which "conservative" fraud is a bigger deal?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/17/russia-1917-revolutions-legacy-lenin-putin

2000 election resulted in huge (and now permanent) tax cuts for the rich, Afghan War & Iraq War which cost us a trillion dollars and turned Iraq from an oppressive authoritarian regime to a failed state (now filled with ISIS fighters). Also Bush normalized use of torture by USA government. (nb: I won't blame the PATRIOT Act on Bush.) Enormous failures at the SEC brought on the worst financial crisis since 1929.

jury is out on 2016. mr. trump seems to be very fast out of the gates, but the day is young and the poll gives him another eight months to make up ground. I guess I will wait.

well the 2000 election was an actual fraud so that one

(obv all u.s. elections are frauds due to the amount of voter suppression and gerrymandering but gore actually won the votes to win the electoral college and was cheated)

yeah there's no contest here, Trump didn't steal the election, and yeah the jury's still out, but I doubt he'll be able to cripple the country as much as W's admin did.

Compelled to vote 2000 because I'm sick of all the "Bush doesn't seem so bad now" shit that i head getting tossed around lately. Which doesn't really answer the question, I know, but...

reagan's 1980 october surprise prob even more consequential and disastrous than either of these

Kinda reassuring thread already :/

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

trump has a worse moral compass in the abstract. i doubt he will be able to do as much catastrophic damage as GWB.

trump's election was more like a fraud though. Trump made promises he is not going to keep and consciously manipulated his base, whereas GWB was what you see is what you get.

hey uh remember those wmds? gwb was cool with outright deception too

If we count making empty promises and manipulating the base as "fraud" there's very few elections anywhere that could avoid the label.

Trump didn't steal the election

He probably did in Wisconsin.

hey uh remember those wmds? gwb was cool with outright deception too

If we count making empty promises and manipulating the base as "fraud" there's very few elections anywhere that could avoid the label.

Trump is a pretty big fraud, just being himself, in the sense that whatever he thinks you'll be most impressed by, he tries to imitate. But most of his imitations reflect a very crude understanding of what that impressive sort of person would actually say, do, or think, e.g. to convince you he's a smart person he just brags about how smart he is. There is no core to him, other than a seething mass of id.

But the election of 2016 was mostly 'fraudulent' to the extent that our presidential electoral system allows a man with 3 million fewer votes to win the election. The worst part about the Russian interference isn't that it was some new thing. But they proved once again that spreading damaging lies and rumors on a massive scale is a winning strategy, and now it will get even worse, even without Russian assistance.

related/reference: the most important election of your lifetime - identify it please (US postwar edition)

oh i already posted, otm to myself upthread

trump has a worse moral compass in the abstract.

hard to say which man's moral compass is easier to just reach in and move with your fingers; putin would prob testify it's gwb

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.