"I Hope You're Happy Now, Jacob"--The LOST Season 5 Thread

you don't HAVE to agree with me, matt DC, but what i'm saying isn't really hard to understand

Oh I agree with you - I didn't really get what you meant from "painting themselves into a corner with the lead characters of seasons 1-3". But it makes sense now.

I think they first started doing this with the Locke and Desmond plotlines in S3 and 4 - characters effectively kicking off their own destiny through some big causality loop. I'm not sure there was even an intractable problem before they introduced time travel into the story.

don't get me wrong i like(d) the daniel faraday character a lot, even though he is quite absurd. but it is pretty weak to drop a new character into season 4 of a series and have the entire storyline rest on his fate. which leaves me very curious what's going to happen with locke.

I don't think Faraday's floundering around is going to do much. The whole "push the button" thing covers part of the science half, but they already have all the shit linked together with the Locke actions and the fact he was visited as a kid.

Biggest Deus Ex so far was Jack etc conveniently being magically transported back to 1977 when everyone else stayed on the plane. I'm not sure there's any way they can explain that away.

I don't have a problem with them giving a newish character a central role in the plot. It's like the Ben thing, they were probably planning to bring a scientists in all along in one way or another. Widmore's arguably as important as anyone right now, but the core of the show is patently going to end up revolving around Jack/Kate/Locke/Ben anyway.

Well, what happened to Jack on the original flight? He woke up in that exact spot both times, right?

I still love this show, but I have this horrible feeling it's all going to come down to http://graphic-engine.swarthmore.edu/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/matrix-architect.jpg

noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

so basically this whole show revolves around daniel faraday

I dunno, I get what you're saying but it only really revolved around him for a couple episodes. now he's delivered the notebook to Jack and it'll be focused on the main players again

I liked that we went back to the bit with Dan crying when he saw the plane crash on TV. So Dan and Penny are half-bro & sis. Wait, do we know who Penny's mum is?
This episode seemed all a bit loose and woolly - stuff we already knew mixed with nonsensical stuff like Dan going into the Others camp. Oh and the 'People are variables because they have free will' = ultimate lame copout. I hate all that shit.

I did have a horrible horrible vision (flashforward?) of them all somehow finally preventing the hatch explosion thing, either intentionally or accidentally due to it being a cause of a different chain of events than what Dan thought, and then them literally all getting off the plane in LA, stretching, and getting on with their lives... but with island sand magically appearing in their shoes... or a plume of smoke wafting around... L O S T

The getting off the plane thing is interesting, because it's not like their lives were whole before the plane crash. Everyone on the plane was trying to get away from something.

Also, did Faraday forget everything he said to Sawyer et al. about how you can't change anything, and how the only person who could was Desmond? He didn't bother to explain why that wasn't true anymore.

maybe they are twins!

He didn't bother to explain why that wasn't true anymore.

no but he did acknowledge he had changed his mind, he said I used to think I couldn't change anything, but now ...

conjoined twins who got separated when one time-traveled while coming out of the womb

but with island sand magically appearing in their shoes

hahaha. final shot: a close up of john locke's white tube socked foot coming out of his sketchers and a bit of sand spills. camera pans up to that shit eating grin he always has and that twinkle of "i know stuff" in his eye

Also, did Faraday forget everything he said to Sawyer et al. about how you can't change anything, and how the only person who could was Desmond? He didn't bother to explain why that wasn't true anymore.

Because he got zing'd on the neck but OMG he'd never had teh SCAR!

I don't think it was a cop-out - I think Dan was wrong about being able to actually change things. Maybe he tried to but ended up bumbling straight into what he was going to do anyway, ie getting shot by his mum. Not to mention trying to save Charlotte, which we already know already happened.

At some point soon younger Ellie has to run into Desmond, because otherwise the first time she sees him will be in the jewellery shop, which wouldn't make much sense.

What I'm really hoping is that after the Incident we come to an end of any events that certain characters (Widmore, Eloise, Richard, Ben, even Jacob) already know are going to happen, and enter into some area of uncertainty--the war between the Shadow of the Statue folk (got to find a better name) and the remnants of the Others or Force Ben and Force Widmore or whoever.

I think you're right about that, hence older Eloise's proclamation that she really didn't know what would happen with Desmond getting shot in 2007. I think it's fair to assume that by the end of this season there won't be any more time traveling back into the past, so the major players won't have all this advance knowledge of what's going to happen.

this episode was ok

also i'm sure somebody has maybe thought of this but what if jack kate richard eloise et al blowing up the h bomb actually IS the incident/release of ENERGY? jack gonna be all 'we blew it up why am i still on the island'.

― MONUMENTAL_ARAB_HORSE.jpg (nickalicious), Friday, May 1, 2009 12:18 AM (4 days ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Also: THEY WOULD ALL BE DEAD. Daniel never explained how the magnetic incident would be worse than a hydrogen bomb. A hydrogen bomb would be worse than Hiroshima.

except it would kill <100 people probably

I see what you mean. But it would kill everyone on the island, and the island would probably still be radioactive in 2004? (Though perhaps that was "the sickness"?)

The bomb would be better because it would annihilate everything so Des never causes their plane to crash in 2004. Eliminates the possibility of the crazy time loop altogether. (It gets into some hairy back to the future nonsense, but it's established by the show's logic that you can change things now, so I THINK that's how it's supposed to work.)

It wouldn't end with them getting off the plane in LA, though, because there was something that made them all get on the plane. They've left that behind but all those early flashback episodes about Jin and Sun et al and all the links between characters pre-island... all that added up to something. If the island got blown up in 1977, Abbadon would never have recruited Locke. And so on.

With the island all blowed up maybe they wouldn't be getting on a plane in Australia to begin with.

(I use the word begin loosely)

Something tells me the show won't end with the erasure of everything that happened in it! It would still leave questions like, does Hurley win the lottery?

it would be awkward most of all for Des as he'd probably drown after the storm hit his sailboat instead of landing on the island. or he'd land on the island and starve to death/get eaten by the smokemonster.

Yeah I don't think that's how it's going to go down. The idea of setting off the bomb is to change it so they don't crash on the island, whether that'll work is something else. I mean, the island magically stopped Michael's gun from firing when he tried to commit suicide, so who's to say it won't magically stop the HYDROGEN BOMB that is DIRECTLY THREATENING IT from detonating.

xpost

xxp hurley prob won't win the lottery as the numbers won't be broadcast and his asylum-mate would have no cause to repeat it. and then he'd take that girl out to the hold steady gig (lol season 1 flashbacks).

(It gets into some hairy back to the future nonsense, but it's established by the show's logic that you can change things now, so I THINK that's how it's supposed to work.)

Can they actually change things, though? It makes me think back to Desmond's whole trip to LA in 2007. Did that actually accomplish anything besides Ben getting his ass kicked before taking the plane back? Locke, Eloise and Ben were already making plans to go back, all of this would have happened even if Desmond was taken out of the equation. That said, I think whatever happened to Desmond this season will have some effect next year, but whatever he did certainly didn't help save the island folks.

Hold Steady gig was season 2?

xposts Poor Des wouldn't even have Penny to rescue him since they would be blowing up her father!

But then he wouldn't be sailing at all! So. He'd just be a drunk back in Scotland?

xpost--Faraday seemed to *think* they could change things, anyway. ("I was so focused on the *science word you sorta remember from junior high* that I forgot about the *other science word you sorta remember from junior high*!!")

and then they proved him wrong by having his own mother shoot him despite his best intentions.

Does that prove him wrong? Jack has his notebook, they're still interested in setting off the bomb. The show left us hangin there.

penny could've been born off-island by 1977? although i guess then her dad wouldn't be a billionaire and she wouldn't be at the church to meet desmond anyway.

gah too many paradoxes.... i just don't see how they can pull off this "change your destiny" thing, so i say they the time loop remains. That's their destiny and jack has gotta learn not to fight it sometime.

the promo for the next ep seems to imply that jack and kate argue over whether they should set off the bomb or not.

Plus if her dad is dead then he can't sponsor that round-the-world race...isn't that how/why Des wound up crashing/got a sail boat? I think?

Yeah I think the time loop is going to remain, we have a whole next season to get through, so they're not going to wipe it all out at this point. I think they're trying to keep us guessing as to whether you can actually change things, but whatever the case, how this show works there could be like, SOMETHING, ANYTHING, happening and like, they wind up in 2007 again, who knows. We still have Locke and Sun in 'present' times trying to get to Jack / Jin etc (or trying to get Jack / Jin etc 'back' to them)...speculation is fun but I feel like it could totally go anywhere right now.

(what in the hell did I just type?!?!)

Oh good, more Jack / Kate dynamic :( xpost

yeah. although i hope that means less of them during the finale itself.

I think the "incident" will send Jack/Kate/Miles/etc back... to the future. And then season six can be about the shadow people, Christian and Claire Shepherd.

Haha, yeah that does seem most likely. They better deal with the smoke monster more, too. With every new episode, the entire time in the back of my mind, I'm going "YOU CAN NOT SHOW ME HIEROGLYPHS OF THE SMOKE MONSTER STANDING IN JUDGMENT OF OF ANUBIS AND NOT EXPLAIN YOURSELF DUDE"

guys the bomb is not going to go off

Yeah I think the time loop is going to remain,

needs more hot ghost claire

Uh, I don't think Faraday is considering detonating the atomic bomb in order to kill everyone on it. In made-up bad science presumably the bomb is intended to cancel out the effect of The Incident, whatever that is. Or maybe stop everything from happening.

I still the think the bomb is eventually detonated when Desmond turns the failsafe key. They're going to have to explain that bit somehow.

The whole idea of setting off an h-bomb to fix an otherwise even worse situation sounds fucked up to me. I hope they get up close to the edge but don't actually do it -- it would be a shark-jumpy moment for me.

Yeah Matt otm. I figured there was some cod science on the way that'd say the bomb cancels out the electro-magnetic brou-ha-ha.

I mean have you guys never played Incident-H-Bomb-Scissors before?

worst line in this episode was when daniels mom was like "you dont have enough time" and then he was like "but i can make time"

liked the way dan and his mother were AVIN AN OLD FASHIONED BRITISH CURRY at like fucking midday