Socialism vs Capitalism

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taking sides

― anthony, Wednesday, 5 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

I'm a socialist. I've spent a lot of my time working with handicapped kids (my brother for one) and I can't help wondering what place they would take in the whole 'out for oneself' capitalist ethos.

― Will, Wednesday, 5 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

i thought tom's answers on thread were terrific

i'm a libertarian socialist contrarian wiv a disdain for theories which require bodies w/o organs

organs are kewl

― mark s, Wednesday, 5 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

(however in a look-after-thine-own-HTML society i wd clearly sink quickly)

― mark s, Wednesday, 5 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Socialism. The idea I was talking about before I was envisioning as more socialist that communist.

― Nude Spock, Wednesday, 5 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

I'm with mark s with sydacalist tendancies

― Ed, Wednesday, 5 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

I'm with mark s with syndacalist tendancies

― Ed, Wednesday, 5 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

I think I'm just one to say why don't the damn taxes go more towards social programs. Sigh.

― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 5 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Socialist parties in Canada blew a monkey goat, no comptent personal in them once you get east of Manitoba.

― Mr Noodles, Thursday, 6 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

here's a question: in the oh 1890-1930 timeframe, when the US was arguably far more "capitalist" than it is today (no welfare system, no medicaid/medicare, etc) it seems like "public works" and civic infrastructure building had hit some kind of zenith. massive projects like Central Park, huge and magnificent museums, entire systems of public transport envisioned and built. now, with our national wealth pissing from a great height on what we had then, even in this "recession", NYC is wondering how it will ever finance an east- side subway line, all while slashing millions of dollars from the education budget. how in the world did our forebears ever DO all that stuff?

― Tracer Hand, Thursday, 6 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

It's funny - I've been reading Donald Miller's big fat history of 19th c. Chicago which deals with that stuff. Some people say it was the 'Progressive Era', noblesse oblige and all that, but it seems to me that in the U.S., it was just an era of huge expansion, and there was so much building that needed to be done (it was perceived) just so money could be made. That includes cultural institutions, which legitimate cities and induce more wealthy investors to settle. This is how it worked in Chicago at least. Although there probably was quite a bit of Progressive-era "uplift" sentiment - this was certainly true with the founding of universities and such.

One thing's for sure - the rich people from back then are so much more fun to read about. A lot of them came from nothing (but more were middle-class than people assume) and were insecure about that and so spent lavish amounts to 'get culture'. Rich people today don't seem to be nearly as cultured - that's certainly evident in the shitty, unimaginative buildings they finance.

― Kerry, Thursday, 6 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

So was it just charity that made the diff? A thousand points of light?

― Tracer Hand, Thursday, 6 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Not charity, no. If we're talking about infrastructure, the investors wanted that stuff built, but needed the government's help. Like in Chicago, they had to persuade the feds to give them the money for railroads, canals, etc., which is how all of this building got done. It was mutually beneficial, but it wasn't about charity. The government is still spending loads of money - but it's on things like more or wider highways. Tons are being spent on automobile-related transport - only public transportation is suffering. As for the WPA, well, you have to have programs like that to keep the starving masses from getting too pissed off or you'll have to deal with the sort of unrest that characterized the whole late 19-early 20 c.

― Kerry, Friday, 7 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

It's funny, but in Minnesota you're considered noveaux riche and gauche UNLESS you've financed something major at a museum, like a building. Even now. This is why the museums etc. in Mpls. are so good.

There's a really good example from Chicago about modern 'selfless rich folks' - they still exist. My classmate at college was from a social register family but her dad was the Ombudsman for Cabrini-Green. I don't think he took payment for it as the interest on his fortune was sufficient, thanks.

― suzy, Friday, 7 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

He must have had his hands full, wow.

― Tracer Hand, Friday, 7 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

twelve years pass...

idk which thread to put this on, so i dug up a 12 y/o one

http://www.bookforum.com/inprint/021_01/12987

doug henwood reviews thomas picketty's capital in the 21st century

― goole, Tuesday, 8 April 2014 17:29 (ten years ago) link

sitting on the desk in my room right now & going to see him in like a week or two

― markers, Tuesday, 8 April 2014 17:31 (ten years ago) link

fwiw economics - where to begin?

― markers, Tuesday, 8 April 2014 17:32 (ten years ago) link

Capitalism is as much as fairy tale as socialism. Both are tools of the oligarchy.

― ▴▲ ▴TH3CR()$BY$H()W▴▲ ▴ (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 8 April 2014 17:34 (ten years ago) link

yeah I read that henwood review -- it's really good although i don't exactly feel like reading the book now

― ביטקוין‎ (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 8 April 2014 18:29 (ten years ago) link

picked this up* but haven't started. Think his data is used in that Princeton study that says America is an Oligarchy?

*downloaded this to my ipad because woof that's a hefty hunk a book

― Insane Prince of False Binaries (Gukbe), Thursday, 17 April 2014 23:36 (nine years ago) link

Friend currently reading it says so far it's great for the data but he still hedges against using "marxism"

― Insane Prince of False Binaries (Gukbe), Thursday, 17 April 2014 23:37 (nine years ago) link

Why the fuck isn't Picketty's book available on iTunes bookstore?

― très hip (Treeship), Monday, 28 April 2014 01:01 (nine years ago) link

Wait Gukbe, how did u get this on ur iPad?

― très hip (Treeship), Monday, 28 April 2014 01:04 (nine years ago) link

did you get yours?

anyway, buy it on the kindle store in a browser and then download the kindle app if it's not on the ibookstore and you want a digital copy. i got this one in paper via amazon, but i'm reading another book in the kindle app on my ipad right now

― markers, Monday, 28 April 2014 02:03 (nine years ago) link

surprised that the ibookstore wouldn't have it, but they don't always stock the same shit. i still use the kindle app most of the time tho anyway

― markers, Monday, 28 April 2014 02:04 (nine years ago) link

yeah, i don't see it there. kindle is the way to go. they own a much larger chunk of the ebook market, and it isn't too surprising publishers would be more concerned with getting their wares up there. the ibookstore is also limited to ios devices, while the entire kindle deal is more platform agnostic, although i think you're shit outta luck if you have a non-kindle fire android device.

― markers, Monday, 28 April 2014 02:05 (nine years ago) link

Got it on the kindle app xposts

― Insane Prince of False Binaries (Gukbe), Monday, 28 April 2014 05:04 (nine years ago) link

I drunkenly berated Peter Klein on Jekyll Island off the coast of Georgia last year when I was there for a wedding and he was there for a Mises Institute conference. Nice guy, actually. Still, lol @ austiran school response: http://organizationsandmarkets.com/2014/04/23/notes-on-inequality/

― Insane Prince of False Binaries (Gukbe), Monday, 28 April 2014 05:05 (nine years ago) link

four years pass...

Trump: Immigration is terrible.
Public: Support for immigration is at an all-time high.

Trump: Trade is terrible.
Public: Support for trade is at an all-time high.

Trump: Socialism is terrible.
Jacobin: Thank you.
— corey robin (@CoreyRobin) February 6, 2019

― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 6 February 2019 17:17 (five years ago) link

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