revising my statement, am now directing it at those tweeters (clearly they have never read small press or self-published authors replying to randoms on goodreads)
― like, I’m eating an elephant head (katherine), Friday, 15 November 2019 15:37 (four years ago) link
didn't simon reynolds coin poptimism? the word generally used here back in the say was "popism" (coined by warhol lol but not on ilx)
― mark s, Friday, 15 November 2019 15:47 (four years ago) link
and before that, 'popery'
― actor Robert de Niro disguised as an Uzbek homeopath (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 15 November 2019 15:51 (four years ago) link
even older, "poppycock"
― soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Friday, 15 November 2019 15:54 (four years ago) link
andy warhol was an ilxor
― treeship., Friday, 15 November 2019 15:58 (four years ago) link
I thought Ewing coined poptimism as a less awkward way to say popism. Maybe I'm wrong on that, but FT certainly embraced the word?
― Daniel_Rf, Friday, 15 November 2019 15:59 (four years ago) link
in the future everyone will be FP'd for 15 minutes
― “Hakuna Matata,” a nihilist philosophy (One Eye Open), Friday, 15 November 2019 15:59 (four years ago) link
he only posted fifty times, but each of those posts begat a sub-board
― imago, Friday, 15 November 2019 16:00 (four years ago) link
i think FT embraced it yes but only after it had been thrown at us first? the little LJ community was called poptimists.
tbh i don't recall the actual order of events (nor does it matter terribly much)
― mark s, Friday, 15 November 2019 16:02 (four years ago) link
I think Simon Reynolds coined it as a term of (mildish) abuse aimed at the FT end of the online pop discourse of the time, and it was embraced in the time-honoured tradition of the faavists, impressionists, stuckists and so on).
― Tim, Friday, 15 November 2019 16:43 (four years ago) link
(also, jodi picoult and jennifer weiner and roxane gay... don't write YA?)
― like, I’m eating an elephant head (katherine), Friday, November 15, 2019 10:24 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink
True. It does seem like most of these situations begin with YA though. There is something about that milieu.
― treeship., Friday, November 15, 2019 10:29 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink
For Weiner, at least, didn't this begin with her crusade against the Chick Lit label, or the NYTBR ignoring of writers marketed as Chick Lit?
― Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Friday, 15 November 2019 16:49 (four years ago) link
It surprised me when mark said it started as an insult on the metal thread. I thought it originated with Tom's DJ night. xp
― No language just sound (Sund4r), Friday, 15 November 2019 16:52 (four years ago) link
first use was by Steppenwolf in Magic Carpet Ride
― Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Friday, 15 November 2019 16:56 (four years ago) link
Ha
― No language just sound (Sund4r), Friday, 15 November 2019 16:57 (four years ago) link
I only know Roxane Gay from the one time Sarah Silverman interviewed her - she seemed alright. what's ppl's beef with her?
― Οὖτις, Friday, 15 November 2019 17:02 (four years ago) link
poor judgment
― j., Friday, 15 November 2019 17:04 (four years ago) link
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/11/15/sarah-dessen-south-dakota-college-student-ya-novel-backlash-twitter/
Some of the authors who supported Dessen said they didn’t know the young woman’s name had been made public and denounced the harassment Nelson received.“I thought she was anonymous,” Gay told The Post. “People shouldn’t be harassing her. That’s unacceptable.”
“I thought she was anonymous,” Gay told The Post. “People shouldn’t be harassing her. That’s unacceptable.”
I love the idea that scribbling out a name is a guarantee of anonymity when the article takes five seconds to Google.
― jmm, Friday, 15 November 2019 17:35 (four years ago) link
young woman's name was made public when she talked to the newspaper
― Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Friday, 15 November 2019 17:40 (four years ago) link
author's work was made public when it was published by her publisher
― j., Friday, 15 November 2019 17:59 (four years ago) link
The first Poptimism club night was in 2005, shortly before I moved to London, I think? I think it was called "Club FT" before that.
The second Jennifer Wiener tweet is completely OTM, of course - but that's poorly applied in this situation.
― Andrew Farrell, Friday, 15 November 2019 18:10 (four years ago) link
i don't think i have ever seen a reporter apologize for writing a story, at least when it didn't involve getting facts wrong:
Hey Sarah! I'm the writer of this story, and I definitely didn't mean to be cruel by including this quote.I am so sorry.Common Read has specific set of criteria, and many, many novels wouldn't make the cut.— KatherineGrandstrand (@kgrandstrandAAN) November 12, 2019
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Friday, 15 November 2019 18:22 (four years ago) link
lol then you haven't been reading the rest of twitter this past week
― j., Friday, 15 November 2019 18:28 (four years ago) link
pretty sound ~take~
I would like to talk about this episode, in which several young adult fiction writers with huge followings collectively dunked on a college student who opined in a local South Dakota paper that college students should be reading at a higher level than YA. https://t.co/UojWCOCd06— christmas cheer liz bruenig (@ebruenig) November 14, 2019
― j., Friday, 15 November 2019 18:29 (four years ago) link
That was the article that bumped this thread ffs
― imago, Friday, 15 November 2019 18:39 (four years ago) link
something about a cultural ourobouros
― imago, Friday, 15 November 2019 18:40 (four years ago) link
i think j. was referring to the tweet thread
― american bradass (BradNelson), Friday, 15 November 2019 18:42 (four years ago) link
oh oops
― imago, Friday, 15 November 2019 18:43 (four years ago) link
Elizabeth Bruenig is great
― treeship., Friday, 15 November 2019 18:45 (four years ago) link
Holy shit the north dakota journalist apologizing to the YA tyrant. xp
― treeship., Friday, 15 November 2019 18:48 (four years ago) link
Someone in THAT thread accused the reporter, who was apologizing, of having “internalized misogyny” simply because she published a quote from a source.
― treeship., Friday, 15 November 2019 18:49 (four years ago) link
this is all just popular-girl playground shit tbh
― imago, Friday, 15 November 2019 18:52 (four years ago) link
I would probably read a YA book about YA author drama.
― jmm, Friday, 15 November 2019 18:54 (four years ago) link
sarah dessen is a really popular girl and some dork (who the fuck are you?) has dared speak against her. that dork shall pay!!!
that is literally all that has happened here
― imago, Friday, 15 November 2019 18:54 (four years ago) link
Dessen has 269,000 followers on Twitter, btw, just for those who might not know how popular her books really are.
― blue light or electric light (the table is the table), Friday, 15 November 2019 18:59 (four years ago) link
I can understand how YA authors feel devalued by being labelled as writing books only fit for immature audiences. otoh, that YA label also helps them to acquire an audience and sell their books. if the YA marketing niche didn't exist and they had to simply compete for attention in the general fiction marketplace, the great majority of them would not have career to be defensive about. but, whatever you do, don't tell them that.
― A is for (Aimless), Friday, 15 November 2019 19:02 (four years ago) link
it really is just a bunch of privileged white women and their friends dunking on a recent college grad because she dared question the literary merit of their output. i'd say it's unbelievable that this is a national news story, but it isn't, because these ghouls will do anything to make a buck off their shitty pulp.
― blue light or electric light (the table is the table), Friday, 15 November 2019 19:02 (four years ago) link
Apologies for the pvmic but it’s all so infuriatingly American to boot.
― pomenitul, Friday, 15 November 2019 19:04 (four years ago) link
fuck why'd you have to take on the most popular girl in the school, daaaaamn
reckon there's cachet in this yet for young b nelson though, she's spoken up for Criticism and Real Literature, and gone viral doing so. a promising future awaits. maybe even a popular one
that said the aesthetics of s dessen sicking her gang onto this poor kid are monstrous, just like high school
― imago, Friday, 15 November 2019 19:05 (four years ago) link
It's all so dumb. Other writers group hugging Desser ("it's SO AWFUL and UNFAIR what this teenager said about your books"), journalists apologizing (wtf), others trying to make this about YA, about feminism/misogyny etc, about voices and stories not being heard... When, like LJ said, an overly sensitive highly popular person picked on an unknown teenager and reaped the cuddles and kind words that were sent to her en masse. Ugh.
― Le Bateau Ivre, Friday, 15 November 2019 19:12 (four years ago) link
table otm
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Friday, 15 November 2019 19:13 (four years ago) link
it's SO AWFUL and UNFAIR what this teenager said about your books
I'm sorry but why does everyone keep making this 2017 college graduate into a teenager?
― Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Friday, 15 November 2019 19:15 (four years ago) link
Like "A bunch of famous women ganged up on a 23 or 24 year old" doesn't sound bad enough?
― Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Friday, 15 November 2019 19:18 (four years ago) link
I think this happened when she was a junior in college
― treeship., Friday, 15 November 2019 19:20 (four years ago) link
yeah, but the article where she bragged about it is recent
― Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Friday, 15 November 2019 19:21 (four years ago) link
I was of the impression this happened when she was a teenager, so
― Le Bateau Ivre, Friday, 15 November 2019 19:23 (four years ago) link
Not that it matters a whole lot.
― Le Bateau Ivre, Friday, 15 November 2019 19:24 (four years ago) link
powerful overlap energy with the taytay thread rn
― imago, Friday, 15 November 2019 19:25 (four years ago) link
but that one involves the most popular girl on the planet
― imago, Friday, 15 November 2019 19:26 (four years ago) link
but yeah, there people are suggesting she's sending suicide bomber stans at Big Machine
― Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Friday, 15 November 2019 19:26 (four years ago) link
GTFOH with 'bragged'
― Andrew Farrell, Friday, 15 November 2019 19:27 (four years ago) link