2008 Primaries Thread

Plenty of evidence. Rasmussen: 'The reality is that public opinion concerning Hillary Clinton is much more firmly established than it is for any other candidate.' That opinion is far more negative than for any other remaining Presidential candidate, as 47% will vote against her. By contrast, only 33% say they'll definitely vote against McCain.

More later.

Much more to say on these, and I suppose you can find what you want in them. But to suggest that there's no evidence of strong, committed opposition to HRC is ignoring reality, not challenging talking-points.

thanks, daniel. i probably wouldn't have gotten to digging that up until later.

as i tried to point out upthread, the big difference between hart and obama is that hart was running on a shoestring and obama has $$$ like mad, lol internet.

and on another thread, i said this:

it's simplistic but it has a ring of truth: hillary's sell is nuts-n-bolts and obama's is about something a little more metaphysical than that, no? can we have broad agreement on that at least.

not to bring up REAGAN again, but in electoral terms the metaphysicians have thumped the mechanics pretty handily.

(this is getting a little o/t but) there is plenty of hopes-and-dreams stuff attached to HRC's candidacy, and i don't have much doubt about obama's ability -- relative to HRC's -- to engage in 'hard work' or 'trench warfare' to enact policy. the question in my mind is, how do you make the sale, to get in the door, to do the work in the first place?

-- gff, Tuesday, February 12, 2008 12:15 PM

again, talking about unity and hope and common purpose is a GREAT way to get, surprise!, highly contested and partisan goals put through. i don't see a contradiction at all.

lots of xps

...lol regnery

the Hillary Hatred is as baffling to me as conservative McCain hatred.

conservatives hate their mothers

It's totally possible for me to envision Obama approaching governance like Reagan and his troika did in Reagan's first six months of office, during which they managed to get their economic package with a few votes from Democrats -- due largely to RR's great personal charm and not giving a shit about talking to someone on the other side.

for all the talk of her so-called managerial acumen, she's run a pretty poor campaign for someone who was the prohibitive favorite, yeah?

Hey, I'm as worried about Hillary as the nominee as the next guy, but this is superfluous. It's fucking hard, and strange, and random, to run a presidential campaign--even with Bill's experience with nat'l campaigns, anyone that thought she would 'know how to do it' and therefore have it easy is pretty much an idiot.

Does anyone believe that having whatever skills it takes to win your party's nomination have much relation to the skills it takes to be a president?

ok, healthcare:

hillary needs to require the mandate because, besides being a good populist-sounding talking point, it would give her greater bangaining strength with insurance companies and health care providers. it seems probable to me that these negotiations would be piloted by lobbies who would guarantee their clients' co-operation in exchange for de-regulation or tax-breaks for the insurance and / or health care industries.

am i on the right track so far? y/n? i just want to drill down on this issue because everyone takes for granted that universal health care would be a nearly prohibitive measure to actually enact.

Does anyone believe that having whatever skills it takes to win your party's nomination have much relation to the skills it takes to be a president?

Bill Clinton to thread!

anyone that thought she would 'know how to do it' and therefore have it easy is pretty much an idiot.

so... Bill and Hillary are both idiots?

'it' being 'win the national campaign'

yes I know - they've both repeatedly trumpeted how she's been "vetted" and has the "best set of skills" to fight the Republican attack machine etc

Guys can we have a new primaries thread since this one is retardo long?

I'd say go for it.

agreed

Do the honors, HI DERE

After the GE, tho, we should fuse them all together to make one giant thread.

(j/k)

call it the Denver Death March

noooo they steelin my retardo long thread

I was really hoping for this to break the 10K barrier.

2008 Primaries Thread 2: THE QUICKENING