2008 Primaries Thread 2: THE QUICKENING

I mean it's not like anyone has ever said "I wouldn't vote for a black guy" to me either. But like I said I don't think voters are often aware of the subtext of the fact that they're uncomfortable with his "angry church" or the fact that he "just doesn't seem trustworthy" or whatever.

This is why I'm so excited about Obama: it's his metapolitics that says the "big lie" politics are what's wrong with American politics. I believe he'll do what a president can do to get us past this (which sadly isn't very much: our culture has to get past this too, and that's the real issue).

100% agree

Shakey: I'm not because if she's willing to manipulate people so that she can get her way, maybe she'll be able to manipulate Congress and/or foreign leaders into doing what she wants them to do, which, if it matches her campaign platform, will be an end result not far from what Obama is aiming for

I understand this, Dan (and note the "maybe" in your sentence), but HRC has been so feeble that she reminds me of all those feckless congressmen on Tim Russert's show, fluent in the Beltway banter and little else. For a while Obama's virtues for me were strictly negative: he didn't sound like HRC, McCain, or Giuliani.

One thing I like a lot (probably the most) about Obama's message is that it's vague and mutable. He's not going into an unknown situation with a cast-in-stone plan that will almost certainly be blown out of the water by the first unexpected occurrence; he's going in with a series of overarching goals and a general methodology for getting there, with the idea that he will survey the lay of the land and adjust his strategies accordingly to acheive his goals. At least, that's the message I take away from his campaign; I don't know how much of that is "how I would be President" transferrence.

Dan, it really upsets me to read how fearful some of your friends are.

I would feel less hesitant about Hillary as a President if I believed even a little that she was willing to attack her Presidential battles with the venal gusto she has applied to her candidacy.

I knew about Wright because I was introduced to him not through soundbites but through Obama's first book, and although the "controversial" tenor of the speech excerpts is somewhat present it is also very apparent that Wright is better than that. Interestingly, Wright is speaking in Florida tomorrow and this will obviously be mobbed by press. One can only hope this encounter will help and Wright will deliver a better form of jeremiad.

No, that's exactly what I told my mom last week when she dismissed his campaign's lack of specifics. "The good candidates NEVER get specific in a primary, and the great ones never do in the GE either."

(xpost)

I would feel less hesitant about Hillary as a President if I believed even a little that she was willing to attack her Presidential battles with the venal gusto she has applied to her candidacy.

And there are LOTS of left-liberals who want vengeance for 8 years + of GOP smears, but ulitmately what's left? It's not even fun angry-sex.

There's definitely an odd backlash among some bizarre subsubsubsegment of the black population that's basically like "I don't know if he's prepared for this plus he'll get shot;" I think it's part of why Clinton won MA.

(ie my representative sample is tiny so I don't know how widespread the attitude is but I've heard it more than once from people who don't intersect)

Maybe they're just understandably fearful and preparing themselves for the worst?

we should all be praying that mccain actually wins so we can pound the last nail in the GOP's coffin and kick that fucking party to the curb for a decade and some change

MW OTM.

BTW I have heard people - even Democrats - say that Obama's race is a negative for them. People are just not entitled to use *anyone's* race as a yardstick in an election contest any more.

Some of the older, professional black guys in my building almost wear their Clinton support as a badge of pride, as if only fools and dreamers were behind Obama.

Well, one guy in particular was adamant that Romney was going to be the next President so it's not like everyone saying this has their pulse on the tenor of America.

Lol at monolithic black American experience. My neighborhood was once majority black and I wonder how some of them are going to vote. Some of them are really religious and really conservative by the sound of them.

by the time the GE rolls around they'll be voting for whoever promises them jobs the most effectively. that's not to say anything about your neighborhood. that'll be the whole country.

99% of black and white people i know in IL are voting obama

And there are LOTS of left-liberals who want vengeance for 8 years + of GOP smears, but ulitmately what's left? It's not even fun angry-sex.

The best revenge would be achieved by taking the high road to the White House.

Suzy OTM

_______’s unexpected prominence on the election calendar has brought it weeks of the sort of attention traditionally reserved for early-voting states like Iowa and New Hampshire. _______s are rushing in record numbers to sign up as Democrats so they can vote in the primary, The Associated Press reported.

^^^In every primary news story ever^^^

Tom, I would concur with your dour assessment wrt McCain except that I genuinely think that the country is almost but not quite held together with duct tape at this point and we can't afford to let it get too much worse.

am I the only person who has this parallax view regarding how in the fuck mccain managed to actually win the GOP nomination? this is a guy who ran out of money last year. like twice he completely ran out of money. he's a crazy doddering old man who's been eaten alive by his own party in previous elections and for all intents and purposes is the least likely to hold on to his own "base" in the GE. the dude should have had a snowball's chance in hell to beat romney and giuliani et al in the primaries, who talked them into fucking everything up against this schlub?

You know, Tom, that perplexes me, too. Is it 'cause the Repubs think he's their best hope in a GE? Is he a sacrificial offering in a losing year. Did they hold their nose and vote for their best candidate with (what they think is) their best issue? No Repubs love this guy.

I think it's totally that he's a fall guy. The people who fund and run the GOP, for the most part, all got where they are by being greedy, devious, cutthroat sons of bitches. I think they see the writing on the wall for the next four years and they put this poor old man out there to get humiliated one last time.

They don't WANT the next term. the next term is going to be hell on earth for this country.

Do you really think McCain is any less an SOB?

1. Romney didn't gain traction.

2. Ron Paul was no one's favourite martian after all.

3. Hey! Giuliani! 9/11 does not give you (202) area code.

4. Huckabee has a very promising career...on television.

Which leaves one fake maverick who <3 Reagan and therefore business as usual. Oh, and moderate GOPs/swing voters like him a lot.

not that theres not party leaders mucking around but this is sort of self-selective too - like who in their right mind really wants to run from the republican side this year

romney and especially giuliani were super weak candidates

I think it's totally that he's a fall guy. The people who fund and run the GOP, for the most part, all got where they are by being greedy, devious, cutthroat sons of bitches. I think they see the writing on the wall for the next four years and they put this poor old man out there to get humiliated one last time

Walter Karp to thread. Seriously. Which is why the GOP, despite its genuine carping, genuinely WANTS her to become the nominee -- she's most likely to continue the tone and policies of this administration.

lets see what the dems can do w/this shit-cake we cooked them up!

Do they, Suzy? I used to have some admiration for him but he sold out on a variety of issues and if he's so friggin' smart about the war, why does he act like a navy officer instead of an advisin' and consentin' US Senator all this time the Bush Admin has been fucking up?

I used to listen to NPR in the the shower in the morning for years. About 2005, the clock radio in the bathroom broke and I never replaced it, primarily 'cause waking up and listening to the latest venal, asinine, craven or just plain wrong thing the Admin were up to was becoming perilously close to bad for my general welfare. If Obama won, I might just get a new one.

WTF apparently this "typical white person" thing Obama said about his grandmother in a radio interview is gaining traction.

I give up, America. Stupid has won.

Johnny, links?

Re. McCain I'm just talking about people my mom knows who were either a) in Vietnam b) Reagan Democrats who got stuck c) racist or d) aren't as bothered about sellout issues as you are.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/taylor-marsh/obama-grandmother-typic_b_92601.html

Now they've just spent almost an hour talking about it on MSNBC, and probably FOX and CNN too (but I haven't been watching those).

grrrrrrrrrrrrreat!

i quit america.

I never read the Huffington Post. Does it seriously allow imbeciles to post shit like that?

The truth is that racism works both ways and some of us blue collar folks

eat a dick

'some of us blue collar folks'

Ferraro Fires Back
Offended by comparison to fiery pastor

Geraldine Ferraro complains about Obama lumping her in with his controversial pastor, whom she calls a 'racist bigot'

What else are they going to talk about on tv? The war? Depressing. The economy? Depressing, and hard to understand. Race? Titillating! And talking about Obama, I'm sure, gets the ratings up. So this is just win-win for them, even if lose-lose for America.

The Clintons helped make this media culture so profitable (blue dresses, etc.) and they're using it now to their advantage.

(apologizes for sounding so sanctimonious)

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,339949,00.html

^^^^^^actually ... not bad??

Fifty-seven percent of Americans do not believe Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama shares the controversial views of his former spiritual mentor the Rev. Jeremiah Wright,

Most Americans — 72 percent — are familiar with the comments made by Obama’s former pastor.

this means the story has kind of hit its threshold to some degree, right?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/contributors/taylor-marsh/headshot.jpg http://www.huffingtonpost.com/contributors/taylor-marsh/headshot.jpg http://www.huffingtonpost.com/contributors/taylor-marsh/headshot.jpg

hi i'm typical blue collar person taylor marsh

nowhere to go but up ... unless more bad shit happens

What he described abt gran on radio is also in that first book, basically she gets hassled at the bus stop by an aggressive black guy; it's the first time she has felt threatened by someone from another race. She tries to get her husband to drive her the work to next day and to avoid the issue, but Obama finds out after he sees they're upset about something and they're reluctant to share it. She's ashamed to her core to have to admit that she's scared of a random black guy first to her husband and then, more upsettingly, to her grandson.

We have all been in situations where someone who is different to us in belief or skin colour or strength has made us feel stranger danger. In some cases there are reasons to feel shame for that, and some not.

is this "typical white person" line seriously getting traction? it doesn't seem to noted on any of the networks' webpages. what are they saying on the tele?

if hillary called her BLACK GRANDMOTHER a 'typical black person' im pretty sure people would be forgiving.

but that would be because she was black

lol racial double standard

comments on huffington blog are mostly encouraging, though.

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