Do I need to call an exorcist for my girlfriend?

Your girlfriend is possibly having a simple linguistic interplay which may have to do with previous experiences during her nightly astral sojourns ("dreams") which are taking her to a part of her akashic memory she's unconscious of when awake (as most of us are - and for good reason!).

-- Paul in Santa Cruz (pauls...), May 13th, 2005.

He usually is.

That's some fucked up shit.

"What?" I asked "Do what?"

"You rearranged the room!"

"What? No I didn't" At this point she started to actually wake up. When she was conscious, she explained to me that she thought I had "rearranged the room according to the fibonacci sequence."

-- Alex in NYC (vassife...), May 13th, 2005 4:59 PM. (later)

...

When she was conscious, she explained to me that she thought I had "rearranged the room according to the fibonacci sequence."

-- Hurting (Hurtingchie...), May 13th, 2005 5:08 PM. (later)

No, THAT'S some fucked up shit. Like, I can't even get my head around the concept.

-- Hurting (Hurtingchie...), May 13th, 2005 5:08 PM. (later)

No, THAT'S some fucked up shit. Like, I can't even get my head around the concept.

-- Sasha

No, you're both wrong. It's unbelievably sexy. Hurting, you should marry her.

She sounds cool.

Kat: whats wrong what hurts?
Me: my ear hurts
kat: why does it hurt?
me: cause i poured washing up liquid into it, dont worry its lemon fresh.

what?

when she told me the next day i couldnt stop laughing.

"CHARLIE!! CHARLIE!! WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU THINK YOU'RE DOING!!!???"
Me: "What? What?"
"THE GOLD! THE BLOODY GOLD! IT'S WORTH MONEY! WHAT DO YOU THINK YOU'RE DOING?!"

and then sleep.

Hurting, is this the same girl as in this thread? Dating Someone Who Suffers Panic Attacks

Vichitravirya XI, what about an entity VOLUNTARILY remaining in a person's causal body? You can't exorcise that shit?

-- rattanman (webcorp...), May 13th, 2005.

I apologize for my writing being so unclear, as usual (when I don't edit and think too rashly). In reference to volition, I meant to say that it applies in regards to the occupant's will as well: a voluntary "visit" is indicative of mediumship, in which the occupant "invites" a spirit to come inhabit the occupant's conscious mind. From what I've read, this visit is almost always voluntary on behalf of the spirit's will as well (and when it isn't, you're in for some trouble). It is termed "avishkara" in Sanskrit, and was a frequent practice in many Tantric circles, and probably a few Vedic ones too.

An involuntary "occupancy" used to be termed "possession," with the occupant's regular mind and personality becoming submerged into the subconscious (as if in a deep sleep), with the spirit (or demon - Jinn in Arabic civilizations, which we should remember could be "good or evil") regaining the control of the physical and causal/ etheric bodies. This is rare, but it's in such cases that an exorcism would be necessary: when you can test and tell that the person or individuality you know is not there any longer, and in his or her place is someone or something else identifying with that particular body (which allows it to exercise control over its functions). The question then boils down to not only if one believes in souls, spirits, demons, disembodied beings and the like, but also what one thinks of the limits of con-con-consciousness, the nature of the individual mind and Personality/Identity (and the limits of their individualities) and the very ontological existence of any unimpeachable "objective" perception that is able to measure or denote these factors in the first place. (Who are _you_ to decide what's "real"...can't you and your world be relatively unreal to these entities as well?)

To follow that, from wikipedia, on exorcism:

In recent times, Exorcism has diminished in importance and use. This is due mainly to a greater understanding of psychology and the functioning and structure of the human mind. Many of the cases that in the past might have been candidates for exorcism have been found to be the products of mental illness . These cases are treated through medical means instead of exorcism, although some religious persons believe that certain psychological disorders are actually spiritual problems - generally the more severe types such as Dissociative Identity Disorder and Schizophrenia.

A slight digression here, but in my opinion, Schizophrenia is a very complex issue that is not at all understood in any level of "depth" by our precious modern-western scien-psychologists (I have to keep bringing up that cultural bias label when discussing any spiritual issues on ILX, forgive me). I don't think it's a full on "spiritual problem," as opposed to a mental one...I believe all - every single one! - of our mental illnesses are of course "spiritual problems" at their root, as they are caused by some imbalance (as described in, say, Ayurveda) between our souls, minds and bodies.

But this does not mean that I think every "schizophrenic" or those diagnosed as such are being possessed by evil demons - hardly. I think they are genuinely "mentally ill," but that the base of their strange perceptions which we'd like to term hallucinations is what I'd like to describe as an "astral rupture," or some sort of painful and sever break on an astral level of functioning, that is breaking off the "filter" regular people have between astral (dreamlike) images and experiences, and the waking, sensual perception of objects and the external world that us "sane" folk behold. Meaning that those demonic green cats they see walking up and down the wall may very well be real to them and completely individual to their perception, as they are experiencing such entities (I don't like using the term "phenomena") in a visual and auditory manner that you or I might experience objects and persons in a dream: wholly individualistically, independent of the "outer" and "waking" world of sensory stimuli. (Only in a few prophetic myths from antiquity do two different characters have the same exact dream...usually pertaining to an imminent war, drought, flood or some such calamity!)

From this conjecture, we can hypothesize that some deep "psychic" (used in the "deep recesses of the mind" definition of the word, not the predictive) malfunctioning is taking place. Obviously, for example, the people who are locked up for years claiming to truly be Napoleon are not (as we know there was already a figure as such in this external, wakeful reality who lived and died some two centuries ago), and it is very, very, very, very unlikely that in their crisis of astral processing and astral stagnation that they have managed to channel Napoleon Bonaparte's spirit into their severly weakened etheric bodies, to communicate with the rest of us.

But I am interested in these issues for other reasons. To further draw upon the conjecture of an individual consciousness functioning on an independent astral plane... does this mean that every or even any what-we-term-schizophrenic is beholding an independent reality, a relative reality that is unrelated to the external "objective" world-reality that all of us are communally experiencing? To change direction now: when we all have individualistic dreams and experience such dream-worlds every night, how are we to prove that any "objective" reality is our one and supreme, and not the temporary meaningless plane of existence we label the former on the basis of Little Time Spent There? Is Time not relative in and of itself? If consciousness is so highly mutable as to be affected grealy by chemical substances, its "standarization," if I can term it that, is a bit of a problematic issue. Especially in regards to those who claim to have "experiences" [(I hate re-using the same words, but I blame the redundancy of this limited Engrish language...it's been said ((can you guess where?)) that for every mental, psychological and spiritual term in English there are at least 20-40 in Sanskrit, but I believe such a claim to be a bit lofty)] in which they've left not only their temporary minds but also their temporary personality-identities, and experienced an alternative state of being in which "consciousness" as communally experienced, has a vastly different meaning, and in which "individuality," as we define it, does not necessarily exist! Heavens! Someone should revive some of those yoga-samadhi threads from last year that I never got to; a bit of Jung could be referenced here as well (and if someone else does the former, I vow to do the latter).

At this point, I don't know how I feel anymore about any state of one Absolute Objective Reality, despite typing to a message board that is ostensibly connected to a "world wide web" spun around it, and despite the inadvertent mention of "drugz" four sentences ago, which I am pretty sure I'm not on any. The question of indivualistic astral realities may be difficult to fathom by itself, but not anymore so than the notion of infinitesmal micro-worlds, universes, or other such theoretical conjectures in the field of quantum physics. What such conclusions would mean for the Question of Identity - which as far as I'm concerned is a mutable construct anyway, dependent as it is on the environments produced by successive lifetimes of the soul's "jouney" - is unimaginable, as it destroys the concept of any particular identity to become defined by one's temporary consciousness. Hell, even Baudrillard's points on Postmodernist Identity could be referenced here in a "spirit" of indulgent and generous admiration, ([and admiration would be all I'm willing to grant them, as I loathe most western and particularly french philosophy of the past three cetnuries when the ironically "Enlightenment" began to render any metaphysical conjecture absolutely-obsolete]) making a good case of the relativism of Identity in a most hollow intellectual manner, but such references are unnecessary when it comes to articulating my world view. For it's more indicative of a theoretical _integrity_ if I invoke the fact that in the Vedas, Identity was already proclaimed to be a constant _inconstant_, dependent as it is on reincarnation, and that the notion of a "split mind" would, perhaps perversely to modern individuals, not bother some of those ancient sages as much as it does us - precisely because we're living in an inarguably more "individualistic" society.

And that mention of the Vedas brings up another request, that the issue of dreams be not instantaneously shrugged off in the culture-specific and arrogant, modernist view of "Science has already explained them!!" manner that couldn't be further from the truth, for in the Vedantic teachings of the Upanishads the very question of "is the dream wurld REEL or the is REAL wurld REEL" was already being rigorously examined millenniums ago, and no blinking evidence from merely the last _century_ is going to indefinitely answer the quandary of consciousness to, well, some of us who dream of different things. If we can't even agree on a synthesized definition on the parameters, functions and attributes of the Subconscious, we're most _definitely_ not defining the Superconscious, or precluding its very existence evremore.

At the very least, at this moment in Ti...er, Existence, all I fell comfortable in saying is that when it comes to the matter of consciousness, I can only accept the premise of temorally-and-spatially-independent Relative Realities, each one simultaneously (?) playing out in their own spheres or cosmic planes. Our dreams are astral sojourns that remain independent of the temporal or spatial parameters we place on our sensory existence (for we've all had dreams where the dream-world lasted days or even weeks but we were only sleeping for an hour, for one example), but how much each dream is a component of subconscious "residual" psychological projection and conscious astral movement is as subjective and differentiated as the state of waking is for each one of our highly-individualized 6 billion worlds down here, every one quite, QUITE different from the rest!

[[[ I am already quite aware that a few major points I made in this post are predicated on strongly held _assumptions_ of a metaphysical nature, and that if I don't define the term "astral" right here - which I probably cannot without reviving some other thread and launching further into highly idiosyncratic (on Godless, soulless ILX) views on... philosophy and, yes...astral-o-logy that I know by now no one would want me to do - I'd be descending into an even steeper tautology. So I hope to refrain from getting further into such semantic issues with those who have such divergent world-views from me that they cannot converse sans condescension, as I have before. ]]]

And I don't even know why I modified this monster post halfway thru with that "request" at the top for any sort of serious answerz since I'm going to be gone at work all day and won;'t even be able to really read this shit.

So just...carry on. Ignore all that I guezz

Posting for an hour starting at 3 something AM and getting lost in your own ILXed head: dream or nightmare?

In this dream play, as in his former dream play "To Damascus," the Author has sought to reproduce the disconnected but apparently logical form of a dream. Anything can happen; everything is possible and probable. Time and space do not exist; on a slight groundwork of reality, the imagination spins and weaves new patterns made up of memories, experiences, unfettered fancies, absurdities and improvisations.
The characters are split, double and multiply; they evaporate, crystallise, scatter and converge. But a single consciousness holds sway over them all- that of the dreamer. For him there are no secrets, no incongruities, no scruples and no law. He neither condemns nor acquits, but only relates, and since on the whole, there is more pain than pleasure in the dream, a tone of melancholy, and of compassion for all living things, runs through the swaying narrative. Sleep, the liberator, often appears as a torturer, but when pain is at its worst, the sufferer awakes- and is thus reconciled with reality. For however agonising real life may be, at this moment, compared with the tormenting dream, it is a joy.

No wait. I'm just summarizing Unfaithful.

I suggest some DMT. *shrug*

hurting, your girlfriend sounds cool.

...or wait, i mean to say that i have hairy nipples!! don't mock or denigrate me!!

I hate reading virtually everything I've written in the past - except, for some reason, ILE posts.

Haha, I'm in the kitchen, and I hear her calling out something that sounds like a question. I walk into the bedroom, and, appearing to be fully awake she asks "The P is poofy?" and I say "What?" and she says, grinning, "The P is poofy again?" and I say "What does that mean?" and she says "It's poofy!" looking like a happy toddler and goes back to sleep.

what the hell ever happened to Vichitravirya XI anyway

Got taken by aliens for having too much knowledge.

I still think the fibonacci furniture rearrangement thing is really damn awesome :D

i used to sleep walk/talk on a nightly basis when i was a kid, mostly (i think) due to stress. one time, my mum came into my room and found me at the foot of my bed and when she asked me what i was doing, i told her i was "trying to find the pictures for the tv". another time, i was sharing a room with my older bro and he had come home late one night only to find me sitting up in bed with my eyes wide open. he started talking to me but i didn't respond. he thought i was just being a goof but quickly realised something wasn't right. he went and got my parents, and they couldn't wake me up - i just sat there staring straight ahead and apparently not blinking (altho i think that's probably a gross exaggeration) for about 15mins. my parents thought i was possessed. eventually i just lay back down and closed my eyes.

another time, when i was a bit older, i woke up, standing naked under a cold shower with my mother screaming in my face. pretty traumatic. stupid woman never learned after all those years that you should NEVER try to wake someone while they'll sleepwalking - it's incredibly frightening. especially if you're in a cold shower.

I've always wanted to do the Linda Blair routine. Wouldn't that be utterly cool? Just y'know, go up 'n' down on the bed. Not necessarily spin my head or anything like that.

When she was conscious, she explained to me that she thought I had "rearranged the room according to the fibonacci sequence."
-- Hurting (Hurtingchie...), May 13th, 2005 5:08 PM. (later)

No, THAT'S some fucked up shit. Like, I can't even get my head around the concept.
-- Sasha

No, you're both wrong. It's unbelievably sexy. Hurting, you should marry her.

-- moley

hurting 2 - you DID end up marrying her, right?

Sod the exorcism, record her rambles and use 'em as samples in some wikkid choons man!
-- Trayce (trayce), Friday, May 13, 2005 3:43 AM (2 years ago) Bookmark Link

yes i love this

Fuck yeah I married her ; )

awesome :)

moley to thread: tell me who i'm gonna end up married to!

this thread is so cute. your wife sounds rad, hurting!

I can totally understand the concept now. What a difference two years makes.

Ha, I used to do something like this. My dad would sometimes pass room at night and find me sitting up in bed, eyes open with a crazed grin on my face. He'd tell me to lie down and go back to sleep and I would.

I also had a habit of laughing in my sleep. I guess it runs in the family because I've heard my little brother do it. It's both adorable and creepy.

I am glad there's a witness to the poofiness! P was getting overlooked for real.

Oh yeah, I forgot to add that a couple of weeks ago she woke up and said, "Mar Mar Mar...SHMAR!" She then told me, "That's what the kids say."

lolled for 30 seconds straight

Ah my fave thread. I posted this one on FB the other day but bf said whinily in sleep "I dont WANNA be the king of Moomba!".

Another recent one:
"Why is everything a thing? 90 degrees, zero degrees, straight up and down!"

i woke jordan up last night by pulling the covers off him, then sleepily said 'oh sorry, i was looking for the birds in my dream'. no recollection what i was dreaming about, or why they would be on top of my husband, under the covers...

Last night:

Her: No!
Me: No?
Her: No. Don't do anything with the capitalists.

***
later:

Her: Tights! Tights!

Just got: "It's just a warm hole, stick it in there."

lol

Damned if u do,etc

B (in his sleep): ....I dont believe you!
Me: Huh?
B: I'm sorry, I'm very confused now...which side should I be on... your side probly... fuck them! You did the right thing.
Me: uh.... thank you?

B: ... I came out of that alright I thought!

way to go B

I wonder what he thinks he got away with, haha.

A Catholic friend today is to undergo an exorcism at 3:30 Eastern. She has been through all the psychiatric diagnostics the Church requires. This is real. This is a horrifying situation, like something out of the movies. Her husband asked me to beg your prayers.

— Rod Dreher (@roddreher) November 15, 2018

Wow, that IS like something out of the movies.

http://www.joblo.com/newsimages1/333923-full11.jpg

do non catholics ever need catholic exorcisms do they

It is a well-known fact that solely Orthodox exorcisms are effective post-Great Schism.

whats a sizzum?

to answer that, you need to know the pizzarts

lizzol

how long does an exorcism take? should we be checking back at 3:45 eastern or will it last through supper?

anyone got the link to the Twitch livestream

why are converts always getting mixed up in weird shit like exorcism?

maybe because of weird shit like exorcism

schism flizzum exorcism

[rod dreher voice] Chelsea Manning is deluded, as there’s no such thing as “being trans”. now plz excuse me, I need to go cast some Harry Potter spells on my friend’s wife so she will poop out the fearsome demon Belphegor pic.twitter.com/1IbTzzmlLV

— KT NELSON (@KrangTNelson) November 15, 2018

krang otm as ever

how long does an exorcism take?

http://imgur.com/BBzdsiNl.png

The book Hostage to the Devil is crammed with useful info. How can you tell if you have a demon? "Violent physical transformations seem sometimes to make the lives of the possessed a
kind of hell on earth. Their normal processes of secretion and elimination are saturated with inexplicable wrackings and exaggeration."

sounds like my teenage years

Actually thinking about how fucked this exorcism shit is. This is most likely a woman with schizophrenia or some other mental condition that leads to her not sharing consensus reality, shall we say, and they're telling her "it's because you're possessed by a malevolent supernatural force", should be criminalized tbh.

to be fair exorcisims are exceedingly rare, plus how the fuck do you know

dreher seems to have recounted the story of the couple in question before:

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/nathan-story-occult-sabrina/

a sick, sick man

Mind you, Nathan is one of the least woo-woo friends I have. Again, he works as what you might call a “symbolic analyst” in a very worldly occupation, and lives in one of the biggest and most secular cities in America. He’s been a faithful Catholic for as long as I’ve known him, but not especially interested in that mystical side of the faith.

“Once you’ve seen reality through the eyes of spiritual warfare,” he told me yesterday, “you can’t go back. It’s everywhere.”

He told me other detailed stories, including accounts of bizarre, poltergeisty things happening in their apartment, and his wife being unable to stand the presence of blessed objects (a classic sign of possession). Again, readers: if you knew these people, Nathan and his wife, you would be even more shocked by all this than you are now. This is the kind of family that takes European vacations, and lives a sophisticated cosmopolitan life. And yet this horror has overtaken them. The wife goes through periods in which she hears foul blasphemies, and feels compelled to commit suicide. In the exorcism sessions, Nathan says the demons, under compulsion from the exorcist, speak of these things — in particular, how they intend to destroy Nathan’s wife, and her family life.

Kronsteen1963 says:
October 3, 2018 at 2:00 pm
In the summer of 2000, my father-in law passed away. He was a devout Christian and spent the last 6 weeks of his life at his home under Hospice care. The day after we brought him home, he began to see things. He would look out his bedroom window and complain that he saw 3 men standing in his garden. They weren’t doing anything except staring at his house. We looked out the window and saw nothing. He insisted that they were there and asked us to chase them away because they frightened him.

Later that day, we had some friends over to his house to visit him. During dinner, he pointed towards a friend and asked, “Who is he? I don’t recognize him.” We replied, “That’s our friend Kyle, you know him.” He replied, “Yes, I know Kyle. But who is standing next to him?” There was no one there. We told Dad that we couldn’t see anyone. I asked Dad if this person frightened like the three in the garden. He replied, “No, he doesn’t frighten me at all.”

What did my father-in-law see? I’m sure rationalists have an easy explanation – a dying old man who is having hallucinations. But, he wasn’t drugged up or losing his mind. Until the last two weeks, he was a lucid as you or I, and we had numerous conversations about all sorts of issues.

As a Christian, I have my own ideas of what my father-in-law saw. I believe this stuff is real. The Bible says it is. Jesus, his disciples, and Paul all cast out demons. I fully understand why an atheist would think this is nonsense, but have a tough time understanding why a Christian would.

[NFR: It is common for people in the last days of life to see figures who are invisible to the rest of us — usually people they knew in life, who have since died. Talk to hospice nurses. It’s also in the literature. I don’t think there is necessarily anything sinister about this stuff. Though my father’s hospice nurse did tell me that once she had a patient who screamed in his final moments that demons were dragging him to Hell. It unnerved her. He was an Episcopal priest, she said. — RD]

Mind you, Nathan is one of the least woo-woo friends I have. Again, he works as what you might call a “symbolic analyst” in a very worldly occupation, and lives in one of the biggest and most secular cities in America.

love these bits he always puts as a preamble that are implicitly saying "this person isn't a bumbling rube from buttfuck nowhere therefore this deeply superstitious and irrational behaviour of his can't be put down to lack of sophistication, but must instead be grounded in fact"

fuck i shouldnt have opened this thread in the dark

u kno wut they say

This is the kind of family that takes European vacations

Probably picked up some kind of evil infection when they were over there.

Love the use of “Again, readers” there — it really adds to the atmosphere and sense that this is an insane man who believes he’s privy to insider occult intel.

Did I never outline the time B sleepwalked into the kitchen one morning (there had, to be fair, been a LOT of drinking the night before) and proceed to ramble to me in a flawless Irish accent about how he had to be sure they'd cut the RED wire, and not the BLUE wire, or else the whole thing would blow up, and we had to hurry or the others'd be after us.

It was like he was channeling someone else and was reaaaally disconcerting.

Did he pee on the rug right after that?

Thankfully no.

before, then

Probably my favourite ILX thread, the phrases "did the envelope pengalope" and "is there bingling", will never leave me.

the fibonacci sequence is my fav

Days when i wonder whether i need to summon a demon for my wife but that's another thread

ive a couple sleep-talking stories i hadn't recounted itt

my ex-wife, still sleeping, once woke me up at about 6am to ask me "can i taunt (sic) you to a chicken pizza?"

my friend jonny, sleeping in a travel lodge while the rest of us were still awake from all the drugs, turned over in bed, sat up, and shouted "Kelly Clarkson".

didn't sleep talk, and i never have night terrors, but a few times in dreams where it appears i'm going to get stung, bitten, etc by an animal (which happens a lot), i've actually thrown myself out of bed.

one of these times i was dreaming I was fleeing a shitload of bees (enough to kill me) and I was jumping into the water to escape them and in the process I actually rolled out of my bed and faceplanted my cheek onto the oak dresser next to me, woke up bleeding.

I'd forgotten about B being sad about catbus leaving the bed, hahahaa.

B, in his sleep: “I think I’m going to go lie down now”.