This pointless thread was inspired by a sentence in which people would have "visibility into" something. (At least "visibility" is still correctly used as a noun there.)
Also: what's up with the passive voice? It is considered deeply uncool in the business world to say, flatly, "we will do X?" Or is that too risky, too liable to prompt questions like "how will you do X?" and "hey, didn't you say you were going to do X?"
― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 12 July 2006 20:55 (seventeen years ago) link
― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 12 July 2006 20:58 (seventeen years ago) link
― -- (688), Wednesday, 12 July 2006 21:38 (seventeen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 12 July 2006 21:39 (seventeen years ago) link
― Alicia Fucking Silverstone (sexyDancer), Wednesday, 12 July 2006 21:43 (seventeen years ago) link
― StanM (StanM), Wednesday, 12 July 2006 22:03 (seventeen years ago) link
― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 12 July 2006 22:07 (seventeen years ago) link
― daniel striped tiger (OutDatWay), Wednesday, 12 July 2006 22:20 (seventeen years ago) link
But maybe this easy slippage of words from one part of speech to another is actually laying the groundwork for the future merger of English and Chinese?
― Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Wednesday, 12 July 2006 22:23 (seventeen years ago) link
― The Milkmaid (82375538-A) (The Milkmaid), Wednesday, 12 July 2006 22:32 (seventeen years ago) link
― Tracey Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 12 July 2006 22:39 (seventeen years ago) link
I use terse straightforward language in emails and such at work, and I pepper them with lighthearted humour as well - and people are often completely disarmed by this. However my boss likes it, so I don't care. I don't need to make people think I'm some kind of cleverpants by mangling english to do so.
― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 12 July 2006 23:14 (seventeen years ago) link
― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 12 July 2006 23:17 (seventeen years ago) link
― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 12 July 2006 23:19 (seventeen years ago) link
"Creative" is interesting because you can actually trace the way it changed parts of speech: first you assemble a creative team, and then you start talking about the output from "creative," and then pretty soon you just call the output itself "creative," in noun form. (E.g., "we need wireframes and creative by tomorrow morning.") I think a lot of it works that way for fairly sensible reasons, having to do with the heirarchies and bureaucracies of a big business team. That doesn't make it not weird in print, though.
Milkmaid, I was actually thinking about the number of words that probably had to undergo these sorts of changes for us to have a language at all -- kind of funny to imagine a bunch of people standing around a very long time ago and bitching about this horrible livery jargon where they use "harness" as a verb.
― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 12 July 2006 23:27 (seventeen years ago) link
― jhoshea (scoopsnoodle), Wednesday, 12 July 2006 23:28 (seventeen years ago) link
This process is less business-speak per se than a regular source of nouns in English, isn't it ("representative", "homosexual")? In effect, an adjective by itself carries a nominal force, and therefore easily crosses the line to become a bona fide noun. This goes back at least to Latin; where especially participles (which in themselves are adjectives which are forms of verbs haha) are used as nouns, e.g. "candidatus"; most English nouns in "-ent"/"-ant" etc (student, president) are also taken directly from Latin participles.
And obv "creative" is an adjective, I'm half asleep.
FOR HOW LONG??? "We must effort to further creative our business advertise, in order to captivity a larger assemble of customers!"
― The Vintner's Lipogram (OleM), Wednesday, 12 July 2006 23:28 (seventeen years ago) link
― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 12 July 2006 23:32 (seventeen years ago) link
― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 12 July 2006 23:41 (seventeen years ago) link
― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 12 July 2006 23:43 (seventeen years ago) link
― Trayce (trayce), Thursday, 13 July 2006 00:22 (seventeen years ago) link
(previously known as "boarding")
― nabisco (nabisco), Monday, 17 July 2006 20:07 (seventeen years ago) link
― Paul Eater (eater), Monday, 17 July 2006 20:34 (seventeen years ago) link
― Paul Eater (eater), Monday, 17 July 2006 20:38 (seventeen years ago) link
― Laurel (Laurel), Monday, 17 July 2006 20:40 (seventeen years ago) link
― Laurel (Laurel), Monday, 17 July 2006 20:43 (seventeen years ago) link
― jhoshea (scoopsnoodle), Monday, 17 July 2006 22:04 (seventeen years ago) link
So they've seen the concept, but we got you involved so we can make sure they have the ability to do what we've ... concepted.
― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 18:23 (seventeen years ago) link
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 18:59 (seventeen years ago) link
I just hope they don't learn this new term. Ever since I told them I would run a session on weed (identification of exotic plants) I have been at risk of cruel laughter.
― Issadora (Issadora), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 19:28 (seventeen years ago) link
"We got you involved so we can make sure they have the ability to do what ... we've conceived."
"Oh wow, congratulations, I didn't even know you were seeing anyone!"
??
― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 19:31 (seventeen years ago) link
Not as exciting as it sounded at first - she was just agreeing to arrange a meeting.
― Bob Six (bobbysix), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 20:18 (seventeen years ago) link
Thomas Nashe, the English minor poet and satirist, thrown out of Cambridge University in the 16th century for an unknown reason, felt the need — as a modern Merriam-Webster lexicographer put it — “to remedy the surplus of monosyllabic words.” To meet this need for longer locutions, he claimed credit for inventing the suffix -ize, but in 1591, Nashe found himself criticized (as he would put it) for starting the polysyllabic parade.
The -ize still have it. Whenever a new verb is launched using Nashe’s little trick, traditionalists are shocked. Only a generation ago, some academic jargonaut coined prioritize, meaning “give priority to” or “rank in order of importance,” and stiffs like me ran to the ramparts to denounce it as ugly, bureaucratic and unnecessary. Before that, we language mavens gnashed our teeth at the replacement of the simple finish with the pompous finalize, to no avail; both those -izes, and dozens of others, usaged their way into dictionaries.
Now we are faced with the rise of operationalize. Implement was bureaucratic enough as a substitute tool for “carry out,” but the vogue to Nashe-ize the phrase “to make operational” has seized the realm of academe and politics with a rush of just over a million Google citations. “That’s a good goal,” said Senator Hillary Clinton recently about the Bush doctrine to rid the world of tyranny, “now how do you operationalize that in a sensible way.”
My job is to hoot at this Nashe-ization for a few years, supported by the dwindling legion of those determined to stay the course, and then to cut and run with the usage antelopes. But wait: an exception. I am a happy resident of Nashe-ville about the usage — already at the quarter-million mark— of anonymize. Eric Schmidt, C.E.O. of Google, was quoted last month deploring a leak of subscribers’ private data by AOL with “The data as released was obviously not anonymized enough.”
What’s the matter with privatize? Here’s what: that verb was used by some politicians to torpedo what other politicians called “personal accounts” in Social Security. With privatize scaring people away, we privacy nuts needed a new Nasher. It is now provided by anonymize, soon to be followed by anonymization-resistant, the coiner of which prefers to masquerade as a sock puppet.
― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 20:26 (seventeen years ago) link
― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 22:12 (seventeen years ago) link
"gift" is not a verb
― nabisco, Friday, 18 January 2008 20:34 (sixteen years ago) link
says the guy who obviously hates "Night Shift" by the Commodores
― J0hn D., Friday, 18 January 2008 20:44 (sixteen years ago) link
It might sound like "gifted us," but it's actually an arcane and clever pronunciation of "gave it to us."
― nabisco, Friday, 18 January 2008 20:52 (sixteen years ago) link
gave it to us geff itta us gefftta us giftad us gifted us
― nabisco, Friday, 18 January 2008 20:53 (sixteen years ago) link
Also I do not allow for poetic license or rhyme scheme cheating in the legal fine print on a brochure
― nabisco, Friday, 18 January 2008 20:54 (sixteen years ago) link
let's table this discussion and take it off-line.
― gr8080, Friday, 18 January 2008 20:55 (sixteen years ago) link
when/why did this stuff start? i mean, i can't imagine businessmen in the 19th century talked like this.
― J.D., Friday, 18 January 2008 21:02 (sixteen years ago) link
let us acquisitione that spende
― max, Friday, 18 January 2008 21:18 (sixteen years ago) link
actually I think Disraeli has several industrialist characters in his novels that talk like the 19th-century version of this
'It's a booked place though,' said the stranger, 'and no mistake. We have all of us a very great respect for Manchester, of course; look upon her as a sort of mother, and all that sort of thing. But she is behind the times, sir, and that won't do in this age. The long and short of it is, Manchester is gone by.''I thought her only fault might be she was too much in advance of the rest of the country,' said Coningsby, innocently.'If you want to see life,' said the stranger, 'go to Staleybridge or Bolton. There's high pressure.''But the population of Manchester is increasing,' said Coningsby.'Why, yes; not a doubt. You see we have all of us a great respect for the town. It is a sort of metropolis of this district, and there is a good deal of capital in the place. And it has some firstrate institutions. There's the Manchester Bank. That's a noble institution, full of commercial enterprise; understands the age, sir; high-pressure to the backbone. I came up to town to see the manager to-day. I am building a new mill now myself at Staleybridge, and mean to open it by January, and when I do, I'll give you leave to pay another visit to Mr. Birley's weaving- room, with my compliments.'
'I thought her only fault might be she was too much in advance of the rest of the country,' said Coningsby, innocently.
'If you want to see life,' said the stranger, 'go to Staleybridge or Bolton. There's high pressure.'
'But the population of Manchester is increasing,' said Coningsby.
'Why, yes; not a doubt. You see we have all of us a great respect for the town. It is a sort of metropolis of this district, and there is a good deal of capital in the place. And it has some firstrate institutions. There's the Manchester Bank. That's a noble institution, full of commercial enterprise; understands the age, sir; high-pressure to the backbone. I came up to town to see the manager to-day. I am building a new mill now myself at Staleybridge, and mean to open it by January, and when I do, I'll give you leave to pay another visit to Mr. Birley's weaving- room, with my compliments.'
― El Tomboto, Friday, 18 January 2008 21:42 (sixteen years ago) link
and is it wrong of me to also think of the the efforts that go into the decoding of dealer-speak by the cops in The Wire?
― El Tomboto, Friday, 18 January 2008 21:44 (sixteen years ago) link
watch me superman dat hoe
^^^ is no noun sacred??
― gbx, Friday, 18 January 2008 21:48 (sixteen years ago) link
nsfw, obv
like, any trade is full of coded chatter and jargon; is managerial/MBA-jargon really so different from the way colleagues in various other professions talk to one another? Isn't the problem rooted in the fact that managers have to communicate with other workers outside of their typical sphere more often, so us non-managers have to listen to what sounds like insane babble?
― El Tomboto, Friday, 18 January 2008 21:49 (sixteen years ago) link
that is if you separate management/public affairs/general counsel ass-covering neutralized bullshit speak from the conversation. that type of "business-speak" is a whole beast unto itself and has been covered in depth elsewhere
― El Tomboto, Friday, 18 January 2008 21:52 (sixteen years ago) link
I was trying to get at this above -- I actually like word-repurposing when it's interesting or convenient or fun, but a lot of managerial stuff gets to the point where it's making up words to fill in for words that already exist (e.g., the bit about "orientate" upthread). Using "spend" as a noun that means "spending" is just weird.
― nabisco, Friday, 18 January 2008 21:53 (sixteen years ago) link
I'm trying to think of verbs and nouns that get repurposed or abused in my area of work in a similar fashion
― El Tomboto, Friday, 18 January 2008 21:57 (sixteen years ago) link
i just love the idea that this guy is 'trying to sell guacamole' like some roadside vendor
― hoospanic GANGSTER musician (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 1 May 2013 16:04 (ten years ago) link
Re: giacamole in the midwest. Maybe the person quoted is over 55.
Familiarity with and acceptance of 'ethnic' foods has steadily increased in the US since I was born, most especially in the hinterlands. When I was young, yoghurt was exotic, salsa or hummus were unheard of; grocery stores carried only the most basic and familiar of vegetables such as potatos, carrots and onions, but chard, kale, bok choy, jicama and the like were unobtainable. Etc. And I grew up in a largish west coast city: Portland.
― Aimless, Wednesday, 1 May 2013 17:58 (ten years ago) link
when i graduated from college at the turn of the millennium we ate out at an italian restaurant. my midwestern grandmother remarked that she didn't think she'd ever eaten italian food before.
― j., Wednesday, 1 May 2013 18:08 (ten years ago) link
argh, can I also point out the meaningless usage of the word "disruptive?" That word is fucking everywhere now, it's bad enough in startup culture, but for a Taco Bell taco? Do people just think it means "game changer" or something?
― huun huurt 2 (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 1 May 2013 19:04 (ten years ago) link
(which is not to say that a Doritos Locos Taco is really a "game changer" obv)
― huun huurt 2 (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 1 May 2013 19:05 (ten years ago) link
JFC this whole thing is like something out of idiocracy. We're talking about a fucking hard taco shell made out of taco chips, i.e., a hard taco shell.
― huun huurt 2 (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 1 May 2013 19:06 (ten years ago) link
OTM, that word is horrible. There is a whole lexicon of startup words and phrases that send me over the edge.
― I will forlornly return to my home planet soon (dandydonweiner), Wednesday, 1 May 2013 19:10 (ten years ago) link
also, the Disrupt conference is beyond horrible.
In the realm of business, that hard taco shell is translated into mounds of cash. Because mounds of cash are the Most Important Thing in Business Life, it means that a stupid hard taco shell made to mimic flavored tortilla chips must be discussed in terms that bespeak its Ultimate Importance.
― Aimless, Wednesday, 1 May 2013 19:12 (ten years ago) link
A spirited defense of business-speak (at least some of it):
http://epicureandealmaker.blogspot.com/2013/04/in-praise-of-jargon.html
― o. nate, Wednesday, 1 May 2013 19:15 (ten years ago) link
Upstart Taco Bell is really disrupting the taco competition with its innovative powdered taco.
― huun huurt 2 (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 1 May 2013 19:20 (ten years ago) link
more offensive than the entire lexicon of disruptology:
"thought leader"
― I will forlornly return to my home planet soon (dandydonweiner), Wednesday, 1 May 2013 21:05 (ten years ago) link
Hoos that article is an amazing find btw
― huun huurt 2 (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 1 May 2013 21:06 (ten years ago) link
yes, magnificent taco article.
"We knew this was a breakthrough idea, so we put on our relentless hats
― woof, Wednesday, 1 May 2013 21:22 (ten years ago) link
"
the thing I love is the open animosity they have towards "the burger boys"
― I will forlornly return to my home planet soon (dandydonweiner), Wednesday, 1 May 2013 21:35 (ten years ago) link
tbf I think the dorito loco taco would likely be rather disruptive to my digestion, perhaps that's what was meant
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Wednesday, 1 May 2013 21:36 (ten years ago) link
― huun huurt 2 (Hurting 2), Wednesday, May 1, 2013 7:04 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
haha 'disrupt' is what made me realize it belonged itt
― hoospanic GANGSTER musician (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 1 May 2013 22:19 (ten years ago) link
― huun huurt 2 (Hurting 2), Wednesday, May 1, 2013 9:06 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
my secret shame is that i subscribe to 3 different fast company newsletters and they're almost always 1/4 useful stuff 1/2 useless fluff ('this disruptive solar powered toilet is making this african 4 year old a millionaire') and 1/4 incredible gems like this piece
― hoospanic GANGSTER musician (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 1 May 2013 22:22 (ten years ago) link
Like, iirc "disruption" has a pretty specific meaning in econ -- it's an interesting concept, but it's really annoying when it just gets used to mean "thing that is marginally different that what is on the market right now"
― huun huurt 2 (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 1 May 2013 22:35 (ten years ago) link
otm, stuff like this
Airbnb, Coursera and Uber: The rise of the disruption economy
― I will forlornly return to my home planet soon (dandydonweiner), Wednesday, 1 May 2013 23:47 (ten years ago) link
that site has a massively creepy privacy policy/TOS setup, not reading the article
― huun huurt 2 (Hurting 2), Thursday, 2 May 2013 00:17 (ten years ago) link
btw can a spanish-speaker confirm for me that it is (or isn't?) grammatically weird to call it the Doritos Locos Taco? Doesn't that imply that it's the Doritos themselves that are crazy, rather than the taco? Like I thought the point was "Oh shit, a taco made out of doritos, that's crazy!" not "Those crazy doritos have gone and formed a taco!"
― huun huurt 2 (Hurting 2), Thursday, 2 May 2013 01:17 (ten years ago) link
btw can a spanish-speaker confirm for me that it is (or isn't?) grammatically weird to call it the Doritos Locos Taco? Doesn't that imply that it's the Doritos themselves that are crazy, rather than the taco? Like I thought the point was "Oh shit, a taco made out of doritos, that's crazy!" not "Those crazy doritos have gone and formed a taco!" --huun huurt 2 (Hurting 2)
That is accurate and part of what makes the name so lol IMO
― hoospanic GANGSTER musician (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Thursday, 2 May 2013 05:18 (ten years ago) link
Boy Wonder weighs in
Stop “Disrupting” Everything: How a once-useful concept turned into a meaningless buzzword.http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2013/05/disrupting_disruption_a_once_useful_concept_has_become_a_lame_catchphrase.html
― I will forlornly return to my home planet soon (dandydonweiner), Thursday, 2 May 2013 22:00 (ten years ago) link
that fuckin guy
― hoospanic GANGSTER musician (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Thursday, 2 May 2013 22:06 (ten years ago) link
secretly reads ILX?
― huun huurt 2 (Hurting 2), Thursday, 2 May 2013 22:07 (ten years ago) link
Wasn't sure if this belonged here, in the college/debt thread or what, but:
http://www.fastcompany.com/3007541/mfa-new-mba
― THIS IS NOT A BENGHAZI T-SHIRT (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 29 May 2013 13:44 (ten years ago) link
this graf is almost worthy of Friedman:
Artists know the world of adaptability and resourcefulness very well. In fact, according to an annual survey tracking the career trajectories of more than 65,000 artists from hundreds of arts schools, the Strategic National Arts Alumni Project (SNAAP), close to 60 percent of arts graduates hold more than two jobs at once, and approximately 20 percent have more than three.
― THIS IS NOT A BENGHAZI T-SHIRT (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 29 May 2013 13:45 (ten years ago) link
Arts students may not have all the traditional skills, but they have the most important one: desperation creativity.
― the white queen and her caustic judgments (difficult listening hour), Wednesday, 29 May 2013 14:17 (ten years ago) link
I have a particular fondness for articles with the format "HEADLINE POSITING OUTRAGEOUS SUGGESTION"/"Body text quietly suggesting that the answer is 'probably not' at the end of the seventh paragraph, but otherwise arguing an enthusiastic 'YES'"
― THIS IS NOT A BENGHAZI T-SHIRT (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 29 May 2013 14:21 (ten years ago) link
GRAAAAAAAA just received an HR "onboarding" packet & immediately thought to come here to share the horror, but I see it's been covered.
― emilys., Wednesday, 21 August 2013 10:02 (ten years ago) link
Only one thing more patronising than "onboarding". "offboarding".
― mmmm, Wednesday, 21 August 2013 10:05 (ten years ago) link
when i was leaving a job a couple months ago, the board wanted to have a "debriefing" with me. I did not work for the military or for an intelligence agency. This was an arts non-profit.
― not some dude poking a Line 6 pedal with his dick (sarahell), Wednesday, 21 August 2013 10:28 (ten years ago) link
I was not fired from my last job; I was "separated" -- is this a thing?
― #REV! (Stevie D(eux)), Wednesday, 21 August 2013 11:15 (ten years ago) link
"I would expect"
― anvil, Wednesday, 2 April 2014 21:13 (ten years ago) link
what is a corporate workstream and how do i align to it
― everybody loves lana del raymond (s.clover), Thursday, 7 August 2014 17:23 (nine years ago) link
Do what you are told and don't cause problems.
― dustups delivered to your door (Aimless), Thursday, 7 August 2014 17:30 (nine years ago) link
speed
― difficult listening hour, Thursday, 7 August 2014 17:39 (nine years ago) link
don't drown
― j., Thursday, 7 August 2014 17:40 (nine years ago) link
h8 'workflow'
― mattresslessness, Wednesday, 13 August 2014 18:20 (nine years ago) link
i wish work was a flow
― mattresslessness, Wednesday, 13 August 2014 18:22 (nine years ago) link
'solutioning'!!!!#
'here's how we're going to solution it'
argh
― everybody loves lana del raymond (s.clover), Thursday, 14 August 2014 19:30 (nine years ago) link
i never saw eye-to-eye with my old manager, a nice South African lady who nevertheless used to ask me (w/r/t sales strategy) if I was 'building a pipeline'. I literally had no clue what she was talking about, having never encountered this expression and especially with an accent that sounded like she was saying 'bi-plane' :-/
― 3kDk (dog latin), Friday, 15 August 2014 11:40 (nine years ago) link
wow sterl that is a prize specimen
― j., Friday, 15 August 2014 13:38 (nine years ago) link
Building a pipeline = meh. otoh, building a biplane = A+! Then you can fly it instead of attending meetings.
― Aimless, Friday, 15 August 2014 16:24 (nine years ago) link
i've got one more thing i want to cover off
― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 24 September 2014 15:45 (nine years ago) link
i am tired of hearing "triage"
― marcos, Tuesday, 30 September 2014 19:56 (nine years ago) link
Just saw the verb "to feedback", as in
"I'd like to feedback on the excellent level of service..."
― bert streb, Friday, 3 October 2014 00:09 (nine years ago) link
In January 2014 the Government published its response to the Transforming Youth Custody consultation outlining its plans to introduce Secure Colleges, a new form of youth detention accommodation with innovative education provision at its core which will equip young offenders with the skills, qualifications and self-discipline they need to turn away from crime.The consultation response confirmed that a purpose-built Secure College Pathfinder would be opened in the East Midlands in 2017. If the Pathfinder proves successful it will inform our vision for the future of the youth custodial estate in England and Wales.
The consultation response confirmed that a purpose-built Secure College Pathfinder would be opened in the East Midlands in 2017. If the Pathfinder proves successful it will inform our vision for the future of the youth custodial estate in England and Wales.
― sktsh, Thursday, 16 October 2014 10:58 (nine years ago) link