Should I join the Labour Party?

There is no real mainstream debate now about whether we should have universal education, healthcare free at the point of provision, a broad range of tax-payer funded public services; there has been some whittling at the edges...

Again I tend to the incredulous and/or pessimistic here. There is totally debate on 'universal education': wtf is all this 'choice' stuff (and pro-'faith' schools stuff) otherwise? Healthcare is of course not free at the point of provision (well, I'm not suffering too bad but the things I *do* need -- glasses and dental care -- I do have to pay for -- oh and the student fees. Oh and crazy-high Counci Tax).

Also: Iraq.

I urge you to join, Ed. You could make a real difference, I suspect, and I think you have the right outlook on this.

3rd alt? ach.

xpost - totty test - why Lib Dems ain't there yet.

x post2 - you vote for people for the CLP offices who aren't Blairites. They influence the Councillors, the MP. You elect delegates to Conference, cast votes for the NEC, the NPF. It won't be easy, but change never is, and nor is it quick, and it's a Thatcher-esque conceit to think that change will follow from someone joining (I can't see how the Labour Party will change when I join, so since I'm not at the centre, I won't join etc).

The majority of this country care so little about politics it is shocking. Just whatever gets them through their 9 to 5 existence, with enough cash to get wasted at the weekend. It makes me, for one, utterly pissed off. Especially when you take for granted how much we like to laugh at the US with its "backwards" president. Well, you know, the time I spent in California - people were far more fucking informed and interested in this shit than the zombies I currently seem to meet here.

I keep getting asked shit like, "Oh this Michael Jackson trial - how crazy are the Americans" and it pisses me off, because given the choice between hanging out with my friends in California or the dampen faced lot over here (my oldest and bestest friends excepted) I know which I'd choose for quality conversation.

So what are you doing about it?

I really should get more active, so fair point mate.

xpost

What do i want from the labour party?

I want a party that will provide equality, i want universal healthcare, I want universal free education to be availible to degree level (not the same as saying all kids to go to university), I want a strong democratic EU, I want better funded public transport, integrated with the rest of europe, and a proper high speed line for britain, I want a proper tax on aviation fuel, i want a reduction in carbon emmissions through renewable and nuclear technology, I want an ethical foreign policy (a real one this time), I want religion to be booted out of state funded institutions, i want a strong independent BBC, I want an elected house of lords, I want electoral reform for the commons, I want a local government tax based on ability to pay.

I think I can achieve these goals better from within the Labour Party than from without.

Dr. Jenny Tonge (Richmond Park): "Is the Prime Minister happy - [Hon. Members: "Yes."] Is the Prime Minister happy to allow the teaching of creationism alongside Darwin's theory of evolution in state schools?"

The Prime Minister: "First, I am very happy. Secondly, I know that the hon. Lady is referring to a school in the north-east, and I think that certain reports about what it has been teaching are somewhat exaggerated.

It would be very unfortunate if concerns about that issue were seen to remove the very strong incentive to ensure that we get as diverse a school system as we properly can. In the end, a more diverse school system will deliver better results for our children. If she looks at the school's results, I think she will find that they are very good."

the weasel word is "just", as if teaching both theories is the same as declaring that both theories are interchangeably useful (which no one in fact believes)

*(militant creationists of course teach a very feebly underpowered misconception of darwinist evolution, in order to "defeat" it in argument and set it aside)

Yes but that implies teaching every theory ever devised. Not feasible, so in practice only theories still deemed credible are taught. Teaching creationism (or at least the Biblical version) gives it intellectual respectability it doesn't deserve.

"intellectual respectability" is a euphemism for "ignore the plebs and they'll go away": as an appeal to status-quo authority, it's actually a flight from critical reason

(*i actually think - cf eg stephen jay gould passim - that creative scientists can learn a lot from discredited theories, seeing as during episteme shifts fruitful babies do sometimes get flung out with disproved bathwater)

(**good example: throughout the bulk of the middle of the 20th century, wegener's theory of continental drift - proposed 1912 i think - was unrespectable, bcz he had failed to come up with a plausible mechanism... the turning point c.1967 came when a series of papers were delivered - i think all at one conference - which had begun life using new techniques like deep-seabed mapping to further drive the nail into the wegener coffin, and realised that hey! he might be an unrespectable goofball, but he was actually right)

Silly idea.

C-Man, i don't agree with the broad sweep of the 8NP's politics, whereas i do consider the labour party to represent a lot (not all) of my views, thus joining them to effect change does make sense, whereas joining any far right group would just annoy both me and them. also they'd never let me or ed in with our current haircuts...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1418933,00.html

but Hattersley says yes

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1418970,00.html

in regards to the previous question, if you want to Get Involved, rather than just give the party money (which i assume you do), definitely local branch. if you join on-line the local people will probably not know about you for a year...

http://kenmacleod.blogspot.com/2005_02_01_kenmacleod_archive.html#110891596842986311

...as long as you only mean the general election and not local ones (half-joking)

i think i'm in yet another v safe labour seat (sedgefield, oxford east, tottenham). cheltenham was the only place i could really "make a difference") so maybe another protest vote for whatever the socialist alliance is called this time...

so:
-4 pledges on the family, addressed to a person at the head of a family
-1 pledge on migration
-1 pledge on law and order
-1 appeal to the economy, stupid

i can't see much of labour in this. the bit about 'borders' really took me aback though.

even so, no. they'll draft in some apparatchik no doubt "well i've been working at grey's inn for the last 5 years so i've a real feel for the area" in fact, i think i know who it might be (friend on national policy forum who's just started lawing).

also RickyT wins today's OTM badge...

I shall have to fight this carpet bagging scallywag.

led by who?

http://bigrikcouk.brinkster.net/images/ff_foxy.jpg

Disappointing that, given all that is going on at the moment, the Labour Party's new party political broadcast bangs on about immigration.

at the risk of repeating myself, forget it, the party's dead.

Laziness has stopped me from cancelling the £2.50 or w/e a month i give them up to now. Will do it at lunch.

cool

from the other thread -

"Having had some time to think about it, I think I'm going to start volunteering time for the labour party some how. Does anyone else do anything? I'm a bit unsure where to start, do i just go and be like "hiya diane abbott sure i'll put the kettle on and sort mail"? Is there a good website that details how to help?"

i want to do this too. though not sure if i join and become a paying member, if i get to actually do much. which is what i want. i want to be active. anyone here a member?

talking to ppl I know tonight, a lot of v strong anti-corbyn sentiment from labour people, it seems so ubiquitous, I can't help but feel my grievances & indeed whole perspective on this are so marginal there's no point in being in the party

My wife is a member

I don't think you have to agree with everyone else in order to make a positive contribution fwiw

I'm not naturally a joiner and it's been a struggle to suppress the crippling frustration and dejection I feel wrt british politics but right now it's hard to feel optimistic about a party run from the bottom up and honestly I have no idea how I can make a positive contribution at this point

not sure theres any use in supporting corbyn at this point. you can only support a man, deserted as much as he has, so far. its no longer practical from the looks of things.

i still want to join though.

I was a member for the last year but stopped paying subs a couple of months ago for a combination of financial and ideological reasons. If you join your local party will most likely be VERY keen to get you involved in any way you want - stuffing envelopes, attending meetings, canvassing on the streets, etc etc. There's loads of opportunities to get involved practically.

otm

I vacillate between thinking i should join and go for it seriously over the next few years - aiming to be a ward Councillor and, in the fullness of time, a PPC - and mostly assuming the party is heading in a direction i couldn't bring myself to vote for let alone represent.

lots of local movers and shakers - organisers, councillors and so on who are part-timers apparently doing it out of belief and wanting to contribute - seem to have the same sort of cliquey, manoeuvring, driven, insubstantial on-message alternative reality mindset, in thrall of their local labour mp/mayor/anyone with a degree of ~power~ ready to regurgitate the plp pov in order to futher their own...careers?

I would like to get more involved because I don't have and don't want a career so might be an asset of sorts or at least be viewed as a hinderance and they'd have to expend effort marginalising me? either way

my support for corbyn was more for the movement to democratise the party and run it from the bottom up, but given the nature of the machinations that have been used to make his position untenable it looks like that is anathema to the ppl who are still evidently running things

with both this and the referendum result we've had democratic decisions which the establishment has been unable or perhaps just unwilling to make work. not sure what people are supposed to do in the face of this sort of anti-democracy

the willingness of people to make practical compromises is what has sustained the system for so long, I don't think it will be sufficient to solve the deeper problems, but hey, there's an election coming, got to look good for the tabloids

Yes, that's the key thing a lot of people are missing. It's not specifically about Corbyn - the idea of Labour as a democratic political movement goes far beyond the choice of leader. The naked contempt for members, not just within the PLP but from the Labour-aligned press and centrists within the wider party, clearly shows that's never going to happen unless Corbyn manages to hang on an implement a huge structural reform.

I vacillate between thinking i should join and go for it seriously over the next few years - aiming to be a ward Councillor and, in the fullness of time, a PPC - and mostly assuming the party is heading in a direction i couldn't bring myself to vote for let alone represent.

yeah this has been my thing for a long time, Corbyn's election swung me towards the former but here we go again

No

A reminder of how the Labour Party is now bad.

Blacklisting candidates for liking tweets from Sturgeon saying she had recovered from COVID is a disgusting look for Labour. https://t.co/4nMzqMdTEV

— Tom Sutton for NW YL Chair 🔶️ (@PushTheSutton) October 22, 2022

is this about enforcing anti-snp party discipline or is it more whatever pretext is to hand to keep out the wrong sort of people? or a two birds one stone situation

Pretty sure the SNP is not a big talking point on the doorsteps of Milton Keynes North.

I believe it is part of a general purge of socialists, though I don't know much about this particular individual.

is the party just going to get more and more reactionary on the assumption that tory fuckery and FPTP and lesser evil guilt tripping will hand them victory anyway regardless of how toxic they are and how little they have to offer to anyone who matters? or are they just spiteful pieces of shit as a matter of habit

Both.

https://newleftreview.org/sidecar/posts/selective-history

funny to see chessum beef make its way into the lrb

it’s the NLR!

that is quite a roasting

The 2017 election is described as ‘a moment of intoxication from which the leadership never really came down’

same here tbh.

A community centre which helped provide food and support to people in Broxtowe has closed for financial reasons amid claims the Labour Party removed the local political group’s access to a bank account.

🗒️Full story: https://t.co/ZqXU2bn8TY pic.twitter.com/PsWCOkYKr7

— Notts TV (@Notts_TV) August 22, 2023

I wish this jerkoff would just fade away. That's probably his fear, if he doesn't troll people with right-wing talking points he get's lower numbers because he's not half as interesting or funny as lots of the average shitposters who rip his stupid posts to pieces every day.

lol meant as a reply to the novara thread!

Lol

This is Wes Streeting's constituency

We are delighted to announce our independent PPC for the Ilford North seat is the inspirational Leanne Mohamad. pic.twitter.com/luu3fU2rXa

— Redbridge Community Action Group (@RedbridgeAction) January 15, 2024