G.K. Chesterton's 'Father Brown' vs Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's 'Sherlock Holmes'

In his Letters from Prison, the Italian Marxist theorist Antonio Gramsci made this partisan declaration of his preference:

Father Brown is a Catholic who pokes fun at the mechanical thought processes of the Protestants and the book is basically an apologia of the Roman Church as against the Anglican Church. Sherlock Holmes is the 'Protestant' detective who finds the end of the criminal skein by starting from the outside, relying on science, on experimental method, on induction. Father Brown is the Catholic priest who through the refined psychological experiences offered by confession and by the persistent activity of the fathers' moral casuistry, though not neglecting science and experimentation, but relying especially on deduction and introspection, totally defeats Sherlock Holmes, makes him look like a pretentious little boy, shows up his narrowness and pettiness. Moreover, Chesterton is a great artist while Conan Doyle was a mediocre writer, even though he was knighted for literary merit; thus in Chesterton there is a stylistic gap between the content, the detective story plot, and the form, and therefore a subtle irony with regard to the subject being dealt with, which renders these stories so delicious

On the recommendation of Mark S I bought a complete short stories of Father Brown from amazon for £1.99. It would seem most of the characters from the tv show aren't in it (like Sid and Lady Felicia)

quick journey from the sublime to the ridiculous there

well considering watson is always one step ahead of holmes that's not too far off -- in fact, this could probably be watson's pov as well

has anyone else read the chesterton books?

I've read a bit of Chesterton, but not read any Father Brown. He was definitely a bright man, but a facile thinker and a bit of a hack, imo.

Through all of Chesterton's work, all his sophistic and reactionary essays, on every page of The Man Who Was Thursday, and in every Father Brown mystery, three words ring loud and clear: DO YOU SEE?

Here is a classic Father Brown
mystery (though far less contrived than a lot of them): FB asks three people including a policeman to watch for anyone entering the house of a potential victim. Potential victim is indeed victimised to death, witnesses swear blind that no-one entered the house. But the killer did enter, through the front door,  disguised as a postman so the witnesses (policeman included) didn't think he counted. DO YOU SEE?

it's called the invisible man so "do you see" is the correct question

I've read a little Father Brown, I liked the idea of having him working parallel to an atheist policeman, and was kinda disappointed when GK gave up on the idea of writing a semi-positive atheist character and had him cut some dude's head off in the third story. "The Sign of the Broken Sword" is a cool story.

I've read a dozen or so Father Brown stories and always found them vaguely unsatisfying on a puzzle-solving level.

chesterton *is* a bit weird

Conan Doyle every time, but I do love Father Brown as well. The stories are nothing like the (IMO terrible) BBC TV series, which made Father Brown simpering and undignified. In the stories he's mild mannered but iron willed, a bit like Miss Marple. The puzzles are ingenious but don't have the depth or richness of the Holmes stories.

Thursday is a great book for teenagers, specifically *because* of its do-you-see-ness. Also some nice sentences and jokes.

I like the Father Brown stories, but Chesterton's greatest accomplishment is to inspire that PG Wodehouse line about a noise like "GK Chesterton falling on a sheet of tin”

(Also - OTM re: "iron willed-ness", which reminds me how surprisingly badass Marple gets at the very end of Pocketful of Rye)

some nice sentences

no bad sentences

Also, at the risk of outing myself as one of Hitchcock's plausibles, I find it hard to buy FB as a man of great psychological insight when everyone behaves completely ludicrously and unpredictably. E.g. the witnesses mentioned above, or the wannabe professional juggler (and conjuror and ventriloquist) who has a major stage show opening within a week despite not being able to juggle three glasses.

(I have to admit the puzzle in that story, where everyone is looking for a Mr Glass because the juggler is heard saying 'missed a glass' when practising, is inventive. Yet nonsense.)

no spoilers for odysseus dude!

that was the first one i ever read, my dad bought my the book as a present when i was ill in bed on holiday

Book arrived today but I'm ill in bed after being sick down the town centre this morning when I was with my dad for his opticians appointment.

Read the first two stories today while on my sick bed.

Ive read about 6 now including the one with the postman entering the house to kill as mentioned upthread. Nobody said "do you see"

i will write something up (inc.a response to ledge) when you're got a bit further

its certainly very different to the tv show (which is set in the early 50s) not to mention Flambeau is quite different

Fir people who wAnt cheap but nice editions if Fr Brown, came across this yesterday: https://www.thebookpeople.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/qs_product_tbp?productId=677218&storeId=10001&catalogId=10051&langId=100&searchTerm=father+brown

Havent ordered from them myself, but that is super cheap

This is a silly question if you wanted to talk about fr brown you should say so but this is holmes and anyone saying not is a liar and im gonna stamp on their sandwiches

Not sure mark will like that

i already ate my sandwiches, deems can do what he likes

he didn't say he would only stamp on uneaten sandwiches

It's said now and i wont unsay it

Nobody said "do you see"

True but I just checked and FB says "have you noticed" and "you have not noticed" to much the same effect.

now I feel as guilty as him in using a spurious case to try and prove my point.

Still unwell and after throwing up yesterday morning I went to the docs and she thinks I have gastroenteritis so not really been able to concentrate enouh to read the past week but last night I finished 'The Sins of Prince Saradine (I worked out the ending due to a sorta similar feel on the tv series although the actual plot was very different from the tv ep)

geez get well soon KD, i wz a bit worried not hearing :(