"Hipster" as pejorative.

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This word seems to be used exclusively as a pejorative here on ILX and elsewhere. 'Twas always thus? Was there a time someone might have proudly flown the hipster flag?

Amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 10 February 2003 17:25 (12 years ago) Permalink

Are you suggesting that it should be elevated? Doesn't it *SOUND* ridiculous to you? Wouldn't you wince at the tag if you were branded with it? Isn't it -- at best -- a back-handed compliment?

I think it's the second portion of the word ("ster"....or "sta" if you're 50 Cent) that lends it the deragatory tone.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 10 February 2003 17:30 (12 years ago) Permalink

i think the anti-hipsterism is partly a jealousy, in that often people want to be a hipster, but, for whatever reason, are not. or they want to be perceived a certain way, and are not. to use the term as a perjorative then downgrades the people that they might like to be like?

or, perhaps people think they would be better, ie "if i was a hipster, i wouldnt be pimping undie hip hop and dfa records but tha good shit!"

on the other hand, maybe hipsters are the new jocks?

but, also, who exactly are the hipsters? it seems quite an amorphous description, is it really just beautiful people with asymetric hair? in which case...i think you have your answer

gareth (gareth), Monday, 10 February 2003 17:31 (12 years ago) Permalink

we shd use another, fonder and more forgiving diminutive, viz "hipkin"?

mark s (mark s), Monday, 10 February 2003 17:31 (12 years ago) Permalink

ie, is the 'hipster' a straw man?

gareth (gareth), Monday, 10 February 2003 17:32 (12 years ago) Permalink

tim h to thread!

mark s (mark s), Monday, 10 February 2003 17:32 (12 years ago) Permalink

What's wrong with being a person who is exceptionally aware of or interested in the latest trends and tastes, especially a devotee of modern jazz?

Lara (Lara), Monday, 10 February 2003 17:32 (12 years ago) Permalink

Actually scratch the modern jazz bit as there's plenty wrong with that.

Lara (Lara), Monday, 10 February 2003 17:32 (12 years ago) Permalink

-ster
suff.

One that is associated with, participates in, makes, or does: songster.
One that is: youngster.



Source: The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition

Amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 10 February 2003 17:33 (12 years ago) Permalink

haha gareth that "jealousy" argument is bullshit and you know it

i havent been associated with my hips so much since i've stopped dancing

jess (dubplatestyle), Monday, 10 February 2003 17:34 (12 years ago) Permalink

I think JtN was using it in the arms war sense. Constantly having an ear to what the guys who thinks they're cool are saying and doing repetitively and staying one step ahead. Avoiding clichéd opinions and tastes. But this itself becomes a kind of cliché.

N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 10 February 2003 17:35 (12 years ago) Permalink

yeah, what is a hipster - someone who is clued up? cynical or too self aware? fakery? trendy?

jel -- (jel), Monday, 10 February 2003 17:35 (12 years ago) Permalink

thinks = think

N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 10 February 2003 17:36 (12 years ago) Permalink

i am never sure what is meant by the word, especially since "hipster" musical taste and the musical tastes here overlap a bit, even if we aren't all hipsters here. for example, in the usa, "original pirate material" was released by Vice and it has been listed as a cd that hipsters listen to. but i have the album, and i don't think i am a hipster. actually, i am pretty sure i am not.

Aaron Grossman (aajjgg), Monday, 10 February 2003 17:36 (12 years ago) Permalink

Must consult lyrics to Zero. BRB.

jel -- (jel), Monday, 10 February 2003 17:36 (12 years ago) Permalink

nope no insight in Zero, sorry.

jel -- (jel), Monday, 10 February 2003 17:38 (12 years ago) Permalink

In the UK at least, The Streets are now far too '12 CD owner' to be a hipster thing. And the Garage for indie kids jibe has stuck.

N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 10 February 2003 17:40 (12 years ago) Permalink

no one would ever admit to being one, though we'd all like for others to think of us as one

Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Monday, 10 February 2003 17:43 (12 years ago) Permalink

hipster (1941) "person who is keenly aware of the new and stylish," from hip "up-to-date," attested from 1904 in black slang, probably a variant of hep, though it is recorded four years earlier. 

From Online Etymology Dictionary.

Amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 10 February 2003 17:43 (12 years ago) Permalink

So in the context of prewar black culture, would "hipster" have been used in the pejorative?

Amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 10 February 2003 17:44 (12 years ago) Permalink

yes the streets are most certainly not hipster!

ok, i was talking with an ilx on aim about this the other week, and i think we both agreed that, for us at least, there was a simultaneous disparagement of the seemingly closed world of the hipster, with a desire to live a similar life, to be in williamsburg or whatever, because it seems different to what we have, but then a realisation that we couldnt be one, because we couldnt be like those lipstickandcigarettes.com people even if we tried. but why couldnt we?

also...

http://www.norfolkwindmills.com/nathan.html (written back in 2000, so excuse the rubbishness)

gareth (gareth), Monday, 10 February 2003 17:45 (12 years ago) Permalink

Let's get past the contemporary usage of "hipster" for a moment and think historically.

Amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 10 February 2003 17:46 (12 years ago) Permalink

i am moving to greenpoint so that i can tell everyone that williamsburg is for poseurs. then i will be a hipper hipster than other hipsters. it will be grebt. if greenpoin is lame by the time that i move to the city then i will got to bushwick or east flatbush...

Aaron Grossman (aajjgg), Monday, 10 February 2003 17:48 (12 years ago) Permalink

though we'd all like for others to think of us as one

I wouldn't. Cause most people who use the term either misunderstand the nature of a hipster or else understand it only too well (the former = most people in the media, the latter = Jerry the Nipper).

N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 10 February 2003 17:49 (12 years ago) Permalink

The problem with using the term "hipster" (contemporary, sorry A) is that it carries with it the implication that the people are only hip because they aspire to be -- that they forced and elevated themselves into a social category by adapting and doing the "right" things. But this simply isn't always true: on some level loads of them are doing whatever it is they're doing because they actually like it, and reducing the whole thing to sneering at "hipsters" is basically the equivalent of the whole "Marcia, Marcia, Marcia!" complaint.

What tends to bother me is when people act intimidated by "hipsters" (e.g. "Boy, I feel really uncool in this crowd," a comment I heard from two different people last night). So I was thinking about this quite a bit: anyone can be or at least come off as a hipster (this is the whole sneering complaint, right -- that it can be earned, that it's something one works toward or aspires to?), and if you don't, well ... that's not a failure in some hip sweepstakes but a set of simple decisions about what you like and who you want to be. So I'd prefer to see people who don't consider themselves hipsters stand up for those choices -- not cave and say "these people are cooler than me."

This is also why I'm amused by people who always use the sneery-pejorative "hipster" -- on some level it says you believe these people actually are cooler than you and that you're bothered by that!

nabisco (nabisco), Monday, 10 February 2003 17:54 (12 years ago) Permalink

But obviously the root of all that is the sense that "hipsters" are forever looking down on everyone else for being not-hip. So why are so many people so affected by that potential looking-down? Why does it have any purchase whatsoever?

nabisco (nabisco), Monday, 10 February 2003 17:56 (12 years ago) Permalink

"HIPSTER" comes from the Opium dens of yore, where customers would lie on their hips. No bull.

Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Monday, 10 February 2003 17:57 (12 years ago) Permalink

(Okay, three posts in I see what I'm getting at: people actively defer to hipsters in matters of taste, and thus they prize and fear the hipsters' opinions about them. They should stop that.)

nabisco (nabisco), Monday, 10 February 2003 17:58 (12 years ago) Permalink

Actually I think there is a talent to being trendy (in the non-pejorative sense of "following trends, staying up-to-date") that I can admire without irony. I'd like to believe, but don't actually, that it's just a matter of choices I've made that I am not a hipster.

Amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 10 February 2003 17:59 (12 years ago) Permalink

This is also why I'm amused by people who always use the sneery-pejorative "hipster" -- on some level it says you believe these people actually are cooler than you and that you're bothered by that!

A lot of people think 'cool' is shallow and thus to be mistrusted (but maybe resented too).

Differences between being 'cool', 'trendy', 'hip' and 'a hipster'?

I get intimidated sometimes in Hoxton bars or whatever where the clientele look trendier and more confident than I do, but I know that they mostly would be v.uncool if you actually talked to them. Certainly not hipsters anyway. Hipsters have to know stuff. Though I'm not you could be one and look a total state. Maybe, though.

N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 10 February 2003 17:59 (12 years ago) Permalink

Ah, but the importance of staying up to date style-wise is arguably important, as Billy Joel once croaked:

"And if you can't understand why your world is so dead,
why you've got to keep in style and feed your head
Well you're 21 and still your mother makes your bed,
And that's too long"

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 10 February 2003 18:03 (12 years ago) Permalink

Amateurist you are a hipster. Everyone ever on ILX apart from maybe GALE is a hipster.

It's one of those things like "middle class" -- everyone thinks they're pretty hip but not an actualy HIPSTER like THOSE people over there. Those people, in turn, think the same damn thing right up through supermodel egomaniacs, who are in thrall to the ultra-square and their ability to live normal rational lives.

But by any serious measure of "hipster," pretty much everyone here is one.

nabisco (nabisco), Monday, 10 February 2003 18:05 (12 years ago) Permalink

I refuse to waste any precious time figuring out what is 'fresh' 'new' or 'hot', as in a year's time or less it will be 'stale' 'old' or 'cold'. If no one's wearing, buying, reading, listening, or watching something in 5 years time, doesn't it show a lack of quality (whatever that is)

Oops (Oops), Monday, 10 February 2003 18:07 (12 years ago) Permalink

what about monSTERS?
Oooh, they're worse than hipSTERS

Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Monday, 10 February 2003 18:07 (12 years ago) Permalink

Amateurist you are a hipster. Everyone ever on ILX apart from maybe GALE is a hipster.

No, I'm just a weirdo.

Christine "Green Leafy Dragon" Indigo (cindigo), Monday, 10 February 2003 18:12 (12 years ago) Permalink

i agree with nabiscos first 3 posts, as usual he got it down EXACT

not so sure about the 'everyone here is a hipster' thing, but "i dont care about whats cool right now etc etc" is usually the hipsters trademark, because, like, if you were a hipster you wouldnt admit to that right?

gareth (gareth), Monday, 10 February 2003 18:13 (12 years ago) Permalink

No, it's just that you're likely to have different criteria for 'cool' than they do.

N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 10 February 2003 18:15 (12 years ago) Permalink

I guess it depends on whether you're obeying a widely shared idea of what's cool or whether that idea is more hermetic. Is hipsterism a social quality or is there a such thing as Platonic hipsterism?

Amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 10 February 2003 18:16 (12 years ago) Permalink

Kismet N. + Amateurist!

Amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 10 February 2003 18:16 (12 years ago) Permalink

My grammar was not cool.

N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 10 February 2003 18:17 (12 years ago) Permalink

is it possible to be a populist hipster?

jess (dubplatestyle), Monday, 10 February 2003 18:19 (12 years ago) Permalink

Hefner?
Or is he just cool and not hip? I really need to think this through

Oops (Oops), Monday, 10 February 2003 18:22 (12 years ago) Permalink

i always thought/used hipster as a patronising synonym of trendy, ie a follower, someone who is up to date but only looking at other people's clocks, y'know topshop without the kokosolaki endorsement

the most agreeable aspect of this used is that while said victim would still dislike being defined as cool maan (keep yr guard up) he/she might slightly prefer being called a hipster than a trendy... thus confirming their hipsterness!!!

zemko (bob), Monday, 10 February 2003 18:22 (12 years ago) Permalink

Of course, jess! (that's what ILM used to be about, isn't it?)

N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 10 February 2003 18:22 (12 years ago) Permalink

zing!

jess (dubplatestyle), Monday, 10 February 2003 18:23 (12 years ago) Permalink

hoho the joke's on him not me! sigh

zemko (bob), Monday, 10 February 2003 18:23 (12 years ago) Permalink

this is like one of those "atom in the tail of a dog" things isnt it?

jess (dubplatestyle), Monday, 10 February 2003 18:25 (12 years ago) Permalink

anyway basically the hipster level is nowhere near the top. it's gola shoes and airport bags zemko (bob), Monday, 10 February 2003 18:25 (12 years ago) Permalink

uhoh i didn't close somehting

zemko (bob), Monday, 10 February 2003 18:26 (12 years ago) Permalink

s'ok

zemko (bob), Monday, 10 February 2003 18:26 (12 years ago) Permalink

Theres a collection of adorno essays titled "the culture industry". Is that a good place to start with him? I don't want to dive into negative dialectics or dialectic of enlightenment right now, but adorno keeps coming up more and more in conversation and i feel i should know a bit more about him. I am sympathetic, btw, to his left wing antipopulism from what i know about him; i was just put off by the dismissiveness in those quotes and wondered where it might be coming from.

tɹi.ʃɪp (Treeship), Friday, 24 January 2014 15:34 (1 year ago) Permalink

even though I semi-defended them there I think it's a bit unfortunate that the culture industry stuff is so predominant in a lot of people's image of Adorno, no doubt there's a lot of brilliant thought in those essays but it's shrouded in a very singular and what now seems myopic worldview. I don't know him especially well but I'd recommend Aesthetic Theory, though if anything it's even tougher and more uncompromising than the two you mention.

Merdeyeux, Friday, 24 January 2014 15:41 (1 year ago) Permalink

I recently read a good secondary source on Adorno called "Art and Enlightenment" by David Roberts. Was actually kind of blown away by it. A bit older. 1991 or so.

ryan, Friday, 24 January 2014 15:46 (1 year ago) Permalink

aesthetic theory is not what anyone would call a readable book.

the essays in critical models, on the other hand, are fairly approachable (some were even written for radio presentation).

reading minima moralia would not be the best way to get a clear picture of adorno's 'doctrines', but its intermittent, quiet personal elements might surprise you.

j., Friday, 24 January 2014 16:07 (1 year ago) Permalink

Yeah, Minima Moralia is the thing of his I've found most readable – short (couple of paragraphs) thoughts about things. Every one of them made me think about stuff. Best place to begin, I'd say.

He's got a good essay called 'Commitment' too.

cardamon, Friday, 24 January 2014 17:49 (1 year ago) Permalink

I'll pick up minimamoralia tonight. I am intrigued by the quiet, personal elements. Those are my favorite parts of books.

tɹi.ʃɪp (Treeship), Friday, 24 January 2014 17:53 (1 year ago) Permalink

Thx

tɹi.ʃɪp (Treeship), Friday, 24 January 2014 17:53 (1 year ago) Permalink

Philosophy of Modern Music is also a good one, especially if you are a fan of Stravinsky/Schoenberg

Spaghetti Sauce Shampoo (Moodles), Friday, 24 January 2014 18:29 (1 year ago) Permalink

2 weeks pass...

saw this sweatshirt for sale in target the other day. can i just...

tɹi.ʃɪp (Treeship), Wednesday, 12 February 2014 04:49 (1 year ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

Inevitable product of Fox News commentators having to live in NYC

Dan I., Friday, 14 March 2014 17:55 (1 year ago) Permalink

There are four states of being in the cannabis society: cool, groovy, hip, and square, in that descending order.

how's life, Friday, 14 March 2014 18:00 (1 year ago) Permalink

http://nypost.com/2014/03/22/the-hipster-war-on-you-how-liberals-use-cool-as-a-weapon/

"Icons of cool like Robert Redford, Mark Zuckerberg, Jesse James and Yoko Ono get shredded in the book" - Mark Zuckerberg AND Yoko? What an iconoclast!!!

Herbie Handcock (Murgatroid), Saturday, 22 March 2014 22:44 (1 year ago) Permalink

jesse james the kinda nazi-ish biker?

how's life, Saturday, 22 March 2014 23:43 (1 year ago) Permalink

"Cool kids party it up at the Coachella Music Festival."

coops all on coops tbh (crüt), Sunday, 23 March 2014 00:25 (1 year ago) Permalink

^^^ predictably, use of the word "hipsters" marks the nadir of this terrible song. (don't worry, it happens in the first verse)

Many American citizens are literally paralyzed by (bernard snowy), Sunday, 23 March 2014 03:21 (1 year ago) Permalink

okay lmfao at this appalling cynicism:

How do the cool enslave you? By convincing you that:
- If you don't agree with them no one will like you.
- If you don't follow them you will miss out on life.
- If you don't listen to them you will die a lonely loser

How do you vanquish the cool and discover your own true self? Read this book.

Many American citizens are literally paralyzed by (bernard snowy), Sunday, 23 March 2014 03:23 (1 year ago) Permalink

it's like, yes, okay, when I was middle school I used to worry that I was literally retarded, and "a great conspiracy / Of books and people" had been constructed with the aim of making me *think* I was normal while everybody secretly laughed at the ape parading around in human clothing using the telepathic that I was also worried everyone but me possessed--fortunately I aged out of these fears before anybody gave me a book deal

Many American citizens are literally paralyzed by (bernard snowy), Sunday, 23 March 2014 03:27 (1 year ago) Permalink

Three cheers for hipsters, hip hip hooray!

très hip (Treeship), Sunday, 23 March 2014 03:34 (1 year ago) Permalink

Fast-forward to today, when, writes Gutfeld, "the Labor Department reports that only 47% of Americans have a full-time job. That’s because it’s hard to get full-time work as a maker of artisanal tricycles."

okay so this book appears to have been written by someone whose knowledge of the world is limited to the business+style sections of the new york times

Many American citizens are literally paralyzed by (bernard snowy), Sunday, 23 March 2014 03:42 (1 year ago) Permalink

... and you wanna call *me* the hipster!

Many American citizens are literally paralyzed by (bernard snowy), Sunday, 23 March 2014 03:43 (1 year ago) Permalink

Now a few groovy artisanal types are sounding the alarm about vaccines

yes, it is the """"cool"""" hipster people doing this, they are doing it to be cool, like noted hipster jenny mccarthy

linda cardellini (zachlyon), Sunday, 23 March 2014 04:19 (1 year ago) Permalink

it's all the same though. anyone who objects to anything about the status quo is the same, no matter the content of their objections. they need to take a chill pill and get with the program. a chill vaccine even.

très hip (Treeship), Sunday, 23 March 2014 05:15 (1 year ago) Permalink

shoot me up

markers, Sunday, 23 March 2014 05:34 (1 year ago) Permalink

does obamacare cover the chill vaccine?

sent from my butt (harbl), Sunday, 23 March 2014 14:12 (1 year ago) Permalink

haha i was coming here to post about this book. looks like a scream!

slam dunk, Sunday, 23 March 2014 23:59 (1 year ago) Permalink

i really love how the american right wing describes every cultural rift as a "war". so fun.

très hip (Treeship), Monday, 24 March 2014 00:06 (1 year ago) Permalink

They like war

sonic thedgehod (albvivertine), Monday, 24 March 2014 00:24 (1 year ago) Permalink

1 year passes...

still #1

scott seward, Sunday, 5 April 2015 13:11 (3 months ago) Permalink

, Sunday, 5 April 2015 13:42 (3 months ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

Probably fake but lmao

, Friday, 29 May 2015 11:57 (2 months ago) Permalink

Someone riding a unicycle was run over by a bus in my neighbourhood yesterday. Feel slightly guilty that my first thought was "fucking hipster twat".

Just noise and screaming and no musical value at all. (Colonel Poo), Friday, 29 May 2015 13:05 (2 months ago) Permalink

xp: that's real as fuck.

how's life, Friday, 29 May 2015 13:10 (2 months ago) Permalink

Is it real or fake? It sounds like it was written by someone who never actually interacted with "hipsters" but merely read about them online via a collection of image macros.

Evan, Friday, 29 May 2015 14:30 (2 months ago) Permalink

xxp most people i've seen riding unicycles are legitimate quirky weirdos who were in like circus club in high school and shit, not ncessarily hipsters?

marcos, Friday, 29 May 2015 15:16 (2 months ago) Permalink

does that make them more or less deserving of our scorn? tough call there...

too young for seapunk (Moodles), Friday, 29 May 2015 15:19 (2 months ago) Permalink

tbqf i support folks riding unicycles

marcos, Friday, 29 May 2015 15:23 (2 months ago) Permalink

& I looked & frowned & lo, the hipster was me

Heroic melancholy continues to have a forceful grip on (bernard snowy), Friday, 29 May 2015 19:27 (2 months ago) Permalink

Found out that Seattle has a bar called The Walrus and The Carpenter, which makes me wonder if the radio just plays the Decemberists over and over.

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Friday, 29 May 2015 19:36 (2 months ago) Permalink

I was there last summer and have a distinct memory that they were playing Thin Lizzy iirc.

joygoat, Friday, 29 May 2015 21:58 (2 months ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

i find this p awful. and the lol thumbs up reactions to it on twitter. i mean the stuff you see attributed to "hipsters" these days. i guess a pop-up streetfood market is in the core of the stereotype (despite the fact that these events are just full of every type of young person from all over london) but i've seen people on that "we want plates" twitter bemoaning "hipsters" when actually all the wooden boards etc are more typical of a provincial pub. a few months back there was a photo going around twitter entitled "a hipster, on his own in a pub, knitting. new trend?" and it was just some bearded nordic-looking man in his 40s. like just a person doing something vaguely unusual. if this is who people who aren't hipsters are then they deserve their perpetual disgruntlement.

doing my Objectives, handling some intense stuff (LocalGarda), Monday, 20 July 2015 09:38 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

the mainstreaming of hipster culture memes is definitely a weird thing because if you call anyone out on it they call you a hipster. like, you can't say 'hipster-bashing is played out now', because that phrase in itself is an open goal.

(no offence to people) (dog latin), Monday, 20 July 2015 10:18 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

never mind that nearly every other shop and restaurant in my commuter-belt hometown now describes itself as a boutique outlet and sports a twirly moustache on its shopfront.

(no offence to people) (dog latin), Monday, 20 July 2015 10:20 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

is liking musicals really seen as particularly antithetical to hipsterism? (I guess weeping every time you see a musical isn't that hipsterish, but weeping every time you see a musical just seems an odd thing for anyone to do)

pop addicts should "do their thing", whatever that may be (soref), Thursday, 23 July 2015 22:08 (1 week ago) Permalink

hipster today i think likes everything mainstream instead of the opposite

nose, Thursday, 23 July 2015 23:23 (1 week ago) Permalink

Freaky Trigger won the culture war

Treeship, Thursday, 23 July 2015 23:27 (1 week ago) Permalink

Where are the new mandarins?

Treeship, Thursday, 23 July 2015 23:29 (1 week ago) Permalink

lol at an ad for ads

Οὖτις, Thursday, 23 July 2015 23:30 (1 week ago) Permalink


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