Is this anti-semitism?

Here are the Tory plans for Roma communities and I guarantee that this is worse than anything a Corbyn PM will do to any minority.

The Tory manifesto contains a clause that they're going to confiscate the property and vehicles of Roma and traveller communities. pic.twitter.com/eQbJvFWkLZ

— libcom dot org (@libcomorg) November 26, 2019

xps

And you show up to embarrass him by lending your support. What fun. (xps)

Can we get a moratorium on whataboutism/whataboutery for a few weeks just to see what happens?

― pomenitul, 26. november 2019 18:18 (one minute ago) bookmarkflaglink

Here are the Tory plans for Roma communities and I guarantee that this is worse than anything a Corbyn PM will do to any minority.

― xyzzzz__, 26. november 2019 18:18 (one minute ago) bookmarkflaglink

This 1-2 is objectively hilarious.

xxp there is only so much hypocrisy on the subject of the media in this country suddenly caring about racism that people can take. The two ideas are not in conflict (that one can acknowledge and understand the worries of UK Jewish people re Corbyn) but also point out that the fucking Tory party is consorting with fascists and has deported black people yo their death with zero consequences.

The usual UK suspects all showing up to prove Mordy right. Good work.

xp I too find state racism against groups I don’t consider important hilarious

not a day goes by etc xp

Objectively hilarious, even.

Can we all agree that nobody's denying that the Tory party are a bunch of evil, bigoted fuckheads and that their brand of racism is infinitely bigger and badder than any Labour racism, perceived or real.

I'm still not sure how comfortable I am with the idea that 'Yeah Labour probably a little bit racist but it's okay because the environment/austerity/Tories are worse'. If that's what people are going to jump to every time, it's kind of ignoring the issue, and that's part of the problem in the first place: Not the fact that there is racism in the Labour party, but that people are so quick to wash their hands of it

does the SNP run candidates in England, they seem like a good choice

I too find state racism against groups I don’t consider important hilarious

― gyac, 26. november 2019 18:23 (eleven seconds ago) bookmarkflaglink

Your self-righteousness seriously makes me want to puke. Jumping into the anti-semitism thread to shout about discrimination of Roma instead is shitty behaviour, end of story. It's using discrimination of one minority to silence another. Then to become such a prick when it's pointed out is unbelievable.

Not the fact that there is racism in the Labour party, but that people are so quick to wash their hands of it

Especially on ilxor dot com where it's safe to assume that no one in a million years would even so much as think of voting tory.

Mate, you’re using a thread about antisemitism to have a pop at people from other threads you don’t like. And yeah, it is very much on topic because it illustrates a point that I and others have made: that the Tories indicating their intentions to strip Romany people of their property went completely unremarked because they aren’t held to any standards.

there are ppl who claim antisemitism in the LAbour party isn't a real thing but I don't recall any ILXors being among them

really? i think some of those ppl are itt right now!

Fred, any student of C20 history knows that Roma were persecuted at the same time as Jewish people, by the same people who persecuted them. Their fates are never not connected, especially when you consider Tories went out of their way to state allyship with that raging antisemite Orban, who disparages both.

there are ppl who claim antisemitism in the LAbour party isn't a real thing but I don't recall any ILXors being among them

― Simon H., Tuesday, November 26, 2019 6:30 PM (fifteen seconds ago) bookmarkflaglink

Otm.

Also, Fred, come on man. Pointing out how the Tories want to strip a group of people of their rights and assets - a people who suffered the same fate during WW2 - is key here. This is the Tory party the chief rabbi supports. See the irony there? It was pointed out rightfully, but if you still can't see it, I don't know what to tell you.

(xxp) A mistake you might make if you don't read UK politics threads, not that I would expect you to.

Disputing whether there is/isn't AS (or to what degree) seem stuck in a groundhog day scenario, on this thread and elsewhere. If any agreement or move towards consensus is possible, it seems a better approach is to look at what steps Labour should be taking (as it seems all here agree at least that some improvements can be made?)

anvil otm as per

A lot institutions are keen to keep the discourse stuck in the groundhog day scenario though, that's a big part of the problem.

& otm again

I mean more so in the context of the people here than *out there*. Institutions may or may not be invested in such, it doesn't mean we have to be

That's obviously true.

otming imagos otming

i'd be curious to hear what you uk folk think could be done. i mean obviously not protecting or giving a platform to holocaust deniers or other obvious bigots would be an easy first step.

Mordy likes no-platforming now, astonishing

(just joshin Mordy it's chill)

I’d like the party to first institute the suggested segalov reforms
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/21/labour-antisemitism-overhaul-policy-discipline-public

We can talk about Ilhan Omar, Ephraim Mirvis, Tories, Austerity, Islamophobia, Boris, Roma, Miliband, Trump and any number of things. But none of these things are saying what we think Labour should actually do. There's almost no mention of that here, from anyone

The Roma example was responding to this question lol Fred keep up:

"mordy, if corbyn is elected pm, how do you expect his antisemitism will impact life for jewish people in the uk during his premiership?"

As I said if you are not white/male/belong to a minority then you know that at times you've got to make deal with where you live. The likes of Fred will never get it.

basically Mordy I'm generally on your team but the chief rabbi's comments have to be understood in context. he's a personal supporter of the most hard-right government we've had in decades and his announcement, tantamount to LABOUR ARE RACIST VOTE TORY, has been timed to coincide with a significant poll-bump for Labour, and a TV debate on Saturday which basically had Labour performing strongly and the Tories disastrously. The rabbi's message went out in blaring front-page glory through the usual middle-market channels (BBC, Times etc) and was a clear and calculated intervention - you would have to be extremely dense to see it any other way. I am not against examining prejudice in left-wing politics but I am completely against a well-connected member of the establishment saying 'vote establishment! The other lot are racists!' and having that message unquestioningly disseminated as the overwhelmingly dominant news narrative by the scum who comprise our media. This isn't about antisemitism, this is about gaming an election

tbc i didn't bring up the rabbi's comments and didn't know about them until lbi mentioned them

xp I feel like any genuine efforts Corbyn makes to ameliorate accusations of antisemitism often get lost in the news quagmire.
Besides, what's he supposed to say other than 'I'm not antisemitic, I oppose racism in all its forms' and then to make sure he doesn't slip up in any way that might be deemed even remotely AS? You can't really gauge racism by its absence, only by what pervades and what was said in the past.
But this isn't all on Corbyn, to be fair to him. He represents his party and makes the big decisions, but it won't stop a bunch of so-called leftwingers on Twitter spouting crap. Systematic issues need systematic resolutions. You can't flush the toilet and next day all the racists have gone and your party's not racist any more.

If only Corbyn had stuck to the IRA stuff, he'd be a hero to a lot of Americans.

Imago otm

I was just explaining my 'discreditation' comment xps

there are ppl who claim antisemitism in the LAbour party isn't a real thing but I don't recall any ILXors being among them

― Simon H., Tuesday, 26 November 2019 bookmarkflaglink

really? i think some of those ppl are itt right now!

― Mordy, Tuesday, 26 November 2019 bookmarkflaglink

As you said you might have voted Lab because of their overall offer on things like climate change. That isn't shutting down on AS.

maybe you're right i don't feel like i know enough to say for sure but a) it seems bizarre that they'd get the chief rabbi to make a statement just to counteract a small polling bump and b) that they'd think using a chief rabbi would help very much with the general uk electorate. xp

I might have voted Corbyn but alas the fool supports Arsenal

Well, they're starting to get desperate. Corbyn is outperforming what they've prepared for again

it's a bit cynical is all and if someone else was saying it i'd suspect delusional

No-one got the Chief Rabbi to do anything, he did it all on his ownsome.

and maybe the reason he's worried about corbyn being elected is precisely for the reasons he gave!

it seems bizarre that they'd get the chief rabbi to make a statement just to counteract a small polling bump and b) that they'd think using a chief rabbi would help very much with the general uk electorate

from an outsider's perspective, AS has been the most consistently effective attack line against Labour/Corbyn (to the extent that it's basically all most non-UK ppl I know have heard about Corbyn if they've heard anything) so it doesn't seem that weird to me that Tories and their supporters would work to signal boost it as much as possible during an election. (tbc I'm not saying they're not earnestly concerned about it.)

Pretty sure it's not that effective electorally tbh.

We're kind of straight back in the realms of arguing about this particular rabbi, or who is or isn't using him to do some kind of electoral thing, or whether its electorally effective or not and not about what WE think Labour should actually do

Speed up expulsions is the main one. In the past kicking the can down the road was a way of punishing/not-punishing antisemites.

did the all party inquiry into antisemitism in UK politics not find that it was more widespread within the conservatives? am I misremembering? I genuinely can’t remember and can’t find the thing while on my phone

Anything substantive in the race & faith manifesto on this score?