finally got around to this, it was good. The ancillary action movie stuff that was added to the story for necessary cinematic/dramatic forward motion was all handled p well and didn't get in the way of the central story's focus on language, character, time + free will etc.
― Οὖτις, Monday, 8 May 2017 17:59 (seven years ago) link
move to dispute utterly your 'necessary' tbh that stuff is p much always an admission of failure or at very least lack of confidence in ability to convey an adult drama
― spud called maris (darraghmac), Monday, 8 May 2017 22:29 (seven years ago) link
it would be a v different movie w out that stuff, but given how this movie got made - as a big studio summer sci-fi blockbuster - the attendant action-movie scaffolding was integrated as well as it could be imo.
The story/source material doesn't really have a film-able three-act structure, so afaict the director's choices were either to make something that no one would pay to see that would probably be a v frustrating viewing experience that was nonetheless v true to the source material, or to modify the source material as necessary to make it into a cohesive filmed narrative. They went with the latter route.
― Οὖτις, Monday, 8 May 2017 22:39 (seven years ago) link
Bear in mind I said from the beginning that adapting this story seemed like an insane/unnecessary undertaking, so when it turns out as well as it did I consider it a minor miracle.
reject assumption of necessity of three act and presumption of audience requirements too
just cos
― spud called maris (darraghmac), Monday, 8 May 2017 22:41 (seven years ago) link
xp oh yeah look i liked it just fine
this is probably the best movie i've seen in ages - but i was really stoned when i saw it, and i'm also really interested in sapir-whorf hypothesis type of stuff. babel-17 by samuel delaney is great if the language stuff is of interest to you.
― just1n3, Tuesday, 9 May 2017 05:21 (seven years ago) link
speaking of unfilmable writers
― mh, Tuesday, 9 May 2017 13:53 (seven years ago) link
I wanted to like Babel 17, I really did
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 9 May 2017 16:01 (seven years ago) link
I'm not sure I would have liked it if I'd read out of the blue, but it was a part of a lit class I took (we did the crying of lot 49, burning chrome, snow crash, Fahrenheit 451, and we watched blade runner - it was one of the most interesting classes I had).
― just1n3, Tuesday, 9 May 2017 17:31 (seven years ago) link
is there a thread for Prisoners?
i loved most other Villeneuve movies I have seen but holy christ on a bike not even beautiful cinematography or decent performances could save this. All hat and no cowboy. For me it was a Rube-Goldbergian nothing of a story.
― Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 12 March 2018 03:15 (six years ago) link
Very good, almost great cast, put to absolute waste Just had a thought that maybe, maybe, villeneuve’s fascination with anti-stories that only sort of resolve b-plot bullshit none of his audiences care about (while making you feel a bit like a sap for caring about plots a & c) could actually make his Dune treatment interesting
― El Tomboto, Monday, 12 March 2018 04:55 (six years ago) link
That script was like a halfassed “Who Took Johnny” fanfic that felt like maybe there might have been the kernel of a good story in there but it was so buried!! (no pun intended). I mean jeez if you are going to wade into that water don’t piss around with a bunch of handwaving. If you’re gonna go there GO there. The storytelling was so indirect and tentative and crammed with faux-complexity, and everyone just endlessly reacting. Whole movie was just v annoying for me overall.
― Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 12 March 2018 05:58 (six years ago) link
i loved Prisoners - it was like an R-rated beautifully shot Law & Order episode
― Nhex, Monday, 12 March 2018 06:39 (six years ago) link
Nhex's description is the first one that makes me want to see it
I rewatched Sicario and it's about 2/3rds of a plot with amazing cinematography and sound. I wonder what kind of deal Villeneuve has to get Deakins to keep working with him
― mh, Monday, 12 March 2018 14:19 (six years ago) link
prisoners is horrible and stupid
― the clodding of the american mind (darraghmac), Monday, 12 March 2018 14:21 (six years ago) link
All hat and no cowboy.
this is a wonderful phrase btw
― I’m 16 and a member of UKIP’s youth wing, young independence (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 12 March 2018 14:25 (six years ago) link
mh review of sicario otm nb everyone should still see it
― the clodding of the american mind (darraghmac), Monday, 12 March 2018 14:36 (six years ago) link
I have bumped the sicario thread for all sicario-related musings
― mh, Monday, 12 March 2018 14:50 (six years ago) link
the first reason it’s not like a L&O episode is the cop has no partner ;_; everyone needs a Lenny
― Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 12 March 2018 17:28 (six years ago) link
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d1/15/30/d1153042dd94e86c6efb8d60c05fb335.jpg
― Millennial Whoop, wanna fight about it? (Phil D.), Monday, 12 March 2018 17:55 (six years ago) link
well, not EVERYone
― Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 12 March 2018 18:31 (six years ago) link
Prisoners also gets points for - less than, but like Nightcrawler - actually using Jake Gyllenhaal as a straight-up weirdo, as is his natural state
― Nhex, Monday, 12 March 2018 19:39 (six years ago) link
he is good in it tbf
― the clodding of the american mind (darraghmac), Monday, 12 March 2018 19:46 (six years ago) link
he is so ripped! he behaves nothing like a cop really at all, ever, in this movie but he’s jake and i love himand i love his blinky facial tic, it’s so weird
― Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 12 March 2018 20:53 (six years ago) link
i get the impression that the script was like 2 hours longer & so they were just like, you know i think we’re good, ppl got the gist
― Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 12 March 2018 20:54 (six years ago) link
I just watched Arrival! The sense of the mystery unfurling was a thrilling sensation.
I've read that Sapir-Whorf isn't en vogue among linguists nowadays, but I think it's a useful analogue to understand how Heptapod can change Louise's perception of time. Hand-wavey to be sure, but imo that's the acceptable fiction half of science fiction.
The ancillary action movie stuff that was added to the story for necessary cinematic/dramatic forward motion was all handled p well and didn't get in the way of the central story's focus on language, character, time + free will etc.
I'm wondering if the actiony military stuff is handled in the same way that Children of Men depicts the disintegration of civil institutions -- a lot of the indications of either of these things are pushed to the periphery, either in the mise en scene itself or showing only part of its narrative.
― MarmiteGrrrl (Leee), Monday, 12 March 2018 23:07 (six years ago) link
Haven't seen it. But for linguists Sapir-Whorf isn't just out of vogue, it's completely discredited but frustratingly fascinating to non-linguists, apparently. One of the reasons it's nonsense is that it implies that speakers of other languages are so different in their thoughts as to be completely unable to understand each other, so it may work for aliens, but I don't know if I can bear to hear about it again.
― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Monday, 12 March 2018 23:18 (six years ago) link
My recollection is that it’s not presented as valid in the film! It’s just an idea to serve as a reference for what happens later.
― Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, 13 March 2018 00:29 (six years ago) link
https://i.imgur.com/pkpIc9Y.png
― Philip Nunez, Tuesday, 13 March 2018 00:33 (six years ago) link
I don't get the impression Sapir Whorf is completely dead. I think there's been a swing away from Chomsky and there are some researchers interested in a kind of weak Sapir-Whorf hypothesis, for things like colour perception. And there's work on how people who speak sign language have quite differently wired brains etc.
Here's one researcher: https://alumni.stanford.edu/get/page/magazine/article/?article_id=29489
― Zelda Zonk, Tuesday, 13 March 2018 00:49 (six years ago) link
i don't think I saw prisoners but I really liked Enemy a lot.
― akm, Tuesday, 13 March 2018 01:26 (six years ago) link
― Nhex, Monday, 12 March 2018 06:39 (five years ago)
I thought it was fantastic too. Probably the best film I've seen by him (not interested enough to see all his films).
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Monday, 21 August 2023 16:15 (nine months ago) link
apologies for returning to the original thread topic (Arrival, 2016) but this film has kind of a pro-life subtext that I found a little heavy-handed... or am i projecting?
― citation needed (Steve Shasta), Wednesday, 6 September 2023 05:12 (nine months ago) link
hmm it might be tempting to read it that way but that was not how I saw it at all.
her husband eventually leaves her for going ahead with the pregnancy despite knowing what she knows - the movie/story doesn't judge him for it, and neither does she because it's perfectly understandable to not want a child that you know is going to die. but also his reaction was all pre-determined anyway. she goes ahead with it because she *doesn't* have a choice, all she can do is decide whether to embrace the future based on the knowledge gained. i don't think this necessarily means it's pro-life though.
― Roz, Wednesday, 6 September 2023 08:04 (nine months ago) link
im sure if i watched again it would support that reading but thats in no way to say it still wouldnt be projecting tbh
― close encounters of the third knid (darraghmac), Wednesday, 6 September 2023 08:47 (nine months ago) link
wearing my schrodingers hat there
― close encounters of the third knid (darraghmac), Wednesday, 6 September 2023 08:48 (nine months ago) link
I rewatched this again and was wondering if she would continue to perceive time like the Heptapods, and is she the only one? Cause that shit would be problematic.
― MaresNest, Wednesday, 6 September 2023 10:10 (nine months ago) link