― the pinefox, Tuesday, 3 July 2001 00:00 (13 years ago) Permalink
― chris, Tuesday, 3 July 2001 00:00 (13 years ago) Permalink
Funnily enough, I quite like the Guide, partly because Joe
Queenan and Byron Coley sometimes write for it, partly because
it means I no longer have to buy that useless piece of toss Time
― Andrew L, Tuesday, 3 July 2001 00:00 (13 years ago) Permalink
― james e l, Tuesday, 3 July 2001 00:00 (13 years ago) Permalink
1. The simplification of the accusation may just echo what it asserts
about the target (just as 'Dumbing Down' is a dumb, dull phrase);
2. If I don't like Triviality, why don't I read nothing but 10-page
reports from the former Yugoslavia? It would be hypocritical of me to
say that I simply wanted them to be SERIOUS and SOLEMN and
RESPONSIBLE all the time. No, that's not it.
What I mean, I suppose, is that too many features, esp. in G2, now
look dashed-off - half-hearted, half-baked, unconvincing, just cliché
pies really. Today's Lara Croft piece was just the latest of a
million examples. It feels (the terms are problematic here, I know)
JOURNALISTIC in a bad way - trite, unconsidered, full of crowd-
pleasing Received Ideas - rather than JOURNALISTIC in a good way
(that is: dogged, resourceful, brave, mentally agile, snappy and what
It's the world of second-hand Lifestyle phrases that bugs me. The way
that adults can still write a phrase like "*that* dress" and not hang
their heads in shame.
A rider to all my bile, though, is that my previous, more impressed
impressions of the Guardian may just reflect youthful
impressionability. (Sentence!) Maybe the same kind of crap used to
impress me that now feels rubbishy, faux-zeitgeisty and embarrassing?
Maybe, but I suspect it's a bit of both.
I agree about Queenan too. But most of all, I agree about Thomson.
There's almost no point having a thread about Thomson, because people
who know what they think about him already know it all and would just
send in superlatives.
― mark s, Tuesday, 3 July 2001 00:00 (13 years ago) Permalink
What the paper still has going for it: George Monbiot's column, the
Diary, Steve Bell, giving review space to Ians Sansom and Penman, and
the tv columns of Nancy Banks-Smith. (When N B-S finally pops her
clogs I will have to think very hard about buying the paper.)
What is leading the paper ever closer to the abyss: consistently
terrible pop coverage (honorable exceptions: Maddy Costa, Betty
Clarke); the fatuous new Saturday mag (Zoe Ball on dressing? match
the celebrity with the pet? that awful woman talking about words that
should be banned??); Charlotte bloody Raven.
― stevie t, Tuesday, 3 July 2001 00:00 (13 years ago) Permalink
I agree with you there. They sucker you in with the G2 front cover
(and the masthead of the main paper), but when you get to read the
cover story it often appears cobbled together and lightweight. I
imagine it must be difficult to fill that space with high quality
stories day in day out though.
― David, Tuesday, 3 July 2001 00:00 (13 years ago) Permalink
I actually like Peter Preston's awkward, staccato opinion pieces,
come to think of it. But not the pompous ones of Hugo Young.
Freedland is sometimes good at summing political issues up, but
usually he 'sums up' too much - there's too much glibness in the way
he marshals it all. (I admit again, though, that it's easy - even
glib - to call someone glib.)
Penman strikes me as a red herring. I can see that he doesn't do that
to you, cos you have some kind of investment in his career. I agree
about Sansom (great left-back, mean penalty, blah blah) - in fact I
think that the whole Saturday book reviews section is quite possibly
the best feature of the paper. EXCEPT of course the footy. Heroes?
How could I forget David Lacey?
BUT I think that you are wrong about N B-S. It doesn't surprise me
that older folk make that judgement about her; it does rather
surprise me coming from you. She has skills, I guess, but she's
terribly repetitive; uses the same lines on the same topics year in
year out. It's all too - yes - glib and easy, while dressed up to
look aged and thus wise.
― jamesmichaelward, Tuesday, 3 July 2001 00:00 (13 years ago) Permalink
I only read it for the Guide and the job listings. Not that either has
been particularly helpful lately... ;-)
― masonic boom, Wednesday, 4 July 2001 00:00 (13 years ago) Permalink
― Richard Tunnicliffe, Wednesday, 4 July 2001 00:00 (13 years ago) Permalink
― tarden, Wednesday, 4 July 2001 00:00 (13 years ago) Permalink
― Mark Morris, Wednesday, 4 July 2001 00:00 (13 years ago) Permalink
― Tadeusz Suchodolski, Friday, 6 July 2001 00:00 (13 years ago) Permalink
There's a lot of irritating stuff, yes. My favourite columnist is
George Monbiot, by a mile. Something I like about the Independent
when I do get it is that its liberalism is less metropolitan and more
about the common good. Needless to say, though, the Guardian's
series of articles on public service under that very title were
― The Hemulen Who Loved Silence, Friday, 6 July 2001 00:00 (13 years ago) Permalink
Today's G2 seems designed to add fuel to my (f)ire: one page
of 'Style' after another, including a column on Why We're So
Disappointed That Madonna Employs A Stylist.
― the pinefox, Friday, 6 July 2001 00:00 (13 years ago) Permalink
― blue veils and golden sands, Friday, 6 July 2001 00:00 (13 years ago) Permalink
Also good in Guardian: John Patterson re. cinema.
oh god, ask hadley today is just... tooth-grinding.
― Tracer Hand, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:17 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Dom Passantino, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:17 (7 years ago) Permalink
"At what age is a man too old to wear band T-shirts?"
Martin McCall, by email
"About 15 - that young enough for you, Martin? And to follow one rhetorical question with several more, what in God's name is the point of band T-shirts anyway? To show your allegiance to a band? Do you think anyone else cares? To impress onlookers with your esoteric musical knowledge? See previous reply. To make people stare at your bony chest? Again, I refer you to the first answer. To show that you once attended a live gig? Wow, like, a pair of golden headsets to the guy in the Nirvana '91 T-shirt. In case you happen to bump into the lead singer on the street, he sees that the two of you are kindred souls and therefore invites you to join his band and you then go on the road and have all the manly bonding sessions followed by groupies that your heart could desire? OK, I'll give you that one, although this does suggest that you still harbour the fantasy that you might bump into Joey Ramone in Waterstone's.
"As for ladies in band T-shirts, give me a fricking break. First, gals, a badly cut, poorly made, oversized T-shirt is good for nothing other than wearing to bed and the gym. Second, too often women who wear band T-shirts appear to be going for what we shall call Groupie Chic. It is a style amply modelled by Kate Moss in recent years, and can pretty much be summed up as skinny faded black jeans, ankle boots, a ripped band T-shirt and a cropped fur jacket. In other words, a girlified version of Marc Bolan's or Keith Richards' wardrobe, as though the woman has been so busy, um, sleeping on the band bus she hasn't had time to clean her clothes, so she's now wearing ones belonging to her musical companion. This column has no time for such nonsense."
― Tracer Hand, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:19 (7 years ago) Permalink
Yeah, because women have *no* interest in music whatsoever except for sleeping with musicians. What CENTURY is this cretin from?
― Masonic Boom, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:21 (7 years ago) Permalink
I think I stopped wearing band T-shirts by the time I was 23. It wasn't necessarily a conscious move tho. I doubt I will ever wear one again tho - I guess it seems lame unless it's an old obscure or overlooked thus hip act (even this I dunno about). I don't notice many people over 20 wearing them. Does Matt DC still have that Save Ferris T?
I only want to sleep with musicians if they are hot as they are (their musical ability is pretty irrelevant in fact).
― blueski, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:29 (7 years ago) Permalink
dear teh grauniad - a long time ago/we used to be friends...
― CharlieNo4, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:32 (7 years ago) Permalink
It went downhill after I left.
― Dom Passantino, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:33 (7 years ago) Permalink
or were you PUSHED?
― blueski, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:35 (7 years ago) Permalink
heh. (sorry alex, no harm intended)
― CharlieNo4, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:36 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Dom Passantino, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:36 (7 years ago) Permalink
i was being harsh really. i don't care what's on other people's t-shirts that much. just trying to work out why i stopped wearing/wouldn't wear band t-shirts myself.
― blueski, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:37 (7 years ago) Permalink
Any t-shirt which isn't plain white clearly sucks that's why.
― aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:38 (7 years ago) Permalink
i couldn't agree less
― blueski, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:40 (7 years ago) Permalink
I still wear band t-shirts if I like the band. Why not? I don't *define* myself or my personality by my music tastes any more, I haven't done that since I was about 18. But that's not the same thing as wearing a band t-shirt.
I suppose the fashion journalist in discussion cannot fathom the idea that clothes are just something you put on, rather than a definition of or statement about your personality.
This is definitely something that happens as you age - or rather, has happened to me as I aged. There's a subtle difference between Statement Clothes and just things you put on.
― Masonic Boom, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:40 (7 years ago) Permalink
Guardian editorial worldview circa 2007:
― tissp, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:41 (7 years ago) Permalink
why else would you buy a band t-shirt if not as a statement or definition of personality?
― blueski, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:44 (7 years ago) Permalink
I didn't know it was a band t-shirt okay?
― Matt DC, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:45 (7 years ago) Permalink
because you're cold xp
― tissp, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:45 (7 years ago) Permalink
In the past I've usually just bought them as a keepsake of a gig I've enjoyed. The piece tracer quotes is idiotic fluff, obv. I'd be embarrased to admit I'd written that.
― Pashmina, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:46 (7 years ago) Permalink
Because you like the design? Because you like the music? Because it was given to you (this is where most of mine come from)? Because it was a souvenier?
― Masonic Boom, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:46 (7 years ago) Permalink
you wouldn't actually buy a band t-shirt because you liked the design but not necessarily the band tho...would you?
because you like the music = statement/definition of you/your taste
given to you = not you buying
― blueski, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:48 (7 years ago) Permalink
No, plus I've only ever bought them @ gigs.
Probably yeah, but w/smaller bands there's also the knowledge that in buying it, yr helping to supposrt the tour.
― Pashmina, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:50 (7 years ago) Permalink
i actually bought a comets on fire t-shirt solely because the design was so awesome. (it was at a gig, but they hadn't come on stage yet.) then i heard the music and i liked that too. i suppose if i hadn't liked their music, or thought it was boring, it would have posed a problem.
a friend of mine, who shall remain nameless so that alex in nyc doesn't stalk and kill him, bought a huge iron maiden patch when he was 14 and sewed it across the shoulders of his denim jacket. he had never heard a note of iron maiden, but he wound up becoming the biggest iron maiden fan i know, and even sung in a band later, where his vocal style was almost inseparable from bruce dickinson's.
― Tracer Hand, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:53 (7 years ago) Permalink
my take on this: do not read hadley freeman.
this resolution made some time ago, stands as strong today as it ever did.
it's a crass and deliberately invidious piece of writing. such an attitude, if sincerely held, could be turned around on pretty much ANY choice of clothing. so forgeddaboudit
― Alan, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:53 (7 years ago) Permalink
the last band t-shirt i bought - robyn!
alan i can't help myself, i know i'm sick and need help.
― Tracer Hand, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:54 (7 years ago) Permalink
is there a thread for best band t-shirts? must see
― blueski, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:56 (7 years ago) Permalink
Taste is something that I have. It does not define me. Clothes are something I wear. The statement I am making is "I don't really care about clothes any more."
If I'm going to make a statement about clothes, I'll wear a bright green paisley jacket to a dronerock festival where everyone else is in leather.
I suppose my Hawkwind t-shirt is a statement, it says "ha ha, I'm wearing a Hawkwind t-shirt, I care nothing for fashion, I am wearing the shirt of a band so deeply uncool you can suck my left one because I love them!" But it's certainly not a statement saying that I want to f*ck any of Hawkwind or that I have a musician boyfriend whose Hawkwind t-shirt I'm borrowing, which is the assumption of that article.
― Masonic Boom, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:56 (7 years ago) Permalink
> I don't notice many people over 20 wearing them.
> you wouldn't actually buy a band t-shirt because you liked the design but not necessarily the band tho...would you?
EAR t-shirt with the putney on the front = great. EAR live = terrible. (EAR on CD = ok, plus pram and stereolab were supporting)
― koogs, Monday, 3 September 2007 15:03 (7 years ago) Permalink
thank god a uk media organization is able to give all of this vital american cultural politics content to the world
― the ﬁnal twilight of all evaluative standpoints (nakhchivan), Wednesday, 22 October 2014 16:40 (1 month ago) Permalink
Renée Zellweger's face is her brand – a new look will change her career beyond recognition22 Oct 2014: Steve Rose:
Nothing's wrong with Renee Zellweger's face. There's something wrong with us22 Oct 2014: Jennifer Gerson Uffalussy
Renée Zellweger's new look due to 'happy, healthy lifestyle', not surgery22 Oct 2014: Xan Brooks
It's not unreasonable to ask where the real Renée Zellweger has gone2 hours ago: Viv Groskop
― Wristy Hurlington (ShariVari), Thursday, 23 October 2014 08:45 (1 month ago) Permalink
― pecker shrivellage (imago), Thursday, 23 October 2014 09:14 (1 month ago) Permalink
― kinder, Thursday, 23 October 2014 09:24 (1 month ago) Permalink
all the Zellweger that's fit to print
― Barry Gordy (Neil S), Thursday, 23 October 2014 11:22 (1 month ago) Permalink
Taylor Swift in the Blank Space video is the woman we've been waiting for
― milord z (nakhchivan), Tuesday, 11 November 2014 15:45 (1 month ago) Permalink
― milord z (nakhchivan), Tuesday, 11 November 2014 15:46 (1 month ago) Permalink
Sorry, that is just how I fell.
― Fairly peng (wins), Tuesday, 11 November 2014 16:20 (1 month ago) Permalink
Series: Jess Zimmerman column
Is keeping up with what's viral stressing you out? It's not your fault
― proper maoist (DJ Mencap), Wednesday, 19 November 2014 17:27 (1 month ago) Permalink
DennisMcScumbag commented on Julien Blanc barred from entering UK.19 Nov 2014 8:48pm
I am sure he considered it.
And Julien Blanc was not racist or encouraging sexual assault.
― disconnected externalized and unrecognizable signifying structure (nakhchivan), Wednesday, 19 November 2014 23:37 (1 month ago) Permalink
(and the author's part in the comments section seems a bit tragic, too)
― djh, Thursday, 20 November 2014 00:18 (1 month ago) Permalink
No worries though, it was buried in a full page report on p5 of the main news section.
― ledge, Sunday, 23 November 2014 19:36 (4 weeks ago) Permalink
Does anyone else get strange things happening when they open the home page in Safari? The pictures are often under the wrong stories. It's great!
― Wristy Hurlington (ShariVari), Tuesday, 2 December 2014 08:32 (2 weeks ago) Permalink
he may be understood but at least he has one friend
― Ratt in Mi Kitchen (Neil S), Tuesday, 2 December 2014 09:00 (2 weeks ago) Permalink
i get the same thing, it's one of the few joys in looking at the news each morning
― sosmix klopp (NickB), Tuesday, 2 December 2014 09:03 (2 weeks ago) Permalink
― Turtleneck Work Solutions (Nasty, Brutish & Short), Tuesday, 2 December 2014 09:09 (2 weeks ago) Permalink
further indignity heaped on poor old Gordon as well
― Ratt in Mi Kitchen (Neil S), Tuesday, 2 December 2014 09:12 (2 weeks ago) Permalink
So the NME did an uncharacteristically excellent feature on the UK DIY music scene a few weeks ago. Lots of great bands and promoters featured, individual locales got well observed and excellently researched coverage, a few of the bands covered have been going on for a decade or more with nary a mention in any nationwide press. It was a moment to savour for those of us who have any pride or involvement in UK DIY.
So it's good that The Guardian saw fit to do the same, you'd think? Well, it would've been, if they didn't just effectively reprint the same bands/venues/promoters/info/towns, without acknowledging or giving credit to the relevant journalists, in fact you'd think Gwilym Mumford had done all the work himself. Pretty fucking shoddy, Guardian. Why not give the (excellent) writers behind the piece some work, or at least some credit.
― Basically / I Don't Wanna Be / An mp3 / 3-2-0 kb / ps (Craigo Boingo), Sunday, 7 December 2014 19:01 (2 weeks ago) Permalink
― rising stones cross (anagram), Sunday, 7 December 2014 21:46 (2 weeks ago) Permalink
n/m I found it
That's 13 years now the Guardian has been, if you will, 'worse than it used to be'.
― Letsby Avenue (Tom D.), Sunday, 7 December 2014 21:51 (2 weeks ago) Permalink
It was still a pile of wank in the Manchester Guardian years, it is a faulty premise for a thread title.
― xelab, Sunday, 7 December 2014 21:59 (2 weeks ago) Permalink
Are you suggesting that a pile of wank is the worst the universe has to offer?
― Alba, Sunday, 7 December 2014 22:30 (2 weeks ago) Permalink
Was just reading a WW1 book and read how similarly appallingly full of shit/gung ho the MG was to the right wing press at the time. Albeit one written by a loathsome prick who writes for the Telegraph!
― xelab, Sunday, 7 December 2014 22:39 (2 weeks ago) Permalink
Carl Fogarty wins I’m A Celebrity1 comment
this is one of the 12 most important stories apparently
― نكبة (nakhchivan), Monday, 8 December 2014 01:27 (1 week ago) Permalink
the manchester guardian was more sceptical of the case for war than the conservative press press prior to and during the july crisis
― نكبة (nakhchivan), Monday, 8 December 2014 01:29 (1 week ago) Permalink
The Manchester Guardian declared that Britain was in no danger of being dragged into the Austro-Serbian conflict by ‘treaties of alliance’ and famously announced that Manchester cared for Belgrade as little as Belgrade cared for Manchester.
― نكبة (nakhchivan), Monday, 8 December 2014 01:31 (1 week ago) Permalink
then the war started
the observer of course supported the 2003 iraq war
― نكبة (nakhchivan), Monday, 8 December 2014 01:33 (1 week ago) Permalink
I can't the find the offending quote from the Max Hastings book by the MG after a search, so I am probably talking shite!
"I write for the Guardian," said Sir Max Hastings in 2005, "because it is read by the new establishment"
― xelab, Monday, 8 December 2014 02:29 (1 week ago) Permalink
I had a few WW1 books on the go simultaneously recently is my excuse!
― xelab, Monday, 8 December 2014 02:40 (1 week ago) Permalink
no i am sure you're right about the liberal papers during the war, once it started there was a strong level of unanimity and the differences prior to it were erased but even some of the conservative papers were sceptical until the declaration of war
that quote from the excellent 'the sleepwalkers' by christopher clark
― نكبة (nakhchivan), Monday, 8 December 2014 02:45 (1 week ago) Permalink
Enjoying the Guardian's Will And Kate coverage and how it's stretching journalists:
The evening crescendoed with the long-speculated meeting between Beyonce and Jay-Z and Kate and William midway through the third quarter.
― Twist of Caliphate (Bob Six), Tuesday, 9 December 2014 10:32 (1 week ago) Permalink
xp (and a bit of topic) The Sleepwalkers is excellent, apart from the title, which seems inappropriate. IMO Clark shows that the protagonists did anything but sleepwalk into the conflict (though the fact that all the senior figures involved were apparently suffering from heart disease/strokes/epilepsy, insomniacs, workaholics, neurotics, alcoholics, or some combination of these wasn't a great help)
― Ratt in Mi Kitchen (Neil S), Tuesday, 9 December 2014 11:32 (1 week ago) Permalink
the title is perfectly appropriate and given his quotations from musil, schweig, roth etc is almost certainly an allusion to the novel by hermann broch
According to Broch, “sleepwalkers” refer to a gap between the death of an ethical system and the birth of another, as much as a somnambulist finds himself in a state between sleep and awake
this is attested to throughout the book, the transition from the bismarck archetype and the measured realpolitik of the 19th c with its delicate multipolar settlement towards a bloc identity that was more paranoid, brittle and reactive in which the incipient demise of the ottoman and then austrian empires a sort of fait accompli
― Chairman Feinstein (nakhchivan), Wednesday, 10 December 2014 04:28 (1 week ago) Permalink
― Chairman Feinstein (nakhchivan), Wednesday, 10 December 2014 04:30 (1 week ago) Permalink
interesting, thanks, I hadn't appreciated this
― Ratt in Mi Kitchen (Neil S), Wednesday, 10 December 2014 07:43 (1 week ago) Permalink
also he explains his choice of title in the very last sentence of the book - "...the protagonists of 1914 were sleepwalkers, watchful but unseeing, haunted by dreams, yet blind to the reality of the horror they were about to bring into the world.”
― anonanon, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 08:04 (1 week ago) Permalink
that's what sits less well with me, the idea the protagonists were "unseeing". I think a lot of accusations can be leveled at them, but that's not one of them. Anyway these are quibbles, it's a great book.
― Ratt in Mi Kitchen (Neil S), Wednesday, 10 December 2014 09:09 (1 week ago) Permalink
Alan R to step down as editor next year, after 20 years.
― Alba, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 16:03 (1 week ago) Permalink
Eagerly anticipating the sacking of every frivolous lifestyle columnist and the Guardian's impending return to golden age ERM-era severity.
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 16:20 (1 week ago) Permalink
Pretty sure I'll get the big job, on a platform of more Adel Taarabt and more Hold Steady.
― Unsettled defender (ithappens), Wednesday, 10 December 2014 16:31 (1 week ago) Permalink
Photography is not an art. It is a technology. We have no excuse to ignore this obvious fact in the age of digital cameras, when the most beguiling high-definition images and effects are available to millions. My iPad can take panoramic views that are gorgeous to look at. Does that make me an artist? No, it just makes my tablet one hell of a device.
what a Hot Take!
― ey mk II, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 16:38 (1 week ago) Permalink
Challop is free
― ledge, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 18:49 (1 week ago) Permalink
hey i did not expect this thread to make me feel better about my arbitrary purchase of the sleepwalkers the other day but it has so theres that
― ♛ LIL UNIT ♛ (thomp), Wednesday, 10 December 2014 23:43 (1 week ago) Permalink
I bought the broch sleepwalkers the other day as it happens but it was for a gift
― tweet deems ur mad f this (wins), Wednesday, 10 December 2014 23:53 (1 week ago) Permalink
The Sleepwalkers really is excellent.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 11 December 2014 12:52 (1 week ago) Permalink
My library stock a copy of The Sleepwalkers because of me :-)
I thought Clark's book alluded to the novel. xp
― xyzzzz__, Thursday, 11 December 2014 12:54 (1 week ago) Permalink
I couldn't get through The Sleepwalkers. I must be stupid.
― Unsettled defender (ithappens), Thursday, 11 December 2014 13:21 (1 week ago) Permalink
The novel is ok-ish. Loved some of the last part but when I tried to re-read the first part it was a tad mundane.
― xyzzzz__, Friday, 12 December 2014 00:17 (1 week ago) Permalink
Garcia opened investigations into the conduct of five individuals during the bidding process including three current executive committee members – √Ångel Mar√-a Villar Llona of Spain, Belgium’s Michel D’Hooghe and Thailand’s Wowari Makudi
― Chairman Feinstein (nakhchivan), Saturday, 20 December 2014 01:35 (Yesterday) Permalink