2008 USP(G)ET pt. II: counting the days to 2012 primary thread 1

(What's funny about that gif is Biden's expression, but it's pretty juvenile, really... even though I lolled...)

Anyway, someone help me out here. I was watching Meet The Press earlier, and in one segment they mentioned the debate question that asked the candidates whether, in the light of the economic downturn, they would have to "prioritize" aspects of their plans if elected president. Now I watched the debate itself at the time, but here also showed a clip of McCain saying he could work on them simultaneously whereas the clip of Obama showed him clearly prioritizing, even going as far as to enumerate them, bullet-point fashion (1. energy, 2. health care 3. education, I think). Cut to Tom Brokaw and he seems to imply that neither candidate answered the question, and the Democrat in the studio didn't even protest, while the Republican just said McCain was telling the truth and that of course he could work on all of them at once, etc.

Now, did I miss something? This wasn't FOX News, this was a (as far as I know) fairly respected political show and yet it seemed that again and again, in some kind of excruciating attempt to appear neutral and somehow objective, to bend over backwards in not highlighting the clear differences between the candidates, and indeed the campaigns (at another point, it again implied that the Obama campaign was equally responsible for the hateful rhetoric even though it clearly hasn't engaged in race-baiting or ugly smears). I mean, isn't the right complaining about the gutlessness of the MSM at the moment? Between giving the Palins a pass on their ties to some kind of Alaskan secessionist group and the above type of faux nonpartisanship, it seems to me that the MSM is pretty much at the same lapdog level it was while the Neocons ran amok in Washington. With the exception of Katie Couric, maybe? ;)

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xposts Not to sound all Chomskyish, but until the media ceases to be a kajillion-dollar industry, in which a presidential race is a goldmine of a news event, it's hard to expect anything but 'encouragement' of a close race.

which is to say, lostandfound, that you're otm.

thy name is iwelumo xxpost

yet obama is the one being criticized for proposing more spending and higher taxes (ahem for the rich) in spite of the economic meltdown

Sarah Palin is disgusting and wicked, but I don't think that clip that people keep repeating is very funny. It's vulgar and unpleasant at best, and I want to say it lives off or derives from misogyny, but I can't be bothered trying to defend that claim, assuming anyone can be bothered to attack it.

Good job you didn't say that then.

we know

xpost

xposts

Yeah, I guess that I'd noticed a few exceptions earlier in the race in which some media people actually abandoned this fake balance and went after someone for their hypocrisy. I remember Chris Matthews a couple of months ago just slicing up some Republican hack who tried to stay on talking points but wasn't allowed to get away with it and was basically humiliated. Oh, and there was Campbell Brown going after Tucker Bounds that cause McCain to cancel Larry King! So there were a couple of signs, but overall they've reverted to type and it's sad to see (not to mention intensely frustrating and the cause of much screaming at TV screens).

Yeah, G00blar, every time a candidate seems to get ahead, there is a tendency for the media to go after that person and rein them in. I wonder if it's just kneejerk nowadays or whether they're overtly instructed to do this, for the ratings, etc.

It's not just religiosity that marks out the American right wing, it's the ultranationalism (which, like religion, the nominal left must at least pay lip service to). I can't count the number of eye rolls the phrase "The American Dream" provokes in Europe (setting aside the constant refrains from both Obama and McCain about how the US is the greatest country on Earth, or how its workers are the greatest workers on Earth). Phrases like that generally don't find thir way into European speeches. Which I'm pretty comfortable attributing to a handful of fairly unpleasant episodes in living memory involving certain European countries claiming to be the best nation on Earth. In high school I was in a band, and our drummer was a German guy who lived in Oak Ridge. His dad was a scientist who'd come to work on god knows what. He told me that he got freaked out on his first day of school, like really got completely thrown, when he saw the American flag right in the parking lot in front of the school. "You would never EVER see that in Germany! At a SCHOOL???"

i would suggest that while fox news is pretty culpable in going after only one side, the others definitely are doing their best to make this race seem a lot more interesting than it is. sometimes i watch coverage and i think, "jesus, mccain could totally win this thing" and while maybe it's technically true, it's probably not quite as likely as the cable news channels are making it out to be.

xpost to Tracer

We're almost as bad here in Canada, although like a hypocrite I don't mind it. Perhaps because there's nothing offensive about a red maple leaf(?). Although, being from England originally and remembering the silver jubilees and royal weddings and Falklands flag-waving orgies I was grossed out completely by the Brit equivalent.

Good point omar. I hope you're right.

(Funny how the ratcheting tension in the U.S election is forcing me to delurk here, even as we go to the polls ourselves on Tuesday.)

I think that the fact the United States didn't exterminate minorities in Death Camps probably contributes to the lack of humiliation over overt signs of Nationalism. (Which isn't to say that the US hasn't done awful things out of Nationalism fervor, but nothing as aesthetically disturbing as fascist regimes in Germany, Spain, Italy, etc.)

Which isn't to excuse USA nationalism, just to suggest that the reduction of overt nationalism is generally a response to horror that came about because of it. It doesn't go away spontaneously.

Lostandfound I feel that jubilee stuff is something less than patriotism or nationalism though and more of just like, I dunno.. twee nostalgia?

Regarding what you saw on TV, I think part of the problem is that 95% - or higher - of "political news" on television is not news but some blowhard giving his opinion. Yet said blowhard imagines he or she is an actual journalist, and so imagines that he or she must be fair and impartial. In his or her opinion of whether or not one candidate is a lying, evasive phony or not. It's ridiculous.

Hand xpost: I agree - and that this nationalism is somewhat across the board in US political discourse, not just on the Right. And this is true of religiosity too, whatever one or two ill-mannered or dumb people may think.

btw I didn't say earlier that religiosity was the main thing about the Right, but that they were not very conservative but very dangerously radical and militant.

L&F: I have just watched the crap film THIS IS ENGLAND which makes a big deal about the Falklands, and it made me think among other things how despite all the jingoistic BS around that event, the country was not in fact marked by a nationalistic frenzy. A couple of events like that do not change the general contrast with the US ... and come to think of it ... is US politics a lot more stupidly and cravenly religiose and fearfully nationalistic now than it was 40 years ago, or is that just illusion or ignorance re. the past?

Mordy, that's exactly what I was saying. But I don't think that getting past nationalism requires either spontaneous luck or causing a Holocaust oneself. I mean, you might think that playing a big part in defeating the worst nationalist regime of the 20th century, liberating other nations from their death grip, and confronting the horrors of concentration camps might be just a tiny wee prod towards toning down the whole "we are the best country ever" rhetoric.

pinefox I think it was actually probably worse in the past, in that regard.

(xpost)

Yes, I probably shouldn't have conflated the royal wedding/jubilee stuff with the Falklands conflict -- you're right about it being twee nostalgia. I don't know, my memory of the latter was quite ugly but I was virulently anti-Thatcher, which is largely why I'm now a Canadian. Perhaps there was a nostalgia element to that, too -- a hankering for when "Britain ruled the waves", etc. I just remember a lot of talk about killing Argies and flags being waved while navy ships set sail, etc. That said, I do have lots of fond memories of England and it's not a black-and-white thing for me... although it's interesting that I have less compunction against displaying Canadian patriotism than I ever did about the British equivalent. But this is becoming a derail now.

On the contrary. I think all those things only encourage the rhetoric. "Their nationalism lead to X, ours led to Y. Clearly our nationalism is better." It's a firm part of American exceptionalism. Other countries don't have the same moral right to nationalism that we do. (And I don't think it's a religious exceptionalism for that reason. I think it's a moral one.)

XP

Canadan patriotism = cheering at hockey games?

Kathleen Hall Jamieson is pretty smart, huh?
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/10102008/watch2.html

Canadan patriotism = cheering at hockey games?

Yes, plus cheap pancake breakfasts down at the local park on July 1st.

Plus:

hey you guys this is the primary thread

http://www.chasingthefrog.com/reelfaces/leagueoftheirown/hanks.jpgthere's no patriotism in the primary thread!

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3151/2922393167_6f8a0611b5.jpg

this meme is not funny

THIS meme on the other hand...

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btw mccain vowed to "whip his you-know-what" in the upcoming debate fyi

pussy?

he also said the "gloves were coming off" for the last one

yeah he's just saying whatever he has to so that the mob he's fomented won't kill him on the spot

lol @ pollsters being like "Obama's lead has narrowed to 8 points!!!"

up to 94% at 538

SNL's Obama is soooo bad, although Hammond's McCain is otm. I caught a moment of Mad TV last night and their Obama is surprisingly excellent!

I say surprisingly excellent because I usually find Mad TV to be about as funny as a Holocaust documentary.

nah fred armisen's obama is pretty good his voice just isnt low enough

armisen has the stop and start cadences down.

yeah, for real, hes just hard to believe cause the timbre of his voice is so difft

The guy who does mccain on SNL plays him exactly the same way he played Gore

McCain is really threatening to whip Obama!? O_o

another reason to look forward to the obama administration is that democratic and liberally-inclined media outlets may finally become so overwhelmed in the hurricane of terms-and-phrases-that-could-be-decoded-for-possible-bigotry-gotchas that it becomes passe, and we can all move on from this insipid era of paying attention to everything white crypto-racists have to say, because omg ppl are saying these things, in my country. it's fucking schrodinger's cat with some of this garbage. If a bigot says nigger in a trailer park, and one blogger hears him, did it affect the national energy policy?

Should not have used the "white" modifier in that post, in hindsight

^ blah blah blah N-word blah blah blah ^

;)

I see that talking about race is like tossing around a grenade with the pin out!

surprise?