"I Hope You're Happy Now, Jacob"--The LOST Season 5 Thread

ya... i wasn't so into this episode and i feel like they've been trying to shock us with some pretty so-so stuff lately (like how every time whatsherface is mentioend as faraday's mother they make it seem like a big reveal... or the locke time loop which was just lame).. but they've never not really delivered for a finale.

this season on the whole has felt a bit patchy but it also feels like it might be the strongest one just going from episode to episode. i think it'd flow really well if someone was watching this back-to-back on DVD.

start of the season was great as far as I recall. it's a very mixed season thematically though...

s 1 - castaways
s 2 - hatch
s 3 - others
s 4 - freighter
s 5 - time?

how is the "locke time loop" lame? that a character is revealed to be possibly manufacturing his own future is lame?

ya exactly

the entire plot device of dropping them into different times makes more sense now though, they definitely were not randomly being sent places, i think the island was putting them where they needed to be in the island's history to "fix" or "save" whatever is going to happen in season 6

i don't know if i go for the purposefullness of it but that sounds intriguing.

xpost though i think Locke turning out to have fulfilled his own prophecies is AWESOME, one of the best aspects of S5! just like how jumping around and ending up in the 50's, lock approaches the others' camp telling richard that jacob sent him and that he's their leader in 50 years, so that in 50 years richard automatically recognizes him as the leader...that's not lame, that's fantastic!

and then it turns out that locke becoming leader might in fact be a total mistake?

right

the real jacob:
http://www.bengarvey.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/ira.jpg

LOST = very long episode of this american life.

no no no, there's a reason he was brought back to life and there is reason he is doing what he is doing.

it's no mistake. the island brought him back to life from the dead and gave him all this knowledge - it's definitely all for a reason. is "the island" actually good or evil, well, i guess we'll find out next year!

and then it turns out that locke becoming leader might in fact be a total mistake?

― Roz, Sunday, May 10, 2009 8:52 AM (8 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

No I think there really might be something to this. It feels like the show's building to a reveal w/ the Others's relationship to the Island. It's a mistake from the viewpoint of Ben or Richard.

Y'know, maybe.

I like the idea that Locke saying he wants to 'kill Jacob' is a little like saying 'kill the Buddha', meaning that blind obedience to Jacob (or the idea of Jacob) is mistaken, and Locke wants to show the Others that Jacob's a paper tiger rather than murder anyone.

Can't square the Richard who hands Locke the Sawyer file, telling him the Others are ready for leadership that elevates their mission, and the Richard that seems unsure and confused by Locke's actions. For such a (mythologically) central character, he's completely opaque, I have no idea what his deal is. As an immortal consigliere, he's impartial, but he also has really strong opinions about what can't or shouldn't be done.

Loving the show suggesting that Locke engineered his own installation as leader. It's a little like the compass - where did it come from originally? The idea of Locke as leader - where did that come from? From Locke's own need to find a purpose in life. The compass is an idea that is looking for a means of expression, the same as the idea of Locke as leader of men.

Reading back over this post it seems really overwrought but one of the things I love about the show is following these little philosophical threads.

It's strange that not that long ago the Others were a bunch of mysterious and terrifying jungle ninjas and now they're a bunch of cannon-fodder extras standing on a beach waiting to be told where to go.

when Richard told Sun he watched them all die, was that a memory that had only recently been inserted, something he'd always remembered or (unlikely) just a lie?

also thinking Bram and Ilana's people must've engineered the Ajira flight to a fair extent. not sure if this includes making sure Frank was the pilot and pulling strings to get ALL of the O6 (- Aaron + Ben) on board. looking fwd to whatever new thing we see being set up for final season but seems likely to involve them?

when Richard told Sun he watched them all die, was that a memory that had only recently been inserted, something he'd always remembered or (unlikely) just a lie?

I have a feeling this translates into 'I watched them all walk into the Swan which blew up moments later'. No chance are all the show leads going to be eliminated before the end of the show.

also thinking Bram and Ilana's people must've engineered the Ajira flight to a fair extent.

It's odd to off Caesar just as we were starting to wonder what his agenda was.

xp well Richard did watch them all die in the purge, pehaps he just didn't single out the oceanic six in the photo? it seems he doesn't have any greater knowledge of who is who, except Locke obviously.

me and my bro put together a little lost playlist, feel free to add! spotify:user:sonderangerbot:playlist:71BIQNLVcwwEl9JvnABT00

uhm, this then http://open.spotify.com/user/sonderangerbot/playlist/71BIQNLVcwwEl9JvnABT00

read this for a very comprehensive recap by the elusive vozzek69 :

http://darkufo.blogspot.com/2009/05/things-i-noticed-follow-leader-by.html

t seems he doesn't have any greater knowledge of who is who, except Locke obviously.

Way back (S3?) he gave Locke that file on Sawyer which makes me think he probably had access to the rest.

Well, Richard knows who Jack and Kate are, since they went with him to find Jughead.

LOVING the Locke theories here. I still feel that the show would benefit from having all the characters in the same time and place from now on (like, actually getting to see most of them for one thing) but hopefully it'll all become clear in the final. I think the lack of an identifiable centre for all the characters (beach/hatch/war with the Others/getting off the island) has kind of made the show seem a bit unstructured and all-over-the-place as Ronan says.

We know less about Richard than any other character on the show, that's what makes him so fascinating. Although I am wondering exactly what the point of Frank has been in this series, other than him just being cool.

Anyone want to place a bet as to which minute of the finale Rose and Bernard magically reappear? I suppose the only reason they're keeping them around is to show that the normal people don't necessarily have to get fucked over.

My favourite theory about the Locke/Jacob thing is the one upthread that Jacob is actually Jack trapped in the time vortex, and I think he needs Locke to kill him to set him free - hence "help me". The whole of season six is going to centre around the question of who or what is Jacob, and the idea of Jack progressing from atomic bomb blast/The Incident through lots of mysterious Island shit would make a really great premise for S6. Of course it won't actually happen now.

I do feel that there's going to be some kind of reveal on the way about Locke/the island/Jacob that will re-establish some sort of good versus evil theme. Somebody or something is going to be shown to be a sinister force. At least I hope this happens, at the moment it's v hard to say who's doing what or who's right/wrong.

^^^The fun of it right now, but I don't want to see 'em keep that up much longer.

i guess we'll never see confused/low-confidence Locke ever again

I found this interesting:

I'm not sure how or why the bomb got down there, but if it's directly beneath Dharmaville this whole time maybe it explains why Miles' mother seemed to be suffering from some sort of radiation sickness in her later years. She's one of the only Dharma residents who reaches old age anyway, so it's kind of hard to make a comparison.

Let's not forget Ben's tumor.

cryingtom.jpg

I've been trying to think through how much influence the Christian (evil?) entity has had over the events set up over the past two or so seasons.

A. Desmond's vision was of Claire getting on the helicopter with Aaron, not of Kate and Aaron. The change happened because Christian took Claire (The alternate explanation is that she was already dead by Kimmi's team's hands--another death, like Alex's, that wasn't supposed to happen.)

If Sawyer and Miles had not stuck around looking for Claire they would have been back at the beach sooner. I don't know how this would have altered the Byzantine character movements of the SSN 4 finale, but there's a chance some of the O6 would not have ended up leaving the Island.

B. Sun. Sun, Frank & Locke are the only non-relatives who have seen ghost Christian. For some reason Sun was not raptured back to 1977 with the rest of the O5--perhaps because she was "supposed" to get off the Island and not come back. (Locke carrying through with his promise to Jin not to bring her back despite Christian and Alpert (as Locke's mouthpiece) telling him "you have to bring them ALL back" is important.) Perhaps Jin was supposed to get off the island with her or was supposed to die, removing Sun's motivation for returning to the Island. Ben was surprised to hear that Jin was still alive and this seemed to be the moment when he decided to kill Locke (which is just what the Christian entity wanted--so it could possess Locke upon his return to the Island.)

C. Ben & Locke. The Christian entity began the whole self-fulfilling Locke-leader loop by posing (?) as Jacob's rep and telling Locke he had to move the Island. Ben believes this is an order from Jacob & turns the wheel himself, perhaps fouling up Christian's plan a bit (?) Anyway Locke is still on the Island after the time jumping starts which allows him to meet Richard in 1954 and begin the Locke-is-special cycle of events. Did Christian want this to happen? Probably, as it ends up making Locke the leader of the Others after his body's return, therefore making the entity possessing Locke the leader of the Others.

Can't square the Richard who hands Locke the Sawyer file, telling him the Others are ready for leadership that elevates their mission, and the Richard that seems unsure and confused by Locke's actions. For such a (mythologically) central character, he's completely opaque, I have no idea what his deal is. As an immortal consigliere, he's impartial, but he also has really strong opinions about what can't or shouldn't be done.

ya but i get the feeling he's playing dumb a bit, at least in that scene - that there's only so much he can or is "allowed" to interfere

only dead people appear in jacob's place right, except people who just arrive there

also i feel like i have forgotten 90% of what happened in other seasons of this show

yes, assuming that both Claire and Jacob are dead, but that's a big assumption

ya but i get the feeling he's playing dumb a bit, at least in that scene - that there's only so much he can or is "allowed" to interfere

Fair point. Really Alpert being opaque can be put down to the fact that the Others/Jacob's agenda hasn't been talked about at all - there's a ton of info coming next season I'd imagine. The child kidnappings/research, the infertility, how the Others came to be, what the heck goes on in the Temple, the statue, whether they're the 'guardians of the timeloop', etc etc etc.

I've been trying to think through how much influence the Christian (evil?) entity has had over the events set up over the past two or so seasons.

Oh man, I hadn't even thought about him, now I have to do the same thing and revisit his scenes - I just lumped him in with Lemi or any other spooky vaguely threatening island dead guy standing in for 'the voice of the island'. It seems like Locke's become one of those, maybe. I had this idea that all the SVTIDGs were trapped in an island time loop in which they're quasi-real, including Jacob. The dead guys all seemed to be reactivated memories (a la Solaris), but they have physical reality (Charlie slaps Hurley) except when they don't (Christian can't or won't touch Locke) or only barely (Jacob can influence objects but not appear himself). My head hurts now.

I'm not sure how or why the bomb got down there, but if it's directly beneath Dharmaville this whole time

For a minute I thought this neatly explained the infertility, but then I remembered it doesn't explain the higher sperm count (I sound like I work for the CDC). In a 'timeless' place you'd imagine that your reproductive cycle would bet out of whack - I was wondering if you aged at all on the island, but Widmore obviously has.

i guess we'll never see confused/low-confidence Locke ever again

I started rewatching the show over the past couple of months and the change in Locke is pretty remarkable, when you consider how many scenes he was in being completely distraught over not knowing what the hell was going on or what he was meant to do. Fantastic acting job there, and I loved revisiting confused Locke in this last ep just to remind people.

that profile we saw of jacob reallllly looks like locke to me now

Pretty much the first hint of pre-destiny I can remember in the show was the fake psychic back in S1 who said to Claire "you have to get on this exact plane".

I agree with anyone who suggested Locke might be a sort of hollow Christian/Yemi/French dude type host for Smokey/Jacob. Would seem to make sense.

that profile we saw of jacob reallllly looks like locke to me now

doesn't he have kind of curly hair? not like locke's combover.

when did we see a jacob profile?

http://images.fanpop.com/images/image_uploads/Jacob-lost-34938_476_585.jpg

season 3, "The Man Behind the Curtain" - first ben flashback episode.

^^ the show's propmaster, who i'm guessing won't turn up playing a physical manifestation of Jacob on any regular basis

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/lostpedia/images/thumb/c/c4/Rob_Kyker.jpg/180px-Rob_Kyker.jpg

Why do that when you can put a wig and fake beard on Brian Posehn.

lol - Brian Posehn would be genius casting for Jacob, but I don't think the Lost producers are really capable of pulling off something that inspired. I'm cracking up just picturing it though. Locke, Ben and Alpert walk into the cabin, and there's Posehn sitting there with a goofy smile on his face, acting basically like the same character he plays on the Sarah Silverman show.

can't believe we're already up to the finale

it's sad
when will season 6 start? january?

January... 1977.

i shall bet the Cowboys next Superbowl

Jacob is BOB