Tootsie: Classic or Dud?

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I've never seen Tootsie in its entirety. but what I have seen I liked, maybe I'll put it on the rentl list..

Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 9 August 2005 23:20 (8 years ago) Permalink

Am I remembering this correctly that he has no credit in the film at all -- no appearance in the cast list etc."

Yup. And, if apocryphal data is to be believed, Murray ad-libbed most of his role. The scene between director Sydney Pollack and Hoffman in the former's office was also improvised.

Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 23:24 (8 years ago) Permalink

I remember this being the first movie that wasn't a Disney cartoon (helllooo The Fox & the Hound) to affect me on an emotional level.
I also remember watching AFI's greatest 100 some 17-odd years later and Dustin Hoffman breaking down during the interview, lamenting the treatment of "conventionally unattractive" women in modern society. i won't lie... that shit got to me, dude.

Will (will), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 05:08 (8 years ago) Permalink

oh, yeah. Classic.

Will (will), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 05:09 (8 years ago) Permalink

classic. if only for dr brewster singing outside the window.

piscesboy, Wednesday, 10 August 2005 09:38 (8 years ago) Permalink

1 year passes...

revive for Hoffman's 70th birthday. If it's not his best performance, and I'm not say it isn't, it's at least my favorite movie of his.

kenan, Wednesday, 8 August 2007 16:20 (6 years ago) Permalink

George: You played a TOMATO and they went half ad ay over schedule cuz you wouldn't sit down!
Michael: Yes. It was illogical.
George: You were a TOMATO! A tomato doesn't have logic! A tomato can't move!

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Wednesday, 8 August 2007 16:23 (6 years ago) Permalink

Pauline Kael was right in saying its biggest weakness is the sentimental pap that impersonating a woman could make an egomaniacal fuck like Dorsey 'nurturing.'

I saw it at a packed preview screening the weekend before it came out and it got some of the biggest laughs I've ever heard.

Dr Morbius, Wednesday, 8 August 2007 16:25 (6 years ago) Permalink

the whole tomato speech is classic

Michael Dorsey: Are you saying that nobody in New York will work with me?
George Fields: No, no, that's too limited... nobody in Hollywood wants to work with you either. I can't even send you up for a commercial. You played a *tomato* for 30 seconds - they went a half a day over schedule because you wouldn't sit down.
Michael Dorsey: Yes - it wasn't logical.
George Fields: YOU WERE A TOMATO. A tomato doesn't have logic. A tomato can't move.
Michael Dorsey: That's what I said. So if he can't move, how's he gonna sit down, George? I was a stand-up tomato: a juicy, sexy, beefsteak tomato. Nobody does vegetables like me. I did an evening of vegetables off-Broadway. I did the best tomato, the best cucumber... I did an endive salad that knocked the critics on their ass.

kenan, Wednesday, 8 August 2007 16:27 (6 years ago) Permalink

Until Titanic it had the longest consecutive #1 streak (15 weeks).

Kael's right, but the movie ends in a stalemate. I don't see Julie putting up with his shit, and they do walk away arguing as the credits roll.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Wednesday, 8 August 2007 16:27 (6 years ago) Permalink

hm.


1982, Best Picture:
"GANDHI" (winner), "E.T. - The Extra-Terrestrial", "Missing", "Tootsie", "The Verdict

wtf is "Missing"?

kenan, Wednesday, 8 August 2007 16:30 (6 years ago) Permalink

Costa-Gavras on Chile, w/ Lemmon & Spacek

Dr Morbius, Wednesday, 8 August 2007 16:32 (6 years ago) Permalink

Ben Kingsley beating Dustin Hoffman is one of the great Oscar crimes.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Wednesday, 8 August 2007 16:32 (6 years ago) Permalink

it really is -- gandhi is nigh unwatchable for me anymore

kenan, Wednesday, 8 August 2007 16:33 (6 years ago) Permalink

6 months pass...

brand spanking new 2 disc shiny 25th anniversary dvd out now!

pisces, Friday, 29 February 2008 19:39 (6 years ago) Permalink

About damn time; the current DVD looks like it cost $2.50 to manufacture.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Friday, 29 February 2008 20:37 (6 years ago) Permalink

hopefully footage of Hoffman & Pollack discussing motivation, for real

Dr Morbius, Friday, 29 February 2008 20:42 (6 years ago) Permalink

hoffman *screen test* footage!

pisces, Saturday, 1 March 2008 04:15 (6 years ago) Permalink

NO!

roxymuzak, Saturday, 1 March 2008 04:46 (6 years ago) Permalink

Hoffman's performance: classic; actual movie: somewhat less so, but still really good.

Eric H., Saturday, 1 March 2008 17:27 (6 years ago) Permalink

2 years pass...

"Maybe there's a morals clause in Dorothy's contract in case she does something filthy and disgusting. The problem is, I can't think of anything filthy and disgusting you haven't already done."

Filmmaker, Author, Radio Host Stephen Baldwin (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 16 June 2010 22:34 (4 years ago) Permalink

it's pretty amazing how concentrated & fast moving this is compared to what it would be like if it were made now. i have to say i like the film and i find it funny but the fact it's so distilled removes some of the verisimilitude that would help you buy into the situation. in no way am i wishing the film were an hour longer (as it would be now) but it needs a little more imo, especially in the initial stages.

jed_, Wednesday, 16 June 2010 23:11 (4 years ago) Permalink

The first hour and fifteen is the best, especially the pre-Dorothy moments!

Filmmaker, Author, Radio Host Stephen Baldwin (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 16 June 2010 23:32 (4 years ago) Permalink

One of my favorite lines ever, from Murray: "That is one nutty hospital." Deserves to be a famous as Some Like It Hot's final line.

clemenza, Wednesday, 16 June 2010 23:35 (4 years ago) Permalink

What's odd is how Michael Dorsey becomes Dorothy no questions asked.

Filmmaker, Author, Radio Host Stephen Baldwin (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 16 June 2010 23:36 (4 years ago) Permalink

George Gaynes' last line is just as good: "Does Jeff know?"

Filmmaker, Author, Radio Host Stephen Baldwin (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 16 June 2010 23:36 (4 years ago) Permalink

I think retelling that story about my parents calling the cops on that guy put me in a foul mood all the rest of the day. I didn't realize how deeply angry this incident still makes me!

breaking that little dog's heart chakra (Abbott), Wednesday, 16 June 2010 23:41 (4 years ago) Permalink

Wait...wrong thread. SOrry.

breaking that little dog's heart chakra (Abbott), Wednesday, 16 June 2010 23:41 (4 years ago) Permalink

I think retelling that story about my parents calling the cops on that guy put me in a foul mood all the rest of the day. I didn't realize how deeply angry this incident still makes me!

from Bill Murray's drunken American Indian monologue?

Filmmaker, Author, Radio Host Stephen Baldwin (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 16 June 2010 23:43 (4 years ago) Permalink

A beautifully surreal detour...To answer your original question, an absolute classic. I think my two favorite "mainstream" films (whatever that means) of the past 30 years--certainly my favorite comedies--are Tootsie and Broadcast News. I never tire of either. George Gaynes, Coleman, Teri Garr, they're all fantastic. I'm laughing just thinking of the way Garr says "Will I ever see you again?" after she and Hoffmann have sex.

clemenza, Wednesday, 16 June 2010 23:49 (4 years ago) Permalink

"Sex changes things" (looks curiously at her breasts under the cover).

Filmmaker, Author, Radio Host Stephen Baldwin (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 16 June 2010 23:54 (4 years ago) Permalink

I still think that first half hour or so has the most accurate depiction of struggling actors/writers/whatever in a big city i've ever seen; doing shitty jobs, going to reads, having parties, getting nowhere and waiting for a break and suchlike. Going back to it a few years ago i realised i'd forgotten all that section because of the farce/ romance/ etc stuff that comes after.

piscesx, Thursday, 17 June 2010 00:22 (4 years ago) Permalink

it's so distilled removes some of the verisimilitude that would help you buy into the situation

Jesus God.

kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 17 June 2010 00:26 (4 years ago) Permalink

9 months pass...

for some reason i was convinced for years that ed o'neill was in this movie

cum dude (Princess TamTam), Thursday, 7 April 2011 18:53 (3 years ago) Permalink

2 months pass...

better before dorothy comes along?

It's a pretty creepy stunt for everyone to just get over in the last five mins, i may be asking too much.

Darranzhi MacKhakhala (darraghmac), Monday, 4 July 2011 21:59 (3 years ago) Permalink

The writing and acting are so sharp that the Dorothy stuff works on its own: huffy soap actress falls for young costar.

The Edge of Gloryhole (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 4 July 2011 22:18 (3 years ago) Permalink

maybe, but i agree with upthread comment- traded punchiness for sentimentality with the emergence of the 'love story' angle.

Teri Garr and Pollock were great in their roles, picked it up whenever they appeared

Darranzhi MacKhakhala (darraghmac), Monday, 4 July 2011 22:42 (3 years ago) Permalink

ha that's not to say the leads let it down, obviously.

Darranzhi MacKhakhala (darraghmac), Monday, 4 July 2011 22:44 (3 years ago) Permalink

I constantly go around saying, "This is a coast too, George. New York is a coast."

The Edge of Gloryhole (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 4 July 2011 22:50 (3 years ago) Permalink

yeah the throwaways were a cut above alright

Darranzhi MacKhakhala (darraghmac), Monday, 4 July 2011 23:01 (3 years ago) Permalink

8 months pass...

The Les-Dorothy exchanges underrated.

DURNING: Another drink?

DOROTHY: No -- I have to keep my wits about me tonight.

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 24 March 2012 13:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

Man he sure is a jerk to Sandy!

Dale, dale, dale (Abbbottt), Sunday, 6 May 2012 19:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

I liked this from an interview w/Terri Garr:

Tootsie (1982)—"Sandy Lester"

TG: I just saw that again recently. I hadn't seen it in twentysomething years. And it's the same thing! Pretty, nice girls being taken advantage of by slimy men. They put a man in a dress, and he's supposed to know what it feels like to be a woman. But of course he doesn't. I think what Dustin [Hoffman] says is, "I realize now how important it is for a woman to be pretty. And I wasn't pretty." God! That's all you realized? Jesus Christ. Oh well. Don't quote me. Actually, quote me.

AVC: You play this very neurotic character who's full of self-loathing, who's desperate for attention, yet somehow, she's sweet and likeable. Was all that indicated in the script, or was that something you brought to the role?

TG: I think that's something that I was or am. Likeable? I guess, yeah. But neurotic, yes. It was right at that time in history when feminism was rearing its ugly head, so I read all these books like The Second Sex, and that's where I got that line, "I know I'm responsible for my own orgasm." [Laughs.] I read that sentence and I thought, "What does that mean?" I didn't even know. I thought that [Sandy] was caught between trying to have a career and trying to be a sexual woman, and it just doesn't work. At least it didn't in that movie, because it was made by sexist men. I can say that now, because Sydney [Pollack] isn't with us anymore. [Laughs.] But he was a fine director.

AVC: But you thought he was sexist?

TG: Oh, yeah! I think so. He just wanted the beautiful, blond, cute, shiksa girls to be nice and shut the fuck up! [Laughs.] God, I'm bad. But that's what he wanted. And that's what the world wants, I think. I'm bitter. Bitter!

Dale, dale, dale (Abbbottt), Sunday, 6 May 2012 19:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

I mean Sandy's a real dipdy-doo in the movie, begging for Seconal after a bad party, but it kinda made me mad that the script lets Hoffman be the only woman in the movie with her wits about her. I liked the movie, it's funny, blah blah my feminist this 1983 just called.

Dale, dale, dale (Abbbottt), Sunday, 6 May 2012 20:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

Also Dustin Hoffman was a hot dude back in the day! Straw DOgs kinda made me forget that bcz of how loathsome he was in it.

Dale, dale, dale (Abbbottt), Sunday, 6 May 2012 20:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

Michael does treat Sandy shabbily but it's to the script and Garr's credit that she's awesome anyway.

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 6 May 2012 20:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

Hilarious interview, by the way. She's otm about Lange getting nominated in the wrong category.

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 6 May 2012 20:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

"What a good idea, a socket for a plug."

Dale, dale, dale (Abbbottt), Monday, 7 May 2012 03:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

xpost yeah that was unfair, but tptb felt that Lange was due for an award, and knew that Streep was a shoo-in for Best Actress, so...

nostalgia: this was the last movie our family (parents, 10yo sister and myself) all went out and saw together. my sister was particularly delighted with Murray's "You slut!" and the cattle-prod line.

Race Against Rockism (Myonga Vön Bontee), Monday, 7 May 2012 09:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

Teri Garr on fire all through that interview! She was a doll on "Sonny & Cher" too, even w/ the often crappy writing.

World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Monday, 7 May 2012 15:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

1 year passes...

this is kind of amazing:

some dude, Sunday, 7 July 2013 20:05 (1 year ago) Permalink

the Terri Garr quote a few posts up seems like kind of a retort to possibly when Hoffman said something similar in simpler terms (or maybe she's simplifying/paraphrasing), but still, I like how he puts it there.

some dude, Sunday, 7 July 2013 20:08 (1 year ago) Permalink

whoa! I wasn't expecting that last line.

A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 7 July 2013 20:20 (1 year ago) Permalink

I've expressed my love for the film many times. That clip's a little hard to watch in its Bobby Bittmanesque "As a comic, Sammy, in all seriousness"...I'm sure Hoffman's quite sincere in what he says, which is maybe part of why the film's so good: he was making one movie while everybody else worked around him making another.

clemenza, Sunday, 7 July 2013 20:25 (1 year ago) Permalink

wow hoffamn rocks there!

i lost my shoes on acid (jed_), Sunday, 7 July 2013 21:18 (1 year ago) Permalink

I remember seeing that clip when the AFI ran their list show. I think he added something like "I know it's a comedy, but comedy is serious business."

the evening dj there (Eric H.), Sunday, 7 July 2013 21:32 (1 year ago) Permalink

I saw this film once, during its initial release, in a theater. Not since then. My only impression of it was that it was moderately funny, but not hilarious, and the so-called pro-feminist message in it was so watered down, so shallow, so reductionist, that it seemed no different than any other over-hyped mainstream Hollywood movie. But at the time I still had a few intellectual bones in my body. Maybe today I'd laugh like a jackass.

Aimless, Monday, 8 July 2013 04:24 (1 year ago) Permalink

tbh i've never even watched this movie, i just liked that DH interview

some dude, Monday, 8 July 2013 10:49 (1 year ago) Permalink

movie is great. DH clip is amazing, too.

Puff Daddy, whoever the fuck you are. I am dissapoint. (stevie), Monday, 8 July 2013 10:58 (1 year ago) Permalink

But at the time I still had a few intellectual bones in my body. Maybe today I'd laugh like a jackass.

haha this shouldn't be a binary

A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 8 July 2013 11:02 (1 year ago) Permalink

2 months pass...

"What a good idea, a socket for a plug."

― Dale, dale, dale (Abbbottt), Sunday, May 6, 2012 11:21 PM

first I think it's time I kick a little verse! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 21 September 2013 02:25 (10 months ago) Permalink


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