"I Hope You're Happy Now, Jacob"--The LOST Season 5 Thread

(It gets into some hairy back to the future nonsense, but it's established by the show's logic that you can change things now, so I THINK that's how it's supposed to work.)

Can they actually change things, though? It makes me think back to Desmond's whole trip to LA in 2007. Did that actually accomplish anything besides Ben getting his ass kicked before taking the plane back? Locke, Eloise and Ben were already making plans to go back, all of this would have happened even if Desmond was taken out of the equation. That said, I think whatever happened to Desmond this season will have some effect next year, but whatever he did certainly didn't help save the island folks.

Hold Steady gig was season 2?

xposts Poor Des wouldn't even have Penny to rescue him since they would be blowing up her father!

But then he wouldn't be sailing at all! So. He'd just be a drunk back in Scotland?

xpost--Faraday seemed to *think* they could change things, anyway. ("I was so focused on the *science word you sorta remember from junior high* that I forgot about the *other science word you sorta remember from junior high*!!")

and then they proved him wrong by having his own mother shoot him despite his best intentions.

Does that prove him wrong? Jack has his notebook, they're still interested in setting off the bomb. The show left us hangin there.

penny could've been born off-island by 1977? although i guess then her dad wouldn't be a billionaire and she wouldn't be at the church to meet desmond anyway.

gah too many paradoxes.... i just don't see how they can pull off this "change your destiny" thing, so i say they the time loop remains. That's their destiny and jack has gotta learn not to fight it sometime.

the promo for the next ep seems to imply that jack and kate argue over whether they should set off the bomb or not.

Plus if her dad is dead then he can't sponsor that round-the-world race...isn't that how/why Des wound up crashing/got a sail boat? I think?

Yeah I think the time loop is going to remain, we have a whole next season to get through, so they're not going to wipe it all out at this point. I think they're trying to keep us guessing as to whether you can actually change things, but whatever the case, how this show works there could be like, SOMETHING, ANYTHING, happening and like, they wind up in 2007 again, who knows. We still have Locke and Sun in 'present' times trying to get to Jack / Jin etc (or trying to get Jack / Jin etc 'back' to them)...speculation is fun but I feel like it could totally go anywhere right now.

(what in the hell did I just type?!?!)

Oh good, more Jack / Kate dynamic :( xpost

yeah. although i hope that means less of them during the finale itself.

I think the "incident" will send Jack/Kate/Miles/etc back... to the future. And then season six can be about the shadow people, Christian and Claire Shepherd.

Haha, yeah that does seem most likely. They better deal with the smoke monster more, too. With every new episode, the entire time in the back of my mind, I'm going "YOU CAN NOT SHOW ME HIEROGLYPHS OF THE SMOKE MONSTER STANDING IN JUDGMENT OF OF ANUBIS AND NOT EXPLAIN YOURSELF DUDE"

guys the bomb is not going to go off

Yeah I think the time loop is going to remain,

needs more hot ghost claire

Uh, I don't think Faraday is considering detonating the atomic bomb in order to kill everyone on it. In made-up bad science presumably the bomb is intended to cancel out the effect of The Incident, whatever that is. Or maybe stop everything from happening.

I still the think the bomb is eventually detonated when Desmond turns the failsafe key. They're going to have to explain that bit somehow.

The whole idea of setting off an h-bomb to fix an otherwise even worse situation sounds fucked up to me. I hope they get up close to the edge but don't actually do it -- it would be a shark-jumpy moment for me.

Yeah Matt otm. I figured there was some cod science on the way that'd say the bomb cancels out the electro-magnetic brou-ha-ha.

I mean have you guys never played Incident-H-Bomb-Scissors before?

worst line in this episode was when daniels mom was like "you dont have enough time" and then he was like "but i can make time"

liked the way dan and his mother were AVIN AN OLD FASHIONED BRITISH CURRY at like fucking midday

but i can go back in time

but maybe when i grow up i can become deeply involved in some kind of experimentation with time

liked the way dan and his mother were AVIN AN OLD FASHIONED BRITISH CURRY at like fucking midday

― Local Garda, Tuesday, May 5, 2009 4:06 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

they probably traveled in time to suppertime

they get thrown forward to 2057 where you can actually now have lobsters on the pier in London cos of climate change. Penny knew this of course.

but i can make curry

mrs faraday can make supper

lol x-post

megaxposts

That everyone would die isn't really the purpose of detonating the hydrogen bomb, it's just incidental. I'm guessing that's why he urged Myles' dad to evacuate the island. I think the idea is that in detonating the bomb The Incident is prevented/negated (I'm not sure there's science mumbo jumbo here, just KABLOOEY), which means no button, which means 815 never crashes. Also, if what Desmond did was detonated an H-bomb (which=atom bomb X 1000 or something?) I'd be seriously WTFing that everybody on the beach (and probably the rest of the island?) survived.

OTM re: sharkjumping. But I'm pretty sure they're not gonna blow up the island that the entire show is based on.

ya then they'd have to change the name of the show to just "lost"!

?

i thought it was a bit silly that Chang was so quick to dismiss Daniel's story considering he is already intent on manipulating time himself so has surely envisaged a situation where he might travel back in time himself and tell someone he's from the future. presumably he will soon accept that Miles is his son anyway.

?

― SQUIRREL WITH A PEOPLE FACE (╓abies), Tuesday, May 5, 2009 4:24 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

from "lost on an island"

Haha, um...oh!

I thought that, too, blueski. But guessed we're just meant to go "he is being an asshole which is in character".

one thing is puzzling me right now. in "Jughead", during 1954, after the flaming arrow attack, Ellie takes Miles, Daniel, etc. prisoner. She then says directly to Daniel "you just couldn't stay away, could you?" was this a fake-out? does she think he's US Army at this point, hence her reference? or did she meet him at some point even earlier that we haven't seen yet?

It's not clear if she remembers the 1954 meeting in '77 but I would imagine she does.

I'd still like to figure out where that video that was shown at Comic Con fits into this - the one where Pierre has spoken to Daniel (you can hear his voice in the background!) and is saying "I know that there is going to be an incident, btw Daniel also mentioned the internet and other neat stuff from the future" because he quite clearly didn't manage to convince Chang before he "died." One could argue that that indicates Daniel *did* change the past, but then, most of Lost's viewers didn't see the Comic Con video anyway :P

yeah i don't think that video really means anything - all that extra stuff are more promotional than canon.

Also, I think it was Miles behind the camera, not Daniel. Especially now Daniel's dead.

maybe Island will heal Daniel, Locke-style, and make him speak less breathily.

blueski: Chang (and Daniel originally) seem to have this pretty clear cut theory about time, that it cannot be changed, and past events are set in stone (and it feels like the show is going to stick with this). So why would anyone travel to the past to try to change it? Then again it's not really clear at all why Chang/Dharma are there besides ominous "research", we don't know if they ever had a specific goal in researching the island - eternal life, manipulating space and time for transport, who knows...

Daniel's probably dead but we've still got three hours left in the season, so we'll see...

sleeve: I think it was just a viewer fakeout - in the episode itself it's clear Ellie/the Others believed they were more US army forces from the same group was doing the H-bomb testing. Maybe she remembers him, maybe not, but she only saw him for a few hours over 20 years in the past, so it's quite possible she (or even Alpert) doesn't remember him.

JimD: Sounds right, didn't think about that it could be Miles.

we know Chang is trying to harness the electro-magnetic power to control time, as he said to the random drill guy. if he believes time can't be changed (not sure where you got this from) what does he want with the time-controllable powers?

He says it in that scene! Pierre lectures one of the construction crew at The Swan about how laws cannot be broken and time can't be changed - this was in response to the guy asking if they could go back in time and kill Hitler.

So what does he want with time powers, or how can he manipulate time if history can't be changed? The only possibility I can think of is by gleaming information from the future of "past events" the way Widmore/Ben/Eloise have, but even then what's the point, since they know they can't change history either?

dudes. he wants to see a dinosaur. why is that hard to understand.

i thought he was suggesting some things can be changed and some can't. or maybe he just loves Hitler.

he wants to make sure no one goes back in time and kills hitler.

Adolf "Jacob" Hitler

at one point they do mention jacob is a failed painter, right?

I'm trying to remember what an atomic bomb was doing just sitting in the middle of the island in the first place.

I don't know that they explained it exactly but the hostiles seemed concerned, it was implied to have been left by the US Armed Forces that had been on the island..

So the next episode is Follow The Leader - hopefully this means we finally get to see Locke in 2007 hanging as King Other.

do none of you slavishly watch the sneak previews? there are 6 for tonight's episode!

FFM, that seems right. I would guess secret testing of their new weapon? Island is remote, almost no one knows it exists, and say if you do it's nearly impossible to find. Were their motives discussed at all?

Chang (and Daniel originally) seem to have this pretty clear cut theory about time, that it cannot be changed

I'm still guessing on this. Daniel has some science that Chang doesn't, so...I just don't know.
Some good ideas re: Chang's motives. I still wonder how much the Dharma really know about island, what that might reveal about their work there. Or maybe it's purely in the interest of science...