i don’t really have any thoughts on her new book beyond that it will have to be remarkable to overcome such a hackneyed premise
those excerpts from her previous book that djp mentioned are jaw-dropping tho. not in a good way
― mookieproof, Monday, 7 March 2022 14:28 (two years ago) link
wow
― Daniel_Rf, Monday, 7 March 2022 14:29 (two years ago) link
oh I see, this is one of those "I had a neural net system write a novel" things
― i read to 69 position (Neanderthal), Monday, 7 March 2022 14:36 (two years ago) link
oh, i guess this was the premise
In the ruins of a future America, fifteen-year-old Ice Cream Star and her nomadic tribe live off of the detritus of a crumbled civilization. Theirs is a world of children; before reaching the age of twenty, they all die of a mysterious disease they call Posies—a plague that has killed for generations. There is no medicine, no treatment; only the mysterious rumor of a cure.When her brother begins showing signs of the disease, Ice Cream Star sets off on a bold journey to find this cure. Led by a stranger, a captured prisoner named Pasha who becomes her devoted protector and friend, Ice Cream Star plunges into the unknown, risking her freedom and ultimately her life. Traveling hundreds of miles across treacherous, unfamiliar territory, she will experience love, heartbreak, cruelty, terror, and betrayal, fighting with her whole heart and soul to protect the only world she has ever known.
When her brother begins showing signs of the disease, Ice Cream Star sets off on a bold journey to find this cure. Led by a stranger, a captured prisoner named Pasha who becomes her devoted protector and friend, Ice Cream Star plunges into the unknown, risking her freedom and ultimately her life. Traveling hundreds of miles across treacherous, unfamiliar territory, she will experience love, heartbreak, cruelty, terror, and betrayal, fighting with her whole heart and soul to protect the only world she has ever known.
― i read to 69 position (Neanderthal), Monday, 7 March 2022 14:40 (two years ago) link
genuinely stunning to imagine writing even one of the sentences in the bit mookie posted
― rob, Monday, 7 March 2022 14:59 (two years ago) link
"never had no tato patch nor cornfield" keeps sending me into horrified giggles
― castanuts (DJP), Monday, 7 March 2022 15:03 (two years ago) link
like, this patois kept the "nor" construction but got rid of the word "potato"
this made sense to someone
― castanuts (DJP), Monday, 7 March 2022 15:04 (two years ago) link
And mind you, they didn't keep the existing word "tater"; they went for "tato"
― castanuts (DJP), Monday, 7 March 2022 15:05 (two years ago) link
So yeah, assuming the best of intentions behind all of this, the previous execution is so blindingly bad that I am not going to assume much of the newest effort
― castanuts (DJP), Monday, 7 March 2022 15:06 (two years ago) link
how do these weird YA novels I've never heard of (like The Country of Ice Cream Star) has thousands of ratings and reviews on Goodreads?
― Chappies banging dustbin lids together (President Keyes), Monday, 7 March 2022 15:15 (two years ago) link
like 2635 white women who look like your supervisor rated this book and it has an average of 3.62.
― Chappies banging dustbin lids together (President Keyes), Monday, 7 March 2022 15:18 (two years ago) link
goodreads is actually just a front for Big YA
― STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Monday, 7 March 2022 15:27 (two years ago) link
the water is wideI cannot cross o'erI never hadno tato patch
― i read to 69 position (Neanderthal), Monday, 7 March 2022 15:28 (two years ago) link
omfg
https://www.npr.org/2015/02/16/384112222/ten-hearts-for-the-country-and-language-of-ice-cream-star
― castanuts (DJP), Monday, 7 March 2022 15:31 (two years ago) link
Saw that.
― Mardi Gras Mambo Sun (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 7 March 2022 15:31 (two years ago) link
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/29/books/review/the-country-of-ice-cream-star-by-sandra-newman.html
This is a positive review but it still contains this:
The entire book is written in what we would think of as a patois, but is apparently the standard dialect of the future. At times, this can sound a bit like Jar Jar Binks narrating an audiobook of Cormac McCarthy’s “The Road”
― castanuts (DJP), Monday, 7 March 2022 15:34 (two years ago) link
If you think of dialects as broken versions of "correct" English it's easy to write in dialect, because you don't have to follow rules you don't believe exist.
― Jaime Pressly and America (f. hazel), Monday, 7 March 2022 15:35 (two years ago) link
Has this been mentioned yet?https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2360064.How_Not_to_Write_a_Novel
― Mardi Gras Mambo Sun (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 7 March 2022 15:36 (two years ago) link
― Mardi Gras Mambo Sun (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 7 March 2022 15:38 (two years ago) link
don’t think this author is YA, or at least is not primarily marketed as such
― mookieproof, Monday, 7 March 2022 15:39 (two years ago) link
Seems like she should be but yes, I wouldn’t but my sweet tato on it.
― Mardi Gras Mambo Sun (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 7 March 2022 15:42 (two years ago) link
YA in this case stands for Yikes, Always
― castanuts (DJP), Monday, 7 March 2022 15:43 (two years ago) link
Weird that none of these reviews mention Riddley Walker, which seems like the obvious model for something like this.
― Lily Dale, Monday, 7 March 2022 15:44 (two years ago) link
I would love it if How Not to Write A Novel was The Country of Ice Cream Star with a different title
― castanuts (DJP), Monday, 7 March 2022 15:45 (two years ago) link
Was thinking the same thing.
― Mardi Gras Mambo Sun (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 7 March 2022 15:52 (two years ago) link
Riddley Walker the most obvious predecessor yeah. More recently there was also The Wake, by Paul KIngsnorth.
― Mardi Gras Mambo Sun (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 7 March 2022 15:53 (two years ago) link
No Country for Old Ice Cream
― i read to 69 position (Neanderthal), Monday, 7 March 2022 15:53 (two years ago) link
The Wake was a stunning achievement which I will always stan tbh
― imago, Monday, 7 March 2022 15:53 (two years ago) link
Let's not ignore Mason & Dixon in the 'doing it right' column too
― imago, Monday, 7 March 2022 15:54 (two years ago) link
the fact that this terrible book was apparently intended for adult readers is somehow more upsetting to me than if it were just another shitty YA novel
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Monday, 7 March 2022 15:54 (two years ago) link
half expect there to be a drink called "Milk Minus" in it
― i read to 69 position (Neanderthal), Monday, 7 March 2022 15:55 (two years ago) link
I call for all of these books where a certain percentage of the population dies/disappears (not because of a nuclear war) to be called Thanos Snap Lit.
― Chappies banging dustbin lids together (President Keyes), Monday, 7 March 2022 15:59 (two years ago) link
many xps A Nest Of Fire And Antsis how I read that
― kinder, Monday, 7 March 2022 16:02 (two years ago) link
"never had no tato patch nor cornfield" keeps sending me into horrified giggles― castanuts (DJP), Monday, March 7, 2022 10:03 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglinkAnd mind you, they didn't keep the existing word "tater"; they went for "tato"― castanuts (DJP), Monday, March 7, 2022 10:05 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink
― castanuts (DJP), Monday, March 7, 2022 10:03 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink
― castanuts (DJP), Monday, March 7, 2022 10:05 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink
This was nearly, "I don't know nothin' 'bout birthin' no 'taters."
― removing bookmarks never felt so good (PBKR), Monday, 7 March 2022 16:15 (two years ago) link
oh no I read too many excerpts and now I actually want to know if there's a stated reason there's so much French in it: is the population descended from francophone immigrants?
― rob, Monday, 7 March 2022 16:52 (two years ago) link
let's not pull Haitians into this mess
― castanuts (DJP), Monday, 7 March 2022 16:57 (two years ago) link
that was my best guess, and you're right: I probably don't want to know the answer
― rob, Monday, 7 March 2022 17:00 (two years ago) link
Roos all got one clothing, same as Beef-a-roni do.
― peace, man, Monday, 7 March 2022 17:08 (two years ago) link
I'm a little annoyed by the reflexive criticism of the new book, but yeah, I also saw excerpts of The Country of Ice Cream Star and thought "yikes."
Also this interview:
How did you go about creating the voice of Ice Cream Star (and the groups who live in Massa) and how did you sustain that for an entire novel?I didn’t initially intend to write the book in an invented patois. But when I started to write the book, it had to be set in a future world, and I wanted to the voice to feel absolutely real. I’ve always been the kind of writer (and reader) who needs a story to be completely convincing. When I was writing the book in standard English, I just couldn’t believe in it. A hundred years had passed. Obviously English would have changed in that time, especially if there were no schools and no media, and the language was only being spoken by children and teenagers.So from there, the language ended up being informed by African-American English. I’ve given a lot of reasons for this, but the bottom line is just that it’s my favorite English, and probably objectively the best English going. It also gave me not only a model for innovation in the vocabulary, but a starting point for innovation in the grammar. And finally, most people are familiar with it to some degree, so readers have a starting point for understanding it.Once I had the flavor of African-American speech in the language (and don’t get me wrong – it’s not African-American Vernacular English as spoken now, but it’s obviously strongly influenced by it) it felt like the characters should be black. Or, put another way, why shouldn’t they be black? I mean, it became a choice to make them anything but black.And then, as soon as I thought of them as black, the book came to life in the most incredible and inexplicable way. It began to write itself. I don’t know why this is, since the book isn’t about race – or it’s only very occasionally, tangentially, about race. It just suddenly felt like a real world I had discovered, rather than an imaginary world I was inventing. Everything fell into place.I was very aware that this was a controversial thing to do, as a white person. I thought about it a lot, and questioned my position, and etc But after a while, I couldn’t really help writing the book that way because it worked. Also, the characters very quickly became real people to me, who demanded to be written about as they were.Sustaining it for an entire novel was time-consuming, but incredibly rewarding. In fact, I now find it a little sad writing in normal English, because it’s just not possible to be as inventive. And, just as with any foreign language, there are words in Sengle English for which there are no exact equivalents in contemporary English, so I sometimes end up feeling like my normal speech is an inadequate translation.
I didn’t initially intend to write the book in an invented patois. But when I started to write the book, it had to be set in a future world, and I wanted to the voice to feel absolutely real. I’ve always been the kind of writer (and reader) who needs a story to be completely convincing. When I was writing the book in standard English, I just couldn’t believe in it. A hundred years had passed. Obviously English would have changed in that time, especially if there were no schools and no media, and the language was only being spoken by children and teenagers.
So from there, the language ended up being informed by African-American English. I’ve given a lot of reasons for this, but the bottom line is just that it’s my favorite English, and probably objectively the best English going. It also gave me not only a model for innovation in the vocabulary, but a starting point for innovation in the grammar. And finally, most people are familiar with it to some degree, so readers have a starting point for understanding it.
Once I had the flavor of African-American speech in the language (and don’t get me wrong – it’s not African-American Vernacular English as spoken now, but it’s obviously strongly influenced by it) it felt like the characters should be black. Or, put another way, why shouldn’t they be black? I mean, it became a choice to make them anything but black.
And then, as soon as I thought of them as black, the book came to life in the most incredible and inexplicable way. It began to write itself. I don’t know why this is, since the book isn’t about race – or it’s only very occasionally, tangentially, about race. It just suddenly felt like a real world I had discovered, rather than an imaginary world I was inventing. Everything fell into place.
I was very aware that this was a controversial thing to do, as a white person. I thought about it a lot, and questioned my position, and etc But after a while, I couldn’t really help writing the book that way because it worked. Also, the characters very quickly became real people to me, who demanded to be written about as they were.
Sustaining it for an entire novel was time-consuming, but incredibly rewarding. In fact, I now find it a little sad writing in normal English, because it’s just not possible to be as inventive. And, just as with any foreign language, there are words in Sengle English for which there are no exact equivalents in contemporary English, so I sometimes end up feeling like my normal speech is an inadequate translation.
― jaymc, Monday, 7 March 2022 17:09 (two years ago) link
every sentence a red flag
― STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Monday, 7 March 2022 17:10 (two years ago) link
I saw that interview but couldn't even bring myself to read it until you excerpted it.
― Mardi Gras Mambo Sun (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 7 March 2022 17:12 (two years ago) link
I think you mean "erry senny a flag rouge", Brad
― castanuts (DJP), Monday, 7 March 2022 17:12 (two years ago) link
it's my favorite English
― towards fungal computer (harbl), Monday, 7 March 2022 17:14 (two years ago) link
http://m.quickmeme.com/img/fc/fcc58d555bfd886e4aafd58cd0c4f17e40db24e87f955d8cc4b70a658d56dcb9.jpg
― terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 7 March 2022 17:15 (two years ago) link
....
― i read to 69 position (Neanderthal), Monday, 7 March 2022 17:17 (two years ago) link
In fact, I now find it a little sad writing in normal English, because it’s just not possible to be as inventive.
A writer said this.
― Jaime Pressly and America (f. hazel), Monday, 7 March 2022 17:18 (two years ago) link
composing the sentence "our people be a tarry night sort" and then congratulating yourself on writing a book that "isn't about race" is a breathtaking achievement, we need a Newman Prize for this sort of thing
― rob, Monday, 7 March 2022 17:20 (two years ago) link
"writing in English sucks because then my racism will be harder to hide"
― i read to 69 position (Neanderthal), Monday, 7 March 2022 17:24 (two years ago) link
*normal English (who says "normal English" btw)
okay i am legit dying here at "i don't know nothin bout birthin no taters"
― Tracer Hand, Monday, 7 March 2022 17:25 (two years ago) link