"I Hope You're Happy Now, Jacob"--The LOST Season 5 Thread

whatever explanation they have for how locke needed to be dead in order for someone/thing else to take his form withOUT using his body, looking fwd to that (probably this time next year if we're lucky)

I was kinda shocked by the casting choice for Jacob. Thought in that first scene that they were introducing new characters who got stranded on the island in 1996 or something until I saw the ship.

ya it was a bit weird especially because I recognized him as the creepy wife-rapist from Dexter.

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/lostpedia/images/thumb/7/79/5x16_Jacob_and_nemesis.png/800px-5x16_Jacob_and_nemesis.png

"Dude I can't believe they just ditched us on this island."
"Bitches, man..."

their haircuts are way too contemporary.

yeah i'm starting to feel like Locke's 'special'ness all along was just that Jacob's enemy wanted to use him as a vessel

it would piss me off greatly if all Locke amounted to was a guy duped into being a vessel for some malevolent being whose existence wasn't even hinted at until the last episode of season 5! i imagine i'm not alone among Lost fans in wanting one of the show's best characters to be special and fulfil a bigger destiny. I hope he does get resurrected in some way and didn't just die for nothing.

they've seen the past present and future so many times that they've been able to pick out what haircuts they like best

also dug american accents

Is nemesis dude wearing a tattered hoodie in that photo?

also he is wearing lame sandals whereas jacob is hardcore barefoot

does jacob have four toes?!

Maybe they sound like that because they're actually from the future and got stuck in the past. Jacob just really liked egyptian stuff so he decided to work on some tapestries while stuck on the island

^^^ like this theory.

Have we seen Ghost Locke touch anyone at any point? I'm wondering if whatever allowed Evil Nemesis to take possession of Locke was not Locke's death but actually Jack putting Christian's shoes on him.

Actually if they're from the future that I'm calling the dude in black as grown-up Aaron.

There's got to be a reason they haven't given him a name yet.

his name... is vincent!!!!!

Charlie Hume

people thinking way too hard on this thread

"but you can call me Mr Cluck"

totally forgot about Locke wearing Christian's shoes, good call

xpost

I'll try to stop spamming the thread with random ideas for a while after this, but have we seen any evidence that any of the previous leaders before Ben ever talked to Jacob personally without Richard as an intermediary?

Have we seen Ghost Locke touch anyone at any point?

He did present the group with a boar, which doesn't seem very ghost-like to me.

unless it was a GHOST BOAR

a hundred xposts:
xxpost the episode where Richard visits Locke as a child - Richard was unhappy that Locke chose the knife. Maybe because the hunting knife represented Esau i.e. the knife that would eventually kill Jacob?

? Roz, Friday, May 15, 2009 1:21 PM (31 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
In this episode Richard mentions "I've visited John three times..." by 77, so the "test" of the various items already had happened by the time Ben stabbed Jacob.. right?

Ben stabbed Jacob in 2007, I believe?

it would piss me off greatly if all Locke amounted to was a guy duped into being a vessel for some malevolent being whose existence wasn't even hinted at until the last episode of season 5!

I don't think it'll play out this way. I mean it could, but Jacob was present at the defenestration for a reason.

Okay, so these interventions by Jacob. Is there anything more we can make out of it?

Kate: he bought her a box
Sawyer: gave him a pen to finish the letter
Sayid: killed Nadia
Alana: "Will you help me Alana?"
Locke: Saved his life when Locke jumped/fell
Jin/Sun: At Jin & Sun's wedding, congratulating
Jack: In the hospital with Jack, sharing lol candy
Hurley: With Hurley in a cab ("it's not my guitar"!)

Was the "Will you help me Alana?" being acted upon once she's on the island? How did they first meet, do we know?
Was the box he bought her the same box where she buried those tapes in underneath a tree, back in season 1?
Are there more things here that lead to the same 'motive'?

Great finale though, thoroughly enjoyed it, except for the love-quadrangle and the lame shoot out at the end.

xxxp yup, so when Richard tested Locke in 1960 whenever with the various items, he wouldn't know that the knife would be used on Jacob..

oh man! I think that NKOTB lunchbox WAS the time capsule.. good call

oh man! I think that NKOTB lunchbox WAS the time capsule.. good call

― she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Friday, May 15, 2009 5:14 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark

Yay! Finally maybe, I may have actually discovered something on this show! :) Lost can drive me crazy trying to understand it sometimes, understanding all the theories afterwards even!

xxpost I really just meant that the reason Richard was unsatisfied with the testing was because the knife represented the hunter i.e. Esau.

Sayid: killed Nadia

That's a bit much. He saved Sayid =/= he killed Nadia.

ah Roz, fair enough, I getcha now. I thought you were implying Richard would have known that the knife killed Jacob.. But yes, if they are going the way we think they are with this Esau/Hunter thing I could see that.

On a relatively unrelated note, I still wonder why young Locke would draw pictures of the smoke monster. Hmph.

Sayid: killed Nadia

That's a bit much. He saved Sayid =/= he killed Nadia.

― butt-rock miyagi (rogermexico.), Friday, May 15, 2009 5:22 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark

Yeah, you're right about that.

I dunno, I think Jacob had to have shown up in that time and place to separate her from her protector while she was in the middle of traffic. Same as killing her in my book.

because Nameless/Esau is the smokemonster? ie FakeAlex, FakeChristian. xxp

yeah but Esau couldn't have inhabited Locke until he died.. Locke was 3-5 years old when he drew those pictures! (if that was to me)

i took it to mean that Locke, rather than being the future leader of Jacob's people, was actually already marked to represent Esau. This is why Richard was so unconvinced about him - everything about Locke as a young man didn't seem like he was going to grow up as the leader of Jacob's people but Richard kept on visiting him because Locke himself told him that he WAS their leader.

From that scene it looked like the driver of the car intended to kill Sayid, with Nadia as collateral damage.

Kate, Sawyer, Jin and Sun all broke 'promises' they made to Jacob, although that may be a red herring.

That's a bit much. He saved Sayid =/= he killed Nadia.

Perhaps he isn't even allowed to interfere in the lives of anyone other than those who are chosen for the island? Maybe part of his choices are made because these people have a good reason to disappear?

Did Jacob also choose the scores of other people who have spent time on the island, or just particular people? Did he pick Nikki and Paulo? Phil and Radzinsky? Keamy? Or do some people find the island on their own, due to the unintended effects caused by those who are chosen?

@Matt DC, still, so far all the ways people have looked into this, Sayid and Hurley always take in a different position as the others right? I just can't really understand why those two. The last couple of episodes especially, Hurley didn't bring anything special plotwise did he? xp

Hurley keeps rolling into groups of "others" with a Dharma van, that's something :) Something AWESOME!

True :)

lotta statue discussion on Lostpedia, some folks are pretty sure the statue is of Tawaret now (i.e. cuz it said so in an ABC press release).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tawaret

i took it to mean that Locke, rather than being the future leader of Jacob's people, was actually already marked to represent Esau.

i'm wondering if the Others/Richard/Ben even know that Esau exists. I'm not trying to invalidate your point, just thinking aloud.

Taweret became seen, very early in Egyptian history, as a deity of protection in pregnancy and childbirth

yes, and possibly the statue is destroyed by the same event that made the island women infertile.

i'm wondering if the Others/Richard/Ben even know that Esau exists.

yeah actually i was wondering about that too esp since hardly anyone speaks to Jacob at all.

i was thinking through the cycle of Locke's life and it kind of looks like this:

Locke dies -> Nameless/Esau/FakeLocke takes over his body, tells Richard to tell Locke that he had to die -> Locke tells Richard that he's their leader (on the side of Jacob) -> Richard visits young Locke many times over the years is unconvinced -> Locke gets to the island -> becomes leader, starts time-jumping -> Locke gets off island and dies

basically locke's entire life has been engineered in order to get him to the moment where he dies, so that fakelocke can take over.

but i also think it's possible that Locke still has a bigger destiny for the same reason i'm assuming the rest of the castaways do, because Jacob came and visited them and made them all special somehow.

oh shit i might just be a bit sleepy but now i have this dumb theory that maybe it's gonna be like harry potter where jacob saves a bit of his soul in everyone he touches so that even if he dies, a little bit of him lives on in everyone else.

but is unconvinced*

tawaret is also Set's concubine - i think the EW recap made a pretty good case that Jacob and Nameless could also be Set and Horus.

I still suspect that Locke was supposed to be on the side of Jacob, initally though. Why else would Jacob bother to heal him, bring him to the island and so on (remember the whole arc of season 1 where Locke loses his legs again because the island decides to take them away, leading to Boone's sacrifice?). Similarly Ben had fallen out of the island's favor when he got cancer, though that may have just been part of the island's machinations w/respect to Jack.

However, once Locke met up with Ben and visited Esau at the Cabin, Esau used this loophole - that Locke was destined to be the island's Leader and would hence be the one to be able to meet with Jacob (that seems to be one of the rules) and have him killed... it's still fuzzy.

The themes of free will vs. pretermination are constantly self-conflicting when it comes to Locke. On one hand he seems to desperately want to follow the island and embrace it, worship it and go with his destiny, but for much of his life and his actions he hates the idea that anyone could tell him what to do (even on the island - his fights with Jack early on, outrage when discovering the Swan was "just" a social experiment and not actually important, though it turned out to be both!)

I guess I'm saying, writing off Locke is as an-always chump doesn't feel right, in terms of what this show is going for, I don't buy it that he was just a pawn his whole life. Though if he was, that everyone one of the people Jacob manipulated onto Oceanic 815 was...