minor TV observations

Message Bookmarked

Bookmark Removed

Not all messages are displayed: show all messages (126 of them)

these stereotypes only seem to exist in coventional 'safe' American comedies tho right? not the light-hearted drama shows - even in Ally Mcbeal, Judging Amy and i guess you could include Sex In The City as it has no audience which are all career-women shows which address/confront the classic stereotypes of women in society and at least play around with them if not totally redefine them.

― stevem (blueski), Saturday, 5 July 2003 13:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh, and you think the female characters on The Simpsons aren't flawed and funny? Again I don't watch the new ones, just the reruns, but dude ... Bart's teacher, Ms. Krabaple or however it's spelled ... and Lisa's teacher ("The children are right to laugh at you, Martin") ... and Marge's blissful cluelessness and her older sisters' hag scuzziness ... I think the female characters are a riot on that show.

― jewelly (jewelly), Saturday, 5 July 2003 13:39 (twenty-two years ago)

i think its different in animated series which will always be able to reflect real life in more surreal ways - messing around with the stereotypes is par for the course in The Simpsons, Family Guy, King Of The Hill, even South Park. its interesting that Futurama is considered not as popular despite the fact that its lack of an archetypal family unit for plotlines to revolve around means it remains fresher than those other shows, at least potentially.

― stevem (blueski), Saturday, 5 July 2003 13:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, I think stereotypes are an important part of comedy, Steve. I don't watch the shows you mentioned (have never even seen Sex in the City believe it or not)... But, hell, I know I fit into "negative" female stereotypes in a lot of ways (more than most women I know, I sometimes think) and it seems like comedy is just a process of taking these same old stereotypes, of men and women and other subcategories of humanity, and re-shaping them somehow. I'm just saying Friends has taken old-fashioned sitcom stereotypes of women (the ditz, the materialist and the housewife) and kept them surprisingly intact. It's a minor observation, lest we forget.

― jewelly (jewelly), Saturday, 5 July 2003 13:49 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm not trying to insult the female Simpsons characters, but I don't think Marge is remotely as flawed or funny as Homer, for instance, and this was true of the Flanders too, and it's hard to think of half a dozen funny regularish female characters compared to several times as many funny fairly regular male. There's a second level of very funny semi-regular characters who are almost all male. It's very far from even handed. I don't particularly mean to insult the show, one of my all-time favourites, but it's symptomatic of comedy traditionally regarding and portraying men as more flawed and funny than women. The long tradition in US sitcoms of the hopeless husband and competent wife was a particularly stifling pretence to respecting women, where I think it was just the opposite.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Saturday, 5 July 2003 13:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Martin raises a good point in his last sentence. The women may not be the ones portrayed as the brainless co-dependant idiots any more like in the days of I Love Lucy, but it's still the women being sucked up to.

Strong female characters such as Cybill S playing the Bruce Willeses off a break may have represented progress, back sometime around 1986. But surely with that 'lesson' now learnt it's time to move on again.

― Fred Nerk (Fred Nerk), Saturday, 5 July 2003 14:00 (twenty-two years ago)

The long tradition in US sitcoms of the hopeless husband and competent wife was a particularly stifling pretence to respecting women, where I think it was just the opposite.

Yeah, OK, hey while we're on the subject, I think Everybody Loves Raymond is interesting in this respect. Raymond's wife (I forget her name) is a stay-at-home mom/housewife and on the surface fits exactly into what you're talking about ... but, is it just me, or is she like the only family sitcom wife/mother (with the exception of Marge) who is actually funny? I think it's interesting that her intelligence and sophistication are a big part of what makes her funny.

― jewelly (jewelly), Saturday, 5 July 2003 14:00 (twenty-two years ago)

....but it's still the women being sucked up to.

by which I mean, the women in the audience.

― Fred Nerk (Fred Nerk), Saturday, 5 July 2003 14:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, of course, Fred -- this is television and they gotta sell tampons and dishwashing liquid.

― jewelly (jewelly), Saturday, 5 July 2003 14:04 (twenty-two years ago)

dare I say that this is an accurate reflection of real life tho - in my experience I've never met one woman who goes out on a limb to make people laugh compared to so many men I know who would do that (myself included), most I have met and know who prefer male company for friends probably do so because they enjoy the fact that they're going to laugh a lot more as groups of men can often turn comedy into a friendly but competetive game. the way the female characters on Friends or Sex & The City bounce off each other with witticisms doesnt seem as common in reality, compared to the frequency at which men will do this.

generally male comics are far more revered than female ones too - this is more than just a minor observation though so perhaps should be on another thread but why should this be anymore?

― stevem (blueski), Saturday, 5 July 2003 14:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Exactly, Jewelly. And the advertisers and programmers still see their target audience as so stupid and so shallow underneath all that 'modern woman' bullshit, and they are still such a lazy, complacent, anal-retentive breed of WASP yuppies (South Park ties or no), that this landscape will not change any time soon unless some sudden movement panics them into it.

― Fred Nerk (Fred Nerk), Saturday, 5 July 2003 14:13 (twenty-two years ago)

But, anyway, I understand what you're saying Martin (and Fred), the "strong" yet unfunny female really was a condescending way of giving props to women. And I think the female characters on Friends were funny for a while because the writers said fuck all that. I liked the show! And the situation with Everybody Loves Raymond is unique I think. The actress herself exudes a pretty unique brand of intelligence and wit that just can't be manufactured and copied the way sexist stereotypes or "strong" unfunny-women stereotypes can.

― jewelly (jewelly), Saturday, 5 July 2003 14:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Funny women

― stevem (blueski), Saturday, 5 July 2003 14:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Hmm ... OK steve, I guess I see your point: men are more inclined to make themselves the butt of jokes than women are. Though I'm such a weird, neurotic pain-in-the-ass that I've accepted being the butt of jokes as a matter of survival pretty much so I can't relate personally ...

― jewelly (jewelly), Saturday, 5 July 2003 14:21 (twenty-two years ago)

not just about being the butt of the joke tho. self-deprecation is probably one of the more common ways in which people - both men and women consciously make people laugh at them. but with men its more an ego thing, attention-seeking but possibly also recognising and drawing attention to the absurd aspects of life. from Monty Python to the writing teams of The Simpsons and its offspring (these teams just seem to be so male-dominated) the examples are plentiful.

― stevem (blueski), Saturday, 5 July 2003 14:27 (twenty-two years ago)

It's 1.30 am Melbourne time. Time to assume a horizontal attitude.

― Fred Nerk (Fred Nerk), Saturday, 5 July 2003 14:29 (twenty-two years ago)

I think I'd accept that men are more likely to show off generally, so are more likely to be wisecracking than women, but if we're talking about funny characters rather than funny comedians, I don't think women are less flawed, or those flaws are less liable to be funny, than men. Friends seems evidence of this, more or less. I don't think the current or past situation is necessarily pandering to women at all, any more than it is to men (obviously advertisers hold most people in low respect). I think not letting women be flawed and therefore funny in a comedy is patronising and retrograde, just as not letting women be strong and capable in action dramas would be. Men still dominate both areas. The fact that more men have been revered as top comics proves no more than that the world has been sexist for a long time, no more than that most revered painter have been male.

French & Saunders used to get loads of complaints from women, you know, complaining that their comedy characters were negative images of women, and they should be providing strong, intelligent, capable role models. I don't think this is likely to lead to huge hilarity, and I don't think that, to take as good parallel examples as I can, Rik & Adrian or Fry & Laurie got the same kind of complaint.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Saturday, 5 July 2003 14:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Just to totally change the subject, the new series of Mastermind started on BBC2 this evening with someone choosing "The Music of the Smiths since 1982" as his specialist subject (he won).

Seeing John Humphreys conduct a bit of "informed" banter (typical question "but aren't they a bit miserable?") with the least-likely-looking Smiths fan in the world, and hearing questions about How Soon Is Now? on Mastermind was one of the weirdest things I have seen on TV this (or any other) year.

― ailsa (ailsa), Monday, 7 July 2003 20:38 (twenty-two years ago)

typical question "but aren't they a bit miserable?")

am smiling thinking this was one of the actual quiz questions asked

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 7 July 2003 20:46 (twenty-two years ago)

in one of the sunday papers there was a "oh no!! TV is dumbing down!! oh no!" article based on the fact that knowing abt the smiths is being counted as knowledge

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 7 July 2003 20:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Hah! Wait until later in the series when someone is doing "The Simpsons" as their specialist subject (cartoons presumably being way dumber than music in the eyes of the Mail-reading Middle-Englanders).

― ailsa (ailsa), Monday, 7 July 2003 20:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Has there ever been a sitcom to rival The Good Life?
-- Matt (Mat...), May 9th, 2003.

Is this the shortlived sitcom that Drew Carrey had a role in?

― Leee (Leee), Monday, 7 July 2003 21:16 (twenty-two years ago)

No, he undoubtedly means an old and hugely popular UK one of that name, starring Richard Briers, Felicity Kendall, Penelope Keith and Paul Eddington. It was okay, but rather cosy.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 11:27 (twenty-two years ago)

It is the greatest UK comedy ever made.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 11:35 (twenty-two years ago)

the smiths questions included 'what label were they on?', 'what label were they on in america' and 'who was their drummer?'

this = dumbing down.

on a different note, paxman's chiding of the contestants when they couldn't do the binary arithmatic on university challenge last week was funny. after about 5 seconds he'd start hurrying them up whilst they were busy adding 2^7, 2^6 and 2^1 and dividing it by 2^3 plus 2^1.

andy

― koogs (koogs), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 19:10 (twenty-two years ago)

'what label were they on?', 'what label were they on in america' and 'who was their drummer?'
this = dumbing down.

its so dumbed down, rickshaws are running over it

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 19:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Tell me there were some hard ones too - that's just ridiculous. Would we be saying the same thing about questions on 'The Cotton Trade 1750-1900' if that was what we'd misspent our youth on, I wonder. Maybe they've always been easy.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 21:26 (twenty-two years ago)

I didn't think the Smiths questions were dumbed down at all - but then, I only got one of them.

In the final Magnus Magnusson series, one of the specialist subject was the Discworld novels; I knew more of the answers than the contestant did. But I wouldn't try to argue that they were asking easy questions, just because I knew what the answers were.

― caitlin (caitlin), Wednesday, 9 July 2003 10:32 (twenty-two years ago)

all questions are easy if you know the answers

― mark s (mark s), Wednesday, 9 July 2003 10:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, exactly. If you asked the Average Telly Viewer, they'd probably have as little clue what record label the Smiths were on as, say, any of the questions on Roman history or the British car industry that were on the same show.

― caitlin (caitlin), Wednesday, 9 July 2003 10:49 (twenty-two years ago)

That's what I was saying.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 9 July 2003 10:54 (twenty-two years ago)

And more eloquently, too.

― caitlin (caitlin), Wednesday, 9 July 2003 10:56 (twenty-two years ago)

epistemology in a nutshell

― Snowy Mann (rdmanston), Wednesday, 9 July 2003 12:15 (twenty-two years ago)

B-but surely if someone is specialising in knowing stuff about the Smiths, then "who is their drummer?" is a piss-easy question.

― ailsa (ailsa), Wednesday, 9 July 2003 16:17 (twenty-two years ago)

me:
adding 2^7, 2^6 and 2^1 and dividing it by 2^3 plus 2^1

this was wrong. obviously. the first 2^1 should be 2^3 (200 / 10 = 20)

sorry.

/me hangs head

andy

― koogs (koogs), Thursday, 10 July 2003 18:01 (twenty-two years ago)

three weeks pass...

David Cross and Bob Odenkirk need to be beaten with sticks.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 12:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Your first episode of Bo Selecta is always the best.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 12:11 (twenty-two years ago)

very true!

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 12:17 (twenty-two years ago)

I was recently watching that episode of the Simpsons where the school is cutting expenses, and they have Groundskeeper Willie teaching French.

"Bonjurrrr, yeh Cheese-eatin' Surrender Monkeys"

I occasionally forget that all good things come from the Simpsons. I'm sorry.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 23:33 (twenty-two years ago)

That girl drinking a diet coke on a train. She starts seeing suggestive lyrics in the signs around her, she's suddenly "on the pull"... Then when the fella reading a newspaper opposite her puts his paper down he's a spotty teen with a loud shirt. Calamity! She turns to one side and raises her eyebrows in a "what was I thinking" sort of way.

Here's news: YOU'RE NO OIL PAINTING YOURSELF, LOVE.

― Alan (Alan), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 07:40 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes she looks like Cherie Blair.

― j0e (j0e), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 08:26 (twenty-two years ago)

two months pass...

christmas adverts? already? pah

usually they wait until last week of october but both some air freshener thing and boots have already started.

andy

― koogs (koogs), Thursday, 16 October 2003 16:50 (twenty-two years ago)

I have yet to see a Christmas TV ad, thankfully. Or maybe I just watch programs that wouldn't highlight Christmas ads. I have seen Halloween ads, which is more sensible and logical.

Magical New TV Show I Think As Many People As Possible Should Be Watching: ABC's "Threat Matrix". It's highly engaging and not one of those serial-type series that one would be totally lost over if one were to suddenly start watching it. Each hour-long episode highlights one complete story, and not every episode ends neatly or nicely. I'm really hoping the ratings for this show improve so it won't get cancelled.

― Many Coloured Halo (Dee the Lurker), Friday, 17 October 2003 01:25 (twenty-two years ago)

They've started showing a condom ad on TV here. I could be wrong but I thought they avoided doing this (in prime time, certainly). Anyway it's one of those fnarr fnarr overtly suggestive ads - woman sees statue of David's wang and goes "hmmm", man sees woman in shop window undoing mannequin's fly and goes "hmmm", geez they might as well have gone all Percy's Progress and had trains going into tunnels, it was that silly.

― Trayce (trayce), Friday, 17 October 2003 02:52 (twenty-two years ago)

one year passes...

reviving martin's thread to alert him to the 'Roni Size's Bristol' thing that's currently showing on bbc3 (follow up to 'bloke from viz talks about newcastle').

― koogs (koogs), Wednesday, 13 July 2005 10:48 (twenty years ago)

is big brother officially an hour long now, on c4? it used to be 30min.

― N_RQ, Wednesday, 13 July 2005 10:55 (twenty years ago)

has been 45 or 50 this series, occasionally 65 on weeknights.

― koogs (koogs), Wednesday, 13 July 2005 11:07 (twenty years ago)

"The Who" was one of the specialist questions on Mastermind, 2 days ago.

I managed 2 get more than mr expert..

― mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 13 July 2005 11:07 (twenty years ago)

Has anyone else seen the ad on BBC for CBeebies interactive telly stuff? Is it just me, or does the mother on that ad look like the girl from the Chemical Brothers' "Setting Sun" video?

― accentmonkey (accentmonkey), Wednesday, 13 July 2005 15:35 (twenty years ago)

Thanks, Andy - I didn't see it, though. There was something like a 'Tricky's Bristol' on some years back, I remember.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Wednesday, 13 July 2005 17:06 (twenty years ago)

Skipping 26 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.