how many friends/family members have you stopped speaking to because of Donald Trump

Depends on the Brexiter but in general I think yeah.

Like if I meet someone who voted for Brexit I'm at least interested in unpicking why and what their reasoning was and whether they regret it now but my response to a Trump voter would just be one of horror for all the reasons already mentioned.

More wriggle room that Brexit wasn't explicitly a vote for or even alliance with racists, but given the tone of the campaign not as much as you might think

plausible deniability much less with trump

I mean there wasn't even a person to vote for with Brexit, although Farage was obviously a face of it there were a lot of Leavers who would never have voted for him personally. They were voting for an outcome or an idea, whereas Trump voters were literally voting for a racist serial sex offender.

I still have yet to meet a single person who's admitted to voting for Turnip (although I have my suspicions about some of my coworkers). So I thankfully haven't had to chuck anyone. My dad was a lifelong Republican who couldn't bring himself to vote for W. a second time so I imagine he would've refrained. And since he's dead, I have to assume that someone cast an illegal vote for Clinton in his name.

People I'll cut off: openly racist / sexist, people who prefer trolling to engaging in debate
People I didn't give up on: no real interest in or knowledge of politics, perhaps voted Trump / Brexit without being properly informed

Yeah, you might say this second group are equally culpable, but they are the majority and persuading them is surely the only way to get out of this terrible place.

Are Trump voters worse than Brexiteers? From here in the UK it seems like they probably are but that might just be that I don't know any in person.

One of my best friends voted Brexit, from left wing principles. No, Jeremy Corbyn is not one of my best friends.

I guess I was excluding the leftie brexiteers - even though I think their analysis is wrong they're not evil, racist, etc

There is a couple of online people I'm fairly fond of who supported Trump. They make lots of silly excuses for him but the main thing they were hung up on was the belief that with Hillary as President more people would die in war.

I don't think think they're all welcoming the intolerance or completely ignoring it, I think some people are just completely deluding themselves about it. I'm guessing that's what non-white and lgbt Trump voters do.

Director Alex Cox said something like "Hillary will start world war 3 but Trump is an unknown quantity". I think Julian Assange said something really similar. It's not very convincing because Trump was clearly going to be awful.
I really don't know how much war Hillary was likely to cause but I could easily imagine Trump creating war in all sorts of ways.

Bannon has openly said he wants a war with China in the South China Sea so

Bannon believes we're already in WW3 so

controversial opinion but i suspect the american military is actually bad and dumb and they wouldn't just have a lot of casualties but i think they would lose any war they got into with another actual country that's bigger than iraq.

Hillary will start world war 3

^ seems like an insane reading of her politics. HRC's right in line with the usual 'moderate democrat' policies of using cruise missiles, no fly zones, covert special forces raids, sanctions, or a few thousand "military advisors" on the ground to impose the USA's will on smaller nations. iow, she's for the status quo foreign policy straight down the line. Her Iraq War vote was purely a political insurance policy to keep her presidential aspirations alive. She was craven, for sure, but at bottom it was not a move made out of belligerence, but more out desperation.

they would lose any war they got into with another actual country that's bigger than iraq

nah

have about 20 acquaintances and extended family who are trump fans or at least sympathetic to his goals but they NEVER talk about it on social media or in life, at least around me and my immediate family. i'm sure they do some form of the trump voter support group that was linked on the rolling politics thread, but are very circumspect and secretive otherwise. it's kind of eerie.

seems like an insane reading of her politics. HRC's right in line with the usual 'moderate democrat' policies of using cruise missiles, no fly zones, covert special forces raids, sanctions, or a few thousand "military advisors" on the ground to impose the USA's will on smaller nations. iow, she's for the status quo foreign policy straight down the line. Her Iraq War vote was purely a political insurance policy to keep her presidential aspirations alive. She was craven, for sure, but at bottom it was not a move made out of belligerence, but more out desperation.

― a little too mature to be cute (Aimless), Monday, 6 February 2017 18:51

I think they believe that Hillary would be harder on Russia than Obama (which might be true and I'd hope that would be good) and they think that alone would start war with Russia.
Of course this might just be a cover for less savoury reasons to support Trump, but I don't know.

seems like an insane reading of her politics. HRC's right in line with the usual 'moderate democrat' policies of using cruise missiles, no fly zones, covert special forces raids, sanctions, or a few thousand "military advisors" on the ground to impose the USA's will on smaller nations. iow, she's for the status quo foreign policy straight down the line. Her Iraq War vote was purely a political insurance policy to keep her presidential aspirations alive. She was craven, for sure, but at bottom it was not a move made out of belligerence, but more out desperation.

― a little too mature to be cute (Aimless),

hi!

the "hillary will start WW3" shit seems to go right in line w/ the widespread notion among certain quarters of the left -- from counterpunch to salon to the nation -- that the u.s. was primarily responsible for the ukraine mess and putin is actually something of a hero fighting the good fight against u.s. imperialism.

at any rate no non-crazy president is ever going to go to war w/ a nation that has nuclear weapons. but the ppl who supported trump because they thought he was an "unknown quantity" or whatever managed to give us our very first president who might actually be dumb or deranged enough to do just that.

I haven't asked that many people about their vote because I don't necessarily want to know the answer. My parents both voted for him, and most likely my brother' suburbanite friends did.

I'm still thinking we're undervaluing the role that group belief plays in this, and how much of our conclusions and beliefs are shit we both inherit and take on trust from people in our social networks unknowingly reinforcing them again and again and again.

I mean, assholish behavior is only designated that by contrast or compared with group norms, right? And different groups have different standard for assholish behavior beyond the pale.

I'm p surprised by the number of people for whom it's ambiguous, cos while I have very few Trump voters in my circle, the ones that were made a really obnoxiously big deal about it on a near-daily basis

think they believe that Hillary would be harder on Russia than Obama (which might be true and I'd hope that would be good) and they think that alone would start war with Russia.
Of course this might just be a cover for less savoury reasons to support Trump, but I don't know.

― Robert Adam Gilmour, Monday, February 6, 2017 11:23 AM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Based on who I was hearing it from, the "Hillary wants to go war w Russia" line very much seemed like a disingenuous excuse. In the fallout of an actual Trump admin in our lives, the closet thing to contrition you will get from some of those people is "I didn't think she would lose"

lol I realized that earlier I meant to "hi!" this post:

have about 20 acquaintances and extended family who are trump fans or at least sympathetic to his goals but they NEVER talk about it on social media or in life, at least around me and my immediate family. i'm sure they do some form of the trump voter support group that was linked on the rolling politics thread, but are very circumspect and secretive otherwise. it's kind of eerie.

― sciatica, Monday, February 6, 2017

I meant to "hi!" this post:

(aimless's friendly grin and wave back at Alfred suddenly freeze. he visibly slumps as he turns aside, dejected and alone)

I liked your post too!

Director Alex Cox said something like "Hillary will start world war 3 but Trump is an unknown quantity". I think Julian Assange said something really similar. It's not very convincing because Trump was clearly going to be awful.

some bigots justify their bigotry by saying things like "sure his views are bad but i can't bring myself to support the alternative". in 2013 loads of australians justified their support for a nasty bigot by claiming they "couldn't vote for labor", subjecting the country to a complete fucking disaster.

I guess it's zero for me, since the family members I'm pretty sure voted for Trump are generally people I am not in contact with anyway. Whenever I see them at the next big family gathering I will probably give them shit for it though. we are a pretty argumentative family, wouldn't be the first time.

Oddly enough Alex Cox written an earlier version of Mars Attacks which had Trump as a former president. It was supposed to be satirical but I taken his recent interview to mean that he preferred Trump to Hillary.

http://www.rawstory.com/2017/02/deal-breaker-couple-quits-22-year-marriage-over-husbands-trump-support/amp/

Burning passions over Donald Trump’s presidency are taking a personal toll on both sides of the political divide. For Gayle McCormick, it is particularly wrenching: she has separated from her husband of 22 years.

The retired California prison guard, a self-described “Democrat leaning toward socialist,” was stunned when her husband casually mentioned during a lunch with friends last year that he planned to vote for Trump – a revelation she described as a “deal breaker.”

“It totally undid me that he could vote for Trump,” said McCormick, 73, who had not thought of leaving the conservative Republican before but felt “betrayed” by his support for Trump.

“I felt like I had been fooling myself,” she said. “It opened up areas between us I had not faced before. I realized how far I had gone in my life to accept things I would have never accepted when I was younger.”

✊

heroine

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

0 - I do have freinds/family that support Donald Trump, but I still talk to them.

I'm perfectly fine with other people having different political beliefs than my owm, thank you very much.

fine, but if they wear bright red trucker hats and say things like "she can take that fucking rag off her face" or "don't let that pink-barrelled pen anywhere near me lest people think i'm a flaming poove"

I'm perfectly fine with other people having different political beliefs than my owm, thank you very much.

― Mr. Snrub, Friday, February 10, 2017 12:29 PM (thirteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

do you, but don't pretend this is the morally superior option

okay while i'm here i've got to say this generally because recently it's been pissing me right the fuck off: being a savage bigot is not just a "political belief". objecting to fuckheads who are arseholes to people because of who they are is not just "disagreeing with an opinion". i am so fucking sick of this reductive bullshit.

i don't know anyone who voted for brexit, or any tories really. i think even someone voting conservative would be enough for me to cut them out of my life, but i also think tories are such a particular breed that they wouldn't end up in my life anyway, not least cos i'm irish and many of my friends in the uk are also irish.

obv i'm living surrounded by people with leftwing politics, but the only story i heard about a brexit voter in the wild was from my flatmate, who said he met some friend of a friend at a beer bar in hackney who had voted brexit, and was passionately and emotionally arguing his case. the bit i remember is my flatmate said he kept saying "i know, i know i'll get shouted down but this referendum has touched something deep inside for me" in a sort of sombre way.

which is fucking hilarious. i wish i'd been there.

okay while i'm here i've got to say this generally because recently it's been pissing me right the fuck off: being a savage bigot is not just a "political belief". objecting to fuckheads who are arseholes to people because of who they are is not just "disagreeing with an opinion". i am so fucking sick of this reductive bullshit.

― Autumn Almanac, Friday, February 10, 2017 7:51 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I once was considering dating a girl who was interested in me and then stopped because she went on an unsolicited rant one day about how lazy Black people were. everybody seems to think that's understandable (why would you want to hang out w/ someone like that?!) but if someone voted for Trump not due to creating jobs but because "people need to learn English" or "Muslims are killing us all", suddenly 'man you aren't being fair, you can't stop talking to em for that reason'.

when it's really more like "If I had known this person was like this to begin with, we probably never would have became friends".

family is diff obv but it's like....it isn't like some of us ITT are talking about SBing someone from our lives due to voting Republican.

lol my total is now 1 cos a Trumper just defriended me on FB ...forgot he was a huge TheBlaze reader.

which is fucking hilarious. i wish i'd been there.

OTM. This is also OTM:

tories are such a particular breed that they wouldn't end up in my life anyway

I can't remember if I mentioned it on the board before but my one (extended) family member who was expressing pro-Trump sentiment when I saw him last summer died a week later.

man u can't be killin people just for havin diff opinions

yeah I've wondered at the experiences of Britishes, who are firm about abjuring any acquaintance with a hint of Toryism. My experience is different: the swinish politics of relatives who tend to keep these matters to themselves unless provoked.

my Father always tries to troll me, is the problem.

too bold

that's my wife's experience with her father too. his latest FB post is a Liz Warren-as-Land-o-Lakes-Indian-Squaw meme.

xps to alfred: I don't get a chance to spurn tories, I v rarely meet them