did you leave town? or did you stay?

I don't recall saying I was special and those who have settled were not, nor did I imply this. I was ambitious and people I've known with similar ambitions who thought they could fulfil them in the Cities had to rethink due to glass ceilings being so much lower there. Or is it that hoary old chestnut of otherwise liberal-minded, intelligent young men being freaked out by female ambition? I hope not!

I think he does raise interesting questions about the idea of settling, too - how do you (plural) see the people who didn't move out. I honestly can't think of any of my friends who didn't - but I grew up in a dormitory town anyway, more or less.

Its not the fault of the book Tom, I've always felt this way.

Also, Dan left Mpls and so did Michelangelo.

I left a small village in Dorset to go to University in Glasgow and then left Glasgow to come to London which is where all my friends from schooldays had moved to. I couldn't possibly have gone back to Dorset at that time because it would have driven me mad but I don't necessarily feel the same way now. Some other friends have returned and seem to be enjoying themselves. London can be great but it can also be so infuriating and I really can't see me being here for much more than a year or two more.

And Suzy, I can't speak for Josh but I'd be very surprised if his response was as straightforward as 'fear of independent women'. I had a bit of a 'grr' moment when I first read your post.

Anyway I'm finding out that the more time I spend trying to appease people who think I'm some kind of snotty bitch for wanting a more interesting life, the less time I spend actually leading one. And anyone who thinks that of me doesn't know me very well anyway.

Which is why earlier I raised the question of 'going to the Metropolis to seek one's fortune' as a pervasive narrative that *frames* ambition in very particular ways, and one of its consequences is to implicitly characterise the people who stay (or go elsewhere) as those who've 'settled', whereby lack of physical momentum connotes lack of ambition, willingness to submit to some kind of status quo, inertia. I read that narrative in your posts (rightly or wrongly), although Ronan actually expresses it more bluntly and explicitly. For me it's just a really reductive way of understanding who people are and what they do.

BTW 'settle' also means to make a home. Nothing wrong with that, at least the rents are still cheapish. There is also nothing wrong with lamenting the lack of progress made by talented friends; some of these are writers I've published over here in anthologies and YES they are too bone-tired from their shitty jobs to capitalise on the opportunities that have knocked as a result.

America, sadly, has a much more total urban-rural divide in elections than Britain does: it's part of the reason why the last US election was such a horribly divisive and unfair thing. In the UK, oddly, one of the factors in breaking such a divide down was the movement of people encouraged by the Thatcher government's belief in the flexible market - the economic decline of the old Labour heartlands, and the relocation of London businesses to the south-eastern counties, forced many Labour supporters to move to traditional Tory areas and, often, have a considerable influence on swinging certain marginal seats. Has anything comparable happened in the US?

A shame the perpetrators of that movement of people were the enemies of real progressive change, but it was better than *no* movement of people.

By all accounts things are changing there, but when I was growing up Hastings was such a psychotic, insular town that I took the first opportunity to run and haven't even considered looking back. I've toyed with the idea of moving back to Minneapolis or St. Paul, but it's far too cold a climate for Joei. I have tons of good friends there and of course my parents still live outside of Hastings, and to be fair I will always be grateful for the legion of support the town showed my family when my oldest brother died.

Maybe I should've taken the easy way out and said instead that I never wanted to shovel another bit of snow or rake another leaf out of a back yard. It's a place I appreciate hella more when I'm 5000 miles away from it (Dan is right about Fargo) and want to crack skulls when I'm in the midst of it. Oh, yaah. You bet.

Umm, Dan, it could have been worse. You could have been in Jordan, home of the paedo ring.

So was Albini right and the only person who was convicted was a whistle-blower?

The thing is, I have just found out today that my parents are leaving the NOrth and moving to GLoucester. I won't really be able to come back here properly. And this makes me very, very upset as basically it means my one big tie to where I consider "home" to be gorn. I feel cut off in the North and not so much so in London however. But the thought of not going "home" makes me feel really quite upset. I can't imagine moving back to the small village, no. But I don't see myself living in London permanently.

(Whenever I objected to my parents moving, the reply was always "But we're going to be living there a lot longer than you", so presumably they always expected me to disappear off somewhere, to which I have no objection)

My own answer to this does not exist for I'm a figment of the pop imagination. But what I want to know is WHERE IS EDNA WELTHORPE'S CONTRIBUTION??? It's surely the great theme of her life.

Imagine, if you will, a winter party filled with drunken high school kids. Things being what they are in Hastings, a guy I will call Chuck decided that the perfect time to show off the brand new truck that his parents bought him. He and his best friend, whom I will call Gene, arrived at the party and were a big hit. Everyone was admiring Chuck's truck, including a girl I will call Harriet. Now, Harriet and Gene had had some level of attraction before, but had never done anything about it. At this party, however, there was the right level of booze to make them both feel that they needed to take their relationship to the next level. They both disappeared after a while, but there was so much booze and carousing going on that no one noticed they were gone until Gene wandered into the kitchen. He looked HORRIBLE; everyone thought he'd been beaten up or had fallen head-first into something. He had a drunken grin and his face and wouldn't tell people what had happened to him, but he had blood all over his face and shirt. No one could figure out what had happened until Eve staggered in the front door, hair all askew and buttoning up her jeans. Chuck stared at her, then at Gene, who was looking at Eve all goofily. Chuck then made a remarkable intuitive leap, grabbed Gene by the shoulders and began shaking him. "TELL ME YOU DIDN'T GO DOWN ON HER IN MY TRUCK!" he shouted. Gene could only giggle. No amount of cleaning could get Eve's menstrual smell out of the upholstery, which meant that Chuck was forced to spend the next two months driving around with his windows down. This wouldn't normally be that big of a deal, but this party happened in early January.

The next day, Gene was extraordinarily pleased with himself until he looked in the mirror.

Trouble breathing.

Dan, Hastings seems like Hell on Earth for anyone black - St Louis Park much better quarter for the avoidance of racism because if anything dodgy would have happened there, basketball/football types would have delivered ass-kickings to bigots *tout suite*.

Good story from my school: nasty snot-nosed hyper bully we'll call Toby used to harrass a group of girls inc. me, One day we collectively thought: REVENGE. One of our number was the cousin of a Manson Family member (Squeaky Fromme, I believe). One day we took my red lipstick and scrawled SQUEAKY SAYS DIE DIE DIE! HELTER SKELTER! on his locker. Strangely, Toby maintained a much lower profile from there on out and the graffitistas were never apprehended.

I grew up in East Lansing, Michigan, which is and remains a fantastic place to visit for a few days. After college, I came back home and worked in a comic book store for six months until I woke up on my birthday and thought "What am I DOING?!?" I'd always loved New York, every time I visited, so ten years ago (minus two weeks) I packed everything in a car and drove out here.

Actually, when I drove away from E.L. I wasn't entirely sure if I wanted to go to New York or to Seattle. But I was in the left lane when I hit Highway 80, so New York it was.

I left my home and I ain't ever going back

It's all anticlimax from here on down.

Re: "copycat pregnancies", there was a circle of female friends two years younger than me where one of them got pregnant and all of her friends said "ooh a baby, how cute! I want one too!" and all ran out and got themselves pregnant so they could all be mommies together

there's nothing more i want than to leave this godforsaken place once and for all.

I left, I got dragged back, I hope to leave again.

it would probably make sense to move back! it's a decent place and cheap as hell. can't do it tho -- too depressing

I have considered moving to several unlikely places just because of their names. Like Flatlands. Or Canarsie. Canarsie is kind of a comedy name, really.

marine park and mill basin are nice.

I know but I lived in Midwood for 3 months and for not actually being that much further than other normal places, it took an extra EON to get there after midnight. I just can't.

The Q was skipping stops for construction for most of that time so late-night service was a total crapshoot but still...the number of times I had to pee desperately while still at least 20 minutes from home put me off.

I mean I would get out at Atlantic just to pee at a bar on 4th Ave and then get back on the train, that's how desperate I became. This is not a good look for a grown woman.

haha <3

Stayed in my home town until my mid-late 20s. I'm glad I left, but I miss it, and if I had to move back there I wouldn't mind. It's a proper city, though, and I made my own life there rather than being dependent on school friends.

I live less than a ten minute walk from the flat I grew up in and work a five minute walk from the university I went to. I have never spent more than two months away from London at a time. I would be open to leaving though. I did briefly consider moving to Hong Kong at one point and have recently been looking at jobs based overseas. As much as I love all the things London has to offer, I could see my quality of life being better somewhere else.

Never had a home town cos of multiple moves tbh, but i'd happily settle on achill for a life of contemplation and simple living if theyd sort out the internet

*wonders about wireless on the baja peninsula*

I got the hell out and I'm staying out. My family's home is an island of relative sanity where even though I argue with everyone, they have to put up with me anyway. No one else in the fucking place can stop being racist/sexist/religious for long enough to stop picking their teeth with their toenails. It's actually very pretty there, which makes the people all JOLLY and proud instead of looking as crabbed and mean as they really are.

It's very beautiful where I'm from and my immediate family is the worst part about it, although everyone else is worthy of contempt. I live in the city here where it has felt like too close to home, but I'm discovering that it's further away than I give it credit for.

gave

Not very good at the leaving home thing tbh. Stayed in my small uncool market town until 27, long after everyone I knew and 99% of anyone my age had left, and now I live in a suburb of the nearest city - the nearest suburb to the town I left

(and one which more or less is just another small uncool market town except with more frequent buses and a just-about-walkable distance to the city centre, which I go to even less often than I did before I lived here. some people in this city go to London multiple nights a week for the nightlife, but to me London is another planet entirely)

I mainly live like this because it's the easy way out and I'm lazy, but I could stand to be less afraid of the unknown, it's true.

I've ended up living about half a mile from where I was born, which was never really an intention, but life's panned out that way. Grew u about ten miles away in a seaside town, left for university, came back intending not to be at home more than about three months, met a girl, got a job at the university, and slowly a girlfriend became a wife and a job became a career, and ,y wife started a career at the same place, too. We're lucky that where we live and work has been on an upward curve for the last decade, and we've ridden that: we've not suffered because of the recession at all (in fact we made a small profit on our flat which we brought in 07 at the 'height' of the market). Neither of us intended staying in this part of the world, but it's beautiful, the city, though small, is a great place to live, and we've got a lot of friends here now. A lot of my friends moved to London or Bristol or further afield; I doubt they're any happy that's we are. Some of them are desperate to come back!

My home town felt pretty toxic for me as a teenager, I'd alienated all the friends I had in my neighbourhood by going to public school, and the few friends I had at school all lived elsewhere anyway. I used university as a way to move away, although the town I ended up going to university in was pretty rubbish as well. Eventually a friend and I moved to London in 2001 and I've been there since. Unfortunately all the friends I had in London have since moved away (couldn't afford/didn't want to bring up kids in London, or for work etc). Most of the negativity I had for my home town has gone now, but I can't really see myself moving back there.

Left but not soon enough.

My favorite song ever on the subject. (Because I want it to be--I don't even think it actually is.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmWW8pZS7ys

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmWW8pZS7ys

w the exception of my first year of college, I have lived in san antonio my whole life.

i left town directly after high school, and then a year later my parents moved to another city, and then moved again. so i haven't had a "home" in a long time (boo hoo, poor me, waah). i keep moving every 3-4 years to a new city, so i wherever i am never feels like home either.

When I came back after college and living on my own, I had the attitude that I would only be home for a little while before moving on again.

That was 18 years ago.

I'm starting to feel like a yo-yo, and my home town is the hand. Age 18, left town, 4 years away, came back for 3 years. Went away for 3 years. Came back, been here ever since (11 years at the end of this April).

We'd moved house 16 times by the time i was 16, i moved out at 17, what is 'home' pls

left the first chance i got - 21 years ago. closing in on the point where I'll have lived where I live now longer than I lived in that very stupid and dumb town. my parents still live there. it is still crappy.

Most of the crappy people who were here while I was growing up left while I was away, so it's considerably less crappy here now. Or maybe just the same number of crappy people, just a different set who I'll never have much occasion to be in contact with.