. These are the last years.

But it would be pretty big if we had a first Black president. That would be huge.
I mean, I guess…. What, they gon’ give a dog a bone? There you go. Ooh, we have a Black president now. They should’ve done that shit a long time ago, we wouldn’t be in the fuckin’ position we in now. With world war coming up right now. They done fucked this shit up then give it to the Black people, “Here you take it. Take my mess.”

Right, exactly.
It’s all a fuckin’ setup. It’s all a setup. All fuckin’ bullshit. All bullshit. I don’t give a fuck about none of that.

We could have a female president also, Hillary Clinton.
I mean, either way it doesn’t matter. I don’t care. No one person is directly affected by which president, you know, so what does it matter.

Yeah, but the country is.
I guess. The president is a puppet anyway. The president don’t make no damn decisions.

The president…they don’t have that much authority basically?
Nah, never.

But Bush pretty much…
You think Bush is making fuckin’ decisions?

He did, yeah, he fucked up the country.
He act like he making decisions. He could barely speak! He could barely fuckin’ speak!
Can’t be serious. He ain’t making no damn decisions.

Well Barack has a good chance of winning so that might be something.
Good for him, good for him.

tracer, your elitist stance does not excuse you from the same fallacious elisions in logic that you accuse others of indulging and which you yourself have indulged in. and for whatever it's worth, being critical of all sides of an argument does not mean you've transcended it.

p.s. fuck yourself.

i think my posting history on these threads shows something better than tribalism.

tracer i also think sticking with above-it-all equanimity is its own kind of tribalist pose -- americans and people all over the world have seen enough evidence to make a decision about this race, even through the media's great cloud of unknowability, as you'd have it.

xp2 MW: yup, mccain can't push this too hard cos he needs Hagee's evangelicals AND those seduced by the whore of babylon in november... talk radio will still have a field day with it.

xp2 ahem.

DMX for secretary of defense

when i started reading that interview for a second i thought it was someone doing custos

holy shit DMX

xp haha deej me too

So did I.

Obama respons on HuffPo:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/barack-obama/on-my-faith-and-my-church_b_91623.html

"Your momma ain’t name you no damn Barack."!!!!

do you think custos is actually dmx

you should feel honored that i didnt react the same way to '-- max' that i would to '-- StanM'

dmx is bullshitting about dudes name (sorry we cant all be named EARL homie) but this is real talk:

"With world war coming up right now. They done fucked this shit up then give it to the Black people, “Here you take it. Take my mess.”"

I like Obama's response in that Huffington Post link; if he can spend the weekend saying that a bunch of times, this could be a net plus, since it emphasizes his Christianity (so it can knock the Muslim rumors out for a while at least).

Plus, he's basically saying that we shouldn't hold a retiring dude's words against him, which is kind of a dig against McCain.

xpost to and what: yeah, I think the Republican kingmakers would actually be kind of happy to lose this one; that's why they stuck it to McCain, instead of someone they really wanted in office (e.g. probably Jeb Bush).

He should've went more in depth about what Rev. Wright teaches, and the good things he's done to uplift the people of his congregation, but overall I think it's a good response.

+ points for mentioning his military service, lol

funny it just occurred to me i have no idea to what church Hillary belongs to or anything.

church of the poison mind

haha oh god no way

Through all of her years in Washington, Clinton has been an active participant in conservative Bible study and prayer circles that are part of a secretive Capitol Hill group known as the Fellowship. Her collaborations with right-wingers such as Senator Sam Brownback (R-Kan.) and former Senator Rick Santorum (R-Pa.) grow in part from that connection. "A lot of evangelicals would see that as just cynical exploitation," says the Reverend Rob Schenck, a former leader of the militant anti-abortion group Operation Rescue who now ministers to decision makers in Washington. "I don't....there is a real good that is infected in people when they are around Jesus talk, and open Bibles, and prayer."

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2007/09/hillarys-prayer.html

(article may be tendentious bs, still reading)

(but, you know, LOL)

"There is a real good that is infected in people when they are around Jesus talk, and open Bibles, and prayer."

i like how he describes Jesus talk as a vector for getting INFECTED BY GOODNESS

xpost haha

lol @ DMX. i loved it

i heard the government infected people with real good

Actually, I've heard that exposure to low levels of Jesus talk, and open Bibles, and prayer can help you develop an immunity.

Pat Buchanan: McCain 'will make Cheney look like Gandhi'

I think he just means that Cheney's bald.

"In an ideal world, I think, people would spend a lot less time parsing remarks by people other than the candidate and then demanding that that candidate disavow them; and more time trying to figure out what we can infer from a candidate's relationship to someone, if we imagine both parties as actual human beings, rather than as walking position papers who relate to each other only via agreement and disagreement on policy."

When Clinton first came to Washington in 1993, one of her first steps was to join a Bible study group. For the next eight years, she regularly met with a Christian "cell" whose members included Susan Baker, wife of Bush consigliere James Baker; Joanne Kemp, wife of conservative icon Jack Kemp; Eileen Bakke, wife of Dennis Bakke, a leader in the anti-union Christian management movement; and Grace Nelson, the wife of Senator Bill Nelson, a conservative Florida Democrat.

Clinton's prayer group was part of the Fellowship (or "the Family"), a network of sex-segregated cells of political, business, and military leaders dedicated to "spiritual war" on behalf of Christ, many of them recruited at the Fellowship's only public event, the annual National Prayer Breakfast. (Aside from the breakfast, the group has "made a fetish of being invisible," former Republican Senator William Armstrong has said.) The Fellowship believes that the elite win power by the will of God, who uses them for his purposes. Its mission is to help the powerful understand their role in God's plan.

Clinton declined our requests for an interview about her faith, but in Living History, she describes her first encounter with Fellowship leader Doug Coe at a 1993 lunch with her prayer cell at the Cedars, the Fellowship's majestic estate on the Potomac. Coe, she writes, "is a unique presence in Washington: a genuinely loving spiritual mentor and guide to anyone, regardless of party or faith, who wants to deepen his or her relationship with God."

The Fellowship's ideas are essentially a blend of Calvinism and Norman Vincent Peale, the 1960s preacher of positive thinking. It's a cheery faith in the "elect" chosen by a single voter—God—and a devotion to Romans 13:1: "Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers....The powers that be are ordained of God." Or, as Coe has put it, "we work with power where we can, build new power where we can't."

That Obama response on Huffington Post is good and quite persuasive when read in full. However, my worry is that this little storm in a teacup won't be decided by long, reasoned arguments and statements of fact - it will be decided by soundbites. Obama needs a strong soundbite to counteract the inevitable YouTube clips. I'm not sure if condemning the statements is going to do it. Sadly, this campaign season has been marked by lots of silly statements that got blown out of proportion and only died down when someone quit the campaign. Now obviously Wright was never in the campaign and he's now retired, so maybe that won't be necessary this time, but it seems like the pattern so far has been that condemning the statements hasn't been enough.

The concept of the Elect = WASP Entitlement 101 xpost

In a rare Senate appearance yesterday, McCain failed to attract support for a halt to pork-barrel spending, losing on a 71-29 vote. An angry McCain told voters today that he was only “doing the Lord’s work” but unfortunately was doing it “in the city of Satan”: mccain83.jpg

Later in Springfield, Penn., McCain told voters: “We were voting on major issues of profound consequences with no discussion, no debate and 10 minutes to vote.

“Anyone who had the misfortune of watching it will know how hard it is to do the Lord’s work in the city of Satan,” said McCain, who has served four-terms in the Senate.

you should feel honored that i didnt react the same way to '-- max' that i would to '-- StanM'

-- deej, Friday, March 14, 2008 9:48 PM (23 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

?

http://www.dia.uniroma3.it/~sperduto/images/peace.jpg

Sure, no problem - I just didn't know.

That Hillary Bible Study is almost as funny as what will happen when they ask her who came to pray with Bill post-Monica.

He act like he making decisions. He could barely speak! He could barely fuckin’ speak!

uh pot calling the kettle black here

btw DMX is a fucking moron and his music sucks

He got blood on his dick cuz he fucked a corpse.

Anyone who had the misfortune of watching it will know how hard it is to do the Lord’s work in the city of Satan,” said McCain, who has served four-terms in the Senate.

lol the reporter sounds quietly incredulous that this man has been in DC so long.

God hates earmarks?

I mean, really? Is that in the Bible somewhere?

God loves earmarks. Ever heard of tithing?

btw DMX is a fucking moron and his music sucks

-- Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, March 14, 2008 9:53 PM

lol stfu

eh I never liked him

next controversy, plz. this one is already played out.

DMX interview could not have come at a better time thank u maxxx <3

Obama releasing his response through the Huffington Post seems like a good strategy.

He's also going to appear on Olbermann, Hannity & Colmes, and AC360 I think.

hannity & colmes?!!

yeah this is what I hear.

I dunno if that's such a good idea

obama's christian god will surely protect him, much as he protected daniel in the den of lions, amen

I think he sent it out to a bunch of outlets, not just HuffPo. Some dude on CBN has posted it with "Obama has sent us a statement here" blah blah blah.

I dunno if that's such a good idea

it's about time he appeared on one of the wingnut shows! If he's in good form, he'll destroy Hannity as casually as Hitchens did last year.

HuffPost lists it as "Obama Exclusive", so I would think that any attempt to put credit elsewhere is just to avoid mentioning the site. (This is why it's a neat strategy for Obama: Drudge, for example, never links to Huffington Post.)

ben smith @ politico links to some additional rezko details (not sure how "new" they are) that obama stated in a recent interview. they don't indict him in any wrongdoing, so it didn't really change much about the situation. just perhaps that rezko donated more to his earlier campaigns than was perhaps known:

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0308/Your_Friday_Rezko.html

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/chi-obama-rezkomar15,0,2968927.story

Indicted Chicago businessman Antoin "Tony" Rezko was a more significant fundraiser for presidential candidate Barack Obama's earlier political campaigns than previously known. Rezko raised as much as $250,000 for the first three offices Obama sought, the senator told the Tribune on Friday.

Obama also said for the first time that his private real estate transactions with Rezko involved repeated lapses of judgment. The mistake, Obama said, was not simply that Rezko was under grand jury investigation at the time of their 2005 and 2006 dealings. "The mistake was he had been a contributor and somebody involved in politics," he said.

In an extensive interview that he hoped would quell the lingering controversy over his relationship with Rezko, Obama said that voters concerned about his judgment should view it as "a mistake in not seeing the potential conflicts of interest."

dunno if this will get any traction. but there's likely an obama strategy to getting this out now - along with all the earmark details he released - so that he'll be able to hit clinton harder on the transparency issues, esp. the tax returns, white house papers, etc.

oh and jeremiah wright is no longer on the religious council of the campaign.

As long as he didn't pardon Rezko, he's got one up on the Clintons...

(This is why it's a neat strategy for Obama: Drudge, for example, never links to Huffington Post.)

I don't get why this is a neat strategy at all. Wouldn't you want this message disseminated to as many people as possible, not just people who read liberal blogs?

i was wondering the same thing

Because it's news that Fox can't ignore.

Apparently MSNBC/CNN and not Fox doing best ratings-wise during the 08 campaign. This might be good background when analyzing who goes after what. As for Drudge, how soon we forget OMG TURBAN PHOTO and Obama people have not.

lol @ Sean Hannity saying Obama should resign from his senate seat.

lolololol why

Because of THE TERRIBLE DISGRACE?

Of his former pastor once saying some stuff!

Greta Van Sustren has an unfortunate face.

sean hannity should resign from life

It's kinda great that whenever something goes wrong with his campaign Obama immediately just goes on TV everywhere giving his own take on it rather than just releasing a statement and hoping it'll just go away by the next news cycle. It's somewhat refreshing.

the 2nd part of his interview on AC360 was amazing.

This whole attempt by people to paint Obama as this "post-racial" figure had bothered me for a while now, because there are still issues that we have to get over as a country and as a people.. his words were very profound.

great discussion going on on CNN right now.

this kind of needed to happen.

this fits again:

It may take from now until November to repudiate every supporter or potential supporter who has said or done something regrettable but it will be time well spent.

hopefully Obama's pastor is voting for Hillary

or McCain

is there a joke somewhere in there

Any link to AC360?

Obama is conducting himself well right now but I'm worried about the blog comments all over the place from shills, freepers and others who don't realise how racist they're being, or are delighting in having a vent for their bigotry. This should make all of us ill. They think Obama is prevaricating somehow, they can't put a finger on why they can't trust him but they're glad to have the perfect excuse not to. I mean, it's all very well for us to say these critics share a communal brain cell and lack a spelling dictionary but they are all coming out of the woodwork at once. RAIIIIIID! What Obama is going through right now is proof that people whites will identify as black still have to work twice as hard for half as much, and are expected to be very grateful for that, if not to personally go around and thank whitey one by one for being so fucking magnanimous. Everyone else who isn't some shade of brown isn't expected to offer more than token thanks to the larger society for achieving things through individual hard work or the institutional assistance all Americans are entitled to.

im real worried about this, this shit has some traction
did the obama campaign really not know/think these speeches wouldn't air?

they did know, everyone who was following this early on knew that eventually this would become big, but I guess they didn't think it would cause THIS MUCH of a reaction. He already "denounced and rejected" some stuff Wright said and tried to distance himself from him way back in 07.

suzy otm, I'll try to find the AC360 vids for you.

this whole thing has me really depressed though. maybe I'm too emotionally invested in this thing lol

If this still has the same full head of steam on Monday as it did on Friday, then I'll be worried. Joe Public forgets about politics on the weekend, though.

Don't worry BW, I found a transcript. I don't think the people who had decided they're for Obama or are Dem ticket voters are going to be abandoning Obama because of this. I think there are enough of these to win in November. But there are hella bigots using this latest controversy as an excuse to express their racial anxiety like the blowhards they are -- and we all know people who are like this. Anyone who's ever been on the wrong end of bullying knows the form, where your oppressor baits you to force a situation where s/he can say you are 'too angry' and therefore haven't 'earned' their tolerance.

I'm pretty comfortable with Wright's speeches and his criticisms of America and I know damn well that Afrocentrism is not a black supremacy movement.

Also good on HuffPoPo yesterday, substance and LOLs: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/orlando-lima/im-not-racist-some-of-m_b_91548.html

McCain, at a town hall meeting in this Philadelphia suburb, was asked if he had concerns that anti-American militants in Iraq might ratchet up their activities in Iraq to try to increase casualties in September or October and tip the November election against him.

"Yes, I worry about it," McCain said. "And I know they pay attention because of the intercepts we have of their communications ... The hardest thing in warfare is to counter someone or a group of individuals who are willing to take their own lives in order to take others."

wtf

No, Ethan, it's FUD. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt

The speech Obama just gave at this rally in Indiana a moment ago re-addressed the Jeremiah Wright issue waaaaaaay better than any of his cable news appearances last night did. I think he may have gotten on top of this after all.

I just saw the clip from "Hannity & Colmes" -- he was as unflappable as ever.

Johnny, the gist was?

He made mention of Robert Kennedy speaking to citizens of Indianapolis while standing on the roof of a car, sharing the news of MLK's assassination, telling people this was not the time to fragment and further divide among racial lines, but to come together and lift each other up. He also said that he will not stand for any assumption on anyone's part that the views expressed by his pastor are also his own.

That's what I wanted to see. Not just a rebuke of those things, but a turnaround of the conversation.

I can't find a pic of RFK at that announcement, but I did find this, the transcript & audio of the event.

McCain, at a town hall meeting in this Philadelphia suburb, was asked if he had concerns that anti-American militants in Iraq might ratchet up their activities in Iraq to try to increase casualties in September or October and tip the November election against him.

Hasn't been one of their lines for like 4-5 years now? Not that such considerations shouldn't be made, but this weird-ass myopic narcissism, that all shit in the world occurs just to affect America & its voting patterns in certain elections.

^^^This. But the correct term is not myopia, it's PARANOID NARCISSISM.

omg omg i'm sitting in a coffee house in s. minneapolis, never been here before, and mayor rybak (obama's mn campaign chair, i believe) is sitting next to me with a table full of ppl talking convention stuff -- can't really hear what's up but shit is seeeeriouuusssss

give her some advice from this thread

tacos/obama 08

-- jhøshea, Tuesday, February 12, 2008 4:26 PM (1 month ago) Bookmark Link

r.t. rybak is a dude lol feminized liberals

wait, Minn is going to be where the RNC takes place, right? See if you can snag a pass and worm your way in.

how's the dem senate primary going there, anyway?

"mayor i'd like to present you with what i'd like to call 'the morbius plan'"

xp ciresi bailed. franken 08! :/

We in Oregon also have a GOP senate seat that's being targeted. I've met one of the candidates.

Hahahaha, Franken. Apparently so obnoxious at my HS they - the district - paid for him to go to Blake by way of expulsion. I have not paid much attention to this one yet.

MN is going to be where the RNC takes place and if you look upthread you will see that one poster is already going for workses and may have AAA pass.

Gff, is K Ellison also there? He is co-chair of MN Obamarama.

no k. ellison; congress is in session so i hope he's keeping busy.

the mayor has left the building. exciting!

Not all messages are displayed: show all messages (6173 of them)

is it time for Thread 3?

Hoos, I think they have to get to 10,000 posts and crash half of ILXors' browsers before anyone does anything that sensible.

was just thinkin cause the other was locked @ Not all messages are displayed: show all messages (7238 of them)

Only if you call it P2008: OUR MESSAGES, LET US SHOW YOU THEM.

...if you say that in a Scottish accent it means you've been to the shops and have come back with stuff.

can we call it

MY FRIENDS, THE THIRD 2008 PRIMARIES THREAD

Every time I hear "my friends..." I throw up in my mouth, a little.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/raymond-leon-roker/guess-whos-coming-to-din_b_91666.html

can we call it

MY FRIENDS, THE THIRD 2008 PRIMARIES THREAD

-- gr8080, Sunday, March 16, 2008 12:13 AM

^^^^ a hoos likes this idea

Tracy Morgan on SNL responding to Tina Fey's Hillary endorsement 3 weeks ago: "Bitch may be the new black, but black is the new president, bitch."

ha

The "McCAIN IS OLD" sketch was hilarious.

FINALLY! They found something for Darrell Hammond to do this season.

Ad for a Belgian university:

http://i32.tinypic.com/2u7ro00.jpg

Obama's Indiana speech yeseterday.

good shit.

Amid all the righteous noise made about Rev. Jeremiah Wright, it was David Gergen on Anderson Cooper's show who made the most pertinent observation. The veteran GOP operative with bipartisan ties informed the audience that black America is having a different conversation than white America, so one cannot apply the CNN, Fox, or MSNBC framework to African-American concerns.

Gergen's insight came and went with little comment, since the Wright media spasm is largely a white creation. Who cares what those with no political power think? That it took a power broker like Gergen to make this obvious, important point further reveals how fixed our "national dialogue" remains....

I've been pretty hard on the Obama campaign, and still am; but if anything would soften my view, it's this bullshit furor over Jeremiah Wright. If you are white and don't listen to black talk radio, now would be a good time to start. Wright's opinions are not deemed crazy there, and you'll hear much stronger denunciations of imperialism and racism than you ever will on a white liberal's show. Sure, some dementia is present: this is America, after all. But contrast the opinions exchanged between African-Americans to those expressed on the corporate kabuki programs, or worse, white reactionary broadcasts. Which do you think is closer to what's actually going on?

http://dennisperrin.blogspot.com/2008/03/land-of-chains.html

http://i25.tinypic.com/2ldj2oh.jpg

HAPPY ST PATTYS BITCHES

lol the ups guy was all heres yr obama tshirt

popular delivery that day, was it?

kudos you are truly black irish today hooray

from first read @ msnbc:

After releasing all of Obama’s Rezko records and sitting with Chicago Tribune and Chicago Sun-Times reporters on Friday, the Obama campaign has upped the ante for Team Clinton. Yesterday, the Obama camp asked Clinton to release all of her tax records, disclose all of her earmarks, and make the donations to the Clinton presidential library and foundation public. The Clinton camp, in response, says Obama should release his tax returns for every year he's been in public office and every earmark he requested as a state senator. The pushback is obvious: try to cloud the lack of disclosure in the Clinton campaign with questions of lack of disclosure on the Obama front. This is the road the Obama campaign clearly wants to go down. The question is whether bareknuckles politics ultimately hurts Obama's image or whether a fight for disclosure brings back the bad news of the Clinton years Democratic voters -- and superdelegates -- might be tired of.

seems so bizarre to me -- The Clinton camp, in response, says Obama should release his tax returns for every year he's been in public office and every earmark he requested as a state senator. i.e. "i'm going to challenge you to do something that i'm extremely reluctant to do myself, take that!!!"

more interesting stuff from first read:

Clinton’s super problem: By our count, the Clinton campaign hasn’t publicly announced the support of a new superdelegate since just after February 5. Indeed, since Super Tuesday, Obama has gained 47 new superdelegates, while Clinton has lost seven (including Eliot Spitzer). Does Clinton have a bigger problem on the superdelegate front than folks realize? Why do we think party leaders -- who saw the Democrats lose governorships, state legislatures, and the control of Congress during the Clinton years -- suddenly jump on board the Clinton campaign? Isn't this the reason the Clinton campaign has only been able to keep uncommitted supers from climbing board Obama's bandwagon but they haven't been able to woo a new super to their side in a month? ? Isn't this also an explanation for why the Clinton campaign has done so poorly in the caucuses? The caucuses are made up of the activists who follow this stuff closer and think about things like electability and who can help the party keep Congress, etc. If Clinton's not winning over caucus activists, why should we believe she'll win over a large enough chunk of superdelegates to overcome Obama's pledged delegate lead? Ultimately, her best chance is to convince supers that Obama is completely unelectable on par with McGovern, an argument that might have been helped a tad by Rev. Wright.

And beyond the supers... Heed the Grand Moff Ickes:

A pledged-delegate loophole for Rodham?

After the 1980 battle between Jimmy Carter and Ted Kennedy, her chief strategist Harold Ickes noted, the party changed a rule that required pledged delegates to stick with their candidates no matter what. The current rule, adopted in 1982, states that pledged delegates "shall in all good conscience reflect the sentiments of those who elected them." A "good conscience" reason for a delegate to switch, Ickes told NEWSWEEK, would be if one candidate—such as, say, Clinton—was deemed more "electable." If delegates believe she has a better chance in November than Obama, Ickes said, "you bet" that would be a reason to change their vote. (He added, however, that the campaign is "focused" on winning over uncommitted superdelegates "at this point.")

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/03/17/many_voting_for_clinton_to_boost_gop/

For a party that loves to hate the Clintons, Republican voters have cast an awful lot of ballots lately for Senator Hillary Clinton: About 100,000 GOP loyalists voted for her in Ohio, 119,000 in Texas, and about 38,000 in Mississippi, exit polls show.

IT'S RUSH HOUR

sooo both democrats and republicans believe obama to be more electable and he has an insurmountable lead in pledged delegates

hmmmm

seems so bizarre to me -- The Clinton camp, in response, says Obama should release his tax returns for every year he's been in public office and every earmark he requested as a state senator. i.e. "i'm going to challenge you to do something that i'm extremely reluctant to do myself, take that!!!"

You've never been married, have you.

it would not surprise me in the slightest if hillary goes after the pledged delegates (assuming this thing goes to the convention, which i still don't think will happen), but i don't know how successful she'd be. aren't pledged delegates some of the most adamant supporters of the candidate they pledged to support? barring some enormous catastrophe for obama (and no, i don't think wright is going to be that catastrophe, even though he is/will be a problem), i don't see obama's pledged delegates ditching him.

xpost - ha, i haven't been married, no. i know what you mean, we've done similarly hypocritical things in personal relationships. i guess i was saying it's a bizarre move for the campaign because it's just so transparent - hillary's very clearly, very publicly shown reluctance to release her tax returns (it was even asked at one of the debates), so it seems like a weird move to make when it could so easily backfire.

i could be wrong on the backfire, though, as it all depends on how it's portrayed by the media, blah blah.

Yeah, it's a silly tactic but so is asking for her papers in the first place. I personally can think of few things I care less about than Hillary Clinton's tax returns.

http://i25.tinypic.com/2md1dlf.jpg

hahahahahaha

xp: I can think of many (like what expatriates think about them?).

How exciting for you.

didn't she say she's been 'vetted'?

obama's gearing up to assault clinton on transparency -- he recently sat down with the hicago Tribune and answered all questions they had regarding his relationship with Rezko, his campaign has released the list of charities where the Rezko contributions went, plus the disclosure of earmarks and tax returns... he's been laying the groundwork for the assault by airing out everything of his that could be brought into question.

Veteran columnist/activist Doug Ireland writing in NY's Gay City News on supporting Obama (w/ eyes wide open):

Half a Cheer for Obama

Bill Clinton's paradigmatic triangulation - at the urging of Dick Morris - which destroyed the social welfare programs inherited from Franklin D. Roosevelt and Lyndon Johnson was not only supported by Hillary, but according to George Stephanopoulos' memoir, when Bill wavered Hillary insisted that he go through with it. Obama wrote in one of his books that the Clintons' evisceration of social welfare was the right thing to do, and criticized FDR's New Deal.

While Obama did oppose the war in Iraq from its inception, a politically popular thing to do in his Illinois state senate district, which included the University of Chicago's anti-war campus, and Hillary voted for the war, both have voted numerous times to continue fully funding it - and Obama went to Connecticut to campaign for Joe Lieberman against the primary challenge to his re-nomination by anti-war candidate Ned Lamont.

Both Clinton and Obama support the Constitution-shredding Patriot Act, the endlessly wasteful war on drugs, charter schools (which would destroy public control of public education), the dreadful bureaucratic nightmare that is the No Child Left Behind Act, a Real ID national identity card, and the death penalty.

Both oppose single-payer health care, which is the only real way to achieve universal coverage, and instead favor complicated, Rube Goldberg-like, pro-business schemes that genuflect to the insurance companies and HMOs.

The programmatic affinities of the two candidates reflect just how unsettlingly far to the right the Democratic Party's center of gravity has moved in these last decades....

Five of Hillary's top fundraisers have pled either guilty or no contest to various crimes. For just a taste of Hillary's sleazy frequentations, Google the names of Denise Rich, Peter Paul, and Norman Hsu, or examine the public record of her boodling presidential campaign chairman, the notorious bagman Terry McAuliffe...

But if there is one thing that makes it imperative that Hillary Clinton be defeated, it is the ignoble race-baiting tactics she and her campaign have deployed in this year's primaries and caucuses in order to try to win votes, from false fear-mongering designed to inflame Latinos in Nevada to Bill Clinton's repeated playing of the race card in the run-up to South Carolina... Such stomach-turning cynicism recalls the worst days of Richard Nixon's race-based "Southern Strategy" and the scarcely-coded panderings to prejudice of George Wallace. It must be repudiated, and decisively.

Both Clinton and Obama support the Constitution-shredding Patriot Act, is incorrect, as Obama wasn't in the Senate in 2002.

2001, rather.

He supported the reauthorization of the Patriot Act in 2006.

Floor Statement of Senator Barack Obama on S.2271 - USA PATRIOT Act Reauthorization

Thursday, February 16, 2006

Mr. President, four years ago, following one of the most devastating attacks in our nation's history, Congress passed the USA PATRIOT Act to give our nation's law enforcement the tools they needed to track down terrorists who plot and lurk within our own borders and all over the world - terrorists who, right now, are looking to exploit weaknesses in our laws and our security to carry out even deadlier attacks than we saw on September 11th.

We all agreed that we needed legislation to make it harder for suspected terrorists to go undetected in this country. Americans everywhere wanted that.

But soon after the PATRIOT Act passed, a few years before I ever arrived in the Senate, I began hearing concerns from people of every background and political leaning that this law didn't just provide law enforcement the powers it needed to keep us safe, but powers it didn't need to invade our privacy without cause or suspicion.

Now, at times this issue has tended to degenerate into an "either-or" type of debate. Either we protect our people from terror or we protect our most cherished principles. But that is a false choice. It asks too little of us and assumes too little about America.

Fortunately, last year, the Senate recognized that this was a false choice. We put patriotism before partisanship and engaged in a real, open, and substantive debate about how to fix the PATRIOT Act. And Republicans and Democrats came together to propose sensible improvements to the Act. Unfortunately, the House was resistant to these changes, and that's why we're voting on the compromise before us.

Let me be clear: this compromise is not as good as the Senate version of the bill, nor is it as good as the SAFE Act that I have cosponsored. I suspect the vast majority of my colleagues on both sides of the aisle feel the same way. But, it's still better than what the House originally proposed.

This compromise does modestly improve the PATRIOT Act by strengthening civil liberties protections without sacrificing the tools that law enforcement needs to keep us safe. In this compromise:

We strengthened judicial review of both National Security Letters, the administrative subpoenas used by the FBI, and Section 215 orders, which can be used to obtain medical, financial and other personal records.

We established hard time limits on sneak-and-peak searches and limits on roving wiretaps.

We protected most libraries from being subject to National Security Letters.

We preserved an individual's right to seek counsel and hire an attorney without fearing the FBI's wrath.

And we allowed judicial review of the gag orders that accompany Section 215 searches.

The compromise is far from perfect. I would have liked to see stronger judicial review of National Security Letters and shorter time limits on sneak and peak searches, among other things.

Sen. Feingold has proposed several sensible amendments - that I support - to address these issues. Unfortunately, the Majority Leader is preventing Sen. Feingold from offering these amendments through procedural tactics. That is regrettable because it flies in the face of the bipartisan cooperation that allowed the Senate to pass unanimously its version of the Patriot Act - a version that balanced security and civil liberties, partisanship and patriotism.

The Majority Leader's tactics are even more troubling because we will need to work on a bipartisan basis to address national security challenges in the weeks and months to come. In particular, members on both sides of the aisle will need to take a careful look at President Bush's use of warrantless wiretaps and determine the right balance between protecting our security and safeguarding our civil liberties. This is a complex issue. But only by working together and avoiding election-year politicking will we be able to give our government the necessary tools to wage the war on terror without sacrificing the rule of law.

So, I will be supporting the Patriot Act compromise. But I urge my colleagues to continue working on ways to improve the civil liberties protections in the Patriot Act after it is reauthorized.

I thank the chair and yield the floor.

JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER POLITICIAN
SAY ONE THING AND BE MISREPRESENTED AS BELIEVING ANOTHER

But I urge my colleagues to continue working on ways to improve the civil liberties protections in the Patriot Act after it is reauthorized.

and has that happened, and did he truly think it would?

That's the point, deej -- you can SAY anything...

yeah if only he could somehow strongarm everyone into believing what he believes. its almost as if he has to work in a representative democracy with people who disagree, representing people who disagree

OK somebody photoshop a wistful Obama's face on Cusack's body holding up that radio, please please please.

fine deej, YOU WIN; how bout all of Ireland's other points?

(I knew that was comin, TH)

http://i28.tinypic.com/fok4fl.jpg

YES

HELL YES

Will America hear the music?

yeah if only he could somehow strongarm everyone into believing what he believes. its almost as if he has to work in a representative democracy with people who disagree, representing people who disagree

-- deej, Monday, March 17, 2008 12:32 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Link

morbius only participates in democracy as outlined in the bestselling self-help book 'the secret'

I only participate in democracy as outlined by a mob stoning inbred Southern gangbang nerds.

Love you guys "voting against beliefs" = cleareyed virtue. No wonder THESE ARE GREAT CANDIDATES!

http://blogs.usatoday.com/onpolitics/2008/03/usa-todaygallup.html?csp=34

........

I only participate in democracy as outlined by a mob stoning inbred Southern gangbang nerds.

ILEpitaphs

heh...The college I work at in PA just sent around a flustered e-mail about the security risk posed by the flood of Obama campaigners showing up on campus.

lock up your daughters!

How much does it benefit to McCain to get to fly to Iraq and look concerned/Presidential while the Democrats are still giving each other purple nurples?

considering he's there at the same time as Dick Cheney, who's calling the war a 'successful endeavor', and that their travel to the area provides a context in which journos can write up the newest suicide attack... debatable.

they also get to bring up mccain's "safe stroll through the marketplace" accompanied by gunship helicopters

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/03/17/obama_plans_speech_on_race_1.html

guess we'll see whether the Wright thing gets put to bed

According to WaPo, Obama's giving a speech tomorrow in PA. About race.

In the comments following the report I saw this, it's part of a larger post:

When Senator Obama's preacher thundered about racism and injustice Obama suffered smear-by-association. But when my late father -- Religious Right leader Francis Schaeffer -- denounced America and even called for the violent overthrow of the US government, he was invited to lunch with presidents Ford, Reagan and Bush, Sr.

Every Sunday thousands of right wing white preachers (following in my father's footsteps) rail against America's sins from tens of thousands of pulpits. They tell us that America is complicit in the "murder of the unborn," has become "Sodom" by coddling gays, and that our public schools are sinful places full of evolutionists and sex educators hell-bent on corrupting children. They say, as my dad often did, that we are, "under the judgment of God." They call America evil and warn of imminent destruction. By comparison Obama's minister's shouted "controversial" comments were mild. All he said was that God should damn America for our racism and violence and that no one had ever used the N-word about Hillary Clinton.

Dad and I were amongst the founders of the Religious right. In the 1970s and 1980s, while Dad and I crisscrossed America denouncing our nation's sins instead of getting in trouble we became darlings of the Republican Party. (This was while I was my father's sidekick before I dropped out of the evangelical movement altogether.) We were rewarded for our "stand" by people such as Congressman Jack Kemp, the Fords, Reagan and the Bush family. The top Republican leadership depended on preachers and agitators like us to energize their rank and file. No one called us un-American.

Who is s/he?

http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/03/a_last_minute_hurdle_erected_i.php

The proposed primary re-vote legislation in Michigan prevents those who've voted in the Republican primary from voting in the re-vote.

Fair enough, right?

But about 32% of the those who voted in the GOP primary, according to the exit polls, were Democrats or independents.

It's a fair bet that many of them were Obama supporters, as he was not on the original Michigan ballot.

This could be a dealbreaker for the Obama campaign in Michigan.

xpost Someone called Frank Schaeffer, who I cross referenced in HuffPo, where he contributes. In the WaPo blog post he continues:

My dad's books denouncing America and comparing the USA to Hitler are still best sellers in the "respectable" evangelical community and he's still hailed as a prophet by many Republican leaders. When Mike Huckabee was recently asked by Katie Couric to name one book he'd take with him to a desert island, besides the Bible, he named Dad's Whatever Happened to the Human Race? a book where Dad also compared America to Hitler's Germany.

The hypocrisy of the right denouncing Obama, because of his minister's words, is staggering. They are the same people who argue for the right to "bear arms" as "insurance" to limit government power. They are the same people that (in the early 1980s roared and cheered when I called down damnation on America as "fallen away from God" at their national meetings where I was keynote speaker, including the annual meeting of the ultraconservative Southern Baptist convention, and the religious broadcasters that I addressed.

Today we have a marriage of convenience between the right wing fundamentalists who hate Obama, and the "progressive" Clintons who are playing the race card through their own smear machine. As Jane Smiley writes in the Huffington Post "[The Clinton's] are, indeed, now part of the 'vast right wing conspiracy.' (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jane-smiley/im-already-against-the-n_b_90628.html )

Both the far right Republicans and the stop-at-nothing Clintons are using the "scandal" of Obama's preacher to undermine the first black American candidate with a serious shot at the presidency. Funny thing is, the racist Clinton/Far Right smear machine proves that Obama's minister had a valid point. There is plenty to yell about these days.

damn i read some schaffer back inna day, never saw the nazi ish. the strain ran through all his work though. didn't know his son had moved left?

He could have moved left. More importantly, someone pointing out the blindingly obvious about the religious right from his vantage point has to be taken seriously by those he criticizes.

somehow I don't think that's going to happen.

(ie partisanship trumps logic every time)

full transcript of Obama on News Hour here:

http://thepage.time.com/transcript-of-obamas-interview-on-newshour/

^^^ so sharp

dmx speaks out on the presidential race

Are you following the presidential race?
Not at all.

You’re not? You know there’s a Black guy running, Barack Obama and then there’s Hillary Clinton.
His name is Barack?!

Barack Obama, yeah.
Barack?!

Barack.
What the fuck is a Barack?! Barack Obama. Where he from, Africa?

Yeah, his dad is from Kenya.
Barack Obama?

Yeah.
What the fuck?! That ain’t no fuckin’ name, yo. That ain’t that nigga’s name. You can’t be serious. Barack Obama. Get the fuck outta here.

http://www.xxlmag.com/online/?p=20332

that fucking guy

You’re telling me you haven’t heard about him before.
I ain’t really paying much attention.

I mean, it’s pretty big if a Black…
Wow, Barack! The nigga’s name is Barack. Barack? Nigga named Barack Obama. What the fuck, man?! Is he serious? That ain’t his fuckin’ name. Ima tell this nigga when I see him, “Stop that bullshit. Stop that bullshit” “That ain’t your fuckin’ name.” Your momma ain’t name you no damn Barack.

So you’re not following the race. You can’t vote right?
Nope.

Is that why you’re not following it?
No, because it’s just—it doesn’t matter. They’re gonna do what they’re gonna do. It doesn’t really make a difference. These are the last years.

But it would be pretty big if we had a first Black president. That would be huge.
I mean, I guess…. What, they gon’ give a dog a bone? There you go. Ooh, we have a Black president now. They should’ve done that shit a long time ago, we wouldn’t be in the fuckin’ position we in now. With world war coming up right now. They done fucked this shit up then give it to the Black people, “Here you take it. Take my mess.”

Right, exactly.
It’s all a fuckin’ setup. It’s all a setup. All fuckin’ bullshit. All bullshit. I don’t give a fuck about none of that.

We could have a female president also, Hillary Clinton.
I mean, either way it doesn’t matter. I don’t care. No one person is directly affected by which president, you know, so what does it matter.

Yeah, but the country is.
I guess. The president is a puppet anyway. The president don’t make no damn decisions.

The president…they don’t have that much authority basically?
Nah, never.

But Bush pretty much…
You think Bush is making fuckin’ decisions?

He did, yeah, he fucked up the country.
He act like he making decisions. He could barely speak! He could barely fuckin’ speak!
Can’t be serious. He ain’t making no damn decisions.

Well Barack has a good chance of winning so that might be something.
Good for him, good for him.

posted and discussed above

i dont read above theyre just gonna do what theyre gonna do i aint really paying mch attention

CNN: NO FLORIDA DO OVER

lolz Florida incapable of holding an election

oh god so it begins

hahahahah bill sez "if dems used the same delegate allocation rules as the republicans, then hillary would be ahead"

"if hilary had won more votes, then hilary would be ahead"

Bill comes back out of the woodwork = Beginning of the end for Hil

If Dems used the same rules, Gore would be finishing up his second term.

if i were in charge dmx would be president

DMX/BDP fresh for '08

CNN: NO FLORIDA DO OVER

Where are you seeing this?

on CNN

No, I know, there's just nothing on the website right now.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/

Thanks.

give it up Hillary pt 9 million

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v208/jcoombs/03-17-08_1523.jpg

uh waht

guy at the market told me i was the third person to snap a cell phone pic of that

uh why leave it up

some weird berkeley free speech thing?

Ask the guy for his fucking Sharpie in the name of free speech plz.

he forgot "bitches"

"Sen. Obama holds up his original opposition to the war on the campaign trail, but he didn't start working aggressively to end the war until he started running for president*. So when he had a chance to act on his speech, he chose silence instead," Clinton told an audience at George Washington University.

*vomits blood of murdered children*

t he didn't start working aggressively to end the war until he started running for president

she's one to talk eh

seriously this election has made me hate the Clintons more than I perviously thought possible

lolz Bubba "rebutting" Sinbad re: Kosovo trip

xp
Indeed. I was so happy at the start of this campaign - 'two candidates I would vote for!'

But all this makes me question not just Clinton, but half of the Democratic Party too.

I'm only a "democrat" for the purposes of primary voting. If I lived somewhere with open primaries, I'd never declare party affiliation.

Tracy Morgan on SNL responding to Tina Fey's Hillary endorsement 3 weeks ago: "Bitch may be the new black, but black is the new president, bitch."

-- Johnny Fever, Saturday, March 15, 2008 6:23 PM (2 days ago) Bookmark Link

SNL hates youtube:

http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/video/play.shtml?mea=229454

Hey, Newshour's on!

If this still has the same full head of steam on Monday as it did on Friday, then I'll be worried. Joe Public forgets about politics on the weekend, though.

-- Johnny Fever, Saturday, March 15, 2008 7:15 AM (2 days ago) Bookmark Link

obama's big speech on wright and the role of race in the campaign going on soon

Link to live stream please?

Shakey, I wasn't aware that CNN/Opinion Research Corporation polls were now binding plebiscites.

i can't watch it as i'm at work but there should be a streaming link @ cnn.com front page

Found one, there's a shit-ton of American flags and they're waiting.

Wow, dude filling "airtime" on the cnn stream is sooooooo awful.

drudge has the prepared text of the speech up:

http://www.drudgereport.com/flashos.htm

it's on

lol.

well, I'd love to audit his constitutional law class.

that drudge text is really good.

Faulkner quote! I LOVE YOU OBAMA!!!!!

That one's knocked out of the park. I'm so ready for that guy to lead this country.

lol, he bit a WJC line

It's interesting watching the Corner flail a bit on the speech. Even Lopez only admits to seeing 'nits,' which figures (in that they're trying to overblow them).

Faulkner quote!

"I'm hard to get, Steve. All you have to do is ask me."

This isn't going away, but this is a damn fine attempt at damage control.

"I'm hard to get, Steve. All you have to do is ask me."

?

(he helped write the screenplay/it was on tv the other night)

oh is that Big Sleep reference? okay gotcha

To Have and Have Not

where will Obama "lead" us? No one has a clue. (and I voted for him)

obama will lead us through the stargate, duh

Damn, this is so good.

I think he knocked that one out of the park

The Corner looks flummoxed:

Well there is something honest about that. To be disloyal would be wrong, because it's hard to believe Obama hasn't known for quite a while what Wright was all about. Talking about "bitterness," he's excusing Wright for his extremes ... and he's saying, White folks, meet 'the black community.' We're part of America too, just like my white grandmother who was afraid of black men walking on the street. We're America, and we're coming together through me.
--------------
He's good. And Hillary Clinton saw it coming ... why she's wisely said that a speech isn't an achievement. If "white guilt" votes, Obama just won the nomination. The election is another thing, because Wright is still YouTubed and there is still the 3 A.M. phone call you want McCain, if any of those running, answering.

is there a stream of this shit that fucking works

fuck cnn

here's an entire you tube of the speech:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jwj0gLriTnk

nice try

wow that speech

WTF?

The strange thing about this speech is how much better it reads than it sounds. Obama’s speeches are usually the other way around: as written they’re cringe-inducing piles of painfully meaningless platitudes, but Obama gives them passion and cadence and makes them sound great. This speech as written is pretty deft and intelligent; it’s serious and interesting and is about the most effective way available to him to deal with the Wright mess, though it’s still unsuccessful in the end. But as delivered it is amazingly bloodless and dull; part moral hectoring part awkward defensiveness.

eh he def went for a more sober than usual tone - it seemed totally appropriate

Afred, is that from the Corner?

Yup.

Reactions are mixed (Goldberg: "It had some lovely moments and he came across as a remarkably classy and decent guy"; meanwhile K-Lo knows in her heart that only guilty white liberals could feel touched by this piece of oratory).

i'm not down with "israel's not the problem, radical islam is!"
also not down with "welfare made black people's problems worse"

i guess dude's got to play that game, though

regardless of what's actually in his head about such issues

let the gross simplifications commence!

i'm not down with "israel's not the problem, radical islam is!"
also not down with "welfare made black people's problems worse"

I guess I'm that much closer to not casting my meaningless November vote.

(if tracer's simplifs are accurate)

but this - freakin bravo:

"But the anger is real; it is powerful; and to simply wish it away, to condemn it without understanding its roots, only serves to widen the chasm of misunderstanding that exists between the races."

my hat, were i wearing one, would be off -- a politician who's actually going THROUGH the difficulty instead of around it!!? now i've seen it all

morbs, those were points mentioned in passing and hardly the central points of his speech (although I'm not really down with those two points either).

i think an overlooked landmine lurking in wright's sermons was his condemnations of israel, which could be very easily exploited in the g.e., not necc as anti-semitic but as proof that obama doesn't have the right grounding and framework to lead america internationally, so he's heading this off at the pass

welfare snipes have become de rigeur for democrats, like some penance for the party having once supported generous unemployment benefits, decades ago

"israel's not the problem, radical islam is!"

I'm down with this. Israel's not anywhere near blameless, but fuck radical islamists.

He's not talking to Democrats all that much, here, he's talking to the electorate as a whole.

I'm not a Democrat, and he aint talkin to me

morbs, did you read or watch the speech?

no, he's talking to people who might be skeptical about voting for him, many of whom are Democrats

fuckin sweet speech

Great speech. I'm a Democrat, I already voted for him, and I hope to do so again in November.

Wow that speech!

As someone who doesn't know what to fill out for ethnicity on the census (can I just mark "everything"?), this one really hit home.

super-minor quibbles aside (as noted) - this speech is amazing

"We can pounce on some gaffe by a Hillary supporter as evidence that she’s playing the race card, or we can speculate on whether white men will all flock to John McCain in the general election regardless of his policies.

We can do that.

But if we do, I can tell you that in the next election, we’ll be talking about some other distraction. And then another one. And then another one. And nothing will change."

i wonder how whiny pundits will get about this one

Am I insane to think this speech has somehow managed to net an advantage out of the whole Wright controversy? It was an excellent speech, speaking directly and tolerantly to a deeply uncomfortable issue, and integrated flawlessly into his larger campaign themes. I suppose it depends on how it will play in the media and what clips the news shows pull from it, but I'm optimistic as the initial reactions have been overwhelmingly positive.

Just echoing what everyone else has said - incredibly stunning speech.

Predictable grumbling from the right about how Obama hasn't "transcended" race at all, but none of the Obama guys I know speak of him in transcendent terms.

(speaking for myself, I got bored in the last few minutes)

also, nice touch calling his candidacy 'imperfect,' sounding humble but not chastened.

wasn't obama's entire point that america itself hasn't transcended race?

xpost

I'm not a Democrat, and he aint talkin to me

Fair enough, Morbs, but be honest; you subscribe to a fairly minority political point of view in the US and this man wants to get elected.

I noticed Obama's own eyes seemed to glaze as he discussed welfare inequalities, as if he knew he was making a concession; he's much better when he articulates contradictions. In that sense, it's one of the best I've ever head. Rarely do you see a pol who accepts his own paradoxes and expects voters to be adult about it.

Fair enough, Morbs, but be honest; you subscribe to a fairly minority political point of view in the US and this man wants to get elected.

I'm not sure I've ever seen Morbs explain what he's for; only who he's against.

The anecdote at the end about the mustard sanwiches or whatever was a bit bizarre.

I doubt if this speech will make a lot of difference either way. People already impressed with Obama will be even more impressed. People who are not so impressed are probably not at this stage of the game going to be aroused by transcendental calls to unity. For people who think he's 'too black', a speech about race is only going to entrench those feelings, whatever the speech's ultimate message.

That story wasn't bizarre to me. Kids do the damnedest things when financial matters throw their families for a loop.

RW: Pundits be whinin'.

The speech needed to be effective rather than a stunnah, in the 'speak softly so people must pay attention carefully' mode. This it was. Also love the judo move of saying disowning Wright would be akin to disowning black community. Obama/Judo 08

Many of the header links to stories start with 'Obama refuses to disown pastor' but I just got the MomCall (the only reason this is interesting is because she's an avg 63 y/o swing voter with grievances and zero concept of identity politics and they don't post here much). She reckons a) he's out of the woods and b) she doesn't think the GOP will try to restart this if he's the nominee. To the second point: wait! 527s? She also thinks the Clintons are behind every single smear including releasing the Wright bats.

yeah, I've had enough of the mustard sandwiches, though i'll take them over the cleft palate. the speech will have a big impact on the media. how that impact translates to voters - i.e. how the nets edit and play it - will determine how it impacts voters.

the flipside is the purchase wingnuts will gain by isolating certain statements and asking what they mean

well, hopefully the speech addressed and resolved the wright storyline well enough for the major news outlets to let it drop (until the fall, that is).

the speech will have a big impact on the media. how that impact translates to voters - i.e. how the nets edit and play it - will determine how it impacts voters.

-- gabbneb, Tuesday, March 18, 2008 6:39 AM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

this^^^^^

Poll: McCain, Obama, Clinton in dead heat

i'm starting to get sick of this too-close-to-call bullsh1t

via Ambinder: "CBS News is reporting that eight years worth of Hillary Clinton's schedule as First Lady will be released tomorrow by the National Archives."

comment there: attempt to draw attention away from Obama's speech?

yeah the Wright flap has sucked up her oxygen for a while

imna have a mustard relish sandwich right now!

yeah, the mustard sandwich lobby has Obama firmly in their grip

i'm starting to get sick of this too-close-to-call bullsh1t

It's a bit suspect that they're taking a "margin of error of 3%" to mean they're dead level.

It would be just as fair to have the 3% error swing the other way and say "Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton would both statistically kick Republican John McCain's ass in a general election matchup, a new CNN/Opinion Research Corporation poll indicates."

nah, the release of her schedules has been in the pipeline for at least a few weeks as I recall reading about the disclosure of those documents before. no clue as to whether those schedules will be an asset or liability for the clinton campaign, it will probably cut both ways. xxpost

8:30 am = Make small talk with Malawi president
8:45 am = Approve ghost-written bits of It Takes a Village
9:30 am = Nap.

fantastic speech

8:30 am = Make small talk with Malawi president
8:45 am = Approve ghost-written bits of It Takes a Village
9:25 am = Phone the Irish, get them to sign peace treaty
9:30 am = Nap

you forgot 3:00 am - answer Batphone

Charles Murray, author of The Bell Curve, reacts:

I read the various posts here on "The Corner," mostly pretty ho-hum or critical about Obama's speech. Then I figured I'd better read the text (I tried to find a video of it, but couldn't). I've just finished. Has any other major American politician ever made a speech on race that comes even close to this one? As far as I'm concerned, it is just plain flat out brilliant—rhetorically, but also in capturing a lot of nuance about race in America. It is so far above the standard we're used to from our pols.... But you know me. Starry-eyed Obama groupie.

the sherriff is a-near, indeed

I just finished watching the video in full (it's up at Youtube). Wow.

link?

Dude probably scribbled that speech out in 20 minutes on the back of an airsick bag on the way to Philadelphia.

just reading that speech was pretty :-O

you think he wrote a considerable portion of this himself? The NYT alluded to it earlier today.

wtf is limbaugh talking about
http://thepage.time.com/limbaughs-reaction-to-obamas-speech-on-race/

he was reported to have been working on the speech through 2am last night

you think he wrote a considerable portion of this himself? The NYT alluded to it earlier today.

-- Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Tuesday, March 18, 2008 1:04 PM (31 seconds ago) Bookmark Link

i dont doubt that he wrote much of it
the campaign alluded to him staying up until 3am the night before writing it

Wow, that is the sound of one limbaugh flailing, desperate to find a fingerhold on a smooth surface

I am boggling at the reaction of Bell Curve dude.

YouTube video is down already :-(

Oh wait - go to video.google.com & search "obama race speech" - one of those must be the full speech

Limbaugh can't figure out that Americans DO see each other as members of ethnic groups while not seeing themselves as victims.

Full speech: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWe7wTVbLUU

you can also locate it at the obama campaign website

Also Watching Now (27)

no elmo, I haven't had time to read it yet. And I can't say I'm looking fwd to it based on the pulls.

"that elevates what is wrong with America above all that we know is right with America"

As someone said, Clintonite tripe.

"a view that sees the conflicts in the Middle East as rooted primarily in the actions of stalwart allies like Israel,"

"Like" Israel? Just to, y'know, pick one stalwart Middle East ally at random. I may vomit.

Richardgwm (44 minutes ago)
-3
Reply
Do we really want a President who is an eloquent speaker?

We've just spent seven years under a President who is an eloquent speaker, and look where it has gotten us.

man stfu morbius you secondhand hack

thanks jf

yeah for real morbius please stfu

maybe you should stick to panning movies you haven't seen, morbs >:P

We've just spent seven years under a President who is an eloquent speaker, and look where it has gotten us.

hahahahahaha

what do you expect him to say Morbs? I'm sure that Obama has a more nuanced view of the situation in the mideast than "ISLAMIC TERRORISTS HATE OUR FREEDOM", but to implicate Israel or American Foreign Policy in any way would just not be a good move at all politically. And Obama is a politician, when it boils down to it. A moral and forthright politician? Yes. But a politician nonetheless, I don't really blame him for that

i support any speech that causes morbius to vomit

Morbs, you know your Gore Vidal – you don't get elected preznit unless you appease the Israeli lobby.

wait I thought Morbz hated Gore Vidal

I am boggling at the reaction of Bell Curve dude.

^ this

elmo, where on the Obama site? I can't find it and youtube is blocked at work.

I'm totally unfamiliar with the Bell Curve dude - Ned/Dan care to explain?

this speech is serious

no Shakey, i am FOR Gore Vidal, to answer Rock Hardy.

I'm well aware that Obama is a pol, thx. Which is why I can't get into any of this. Have fun with yr messiah.

I am boggling at the reaction of Bell Curve dude.

^ this

-- Ned Raggett, Tuesday, March 18, 2008 8:17 AM (58 seconds ago) Bookmark Link

http://ifoughtthelaw.cementhorizon.com/stop-posting.gif

Morbs please never shut up