will the Roadmap bring peace to Israel-Palestine?

(a) No; it will not be implemented. (b) Yes, but he is retired. (c) No, it is scheduled for 2008. (d) Yes; congratulations!

This shit is so not ever going to work. Of course if it does that's going to make Dubya look really smart. I think we can all agree that we would hate that.

This is a sucky fact, but: it would be hard enough for a peace roadmap to work out if both sides really did intend to carry out their respective portions of it in parallel -- something pretty much everyone on Earth agrees is a necessity. Unfortunately, Israel is unwilling to even give lip service to the idea that they would consider implementing their end before the Palestinians have spontaneously and magically reined in every fragment of their population and created an honest one-sided ceasefire. The great and unsurprising irony to this is that Israel, being a collective functioning state with a heirarchy of demand, is on the side most able to actually take such steps.

Hohoho, that's "heirarchy of command," actually.

Yeah this is Sharon's opportunity to prove that when he said he was delaying peace talks until there was a alternative to Arafat with whom he could negotiate, he wasn't lying. Unfortunately I think he was. The big issue here is the settlements, which I don't think Sharon's ever shown evidence of having the inclination or courage to remove.

There are three big issues and Sharon is basically unwilling to yield on any of them = this is go nowhere fast.

Considering all the ties between Arafat and the various terrorist groups, I don't think its that unreasonable to ask Palestinian Security to stop like letting terrorists out of jail every few months or so. And Sharon has recently mentioned axing some of the settlements. It's a start at least. Anyway if you can't find blame on both sides of this issue, you must be reading the Guardian.

I think my problem right now is that obviously there is plenty of "blame on both sides of the issues," which is exactly why these things are supposed to get corrected in parallel, not as conditions of someone else's action. I'm sure you could list a thousand reasons not to believe that the Palestian leadership is being entirely genuine when they claim readiness to do this. But what's particularly irritating to me is the Israeli insistence that they have no interest in this symmetry -- that they won't take steps until certain conditions are already met elsewhere.

Which -- if I'm reading you right -- is sort of what your post does, very very indirectly.

So the alternative is: cease the occupation, ditch the settlements, figure out how to divide Jerusalem, and the P.A. will give up right of return and magically stop terrorists they not only can't control, but have been repeatedly tied into.

Honestly, I don't know what gradual steps the P.A. could take. But one would certainly be reforming itself. Maybe allowing some Israeli inteligence crossover into the P.A.

(Like is Israel knows where some of the Hamas is hiding out, send agents in with the P.A. to get them, as opposed to just launching missles at residential buildings.)

does the PA even exist any more? Most/all of the self rule areas have been reoccupied by the Israelis, PA officials can't move freely through Palestine, and the Israelis have been happily blowing up the Authority's infrastructure. What, in practice, is the PA actually able to do?

Mmm, I'm not asking these questions rhetorically.

Maybe some of their sympathetic neighbors should help them out. The conflict always seems to give them plenty of reason to hate Jews, but doesn't seem to generate much willingness to assist the Palestinians. I think there is still money flowing into the P.A., its where its being directed that's a concern. That said, demolishing the P.A. because of it's terrorist ties doesn't accomplish anything.

but does the PA exist anymore, in any real sense? that's my question. If it essentially is a defunct organisation it seems a bit pointless to produce a peace roadmap which requires it to do things. Unless the roadmap is meant to fail, of course.

Israel throws Mideast 'road map' in doubt

- - - - - - - - - - - -
By Mark Lavie

May 6, 2003 | JERUSALEM (AP) -- Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon threw a U.S.-backed peace plan into doubt Tuesday, saying the Palestinians must drop their demand for Arab refugees' "right of return" to Israel if negotiations are to proceed.

Israel has always objected to the right of return for about 4 million Arabs who fled the war that followed Israel's creation in 1948, but never made renouncing the demand a condition for peace talks before.

The new Mideast plan unveiled by Washington last week says the fate of the refugees will be negotiated in the third and final stage of the so-called "road map." The right of return is a cornerstone of Palestinian policy.

But Sharon told Israel Radio the renunciation by Palestinians "is something Israel insists on and sees it as a condition for continuing the process." The interview marked Israel's Independence Day celebrations.

Israeli officials said the renunciation would have to come before creation of a provisional Palestinian state in the second of the plan's three phases.

The Palestinians already have accepted the road map, which seeks to end 31 months of bloody Mideast violence and lead to a peaceful resolution of the Israel-Arab conflict.

Israel refuses to take blame for the consequences of the two-year war after its creation, when Arab armies invaded the nascent Jewish state and about 700,000 Palestinians fled or were expelled from their homes.

Sharon called the right of return "a recipe for the destruction of Israel," because it would flood Israel with Arabs. Statistics released on the eve of Independence Day showed there are now 5.4 million Jews and 1.3 million Arabs in Israel.

Palestinian Cabinet Minister Saeb Erekat said Sharon is stalling and trying to kill the plan.

"I think the end game here of Mr. Sharon is trying to extend the time until the American election in order to avoid implementation of any the provisions of the road map," Erekat said.

Sharon said that in the coming days, there would be another discussion in Washington over the 15 objections Israel has raised, delaying the start of the process.

Israel demands that before anything else is done, all Palestinian attacks must cease. The United States says steps must be taken in parallel - Palestinians working to stop attacks and Israel easing restrictions and halting Jewish settlement activity in the West Bank and Gaza.

Sharon confirmed in the radio interview that he had turned down overtures from Syrian President Bashar Assad to resume peace negotiations. He said Syria was trying to ease pressure from the United States to close the offices of extremist Palestinian groups and to stop supporting guerrillas in Lebanon.

After the fighting in Iraq, the United States demanded that Syria stop giving shelter to escaped Iraqi leaders and expressed concern about Syrian chemical and biological weapons programs and its military presence in Lebanon.

"Certainly Syria has an interest in giving the impression that there is a possibility of peace negotiations," Sharon said.

Peace talks between Israel and Syria broke down in 1999.

Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas, meanwhile, assigned the powers of interior minister, including command of key security forces, to Mohammed Dahlan, a former Gaza strongman now serving as state minister for security affairs.

In putting together his Cabinet, Abbas kept the job of interior minister for himself, to get around the ruling Fatah movement's opposition to giving Dahlan a senior role.

Fatah officials were upset about what they considered a deceptive move by Abbas, and planned to hold a meeting later Tuesday.

'Right of return' will never happen. Not even if the Labor party was in power. But that shouldn't keep other issues from being worked on.

I oppose the establishment of an independant Palestine.
The historical basis for such a nation is flimsy at
best - the new Palestine would simply be a staging
ground for the next crusade against Israel.
Israel's neighbors have demonstrated time and again
their abiding faith in Hitler's final solution.

nyeh, don't feed the troll.