This is the thread where I have a good angsty moan (do not read if you hate me)

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Social life I thought was on the up; now suddenly dwindled back to zero. Work intolerable again - not the actual work, but the idiots with whom I am forced to work. Manager whines at me about you sit in the corner working away and never talk to us LOOK FUCKWIT I'M NOT PAID TO BE YOUR FRIEND I'M PAID TO DO A FUCKING JOB - this after an entire week where they blabber on exclusively about someone's retirement party and DELIBERATELY EXCLUDE ME from their conversation. Don't know how much longer I can carry on being trod into the ground day after day.

So much for reconnecting with the world. I think I'll just crawl back into my shell and stay there, as before. Every time I stick my face out someone kicks it. Nothing seems to work. Just keep on writing; that's the only way I'm ever going to reach people. Even though the longer I stay inside the harder it'll be for me ever to LET GO of this ball and chain.

So OK, talk to me, cheer me up, chat me up if you like, I don't mind. Anything to help me forget where/who I am...

Marcello Carlin, Monday, 17 March 2003 09:03 (twenty-three years ago)

Oh. Marcello. I wish that I could somehow take a little tiny bit of my current manic extreme happiness and put it in a glass and make you drink it so you could feel good. You know I'm a miserable depressive fucker and I've spent half the weekend swinging around wildly like a pendulum between extreme depression and elation, but honestly... "When you hit the bottom line, the only thing to do is climb. Pick yerself up off the floor, don't know what you're waiting for."

Keep working at making things better. Throw enough shit and eventually something will stick. Just when it feels so overwhelming that you don't think you can take it any more, something will happen to make life worth living again. I'm not being a Pollyanna here, I know this, I've learned this.

I've got Manic Monday stuck in my head. Tee hee hee!

kate, Monday, 17 March 2003 09:10 (twenty-three years ago)

working with fuckwits is sadly part of the human condition.

DV (dirtyvicar), Monday, 17 March 2003 09:19 (twenty-three years ago)

My pattern's definitely the classic manic extreme one - extreme joy and elation, followed by equally extreme depression and insular misery. My prob is that when things get better for me I want them to STAY that way, but they never do stay on that level, and I'm not sure whether that's my fault for having too high expectations, or the world's fault for not letting me back in.

And I'm way too intense for my own good. Need someone in my life to take my mind off me, if that makes even the remotest sense.

Marcello Carlin, Monday, 17 March 2003 09:21 (twenty-three years ago)

I am having a manic Monday. How am I supposed to concentrate on invoices and roaming agreements when I'm GOING ON TOUR WITH THE BANGLES?!?!?

I understand the feeling of wanting someone else to take your mind off yourself all the time. But that really isn't healthy, it places quite a ... I hate to use the word burden, but it places a huge significance on the other person. My experience is that relationships do not thrive under this kind of condition, they wither, and wow oh boy have I paid the price for this kind of intensity. Even with people who I thought were my match in intensity - see Horton.

I don't know. I need sleep. But here I am blethering to try and cheer you up. Play some Teardrop Explodes. Especially Seven Views Of Jerusalem. Play that while walking over a bridge over the river Thames where you get seven views of St. Paul's for a wonderful Revelatory moment.

kate, Monday, 17 March 2003 09:36 (twenty-three years ago)

I used to play Wilder/T Explodes on the Walkman while walking over Magdalen Bridge back in '81/2. Can't listen to it/them now - too painful, reminds me of when it all began, when everything was good.

Perhaps I ought to take your advice and trash/burn everything, just let go of the whole bloody history...

And of course I know it's the intensity/dependence which stops me from getting what/who I want. I wish I could snap out of it. At the moment everyone's a Horton, and you know what I mean.

Perhaps I ought to form a band...

Marcello Carlin, Monday, 17 March 2003 09:45 (twenty-three years ago)

The other thing that depressed me was that I got my ballot card/propaganda for the Oxford Chancellorship election forwarded to me from my old address - one for me, the other for "Mrs L A Carlin"

:-(

always something there to remind me

Marcello Carlin, Monday, 17 March 2003 09:54 (twenty-three years ago)

sorry to hear that the social life thingy is gone pear shaped but I'm sure things will look up again.

*good thoughts for marcello*

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 17 March 2003 10:03 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm trying to give advice to myself as much as to you, Marcello. We're all just crawling along in the dark, learning.

I've got to process a week's worth of invoices in two days and still squeeze in a rehearsal or two. My social life has been shot to hell this week, but in a good cause, I guess. Life sure is weird but what else have I to know?

Keep passing the open windows!

kate, Monday, 17 March 2003 10:08 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm trying to give advice to myself as much as to you, Marcello. We're all just crawling along in the dark, learning.

Oh I know you are, Kate, and I know we are. I wish knowing it could stop us from doing it, but never mind...

I think my life would benefit immeasurably from being "weird" and "shot to hell" in a good way, i.e. not "shot to hell" as is currently the situation, namely crap job + no life = too tired/frustrated to do anything else, so that I don't end up nearly kicking my TV screen in on Friday because of the asininity of Comic Relief and end up howling at the moon for an hour thereafter.

Marcello Carlin, Monday, 17 March 2003 10:13 (twenty-three years ago)

**Social life I thought was on the up; now suddenly dwindled back to zero. Work intolerable again - not the actual work, but the idiots with whom I am forced to work. Manager whines at me about you sit in the corner working away and never talk to us LOOK FUCKWIT I'M NOT PAID TO BE YOUR FRIEND I'M PAID TO DO A FUCKING JOB - this after an entire week where they blabber on exclusively about someone's retirement party and DELIBERATELY EXCLUDE ME from their conversation**

I don't understand this. If you choose to ignore everyone, why are you surprised when they ignore you back? Also, why do you care, since as you put it they're *fuckwits*? Look, most work people are not necessarily people who you would choose for friends, but few are so awful that they're worthy of total disdain. If you've got to spend 8 hrs a day with them it's worth trying to get on with them.

Social life - I, for one, was looking forward to seeing you last Thursday. It wasn't going to be the best night you've ever had in yr life, but *could have been* enjoyable for you. Then you have one of your ridiculous blasts at someone on ILX and stomp off. So, you stay in again.

You've had a wretched time, but largely the world takes as it finds. Sorry I couldn't be more positive.

Dr. C (Dr. C), Monday, 17 March 2003 11:04 (twenty-three years ago)

Dr C, you know exactly why I didn't come last Thursday. I told you - off-board - before my "flare up."

I do not come into a work environment with an intent to alienate, although I adhere pretty stringently to the maxim "don't speak until you're spoken to." But if people LEAN OVER ME and DELIBERATELY EXCLUDE ME from their conversation to the extent of putting their elbow on the desk or the filing cabinet to block me out, then why should I go out of my way to connect with them other than work-related reasons? And yes I do care because I have to spend eight hours a day cooped up with them and it's killing me.

Marcello Carlin, Monday, 17 March 2003 11:17 (twenty-three years ago)

Tut. It is office angst, Marcello. Eight hours of being with people you would not necessarily want to socialise with will eventually drive you mad. Leave your routine for a few days and you will be calm.

S Samson, Monday, 17 March 2003 11:25 (twenty-three years ago)

You know what this is? It's the yin and yan thingy: good and bad, positive and negative, light and dark. Once everything is going so well something really shitty happens to even it up. It happens all the time. I don't ever want things to be so good and then get hurt and disappointed.

ali (ali), Monday, 17 March 2003 12:29 (twenty-three years ago)

You have my sympathies, Marcello. I've had one or two comedowns after investing unrealistically high hopes in new relationships over the last year or two, and I guess maybe you're experiencing the same now. I feel for you.

As for work, I can only suggest that being more friendly to them will generally get the same back, but I can't say I care a great deal at work - I get on fine with everyone, and as far as I know I'm not disliked, but I have no close friends here either, and that's fine with me.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Monday, 17 March 2003 13:16 (twenty-three years ago)

my mum's great trick — which i absorbed as a child w/o really being aware this was happening — is to wear down scowlers and the impolite with endless unshakeable cheerful friendliness: however rude or uncommunicative someone is to her, at work on in the street, she beams at them, and calls out good morning or whatever

this is not — she insists — because she is angelic, quite the opposite: "deep down, i intend to browbeat and irritate them mercilessly into realising that their only route of escape from me is civility! If I go to hell for any reason, i believe this to be it: they *WILL* feel guilty and bad..."

(i think i also told ilx the story abt her tirade-switcheroo w. the water board: the water was off for some ludicrous reason and she rang in as Unhinged Madwoman Screaming at Girl on Phone, then immeidately after as polite and friendly worried complainant... the second time she said, "I don't normally make calls like this, but some of my neighbours are getting quite upset", and the Girl on the Phone said "I know!! I've just spoke to a dreadfully angry woman!! She said awful things!!" "Oh dear, poor you," said mum, "I wonder who that was?")

mark s (mark s), Monday, 17 March 2003 14:36 (twenty-three years ago)

her tirade-switcheroo w. the water board

Utterly brilliant strategy. I'd like to try it myself...

Skottie, Monday, 17 March 2003 14:41 (twenty-three years ago)

warning: it wz before 1471!!

mark s (mark s), Monday, 17 March 2003 14:44 (twenty-three years ago)

It's a trick which sadly I have never been able to master. I am a miserable depressed indrawn bastard who finds it hard to talk to anyone and that's all there is to it :-( I work much better when I'm left alone in a backroom office and I can just get on with things.

Marcello Carlin, Monday, 17 March 2003 14:50 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm the exact same way.

Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 17 March 2003 14:51 (twenty-three years ago)

"LOOK FUCKWIT I'M NOT PAID TO BE YOUR FRIEND I'M PAID TO DO A FUCKING JOB"

essentially what I said to the owner of the Antelope, who fired me for, among similar stated reasons, not playing cricket with him and his friends on weekends, boo hoo

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 17 March 2003 16:19 (twenty-three years ago)

"Just keep on writing; that's the only way I'm ever going to reach people."

Well you do certainly reach people with your writing, that's true. But as someone who doesn't know you personally, just from limited contact on here and from reading CoM, I hope you can find a level of personal happiness. I was genuinely pleased to read the other week that you felt you'd turned a corner after the march, and it was disappointing to see this thread and hear things aren't going so well now.

Please don't let the bastards grind you down.

James Ball (James Ball), Monday, 17 March 2003 17:08 (twenty-three years ago)

Thing is, they end up grinding you down anyway.

I end up attaching myself (or trying to attach myself) to the wrong people. And then I wonder why I end up getting hurt.

Always "Oh MC you're smart/clever/funny/a wonderful writer." Never "Oh MC you're sexy/gorgeous/I want to (fill in blank) you."

I can't let go of the past unless I know I'm going to land somewhere else, rather than just plunge into the abyss.

Marcello Carlin, Tuesday, 18 March 2003 08:54 (twenty-three years ago)

Everything's a mess. Not getting much from Uncut at present. Foolishly got talked into reviewing Tubular Bells 4 by Mike Oldfield. Lester wants to run it as a lead BUT they are not giving out promos. Instead the PR man said he could sort it out for me to go up to Oldfield's studio at Chalfont St Giles (!) and listen to it there & interview MO at the same time. It's outrageous. I shall do nothing of the sort. Apart from the fact that I'll have to take a day off work (and therefore lose a day's pay) for this nonsense, it denies me the objectivity essential for any decent review, i.e. to be listened to in my own space, in my own time, so that I can arrive at a proper opinion about the music in question. I didn't think much of TB 2 or 3 so I told PL it was pointless going to all this waste if the record was going to be a stinker. There's not much else for me to review for the May issue, except Cody ChesnuTT, which was my idea, and which may or may not run depending on whether PL can get a copy to listen to before next Monday. Oh, and the new M*m*s...

Thoroughly depressing, as if I weren't depressed enough. Started to write something for CoM about Velvet Tinmine but gave up. It read like a laundry list. Cat Power playing in the background: "Gonna keep on crawlin' 'til the day I die." That about sums it up. Gave up in despair and went to bed, reading Sinclair talking about Watford, the Grand Union Canal, the A40 and Chalfont St Giles!! Dreamed about L yet again; we were out record shopping. She expressed delight about the Wedding Present's Hit Parade (!!) being reissued on CD. Then, inevitably, woke at 4:25 am, feeling utterly suicidal. Lay there in mute despair for awhile and then got back to sleep but the damage was done.

Don't really want to do anything or go anywhere, except to work, robot-fashion. Might go to Oxford again on Saturday. It's not what I want to be doing...what I want is to do things with someone else on Saturday, i.e. record/book shopping/browsing, eating, drinking, art, films, gigs, laughter, friendship. But there is no one else, and no one on the horizon, so literally I have nothing better to do.

The thought which kept going through my head this morning was: "you're a servant, Carlin, a slave, that's all you are, you don't like it but that's what you've ended up being, that's what you've been reduced to."

(note: this thread is a form of self-therapy, and I am really just talking to myself/thinking aloud/lamenting in order to try to avoid doing it on other threads. So you don't need to respond to it, or even read it. This is just me thinking things through on a daily basis)

Marcello Carlin, Wednesday, 19 March 2003 08:38 (twenty-three years ago)

footnotes for the collected CoM? I wish you well Marcello.

gaz (gaz), Wednesday, 19 March 2003 08:45 (twenty-three years ago)

Hey Marcello - I work virtually IN Chalfont St. Giles. I could go round and duff up Oldfield for you. I thought Lester had quit anyway.

Dr. C (Dr. C), Wednesday, 19 March 2003 09:05 (twenty-three years ago)

No, they did advertise for a Deputy Editor but this is just an extra pair of hands. PL spent an afternoon considering resigning, but stayed on, Clare Short-style.

Strange isn't it...when I was a kid back in the '70s, meeting Oldfield would have been "Jim'll Fix It" time; he was a kind of pre-punk idol to me, through his first three albums, Rock Bottom, Kevin Ayers, Viv Stanshall etc. - but now the prospect of meeting him is just aargh/yeucch!

Marcello Carlin, Wednesday, 19 March 2003 09:18 (twenty-three years ago)

War is about not caring what other people think. My problems aren't the worst; they only harm myself.

One by one all the ties with the previous life sever themselves. Alan Keith died Tuesday aged 94 (58 more years); presenter of Your 100 Best Tunes on Radio 2 on Sunday evening for 44 years. Thinking of Sunday nights in Oxford towards the end; when all of this felt cosy and secure, when an utterly conventional life of parenting and weekend motoring trips was at long last something to look forward to. It is called settling down. Not crawling like a spider. And then the carpet is pulled away from under our feet at the last minute, after which everything and everyone is in limbo. But I got a warm, reassuring glow from things like Your 100 Best Tunes. Now I can't.

War being hyped up everywhere but I don't care about any of it, can't get worked up by it or be afraid of it. My world ended 18 months ago. There's nothing left to destroy.

Sinclair warns: London's mapped out like a heart. Get too closely involved in it and it will strangle you. Another bucolic-looking morning, as if to persuade me otherwise, but I'm not fooled. This is all shadow dancing with no purpose yet visible.

Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 20 March 2003 08:37 (twenty-three years ago)

Marcello, I'll email you asap. Work's kinda hectic. Don't listen to Catpower, listen to Majesticons. :-)

nathalie (nathalie), Thursday, 20 March 2003 10:03 (twenty-three years ago)

We saw Quickspace last night. They were excellent BUT we had to wade through two hours of APPALLINGLY BAD support acts, sufficiently mediocre to drive us out to sit on the stairs and despair about the world in general WHY ARE WE HERE? Two hours of Chinese water torture. And we didn't think Q/space were on for as long as Sally bloody Crews was - less than an hour. It's criminal! They should have been on for all three hours!!

I still enjoyed the evening though. I have to get out more, either of my own accord or be dragged out if necessary. It is true that I need to learn to love myself before I can be loved again. It is like learning to ride a bike but I have to do it - tiny steps at a time. In the meantime there are still just pieces of a confused and dislocated person who's trying to put himself together again. But at least I'm trying.

Marcello Carlin, Tuesday, 25 March 2003 09:07 (twenty-three years ago)

They were truly bad. They were so bad they were painful. And that was the band I was supposed to review. And now I'm facing the dilemma of do I not write about them cause I can't be nice about them honestly, or do I be honest about how DULL they were?

But twas a good evening, yes, and good to see you out of the house, Marcello!

kate, Tuesday, 25 March 2003 09:15 (twenty-three years ago)

Well I did it. Walked out of my job today - it was a long time coming but managerial idiocy saw to it. Yet again, of course, I count my blessings that I am a temp and can do things like walk out of jobs which are bummers. Needless nitpicking, manager peering over my shoulder every two seconds. Fuck that. I said elsewhere I was going to get rid of negative factors in my life, and by God I've got rid of one here. I am NOT going to let mediocre fuckwits bring me down to their level...especially when I have done my job QUICKLY and EFFICIENTLY, met deadlines, but no - no praise, no congrats, just nitpicking. So I have rejected them. If I never had to go back to the NHS it would still be too soon.

Marcello Carlin, Wednesday, 26 March 2003 16:48 (twenty-three years ago)

I wish I never had to keep coming back to this thread. But shit just keeps on happening.

As usual it is to do with The Day Job. My agency have offered me a three-week gig at the Royal Free, starting tomorrow. But "the consultant is difficult and you'll have to jump straight in." And there's nothing else on offer. It was: take that or starve. They more or less forced me into accepting it. So another three weeks of misery, stress and shouting to look forward to.

And I could so easily have said no. I could so easily just walk away from the fucking NHS RIGHT NOW so why don't I? Because I need the money. Because of fucking money. Because I cannot earn enough from IPC Media to get rid of the NHS. Because I'm weak and cling on to things which have long since stopped being useful to me.

I actually think that walking out in front of the next container lorry to come down Streatham High Road would be less painful than having to endure this fucking cycle of misery OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

You know? It doesn't matter which jobs I take. It doesn't matter which hospital I work at, or whether consultants are "difficult" or not. It would be exactly the same pattern, wherever I went.

Fed up with the whole fucking circus.

Marcello Carlin, Monday, 31 March 2003 09:05 (twenty-three years ago)

good luck tomorrow marcello.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 31 March 2003 09:12 (twenty-three years ago)

Yes, best of luck with the new job. Don't let the consultants grind your peppercorns, whatever you do.

Liz :x (Liz :x), Monday, 31 March 2003 10:26 (twenty-three years ago)

Marcello, it's not so long ago that you had no music journalism income at all - now you have enough that you can afford to work part time on the NHS stuff. Seems to me that there is every chance that there will be enough work there eventually, in some months, that you will be able to thrive on the writing alone.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Monday, 31 March 2003 15:43 (twenty-three years ago)

here's hoping, martin!

Anyway, despite my agency doing their best to scare me (think I'll change my agency for a start!), the Royal Free was remarkably quiet and placid. Own office YAY!!!! but no internet access for temps GRRR!!!! so will have to do all posting/emailing in the evening/at weekends for a bit.

Hopefully I will be having company for my usual Saturday morning record shopping binge this weekend! :-) So things, as tend to be the case, aren't that bad after all.

Marcello Carlin, Tuesday, 1 April 2003 15:16 (twenty-three years ago)

Grrr!! I had planned to spend this morning posting some articles on CoM - seeing as I wasnt able to post anything last week - and, right on cue, Blogger starts playing silly buggers. Gah! What's the point of having a blog if you can't ACCESS IT WHEN YOU WANT AND WHEN IT SUITS YOU? Even when I try moving it somewhere else (Movable Type) that gets fucked up.

I see there's now an ILx blog (see, that's how out of touch I am) so I might post the pieces on there for now. Petula Clark and Yo La Tengo, if anyone's interested.

Marcello Carlin, Sunday, 13 April 2003 08:59 (twenty-three years ago)

Well I can't post these two pieces anywhere now, seeing as the crappy PC at work managed to wipe clean the disk on which both these articles had been placed. I'm putting CoM to bed for awhile. I think both blog and I need a break.

Marcello Carlin, Monday, 14 April 2003 17:30 (twenty-three years ago)

Hooray! Managed to recover both pieces and they are up on CoM NOW!

Still taking a break though.

Marcello Carlin, Tuesday, 15 April 2003 18:07 (twenty-three years ago)

one year passes...
Hmph! That break is now permanent, not just because of ongoing depression/bereavement-related issues but also because I'd become tired of blogging. In the end I was writing to order for an audience rather than writing myself and that's where the point of doing it was lost. I could see it all coming: "MC, write about You Are The Quarry! MC, write about Britney's Greatest Hits! MC, tell me what records to buy!" and I thought fuck it, I'm not prepared to shoulder that bloody burden. Also the music blogosphere is a relatively ordered and interrelational organism now; you read blog X or blog Y (and/or blog Y's reactions to blog X) and you know exactly what you're going to get - you're not surprised any more. Territories have been staked out, boundaries defined, and it doesn't particularly stimulate me, either as a reader or as a participant.

Strange to look back at CoM and marvel at the energy I somehow found in myself to write in depth about EVERY piece of music which came my way; the ongoing dialogues with the original Stevie Nixed blog, and so on and so forth. Now it seems clear to me that it must have been something comparable to the unusually intense light you see burning from a light bulb just before it fizzles out forever; it was semi-directionless energy harnessed as a means of coping with loss. Now I feel increasingly that music ended for me when Laura died, but I'll come back to that particular subject later in my ongoing 1974 series on NYLPM.

Depression has been particularly bad these last couple of months, which won't be news to anyone I imagine. While in Paris I seriously contemplated the idea of entering a monastery. Unbelievable, really - just to find a means to hide from the world. Then I remembered what Leonard Cohen said about the average diet in monasteries and that put me off.

The Clear Spot programme was a marvel but clearly not one that can be repeated.

The recent break-up has robbed me of the miniscule amount of confidence and self-esteem I'd regained these past 12 months. Now I don't trust anyone, prefer to stay away from everyone, because it's preferable to sticking your nose out and having it cut off.

Donnie Smith The Quiz Kid, Tuesday, 21 September 2004 07:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Is there anyway that you can try to turn your recent relationship into a positive? I mean this from the pov that you managed to have a relationship, certainly one thing you didn't imagine yourself doing at all iirc. So this one didn't work out, but there are still good times to be had. I wasn't fortunate enough to know Laura, but I am sure that she would only ever want you to be happy. I am sure that wherever she is (I happen to believe that loved ones will always be with us) her heart is breaking just as much as yours because she has to watch you go through such awful pain & is unable to help you, or comfort you as I'm sure she did in the past.
I don't know if I'm just being a blathering idiot, as I know I am not the most eloquent of people, but as long as you know that my intentions are good, I'm sure you'll be able to know where my thoughts are coming from.

PinXorchiXoR (Pinkpanther), Tuesday, 21 September 2004 07:57 (twenty-one years ago)

hope things improve for you marcello, sorry to hear that you're in a trough right now... just remember that it is just for *right now* and that life goes up and down.

stevie (stevie), Tuesday, 21 September 2004 08:02 (twenty-one years ago)

(xpost to P)

I keep wondering whether Laura was the exception that proved the rule with me. I felt like a pretty solitary person when I was a teenager, and I feel that way again now. L was the only person who had the humour, compassion and patience to be able to "get through" to me.

The last "relationship" was, well there are the inverted commas there - we were both looking for substitutes for other people we couldn't have. It's a horror when several months into a relationship you realise that you really have nothing in common with this person. It was too uncomfortable. Going to San Francisco and Seattle maybe camouflaged the inherent difficulties we had. It was like working in an office with someone you hate and just cannot get on with, but you're stuck there with them, day and night. Maybe that's too much of an exaggeration - we don't "hate" each other, we're just not compatible. What (or who) she wants out of life isn't what (or who) I want. It happens. It will also teach me to rush into something without first looking carefully.

Donnie Smith The Quiz Kid, Tuesday, 21 September 2004 08:11 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't think there will ever be anyone to 'replace' Laura. Why would you want you? She was your everything (words like soulmate etc don't always cut it I find) & as such will never be replaced. That said, there are still fun times to be had. Sometimes you have just got to jump in feet first. Maybe you'll get hurt again, but is that any worse to what you are feeling now? And who knows, you may just meet some interesting/wonderful/supportive/similar (delete as appropriate) people which will make your life somewhat more bearable.

PinXorchiXoR (Pinkpanther), Tuesday, 21 September 2004 08:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, I did jump in feet first (after two years of having cold feet) and I got hurt so that's taught me not to, as it were, try it again. Yeah, I'd say that being kicked in the behind repeatedly is worse than the way I'm feeling now.

Donnie Smith The Quiz Kid, Tuesday, 21 September 2004 08:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Next time, then, walk in gently with both feet, pause when it reaches your swimming trunks, then gradually inch in further as you get used to the temperature.

(not a bad analogy, actually)

Markelby (Mark C), Tuesday, 21 September 2004 08:37 (twenty-one years ago)

But some ppl like being kicked in the ass. (sorry, my attempt at humour.)
I know what you are saying, but how could it be worse? You say that you would end it all if it wasn't for the pain. That suggests to me that you don't want to end it at all. Perhaps there still is some glimmer of hope? How did you meet Laura? Did you take a chance on something?

PinXorchiXoR (Pinkpanther), Tuesday, 21 September 2004 08:38 (twenty-one years ago)

See, the thing is with me and Laura, the transition from friends to partners took three years. It was very gradual but also very natural. Hard to believe it if you look at me now, but in my student days I was extremely sociable, took pleasure in meeting new people and making new people.

Trouble is now that I'm a forty-year-old neurotic widower (41 in January!) who has kind of painted himself into his own corner. These days large crowds of people and noise do my head in, so that rules out pubs, clubs and FAPs. Perhaps that's just a convenient excuse for me to shut myself off from the world without having to go to the hard work of doing something about the situation.

I am aware that any lasting future relationship is likely to take a long time to develop and will evolve from a deep friendship. Problem is, because of age, circumstances and awareness of one's own mortality (the "running out of time" train of thought), I'm as guilty as anyone of seeking a transient quick fix "relationship" without realising that things do not happen overnight or that I have to be in the right psychological frame of mind in order to allow even the possibility to present itself. God knows when I'm likely to regain that.

Donnie Smith The Quiz Kid, Tuesday, 21 September 2004 08:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Self-correction: I should have said "making new friends" in the first paragraph.

Y'know, when you're 18 you're not too bothered about the passage of time. 18-21 seems (seemed) no time at all. Whole lives in front of us, and all that.

Just before L's cancer came on we had started to plan for children, so that would have been more "whole lives" in front of us, as parents, to enjoy. But that didn't happen, so consequently I am 40 and have nothing else to take my mind off that fact.

Donnie Smith The Quiz Kid, Tuesday, 21 September 2004 08:49 (twenty-one years ago)

See, the thing is with me and Laura, the transition from friends to partners took three years. It was very gradual but also very natural. Hard to believe it if you look at me now, but in my student days I was extremely sociable, took pleasure in meeting new people and making new people.
Well if you used to be like that, why should things be any different now? You are a richer person for having experienced what you have. I know that sounds kind of stupid (but given the choice would you rather not have met Laura if you knew what was going to happen?), but you had a wonderful person in your life who sadly is not with us anymore, but surely you are a better person as a result of knowing her.
Trouble is now that I'm a forty-year-old neurotic widower (41 in January!) who has kind of painted himself into his own corner. These days large crowds of people and noise do my head in, so that rules out pubs, clubs and FAPs. Perhaps that's just a convenient excuse for me to shut myself off from the world without having to go to the hard work of doing something about the situation.
Ah, you've just kinda answered my initial question. However, I do think it's a convenient excuse. If something happened to my b/f, I have no idea where I would even begin to start rebuilding my life, or if indeed I would want to. I know my b/f though & I know that the last thing he would want, would be for me to 'wait to die' as such. It is a waste of any person's life. You have a lot to offer & you really should focus on the positive things (and negative - you are a whole package after all) that go to make up you.
I am aware that any lasting future relationship is likely to take a long time to develop and will evolve from a deep friendship. Problem is, because of age, circumstances and awareness of one's own mortality (the "running out of time" train of thought), I'm as guilty as anyone of seeking a transient quick fix "relationship" without realising that things do not happen overnight or that I have to be in the right psychological frame of mind in order to allow even the possibility to present itself.
I think everyone wants a quick fix, it's human nature. Here you have the upper hand because you know 'a quick fix' is not always the best solution. These things can take time. With regards to being in the right frame of mind, there the hard work lies. The more effort you put in, the greater the rewards. This too will not happen over night. You cannot get to your age (any adult age actually) without having had a past. your particular past means that you bring a lot to a relationship that other ppl may not have dealt with/been through before. These issues do not mean you are off the market, it just means that the person that will suit you best in a relationship will have to be an understanding, supportive person who will be able to cope with your past. These ppl do exist I can assure you.

PinXorchiXoR (Pinkpanther), Tuesday, 21 September 2004 09:03 (twenty-one years ago)

It only takes the slightest thing to set the grief off again. This morning I was on the bus and this lady came and sat next to me. Poking its head out of her bag was a lovely little Westie, maybe two years old. Laura loved animals, and Westies were her favourite type of dog. I found it very hard to keep my countenance.

Also because I have zero self-esteem, I tend to scare people away from me - it's pre-emptive, you know, do it before they do it to you. I was the same at school. When any girl approached me I automatically assumed that they were taking the piss because no girl in her right mind would want to go out with me, so I always said no, and usually not in a pleasant way. As I say, these problems are not recent, they go back an awfully long way.

Donnie Smith The Quiz Kid, Tuesday, 21 September 2004 09:17 (twenty-one years ago)

But only you can change the course of your life. Do you want to be happy (or at least give yourself the chance to be) or stay as you are?

PinXorchiXoR (Pinkpanther), Tuesday, 21 September 2004 09:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Also, the moment you saw the dog, you should have thought 'laura loved those dogs, I'm sure she is smiling too.' I will tell you something now that I haven't ever written on ILX (or indeed told some of my friends) but whenever I see a Robin, I am sure that it is my grandparents looking over me. Sometimes I see a robin & I get upset, but other times I am comforted somehow. i know that sounds like complete rubbish, but the funny (??!!) thing about grief is that there are no hard & fast rules & you gotta do whatever suits or is right for you.

PinXorchiXoR (Pinkpanther), Tuesday, 21 September 2004 09:23 (twenty-one years ago)

I am not sure whether I have it in me to be happy again. If you're asking me do I want to be happy, then the answer is I don't know whether I'm capable of it, not if it's not inherently within me.

I'm ashamed to say that the moment I saw the dog, I also saw the lady and wondered to myself "should I talk to her"? But she turned out to be a bit of a prat so I didn't bother.

What suits me/is right for me apropos grief is to go away for a year and grieve properly. But I cannot financially afford to do that, so I instead have to like it or lump it.

Donnie Smith The Quiz Kid, Tuesday, 21 September 2004 09:30 (twenty-one years ago)

For what it's worth, I think everyone wants to be happy, it's just that not everyone is prepared to work towards being happy. Also, you don't have to like it, but you do have to lump it, so I suggest you give yourself a grieving period. However long, that's a personal choice. During that time you wallow as much as possible in your grief. Get lots of old pics, letters, cds, whatever out & look at them constantly. Tend Laura's grave as much as possible. The key is to force yourself to think about it as much as you can. (although i'm sure you already do this) & then when the time is up, that is it. Put the pics away, put the music away, cut down the amount of times you tend Laura's grave etc. This will be a really tough thing to do, but you will eventually be able to find a more cathartic/healing kind of reflection. Moving/getting on with things is not about forgeting or trying to put Laura or your grief out of your head, it is about having a shuffle of your priorities. Your top priority at the moment seems to be Laura, although this is totally understandable, your priority has to be you. Occupy your time again, for you. It's all about you. Not you as in 'Marcello & Laura', just you. Go to a pub/club/FAP, even if it is just to moan about it afterwards! Set yourself mini goals for each day/week (whatever you feel comfortable with) but each time you start to sit & contemplate what you have lost you just gotta stop it there & then. Get up & do something. You will get to a point where you will be able to look at pics or listen to music & think back to happier times without feeling totally consumed with grief. If I can help with this (if indeed you even want to give this approach a try) just give me a shout & I'll help as much as I am able.

PinXorchiXoR (Pinkpanther), Tuesday, 21 September 2004 09:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Pink - everything you have said here is absolutely spot-on.

Dr. C (Dr. C), Tuesday, 21 September 2004 09:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Well that's what I've been doing for the last three years - what do you think Church Of Me was for? I've thought about nothing/no one else.

My brain tells me that when I did the Clear Spot programme that was when "the time was up." But my heart tells me differently. I wish I could draw a line but I can't because (a) life doesn't work like that; and (b) all strategies I have tried to get on with a new life (including new partner) have failed.

Pubs and clubs, you see, just aren't my thing. They are not me. Too loud and claustrophobic. I like quiet and space. Walking in the country, or around galleries, or just walking through seldom walked-through parts of London.

I don't think there's a "me" to prioritise - just a ghost.

Donnie Smith The Quiz Kid, Tuesday, 21 September 2004 10:25 (twenty-one years ago)

I like quiet and space

Hence your attendance at improv gigs Marcello?

Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 21 September 2004 10:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Well them Marcello I am shit outta ideas. I would like to help you, but it seems to me that you are content with what you have & do not want to change at all. I sure it is difficult for you & I hope you can find happiness somewhere.
(Oh & for what it's worth, the most difficult part of getting/moving on with things, it's telling your heart to be quiet.)

PinXorchiXoR (Pinkpanther), Tuesday, 21 September 2004 10:31 (twenty-one years ago)

This grief or whatever you might want to call it is obviously something you're hanging on to for ego identification much the same way some people can never quit smoking or drinking because they've always thought of themselves in their mind's eye as a person who smokes or drinks. It is now something you have learned to use to sweep aside insecurities about other aspects of your life like your inability to socialize well with others and you're obviously extremely reluctant to let it go.

Your grief went from obstacle to crutch a long time ago by my reckoning.

You can spend the rest of your life curmudgeonly and unhappy, nobody's stopping you, but if you don't want to, then don't, stand up on your own two feet and walk away.

TOMBOT, Tuesday, 21 September 2004 11:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Er, didn't you read the second part of the title of this thread?

Namely: DO NOT READ IF YOU HATE ME?????!!!!!!

This is MY thread, this is how I feel and if you don't like reading about my misery then DON'T FUCKING READ IT!!!!!!!!

Got it? Good. Bye.

Donnie Smith The Quiz Kid, Tuesday, 21 September 2004 11:20 (twenty-one years ago)

If I want to fucking feel sorry for myself for 9000 posts on this thread I will. That's why I started it. I'm not holding a gun to anybody's head forcing them to read it.

Donnie Smith The Quiz Kid, Tuesday, 21 September 2004 11:22 (twenty-one years ago)

In my case I am just trying to help someone (or at least offer some ideas) as to what may help them out of the mire that they seem to be in. As I said earlier, I do not pretend to know you or your situation, but I don't like to think of anyone thinking that one of the options that they'd like to consider is suicide. Just call me a glutton for punishment if you like. Oh & would you rather I left you to your own devices on this thread?

PinXorchiXoR (Pinkpanther), Tuesday, 21 September 2004 11:26 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm not having a go at you, only idiots who clearly come on this thread deliberately to start a war DESPITE WHAT IT SAYS IN THE THREAD'S TITLE.

Donnie Smith The Quiz Kid, Tuesday, 21 September 2004 11:29 (twenty-one years ago)

I realised that, but I just wanted to clarify my position & why I am on this thread.

PinXorchiXoR (Pinkpanther), Tuesday, 21 September 2004 11:33 (twenty-one years ago)

I have no idea why I am getting involved in this, but here goes...

Have you:

1. Gotten your depression and social anxiety treated? Therapy + medication?

2. Gone to a grief counselor and sought out support groups for people who have lost spouses (maybe one for younger people).

supercub, Tuesday, 21 September 2004 11:58 (twenty-one years ago)

I answered these questions earlier on this thread.

Donnie Smith The Quiz Kid, Tuesday, 21 September 2004 12:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Hit a nerve, Marcello?

Also, why do you think you deserve the least courtesy on these boards whatsoever?

TOMBOT, Tuesday, 21 September 2004 12:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Tom, leave it. Marcello started this thread to have a moan, and he's having a moan on the thread. He's in no state to get into a fight, and you'll most likely end up feeling like an arse once you've provoked and angered him.

Markelby (Mark C), Tuesday, 21 September 2004 12:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Marcello can also feel sorry for himself for 9000 diary entries in the comfort of his own home, what other reason besides the fact that he chooses to wear his personal tragedy as a badge on his forehead would he go posting to an internet messageboard where he's achieved great renown as a disrespectful troll?

TOMBOT, Tuesday, 21 September 2004 12:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Didn't they teach you to read in the remedial school?

I DON'T WANT YOU ON THIS THREAD. If I wanted haters to come on this thread I would have subtitled it "please read if you hate me."

I don't want you on this thread, or any of my threads, because you are a pathetic Republican scumbag, and I wish you'd fucking died of cancer instead of Laura. You're a waste of fucking oxygen. I hope you get cancer and I hope you die slowly and painfully from it, preferably in front of your idiot mother so that she can regret ever letting your father penetrate her cunt, so that she can watch you gasping for breath, sipping your Complan, deprived of speech, energy and life.

I wish you were dead. But then perhaps Al-Qaeda might get a second wind and blow your worthless atoms into dust, because this world would be better without you.

You don't like it? Tough. That's what bereavement does to a person. Makes them angry, unreasonable and unfocused.

Now fuck off out of my thread before I ask the moderators to block you.

Donnie Smith The Quiz Kid, Tuesday, 21 September 2004 12:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Eh, you're right. Not for provoking and angering him, but already feeling like one for wasting my own time. Remarkably unsatisfying.

TOMBOT, Tuesday, 21 September 2004 12:21 (twenty-one years ago)

I SAID FUCK OFF YOU PATHETIC LITTLE MAN, YOU OBNOXIOUS LITTLE BULLY.

Donnie Smith The Quiz Kid, Tuesday, 21 September 2004 12:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Moderator, can you block all American college dorks from personal threads which I start, because clearly the disclaimer in this thread's title is insufficient for the low level of literacy that they enjoy.

Donnie Smith The Quiz Kid, Tuesday, 21 September 2004 12:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Marcello - I really, really believe that you have to get involved in some new activities. Not to *forget*, but to convince you that you have a place in the world. You have to decide what sort of things you can face doing and go do them. The provisos are these : a) they should involve other people (evening classes, art/book circles, walking groups, learn a language, learn to paint - I'm trying to avoid suggesting pubs/clubs you see!) b) some of them should be you making a commitment to help someone else (walk a dog, maybe a WESTIE, for someone! visit a pensioner, teach someone to play the piano). Try a few new things and meet some new people. Don't put too much pressure on yourself to begin with, you can ease yourself in gently, but on the other hand don't not do things because you're having a bad day. I'm not really talking about meeting a partner here, just meeting *people*. Pls don't react to my suggestions with your 'oh but as soon as people see me approaching they see the stench of ugly desperation' nonsense. That's bullshit and I can't be doing with it. You're as good as anyone else, Marcello and you have so much to be proud of about yourself - your writings, your inherent kindness, your knowledge of all things, your resilience and you usually have a pretty sharp haircut too!

Now I can't deny that any/all of the above would take a supreme effort, but you know there is a lot in what Tom says - ultimately you have to decide whether the wretched time you have had over the past couple of years is going to finish you for good or not. You shouldn't be in the position you're in, you don't deserve it, nobody deserves to lose their wife like you have, but it happened and you are capable of finding a way out of this. Do you want to teavj me to play jazz piano?

Dr. C (Dr. C), Tuesday, 21 September 2004 12:39 (twenty-one years ago)

what a complete fraud

cinniblount (James Blount), Tuesday, 21 September 2004 13:31 (twenty-one years ago)

it's all a big lie folx!

cinniblount (James Blount), Tuesday, 21 September 2004 13:31 (twenty-one years ago)

**what a complete fraud**

Who?

Dr. C (Dr. C), Tuesday, 21 September 2004 13:38 (twenty-one years ago)

phoebe

cinniblount (James Blount), Tuesday, 21 September 2004 13:45 (twenty-one years ago)

(FOR THE RECORD: If you want people to not read your thread it might be a good idea to identify yourself in the thread title.)

Dan Perry '08 (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 21 September 2004 13:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Erm, I don't understand, should I not have been contributing to this thread? Have I made a fool of myself here or what?

PinXorchiXoR (Pinkpanther), Tuesday, 21 September 2004 13:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Explain your comments Blount.

Dr. C (Dr. C), Tuesday, 21 September 2004 13:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh for fuck's sake can we PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE not do this?

Dan Perry '08 (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 21 September 2004 13:53 (twenty-one years ago)

(xpost to Dan's previous post)

Well Dan I think even if I did that the usual suspects would go on it and cause trouble anyway, and I've had enough of it, so could you please just delete this thread? Thanks.

Marcello Carlin, Tuesday, 21 September 2004 13:54 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm not a moderator anymore and haven't been since before the move to the new server.

Dan Perry '08 (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 21 September 2004 13:56 (twenty-one years ago)

OK, well I've left a request on the Moderator Request Forum, so whoever's moderating now - ignore the thread title and first post as I was incensed with anger when I wrote them; the thread deletion request is in my second post.

Marcello Carlin, Tuesday, 21 September 2004 13:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Marcello, is your hotmail addy working?

PinXorchiXoR (Pinkpanther), Tuesday, 21 September 2004 13:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes.

Marcello Carlin, Tuesday, 21 September 2004 14:01 (twenty-one years ago)


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