2008 Primaries Thread 2: THE QUICKENING

FWIW a pro-Obama friend of mine seemed less impressed by the speech than I woulda guessed: "Have you read 'Audacity'? A lot of that stuff is right out of the book. It was a pretty good speech but in a general election, independent swing voter sense it still doesn't answer the question of why you put that guy on your campaign steering committee."

Yeah, I'm still concerned about that too. Obviously from a personal point of view I liked the speech, but I didn't need any reassuring about his ties with Wright to begin with.

At very least, he's addressing it extensively and early, and whatever he did seems to be baffling conservative commentators and making it hard for them to counterpunch.

"John Edwards. Senator John Edwards -- remember him? -- who's been conspicuously silent since he dropped out of the race, will endorse a Democratic candidate probably before North Carolina, certainly before North Carolina, possible before Pennsylvania. And our own Mark Halpern on the page says it's going to be Senator Hillary Clinton."

Edwards waited far too long for his endorsement to make much difference.

clintonite clinton-lite to endorse clinton...developing...

is the 'is mccain a warhero really?' thing the left version of the right's 'is obama black really?' ? how likely is it to get more traction than the right's version did? when's the last time a leftwing version of a rightwing tactic worked better than the right's version did?

I haven't seen anybody on the left questioning his war hero status...?

Otoh, I think a fairly strong case could be made that his war experience rendered him totally fucking nuts.

I think McCain was probably nuts long before then.

I haven't seen anybody on the left questioning his war hero status...?

ya rly, where are you getting this, balls?

I mean I saw muttering about it on the RIGHT, but not from the left (who tend to concede national security dick-waving contests)

shakey read above; admittedly i haven't seen this anywhere in the real world. and yeah re: 'nuts', alot of his more personal grudges 'fuck protestors, yes to vietnam/iraq to the bitter end fuxors' i could vaguely nod politely at and not really engage seriously if it was just the cantankerous bitter old vet (the way ppl patronize morbs for example) but coming from someone who can enact policy eh, not so much. that said no need to deny his backstory - guy is the biggest warhero to see november in any of our (excepting morbs of course) lifetimes. and bob dole was funny and reagan was good in the killers and nixon...i can't think of anything nice to say about nixon. point being that nice decent guy whatevah i don't need to tear down the man to vote against him or to get others to vote against him - his politics in general but ESP his politics on the most important issue right now (war or economy - take yr pick) are fundamentally wrong and (perhaps)(thankfully) out of step w/ the american ppl and THE VERY THINGS he is making the cornerstone of his campaign. obama isn't gonna have to work very hard to paint mccain as '4 more years of bush' since mccain's half determined to do it himself. which is why the one thing i really like about obama's speech today is that while yes, yes nuanced, genuinely thoughtful speech actually dealing w/ race in america in a way noone in our (excepting morbs) lifetimes has given, but what i really take away from it is how it works into the (unspoken? i don't know) central theme of obama's campaign ie. (gabbneb get ready to cream all over yr pate) 'change vs. more of the same'.

although lol even at this the right is better at it than the left since the left version of questioning mccain's warhero status is hippydippy 'is there such a thing as a warhero really?' whereas the murmurings on the right were 'maybe perhaps he was a collaborator w/ the viet cong?'. you will never beat the right at limbo.

admittedly i haven't seen this anywhere in the real world.

then why suggest it here...?

xpost PROJECTING, MUCH?

What's most horrifying about McCain is that, of the generals we've elected president (Washington, Grant, Eisenhower; I won't count Taylor), he's the only one whose war lust is part of his campaign. Goddamn Grant, one of our least impressive presidents, had as his campaign slogan, "Let us have peace"! A banality, sure, and it signalled his party's later betrayal of Lincoln's principles, but telling.

More and more the only Cold War president I admire is Eisenhower, who still did his share of fucked up shit in Guatemala and responding to Brown vs Board of Education, but he'd seen enough blood in his lifetime to pause before committing American troops ANYWHERE, even in Little Rock.

Andrew Jackson? I guess he wasn't a general.

Neither was McCain though.

mccain is a general d-bag imo

well more than war lust it's a replay/continuation of 'we coulda/shoulda won vietnam' myth that the right's been hanging (bizarrely successfully) on dems for thirtyodd years updated for a new war/new generation cf. kinison v. dangerfield.

no one on the Democrats' side has said, "Who cares?" History has proven it didn't matter.

been enjoying these threads but just loved the way the two Obama stories on Yahoo right now basically dovetail

Analysis: Obama grabs race issue
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080318/ap_on_el_pr/obama_race_matters;_ylt=Anxh28oVs5flhUWtM1OCPINh24cA

Most of the speech was fairly high-minded, with few if any overt appeals for votes. Obama doubtlessly raised eyebrows in many circles, however, with a populist pivot that named a new villain in the racial divide.

"Black anger" and "white resentments," he said, have "distracted attention from the real culprits of the middle-class squeeze: a corporate culture rife with inside dealing, questionable accounting practices and short-term greed."

Obama's Bid Doesn't Have Support of Most Black Corporate Elite
http://news.yahoo.com/s/bloomberg/20080318/pl_bloomberg/aomovfb7iaz8;_ylt=AlmhAeo9WyiJ8aOfPBxpxOus0NUE

March 18 (Bloomberg) -- Barack Obama's quest to become the first African-American president is being run without the financial support of much of the black corporate elite.

Less than one-third of the 191 black members of the boards of the largest 250 U.S. companies have contributed to the Illinois senator's campaign, according to Federal Election Commission records. The list of board members was compiled by Black Enterprise magazine.

duh, they're hillary supporters. alot of black pols did the same bet hedging themselves and came to vocally regret it once the votes came in; black ceo's can afford to play 'wait and see' longer. i'd be surprised if come november bob johnson was a heavy mccain contributer. that said if obama was in a market sistah souljah bob johnson would make a beautiful one. maybe wait til after north carolina though.

what

someone explain the killfile thing to me again

McCain's campaign immediately responded, saying the "Democrats have launched political attacks today because they know the American people have deep concerns about their candidates’ judgment and readiness to lead as commander in chief.”

This reminds me of the Dick Cheney line that, when violence escalated in Iraq in 2006, it proved that the insurgency was at its "last gasp" and throwing every last resource into the affray out of desperation. This sort of sad stuff seems to satisfy the faithful, though.

...the real culprits of the middle-class squeeze: a corporate culture rife with inside dealing, questionable accounting practices and short-term greed.

This line, if pursued by Obama, will no doubt elicit the old "fomenting class warfare" bromide from McCain with the required tsking and finger wagging. However, if the Fed sparks off 15% - 20% inflation by the election (which isn't wholly out of the question the way they're going right now) then the electorate will be in the mood for much more red-meat "eat the rich" rhetoric than this little opening tidbit.

shit it's an amazing speech

http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=4473132

hasselback can kiss my ass

I've got no real hate for Hasselback, because she's not smart enough to arrive at conclusions herself. She just listens to Hannity on her way back home every afternoon and then recycles his bullshit the following morning.

BTW, Hannity today said "I'm no longer a Republican." I don't know if that's a relatively new thing or what.

Great, if all the dudes of his ilk exit the Republican party officially, they can go back to at least being a little more respectable an opponent.

this is getting into primary fanfic territory, but i really want Obama to deliver a message that puts the victim-politics, anti-patriotism, AND funny-name memes to bed: that he <3 America like a son of a bitch because a life like his could not have occurred in any other country

-- gff, Friday, March 14, 2008 12:32 PM (4 days ago)

o man did i call it or what.

just watched the address, and yeah it's really something. very careful, clear, measured. you could tell he was working a smaller room (sort of wish the cameras were farther back in these things, demme-in-stop-making-sense style). maybe it wasn't his A game but the speech had a cumulative power, i think it's better in reflection, and that's unfakeable.

agree with the general tenor of most liberal commentary (and charles murray, heh) that this is a singular gem of analysis and rhetoric -- you can tell this is a dude who has spent a lifetime explaining difficult shit to people. the self cribbing and the dig at ferraro was a bit much, i guess.

politically, what will this do? i don't know. it's a remarkably beautiful end to an ugly news cycle, but it'll never be done with. hannityland is immune to fact but also to embarrassment; we're going to be hearing about wright forever now. the science says bullshit sticks; once the negatives come up they never go down again. he expects america to be very patient and attentive. maybe that's presidential, maybe it's stupid. if i were to make a prediction, though, i think that this speech will have a long, long shelf life, maybe it will be a real long term blessing.

in pure electoral/charater-ological terms, can anyone believe that either HRC or mccain have the guts or the brains for an address like this? does anyone have any idea what they think this country is and where it comes from, and what their place in it is? it's not mere words; i can't think of another candidate in my lifetime, not even poor sweating Bill, who sees this country as it is with this kind of clarity. and to be able to summon up this kind of acuity in the middle of a huge political crisis is astonishing. here's john dickerson:

Even if you didn't buy everything he said, you might be impressed with a person who can take on such a subject so quickly with such scope. Obama managed to chart the topography of the black church and failures within the African-American community as well as put his finger on the elements of anger that exist in the white community. Remember also that he did all of this while in the middle of a sleep-stealing, gut-punching presidential campaign, which is like writing the speech while riding backward on a flaming unicycle.

my longass .02, thx.

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/pictures/20080318SheehanBerkeley.jpg
lol left wing 'morans'

rip?

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1658599/bio

http://minx.cc/?post=258049

Now, once again: Watch Wright's relish -- his nearly orgasmic delight -- in saying "America's chickens... have come home... to roost." Watch this blackhearted monster dance and flutter his hands in a happy flourish as he celebrates and exults in the deaths of 3000 Americans and foreign nationals, all civilians and all innocents, as it represents a vindication of his sickening worldview and a well-deserved comeupppance for the nation he so deeply hates.

Now, Mr. Barack Hussein Obama: As your disgusting spiritual mentor and political guide is publicly celebrating the terrorism of 9/11 as blatantly as the Palestinian terrorists did that very day, and as excitedly as Al Qaeda does:

Would you say these comments are merely "controversial" or potentially "controversial"?

Would you like a second try at that, you rotten bastard?

How many prisoners did he minister to to cancel out this disgusting celebration of mass murder on a mega scale?

How much Hope and Change have you actually delivered to cancel out your own voluntary, bear-hug embrace of this repellent seditionist?

I read in wiki that he had enlisted in the Navy. But, Obama says he was a marine. Which is it?

Posted by: Mack at March 18, 2008 03:58 PM (6b+T9)

Okay reading that broke my brain.

both:

He then joined the United States Marine Corps and later transferred to the United States Navy where he worked as a cardiopulmonary technician.

Mack, the correct answer to the question "was Jeremiah Wright in the Navy or the Marines?" is, "who gives a damn what some America-hating racist demagogue did between when he got out of school and when he started attracting thousands of America-hating racist supporters?"

Posted by: bgates at March 18, 2008 04:04 PM (z6drm)

jesus fucking harold christ

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120588322321046835.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/18/AR2008031802594.html?hpid=opinionsbox1

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2007/09/07/PH2007090702320.gif

"Ms. Ferraro was, at worst, saying that Mr. Obama is helped because many Americans want to vote for someone who is black."

hahahaha fuck this guy

Noncompassionate conversatism

also lol dems be vaugely populist shocka

the number of people who would vote for somebody just because he/she is black is probably roughly equal to the number of people who would vote for somebody just because she is female

i eagerly await the wsj's 'revelation' that homie was a community organizer that 'men like us have fought against for nearly a century'

cavalcade of stupid editorials continue

http://www.slate.com/id/2186845/

deej are you giving us a cross-section here or am i to understand you're seeking out the stupid/frustrating ones