"I Hope You're Happy Now, Jacob"--The LOST Season 5 Thread

He was always destined to be Adam & Eve's dog.

was trying hard to remember where i'd seen jacob recently. i think it's cuz he was rita's creepy convict husband on Dexter.

i think i'm bummed at the jacob reveal in that he's really no different than several characters we've already met who are ageless time/space jumpers who turn up at points during the characters' lives. oh boy, another one!

jaymc how fucking psyched were you to see rose and bernard

rose and bernard out-hippied the hippies man

i just loved that they were like 'oh come on, fuck this shit'

yeah me too, I think that was actually significant.

the flaming arrows sealed the deal for them

I wouldn't mind seeing a Bernard flashback incorporating Perfect Strangers footage showing him as a miserable management type before he met Rose.

lol nobody just "retires" from the island... definitely shades of rousseau, how they evaded encounters with both dharma and the others

then again, the producers do get sick of calling actors back for things, so... also V is probably going to series so chances that Juliet is really dead are high

liked the mirror redshirt deaths, Frogurt vs. Phil

all this crazy, Stand-esque good vs. evil ultimate confrontation for the ages over space and time thing, i'm totally down for this S1-mirroring final S6

was the white flash at the end basically the same kind of flash that occurred when they time jumped earlier in the season?

It was the same color, but I think that's all we know for sure.

I doubt Sayid is dead but I think Juliet probably is.

I'm just the opposite here, but with no rational reason for being so. There's no way all of the characters present at the Incident are going to be killed out of the show by the bomb, so it's a matter of whether they die or not from the injuries they sustained before it went off: Sayid being gutshot vs. Juliet having massive internal injuries from falling...how far down was the hole, 60 ft? Seems like they said the distance at some point. It would be a nice concession to common sense for both of them to be gone next season.

was trying hard to remember where i'd seen jacob recently. i think it's cuz he was rita's creepy convict husband on Dexter.

I missed the first five minutes of this episode where they reveal that he is Jacob, so when he started showing up at random times in the 815ers' pasts, I was thinking "I know Lost has shown us this guy before, but when??" Racked my brain for a while before realizing Jacob was shown on a different show.

jaymc how fucking psyched were you to see rose and bernard

Haha, the one spoiler I grant myself is the ABC press release for the following week's show, so I knew in advance that they were going to show up.

i imagine you doing a fist clench at their appearance

"YES!!"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sobek

dear people with office jobs who are probably watching this on abc's website at work right now and making it impossible to load abc's streaming video player,

stop it and get some work done. please. thx.

titus esau welliver

I don't have enough Biblical knowledge to really get a handle on the Esau concept - the first thing I thought of was Cain and Abel in the DC 'House of Mystery' comics, in which Cain would kill Abel over and over again - timeless antagonists. They showed up in Gaiman's Sandman as well as Moore's Swamp Thing.

i just loved that they were like 'oh come on, fuck this shit'

That was their redemption - I saw it as that Buddhist idea of exiting the wheel of rebirth. Though I was totally off base thinking Locke was out to kill the idea of Jacob rather than Jacob himself, so ...

The running theory around the internet seems to be that Locke is now the Man in Black, but if that's the case, why would Jacob heal him younger Locke and help him on his journey?

Present-day Jacob is hanging out in the shadows, and whatever was confined to the circle of ash and Jacob's cabin is no longer there. Seems just as likely to me that Locke is actually Jacob, and shapeshifter-Jacob is actually the man in black.

Doesn't seem like real Jacob would be so mean to Ben, imo.

-him

[i]why would Jacob heal him younger Locke and help him on his journey?<i/>

When did this happen? Widmore and Abbadon helped out Locke, as far as I can recall. I think Jacob was invested in keeping Locke alive, whereas Titus was out to have him end up dead so he could serve as host ...

When did this happen? Widmore and Abbadon helped out Locke, as far as I can recall.

Locke fell out of a window, and was seemingly dead on the ground. Jacob was reading Flannery O'Connor. Jacob walked over and touched John on the shoulder, and his eyes opened immediately.

The Black Swan Theory as coined by Nassim Nicholas Taleb refers to an event in history that might by it's sheer unlikeliness change the course of history, and might come as a surprise even though in hindsight, it all appears to be plausible and foreseeable. The unlikely events during The Incident, the name of the site being The Swan and the surprising (in an empirical sense) change of the title card from black to white echo these assumptions. See also the related black swan problem and it's application in everyday science.

Locke fell out of a window, and was seemingly dead on the ground. Jacob was reading Flannery O'Connor. Jacob walked over and touched John on the shoulder, and his eyes opened immediately.

Oh, I see - I didn't see that as Locke being healed but just as being visited. My takeaway was that Locke would have lived regardless.

EW recap is great, agreed.

Really think Sobek is important:

Sobek's ambiguous nature led some Egyptians to believe that he was a repairer of evil that had been done, rather than a force for good in itself, for example, going to Duat to restore damage done to the dead as a result of their form of death.

Oh, I see - I didn't see that as Locke being healed but just as being visited. My takeaway was that Locke would have lived regardless.

Probably right, but it seemed to me like life flowed into his face when he was touched.

I was kinda grossed by the glass stuck into Locke's face - ouch

An aside - regarding Ben and Locke's original meeting with "Jacob", remember that at that point Locke came in, and broke the ash circle surrounding the cabin, freeing Esau/Anti-Jacob/Cain/Jacob's enemy. Ben had never actually met Jacob, so this was probably Esau all along. When the Shadow of the Statue crew went to the cabin, perhaps they weren't looking for Jacob after all, since they probably realized by then that Zombie Locke was Esau in disguise, they looked ready for a fight (with a trapped demigod?).

The next appearance for Locke at Jacob's cabin was motivated by Locke meeting ghost-Horace in a dream. Another point likely to be for Esau, since he's the one who's been impersonating dead people all along... Interesting though the implication there that the cabin is more recent and was built by Horace for his family in the Dharma times - compare this to the statue home which seems to have been there for thousands of years.

Locke was definitely healed by Jacob, I think - they're remarked earlier this year (or last) how miraculous it was that he survived an 8-story fall. Also his suddenly shock and waking after being touched by Jacob... seems like divine healing.

i could have done with another big reveal at the end honestly dudes

i mean the bomb going off is still an "is it or isn't it" plot point so the fact that it DID go off is ambiguous

You guys may be right about Jacob healing Locke - it's weird to have healed Locke and killed Nadia though!

Jacob isn't concerned with saving lives, he's concerned with keeping his players in movement toward whatever end he has planned for them, aka "progress"

xp up a bit - There was some big talk in the episode where we saw him fall from the doctors about how miraculous it was that he survived at all, to be fair..

xp Nhex - that's what I was thinking. They were chasing Esau all along.

that wiki entry on Sobek is really thought-provoking, thanks.

Some guy says:

So the Ajira people are allies of Jacob, and therefore allies of The Others. So when they approached Miles about not getting aboard the boat that Widmore hired him to be on, then that means Widmore is their enemy. It stands to reason that Widmore could really be working for Facob since being ousted as leader of The Others. Both Jacob and Facob wanted to ensure that all of the key players return to the island. Widmore's intentions have never been very clear, but now it seems like he's aligned himself with Facob. Facob/Christian sent Locke to turn the donkey wheel, which Widmore was waiting for with his camera setup. Then Widmore convinces Locke to bring the O6 back together, and that ultimately leads to Locke's death, which we see now is part of Facob's master plan to manipulate Ben. Widmore also shares the same rule about not being able to kill his enemy Ben just like Jacob/Facob, but they also have their own loophole to exploit (killing their children.)

(a different topic)

I really think the "loophole" doesn't refer to time at all. If the writers did any 12 Monkeys bullshit than the viewers would be pissed to death. So either the atomic bomb doesn't kill everybody (since it's just the core or whatever) or the plane never crashes but they have to go to the island anyways.

The actual loophole that Jacob and Titus we're talking about must be something about themselves and why Jacob couldn't be killed until now. I couldn't help but think about the movie Dogma when the loophole was mentioned.

So what exactly do you guys think happened to Ben in the temple? Do you think it was just a generic "becoming an other" scenario, or something more specific and important? He is a death dealer, that much is certain. Jacob is not the first person he's attempted to kill, and that was not part of his character before the temple.

Another post:

Someone posted a theory that Evil Jacob tried the same thing with Eko, but when Eko refused to confess he realized he wouldn't be able to trick him, so he just killed him. If that was the (writers') plan from the beginning, I'll be really impressed.

Might be a good time to ponder black and white:

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Black_and_white

# Contrary to everyones beliefs, Rose's husband Bernard is not black, heightening the black & white pairing in the situation.

At first I was like wha, then I remembered that Bernard was with the Tailies and not revealed until S2.

So what exactly do you guys think happened to Ben in the temple?

My guess is that we'll see that temple ceremony in S6 - the hold that Jacob has over people is pretty profound, and the audience hasn't seen how he establishes it. I would imagine you're healed from whatever ails you and the fear of god is put into you so that you follow Jacob's every word. Much like Locke developing a total trust in the island once he's able to walk again. Do you think Ben's initiation would differ other than the memory wipe to deal with his being shot by Sayid?

was the white flash at the end basically the same kind of flash that occurred when they time jumped earlier in the season?
― peter in montreal, Thursday, May 14, 2009 3:48 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

That would be a good plot twist, much better than some repeating time loop crap. I'm convinced there will be no time loop. That whole loophole that Titus (Facob) and Jacob had mentioned must be something totally original that we'll find out next season.

disappointed that jacob is so rubbish and him meeting everyone in the past was rubbish too

did he kill nadia or save sayid?

kept being distracted by the wee stupid pocket on fake locke's t-shirt whenever it was visible and even sometimes when it wasn't

Saving Nadia would've been as simple as getting their attention slightly earlier.

did he kill nadia or save sayid?

Yes.

Also, I know it was mainly because of backpack straps, but Locke has grown himself a nice pair of man boobs.

I noticed that too. I ruined a good 2 minutes of the episode for myself because I was engaged in some weird imagined hypothetical conversation between the producers of Lost and the guy who plays Locke, where he wants to shrink his manboobs a little bit by working out but the producers demand that he stay the same weight so that his character looks the same from season to season. Eventually they compromise that he'll keep the manboobs but will get to wear clothing that doesn't showcase them so much. But then the costume director is sick one week and the guy who plays Locke has to wear a relatively tight t-shirt, and there's nothing he can do about it since the whole deal is only between him, the producers and the costume director.

Meanwhile nukes are blowing up and Jack's getting kicked in the nuts.