"I Hope You're Happy Now, Jacob"--The LOST Season 5 Thread

but locke is dead, the locke of last few eps is just a host

A friend of mine has started calling Titus "Esau," since LOST is overflowing with biblical nods. Jacob & Esau being duelling (twin) brothers and all...

explosion of the bomb will change that. locke will not be dead next season.

there's always two people fighting for control over the island.

Jacob/other dude
Eloise/Widmore
Widmore/Ben
Ben/Locke
Locke/Jack (surely)

explosion of bomb will change whatever they need to change

Jacob: "They're coming"

"They" could be the shadow of the statue folk. but maybe he meant the 1977-ers were coming back.

who tf are the shadow of the statue folk anyways - people jacobs been cultivating off island or what

ilana already knew who jacob was

obvs we will find out why she was a mummy next season

I actually fast forwarded Sun and Jin's fucking wedding vows...

I'm not convinced that Smokey and Fake Locke are the same person (although I think it's obv that Fake Locke, Fake Christian and Fake Alex are the same person); Smokey may well be a non-sentient entity controlled by Fake X.

I guess my question is, were the Losties sent to the island to help kill Jacob or to deal with something else? Also, if Fake Locke is tied to the island, why did Jacob spend all of that time and energy maneuvering ppl onto the island? Given that Fake Locke basically said, "you wouldn't believe all the shit I've done to get to this place", it kind of implies to me that some of the Losties are there because of him; it seems kind of obvious that most of the mindfuck that is Ben's life was geared to make him hate Jacob enough to kill him and several of the Losties are directly responsible for him turning into this person (most notably Locke and Sayid).

The competing priorities here seem to be killing Jacob vs blowing up the hatch; can we trace which of the Jacob visitations set people on paths that led to those events and make any type of deduction on whether the Jacob who spurred those events was the real one?

my brain hurts too much right now to even begin. wtf show.

I'm not convinced that Smokey and Fake Locke are the same person (although I think it's obv that Fake Locke, Fake Christian and Fake Alex are the same person); Smokey may well be a non-sentient entity controlled by Fake X.

biggest sign of a link between all these and Smokey is the french dude, Montand or whatever, getting possessed in the Rousseau flashback. that's enough for me.

but the jacob visitations seem to DETER the losties paths to the island, not LEAD them there

sun and jin's wedding vows were lol because jin was like "i wrote mine down" and then it was literally one sentence! i think you could have memorized one sentence dude

btw, why did Juliet's flashback look like it takes place in the present?

I actually fast forwarded Sun and Jin's fucking

― Local Garda, Thursday, May 14, 2009 12:23 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

whoa uk bonus footage

but the jacob visitations seem to DETER the losties paths to the island, not LEAD them there

Not the ones for Sayid, Locke and Hurley. Sayid was explicitly saved from getting hit by the car that killed his wife, leading to his despair and his working for Ben, that later led to him shooting Ben and sending him to the Others camp. He basically begged Hurley to come back to the island. Locke got brought back to life and was told, "Keep going, it gets better," which basically led to all of the striving for answers he's done in the series and him becoming a thorn in Ben's side.

Kind of makes you wonder what the deal with Hurley is...

btw, why did Juliet's flashback look like it takes place in the present?

― Johnny Fever, Thursday, May 14, 2009 12:29 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

yess i was like what does this modern day scenario have to do w/the show

but the jacob visitations seem to DETER the losties paths to the island, not LEAD them there

hard to say I think, jacob does seem to want people to come to the island though.

x-post whoa uk bonus footage

it was only about 4 seconds or so...prob not jin's fault, do you know how tough working for her dad is? christ give him a break.

xopst Yeah, her parents looked like 90s parents.

Maybe she is secretly 24 years old.

L O S T!

jacob's visits actually were a kind of pointless source of questions

biggest sign of a link between all these and Smokey is the french dude, Montand or whatever, getting possessed in the Rousseau flashback.

Montand wasn't like FakeAlex or FakeChristian though, he wasn't an apparition. He had a body and could be killed. He had just changed, maybe more like how Ben was taken to the temple and became an Other forever?

Following my theory, I think it is wholly unambiguous that Jacob talked to Alanna in order to get her to reveal Locke's body. I think it is also unambiguous that Sayid was saved so that he could shoot Ben and help turn him into a pawn. It's tenuous that Locke was saved so that a host could be prepared who could control the Others and get close enough to Jacob to have him killed. Kate, Sawyer and Jack were all visited at character-defining moments and given advice that pushed them in a particular direction, a direction reflected in the way they developed and changed on the island that played out in their decision to detonate the bomb. Jin and Sun's visit seems to have been meant to reinforce their desire to seek each other out; in Jin's case, it pushed him towards helping to detonate the bomb, whereas for Sun it pushed her towards helping fake Locke. We don't know what Hurley's visit did other than put him back with his Lostie friends.

There's some two-sides-same-coin shit going on here, I think.

Didn't he fall down the hole though? His body could have been down there. It's possible you could still kill the apparition.

The question is I guess, is FakeLocke an apparition?

He's a physical manifestation, but then again so were Christian and Alex.

Illana worked for Jacob - I'm assuming she brought Sayid in under his orders. But i'm not sure she knew about Locke until she found him in the cargo hold and realized that the other Locke walking around was some kind of a threat.

Kate, Sawyer and Jack were all visited at character-defining moments and given advice CANDY BARS that pushed them in a particular direction

― Unclench, y'all, unclench (HI DERE), Thursday, May 14, 2009 12:41 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

OMG!! "Jacob" was one of the goons from the Big Lebowski! The one who shoves the dude's head into the toilet... not the guy who isn't housebroken, sadly. Hahahaha.

If that question upthread about whether or not nu-Locke had ever done anything physical.. Can't recall him touching anyone but he did carry in that big boar

he handed ben a weapon!

Didn't he fall down the hole though? His body could have been down there. It's possible you could still kill the apparition.

yeah but there were also corpses of the other Frenchies (who Danielle killed because she also thought they were "sick") lying around when Jin came by again so I'm not sure they were apparitions, just possessed.

FakeLocke and FakeAlex could touch things but it doesn't seem like they have a body as such.

uh didn't fake alex push ben up against a wall?

yeah that's what i said. she can touch things but her body also disappeared.

"what's in the bahhhxxxx?"

i think locke might even be smokey? they sort of hinted at it when Ben and Sun were waiting for the monster to come out of the bushes but the rustling noise just turned out to be locke. and then he conveniently disappeared while Ben had his little "this is your life" recap.

― Roz, Wednesday, May 13, 2009 1:55 AM (2 days ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

little Kate was so dead-on, btw. The way she held the backpack, the eyeroll.. That actress is incredible!

Actually thought Juliet's sister was Kate for a second and was like OMG THEY'RE SISTERS before my friend was like "uh, no"

better hope nu-Locke is not Smokey, otherwise smokey cannot be revealed as Ian MacShane when he is surely hired fresh from the cancellation of Kings.

Smokey seems to have access to people's memories ... and the apparitions are also manifestations of those memories. So they're related, I think. I think all the apparitions are Smokey to some extent.

little Kate was so dead-on, btw. The way she held the backpack, the eyeroll.. That actress is incredible!
Amazing casting there.

Loved the initial scene - it's like an overture; it makes no sense, but it's crammed with information and themes.

Confused as to why Jacob has a cabin when he's been under the statue this whole time. Was Titus/Esau in there instead?

Jacob's touching the 815/316ers - reminded me of Christian's not touching Locke just before he turned the wheel.

Have to rewatch all the TitusLocke scenes now! Are all the possessions/apparitions Titus? It would seem like it. Titus is evidently looking for someone to kill Jacob for him, since he can't do it (a la Ben not being able to kill Widmore) - so TitusAlex pushes him to it, and Christian tells Locke he has to die to bring the O6 back. Can Titus possess as many dead as are lying around at one time?

anyone find a transcription of the opening scene dialogue online?

so my post got deleted?

d'oh wrong thread :)

a friend of mine just posted some thoughts to his facebook page, it's good stuff:

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=604087574&ref=profile#/note.php?note_id=76640447886&ref=nf

***SPOILER*** if you have not seen the season finale, read no further. also there will be a small spoiler about stephen kings' THE STAND. i'll let ya know when i get there. ****

so, it all comes down to what john locke told walt in season one. the black rock vs. the white rock. good vs. evil. jacob vs. esau. we now have in place the pieces of the final war. we also have the shucking off of the sub-plots that have made the story so mind bending. of course that could be a bad thing for those of us who love that aspect of the LOST game. anyway, some observations.

RELIGION & PHILOSOPHY
we now know why egypt has been so important to the storytelling in lost. the egyptian book of the dead is the foundation of all the worlds dominant religions (i know some will debate its' importance to buddhism but heck, most folks who follow it don't consider buddhism a religion anyway). so, LOST is exploring the very nature of our religious tendencies. jacob as a christ like benevolent god. esau as the serpent. the island the garden of eden (or mu, or atlantis), a place of alchemy where scientific, magical, & spiritual properties co-exist.

the philosophy part is as simple & complex as free will versus pre-determination. jacob placed our heroes in their spots giving them the chance to make the right choices that will lead to their redemption. the choice is always theirs. esau manipulates the weak, seeing the human animal as a fixed system that will always make the same choices over & over again.

WHAT ILANA SAID TO RICHARD ALPERT
"what lies in the shadow of the statue ?"
alpert: "he who will protect/save us"
(thanks to all the latin scholars over at darkufo for that quick translation last night)
so, my take on this is that jacob is not only our heroes redemptive figure, he is humanity's redemptive figure. the island itself is the reset button or lynchpin for the entire world. jacob & esau fight not just for the souls of the castaways but for the fate of the entire world. will humanity break the cycle of constant war or find some form of redemption (what this redemption will look like i'm not sure of yet).

A MAN WHO THOUGHT HE WAS A GOD
eloise, widmore, ben, the so called leaders of the others have all thought themselves masters of the game. they have all tried to take control of the island. they are just wannabes. the chumps in the casino thinking they've got a system, when the house always wins. each was exiled in some manner for their hubris (though we have not witnessed eloise in this manner, so i'll reserve judgement on that one).

and anyone remember wtf was going on with ghost horace last season?

he was in a dream, can't remember whose, building Jacob's cabin. Then he started time looping and got a nosebleed.

That was Locke's dream, pointing him toward the Dharma mass grave, which got him the map that led him to Jacob's cabin. Horace repeated the same action again and again, which foreshadowed the island timeloop I think.

anyone find a transcription of the opening scene dialogue online?

No, I was looking as well because I have trouble hearing Titus' line about finding a loophole/killing Jacob/something about a final duel from the beach.

jacob placed our heroes in their spots giving them the chance to make the right choices that will lead to their redemption. the choice is always theirs. esau manipulates the weak, seeing the human animal as a fixed system that will always make the same choices over & over again.

That's a really nice summation.

lostpedia should have a transcript up soon-ish. just keep checking.

NAMELESS: You're trying to prove me wrong.
JACOB: You are wrong.
NAMELESS: They come, they fight, they destroy, they corrupt. It always ends the same.
JACOB: It can only end once. Everything before that is progress.

The EW recap is very good, btw.