Magic: The Gathering C/D

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before kaladesh the last one was jtms/stoneforge mystic.

ciderpress, Monday, 13 March 2017 13:44 (seven years ago) link

haven't thought or read too much about the bans, but why was emrakul chopped instead of marvel?

i find ppl going OTT criticizing wizards at every opportunity is overall a pretty tiresome element of the culture of the game, BUT... missing the saheeli combo entirely is fucking unreal.

Roberto Spiralli, Monday, 13 March 2017 13:57 (seven years ago) link

it definitely feels like something about their internal testing has been off recently - they missed reflector mage as a standard-playable card too

ciderpress, Monday, 13 March 2017 14:05 (seven years ago) link

almost as if in both cases the pairing of a gold card with a card of a different colour confounded them.

Roberto Spiralli, Monday, 13 March 2017 14:07 (seven years ago) link

although i guess reflector mage had rally to abuse it first

Roberto Spiralli, Monday, 13 March 2017 14:08 (seven years ago) link

wow, I thought that combo was totally done on purpose. it was figured out like 10 seconds after the card was spoiled, how the hell do they miss that?

frogbs, Monday, 13 March 2017 14:08 (seven years ago) link

emrakul was banned more for its overeffectiveness as a finisher and for the traverse the ulvenwald interaction than for the marvel interaction - it's got a really unfun 'playing with your prey' style of closing the game that wore itself thin really fast when it happened literally every game thanks to traverse. it was also enough stronger than other finishers that it basically pushed traditional ramp decks and control decks out of standard relevance. the last standard deck i really enjoyed was the goggles ramp deck from SOI standard, and that deck literally went from fine to unplayable just due to that one card entering the format.

ciderpress, Monday, 13 March 2017 14:15 (seven years ago) link

The first set of bans was dumb, the second set will be worse. Confidence in wotc is crumbling because it's hard to predict whether your high cost cards will hold value for more than a couple months.

If they want things to improve, they should print more answers, stop having 1 or 2 ridiculously op cards in each set, go to a shorter rotation (they bailed on this much too quickly).

Moodles, Monday, 13 March 2017 14:19 (seven years ago) link

xp thanks, that makes sense.

Roberto Spiralli, Monday, 13 March 2017 14:21 (seven years ago) link

missing reflector mage seems okay to me, that card isn't obviously powerful. in standards where it was surrounded by worse cards, it wouldn't be oppressive.

I think before they sign off on any set they need to have someone be the combo police and go through literally every card in the set, attempting to break it for combo. they didn't know about twin either did they? it is always going to be very hard to predict a standard meta w/ a small group of playtesters so I don't fault them for having problems with that. but overlooking infinite combos means you're not doing your job.

iatee, Monday, 13 March 2017 14:23 (seven years ago) link

what was the issue with Reflector Mage? I don't really play Standard so I'm a bit ignorant there.

I think before they sign off on any set they need to have someone be the combo police and go through literally every card in the set, attempting to break it for combo.

it doesn't even really have to be that complex. Saheeli and Splinter Twin have "infinite combo" written all over them. Ditto with the 4-mana 2/2 that gets +1/+1 for each activated ability, though I don't know if such a combo exists in Standard. not a whole lot else with that sort of potential.

frogbs, Monday, 13 March 2017 14:29 (seven years ago) link

the types of cards that can lead to an infinite combo are very limited and few in number, it can't be that hard to keep tabs on them!

Roberto Spiralli, Monday, 13 March 2017 14:33 (seven years ago) link

emrakul is an interesting case re its development. i don't think the the un-fun-ness jumps of the card but maybe that should've come up in playtesting. probably there is too much of an onus on them to try lots of different things for ubiquity of a single card to really come up as an issue. that's an inherent flaw that ought to be addressed tho.

copter it's tempting to give them a pass because it's a new card type, but pushing a 2cmc card that every deck can play is playing with fire so much.

marvel seems so obliviously terrible for competitive play, i can't believe they gave that tournament-worthy #s

Roberto Spiralli, Monday, 13 March 2017 14:34 (seven years ago) link

and...no bans

Roberto Spiralli, Monday, 13 March 2017 14:38 (seven years ago) link

yea I'm gonna stick my neck out and say making a "take opponent's next turn" card that's pushed is gonna cause a lot of people to quit Standards

frogbs, Monday, 13 March 2017 14:43 (seven years ago) link

Thank goodness. The format is in terrible shape, but continuous bans aren't the way to go.

Moodles, Monday, 13 March 2017 14:52 (seven years ago) link

yeah as it turns out mindslaver is not a fun effect unless it happens very sparingly

ciderpress, Monday, 13 March 2017 14:54 (seven years ago) link

i do think saheeli combo will be gone by the summer PT unless there's some good answers in amonkhet

ciderpress, Monday, 13 March 2017 14:56 (seven years ago) link

standard could really use Banishing Light right now - they made that updated templating of the card as if it was going to become a regular reprint and then just haven't used it again since

ciderpress, Monday, 13 March 2017 14:59 (seven years ago) link

theyve been weirdly reluctant to print answers to planeswalkers specifically (nerfing hero's downfall into ruinous path, despise into harsh scrunity, o ring into stasis snare &c) that it seems reasonable to assume they want pw to be the face of magic and thus v playable and present in standard.

fwiw this is the first standard since rally that ive played extensively and really liked. i think the games are interesting and fun like 70% of the time and theres a lot of depth to sideboard decisions. im really happy to play mardu/4c four out of every five matches in my leagues because theyre generally really good games.

( ^_^) (Lamp), Monday, 13 March 2017 19:24 (seven years ago) link

whether or not this standard is fun, it seems to be one that rewards strong players. whether or not there are pros or a bunch of randos in t8s has always seemed like a telling mark. though part of that is 'strong players just don't play decks that aren't mardu/4c'. everyone in the room playing their fun deck is not actually in the competition

iatee, Monday, 13 March 2017 20:13 (seven years ago) link

i just remembered the card Dampening Pulse exists today - kind of funny vs 4c Saheeli, it neutralizes both the combo and whirler virtuoso and most of the lists don't have a way to remove it other than negate

ciderpress, Monday, 13 March 2017 21:05 (seven years ago) link

this standard has not been the complete worst but another large set without the kaladesh mechanics can only improve things

ciderpress, Monday, 13 March 2017 21:23 (seven years ago) link

MM 2017 online is 6-2-2-2 (4 tix entry - gross) or else phantom for 100pp entry and the usual 150/100/40/10 payout. the set is so loaded that the $$$ lottery is hugely appealing but the value of infinite 2-1 drafts has gotta trump all.

Roberto Spiralli, Wednesday, 15 March 2017 15:20 (seven years ago) link

normally a huge fan of the infinite 2-1 drafts but man have I gotten wrecked w/ the modern cube for some reason

iatee, Wednesday, 15 March 2017 15:28 (seven years ago) link

phantom draft works better for these sets since you dont have to first pick shitty cards like tarmogoyf

ciderpress, Wednesday, 15 March 2017 15:46 (seven years ago) link

i've only done 3 modern cube drafts but i did 3-0 twice. it is much less explosive than the vintage and legacy cubes altho i had a very solid mono green that was maybe only a turn or two slower than a legacy version and of course lacked the early win out of nowhere potential of natural order. i drafted a UB control deck in a seat that seemed very open for it and i ended up with a deck of half premium cards and then half like clunky counters and tier 3 finishers. it was fun tho!

Roberto Spiralli, Wednesday, 15 March 2017 16:18 (seven years ago) link

its fairly close in power to the cube i've been working on building for a while so i'm kind of afraid to play it and find out that i don't like it

ciderpress, Wednesday, 15 March 2017 17:26 (seven years ago) link

i think this cube has a few too many "why is this card here? (it's seems like a dumb inclusion)" rather than "why is this card here? (i am intrigued by the possibilities)". for example, winding constrictor and aethersphere harvester are reallylame inclusions imo, the former totally dependent on an archetype that doesn't come through and the latter not exciting or powerful enough for a card without a theme.

Roberto Spiralli, Wednesday, 15 March 2017 17:43 (seven years ago) link

that the highly simplified key to cube design, i guess i am saying. make ppl ask the latter not the former.

Roberto Spiralli, Wednesday, 15 March 2017 17:44 (seven years ago) link

yeah my favorite cards in that genre are the ones that ask a little bit of you but also enable themselves e.g. thopter spy network or ayli

ciderpress, Wednesday, 15 March 2017 18:23 (seven years ago) link

its harder to convince someone to put something in their cube deck that needs very specific support like winding constrictor

ciderpress, Wednesday, 15 March 2017 18:25 (seven years ago) link

how do you feel about the theros gods? they offer the level 1 payoff of animating them, which doesn't really demand anything extra in cube construction or the draft because cube type cards often lean more mana symbol heavy anyway, and a lot of them have a level 2 of an ability that can be built around.

Roberto Spiralli, Wednesday, 15 March 2017 18:45 (seven years ago) link

purphoros is great, the others i am not as keen on for various reasons

ciderpress, Wednesday, 15 March 2017 18:56 (seven years ago) link

thassa is a good card but most cubes don't really support a permanent-heavy blue deck. the other 3 and the multicolor ones are all kinda weak or boring or both

ciderpress, Wednesday, 15 March 2017 18:59 (seven years ago) link

I play base blue decks that always lose to purphoros

w/ this cube planeswalkers are just a little too good I think. in normal cube planeswalkers are haymakers but not the most powerful thing you can be doing, in this cube they're the top end. dragonlord silumgar feels like the defining card to me.

iatee, Wednesday, 15 March 2017 20:05 (seven years ago) link

that's disappointing - I don't really like how Cube matches turn into battles of planeswalkers. after losing a bunch I made an effort to just blindly draft more of them and I've been doing better ever since.

frogbs, Wednesday, 15 March 2017 20:14 (seven years ago) link

prioritizing planeswalkers already worked really well for me in legacy cube so it makes sense that it'd be even better here where you have (almost) all the same planeswalkers but fewer of the other powerful cards

ciderpress, Wednesday, 15 March 2017 22:22 (seven years ago) link

i think most small-medium cubes have about twice as many planeswalkers as they should. legacy cube is at least a 720 (i think?) so they're stretched more

ciderpress, Wednesday, 15 March 2017 22:23 (seven years ago) link

speaking of planeswalkers, I found this article interesting:

http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/how-to-fix-standard/

I have never loved the card type

iatee, Wednesday, 15 March 2017 23:08 (seven years ago) link

it's my longstanding belief that planeswalkers below 5cmc should not be 'generalists'. Tezzeret the Schemer, Arlinn Kord, Kiora Master of the Depths, Narset Transcendent all feel much more close to the right power level and positioning to me. i like the card type when they're targetted more specifically like that, but they've just been overstepping the bounds that they had previously set ever since they rebooted the storyline as planeswalker superhero comics

ciderpress, Thursday, 16 March 2017 00:24 (seven years ago) link

another planeswalker thought re: chandra - it used to feel really bad to run out planeswalkers like this just to kill a creature and gain 2 life, but spells have fallen so far behind that these minus abilities are equivalent to 3 mana spells rather than 2 mana now, so you're only paying 1 extra mana for the ability to run away with the game on stable boards

ciderpress, Thursday, 16 March 2017 13:04 (seven years ago) link

this is why decks can just jam a bunch of chandras even though the card should be bad from behind and bad in multiples - the opportunity cost relative to non-pw spells that fill that role is so small right now

ciderpress, Thursday, 16 March 2017 13:13 (seven years ago) link

looks like we're back to people mysteriously finding card from the next set in their booster that happens to have a set mechanic on it http://imgur.com/DEtClqY

but this is very strange. seems like one of those mechanics that gets 5 cards and then is done forever

ciderpress, Saturday, 18 March 2017 02:29 (seven years ago) link

(the mechanic is that the bottom half can only be cast from the graveyard - so basically a cross between split cards and flashback)

ciderpress, Saturday, 18 March 2017 02:30 (seven years ago) link

that is one ugly-ass template. is it confirmed to be real?

Vinnie, Saturday, 18 March 2017 04:26 (seven years ago) link

no but photo of physical card + untraceable art essentially always means real

ciderpress, Saturday, 18 March 2017 04:44 (seven years ago) link

i suspect the frame design is so that you can put them sideways in your graveyard and the front half will get covered up but the back half will stick out to the right like a mini-card. very much function over form.

ciderpress, Saturday, 18 March 2017 04:49 (seven years ago) link

Thats cool but ugly as hell

frogbs, Saturday, 18 March 2017 12:40 (seven years ago) link

here's the mtgo uncommon run for modern masters 3: https://pastebin.mozilla.org/8982924

hopefully no mistakes in there, i threw it together pretty quick this time

ciderpress, Thursday, 23 March 2017 00:21 (seven years ago) link


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