powerful overlap energy with the taytay thread rn
― imago, Friday, 15 November 2019 19:25 (four years ago) link
but that one involves the most popular girl on the planet
― imago, Friday, 15 November 2019 19:26 (four years ago) link
but yeah, there people are suggesting she's sending suicide bomber stans at Big Machine
― Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Friday, 15 November 2019 19:26 (four years ago) link
GTFOH with 'bragged'
― Andrew Farrell, Friday, 15 November 2019 19:27 (four years ago) link
i'll stay thanks
― Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Friday, 15 November 2019 19:27 (four years ago) link
President Keyes, are you Jennifer Weiner?
― blue light or electric light (the table is the table), Friday, 15 November 2019 19:47 (four years ago) link
I think president keyes has a valid point—trying to construct this former student into the “perfect victim” falls into the same kind of trap the YA twitter mob does, exaggerating power discrepancies for emotional effect
― treeship., Friday, 15 November 2019 19:50 (four years ago) link
i'll take that, sure, but it's not like she was "wrong" or insulting in her original statements.
these Ashleys or Heathers or whatever, well, they're all wrong. Period.
― blue light or electric light (the table is the table), Friday, 15 November 2019 19:52 (four years ago) link
i dislike this popular girl framing
― american bradass (BradNelson), Friday, 15 November 2019 19:53 (four years ago) link
where is ed champion when we need him
(j/k!)
― mookieproof, Friday, 15 November 2019 19:54 (four years ago) link
The “popular girl” thing feels like a dodgy take imo I think it just seems like your typical twitter callout/pile-on/fallout that happens pretty frequently in a lot of different contexts for reasons both legit and dumb.
― omar little, Friday, 15 November 2019 20:02 (four years ago) link
I think it’s more to do with the cannibalistic mob atmosphere of Twitter we all love so much than it does “popular girls”
― treeship., Friday, 15 November 2019 20:03 (four years ago) link
So yeah otm.
― treeship., Friday, 15 November 2019 20:06 (four years ago) link
I absolutely messed up. When I responded to Dessen’s tweet I didn’t read the article just the screenshot. I related to a fellow author feeling the sting of criticism. I had no idea the young woman was not anonymous or was being harassed. I apologize for my part in all this.— roxane gay (@rgay) November 15, 2019
lol oh shit gotta protect the brand
― j., Friday, 15 November 2019 20:33 (four years ago) link
I feel like there is some overcorrection too.
Like some in that thread speculated that the girl who was piled on lost professional opportunities because she was piled on by prominent authors.
I doubt it to be honest. No one will remember this.
― treeship., Friday, 15 November 2019 20:41 (four years ago) link
It just seems in all directions the discourse is unhinged and out of control.
― treeship., Friday, 15 November 2019 20:42 (four years ago) link
"The Callout, The Pile-On, The Apology" fave Jodeci album
― Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Friday, 15 November 2019 20:46 (four years ago) link
Social media is just dumb
― treeship., Friday, 15 November 2019 20:47 (four years ago) link
― treeship., Friday, November 15, 2019 3:41 PM (twenty-five minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
pretty sure the college kid will remember this!
― like, I’m eating an elephant head (katherine), Friday, 15 November 2019 21:07 (four years ago) link
Sure but it won’t ruin their employment prospects, which is what people were speculating on that thread.
She didn’t do anything wrong.
― treeship., Friday, 15 November 2019 21:23 (four years ago) link
Tangentially related to "Twitter justice" and celebs unleashing their fans on people, Lizzo is now getting sued by the Postmates driver that she blasted on Twitter along with the girl's name and photo(!) for supposedly stealing her food. Allegedly, the driver just couldn't reach her by phone to confirm her hotel room, so she gave up trying to deliver it.
Bringing it up here since it seems like one of the first(?) high profile examples of a celebrity potentially facing consequences for stirring up their fans via Twitter.
― soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Friday, 15 November 2019 21:25 (four years ago) link
Is YA indie twee infantilism in book form? Discuss.
― Mazzy Tsar (PBKR), Friday, 15 November 2019 21:26 (four years ago) link
https://slate.com/culture/2019/11/sarah-dessen-ya-books-authors-brooke-nelson-social-media-attack.html
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Friday, 15 November 2019 22:40 (four years ago) link
pretty sure the college kid will remember this
lol she is studying this phenomenon in grad school, it will probably turn up in a chapter in her thesis
― j., Saturday, 16 November 2019 00:16 (four years ago) link
ahaha maybe she engineered this knowing exactly how it would play
― imago, Saturday, 16 November 2019 00:17 (four years ago) link
call the IRB!! IRB!!!!!!
― j., Saturday, 16 November 2019 00:24 (four years ago) link
Something important I’d like to say. pic.twitter.com/3MIhe5rxxH— sarahdessen (@sarahdessen) November 15, 2019
in roxane gay's replies there are still all sorts of sycophants who think she's so amazing for being able to do this; in dessen's replies it's merciless scolds
hahahaha
― j., Saturday, 16 November 2019 03:12 (four years ago) link
if a literary clusterfuck is not amusing, it amounts to nothing in the end
― A is for (Aimless), Saturday, 16 November 2019 06:06 (four years ago) link
that is a remarkably non-specific apology
― jesus is zing (symsymsym), Saturday, 16 November 2019 17:32 (four years ago) link
she's framing it as a learning experience for herself moreso than a terrifying experience for this young person
― treeship., Saturday, 16 November 2019 17:48 (four years ago) link
i mean she's not even spelling out what she did wrong, let alone accounting for what the college grad must have gone through. was the issue really that she was not "aware of what I put out there"?
― jesus is zing (symsymsym), Saturday, 16 November 2019 17:51 (four years ago) link
dessen wasn't aware that this would generate negative PR for herself. and she is deeply sorry. in the future, she will make sure to tweet stuff that will make people like her more.
― treeship., Saturday, 16 November 2019 17:53 (four years ago) link
Eh, she apologized. Seems okay enough to me.
― jmm, Saturday, 16 November 2019 17:56 (four years ago) link
many people are bad at apologies. they seem incapable of understanding why their apologies are bad, so they never learn. because contrition requires feeling bad and people resist feeling bad.
― A is for (Aimless), Saturday, 16 November 2019 18:12 (four years ago) link
I'm sure dessen did not intend to cause this clusterfuck and feels remorse, I just enjoy the non-apology apology genre
― jesus is zing (symsymsym), Saturday, 16 November 2019 18:19 (four years ago) link
I think she absolutely did intend the initial consequence of her tweet, obv she did not intend the backlash lolEven if the apology showed real self-reflection (it doesn’t) there would still be a healthy scepticism that someone petty & unhinged enough to namesearch & go after a rando who said something innocuous and true 3 years ago would suddenly develop a true emotional maturity two days later
― YouGov to see it (wins), Saturday, 16 November 2019 19:13 (four years ago) link
many people are bad at apologies. they seem incapable of understanding why their apologies are bad, so they never learn.
yes. And I think it's good that you are generalizing this here as "people" as opposed to what seems to be a tendency here on ilx to somehow revoke the "personhood" of artists, musicians, writers, etc. because they are "professionals" or "celebrities" like they should totally separate their work from themselves.
― sarahell, Saturday, 16 November 2019 19:20 (four years ago) link
Also this focus on "professional responsibility" or something like that, w/r/t fans or social media followers -- it's not like fans are the equivalent of the weird deformed rage children from Cronenberg's "The Brood" that go out and murder people their parent is mad at. These fans and followers, for the most part, are mentally competent adults who are responsible for their own actions.
― sarahell, Saturday, 16 November 2019 19:24 (four years ago) link
apology fetishism is a weird one but v interesting to me
― deems of internment (darraghmac), Saturday, 16 November 2019 20:16 (four years ago) link
These fans and followers, for the most part, are mentally competent adults who are responsible for their own actions.
― “Hakuna Matata,” a nihilist philosophy (One Eye Open), Saturday, 16 November 2019 22:44 (four years ago) link
this account one of Jennifer Warner's books makes it sound deranged (apparently it's about an evil book reviewer who gets her deserved comeuppance because she only likes literary fiction and not the kind of stuff Jennifer Warner writes)
https://sittinginthedinosaur.home.blog/2019/11/16/on-jennifer-weiner-criticism-and-what-makes-a-woman/
― soref, Sunday, 17 November 2019 09:43 (four years ago) link
my god, who on earth is that goon anyway
― imago, Sunday, 17 November 2019 10:05 (four years ago) link
roald dahl wd never
― mark s, Sunday, 17 November 2019 11:01 (four years ago) link
seriously though -- the people that participate in pile ons like this with no personal stake are an aspect of humanity that scares the shit out of me. I don't really want to invoke Arendt's "banality of evil" but I feel like there are similarities
― sarahell, Sunday, 17 November 2019 19:30 (four years ago) link
apology fetishism
I am unfamiliar with this term, deems. What kind of thoughts or behavior does is it meant to describe?
― A is for (Aimless), Sunday, 17 November 2019 19:33 (four years ago) link
I just wanna say I admire the pessimism of this thread title which seemed to conjecture there would be so many literary clusterfucks we'd need a new thread every year.
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Sunday, 17 November 2019 19:35 (four years ago) link
I would argue that it is optimism -- that we would be so on top of all the literary clusterfucks and have high-minded, thoughtful things to say about them, and also the optimism that national politics would not totally eclipse the literary in clusterfuckery
― sarahell, Sunday, 17 November 2019 19:37 (four years ago) link
We did spend much of the first week of impeachment hearings complaining about some YA authors though. Hope for the world after all.
― Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Sunday, 17 November 2019 21:12 (four years ago) link
*hi-fives ilx*
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Sunday, 17 November 2019 21:41 (four years ago) link
xp aimless oh yknow, when ppl hear of an apology theyve been clamoring for and start apology lawyering it as if it was genuine or as if there was a standard that could ever have been met that wouldve placated them, neither of which ever seem to be the case
― deems of internment (darraghmac), Monday, 18 November 2019 01:10 (four years ago) link