Jeremy Corbyn vs Angela Eagle

As I was saying to my housemate just a couple of hours ago: my father is also wondering about Paul Mason's mental health.

That is all.

I get the impression that Mason has always had some odd views, but that this was less obvious when he was a TV news economics correspondent, rather than whatever he is now? he doesn't seem noticeably more bonkers than any other member of Workers' Power that I've met, certainly.

(not that I've ever met Paul Mason, but you understand)

I am increasingly finding myself agreeing with everything Mason says these days, probably not much of an endorsement:p

https://twitter.com/jamesgoldstone/status/762960132095565824

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/17/jeremy-corbyn-labour-leadership-members-choose-shadow-team

In what will be presented as a conciliatory move to unify the party, one proposal is that a third of shadow cabinet posts are elected by the parliamentary party, another third by the leader and a final third by members.

um, good luck with that

Yeah I don't get that at all. What information will the membership have from the candidates on which to base their selections? Voting track record, tax returns, health records?

Could be about as meaningless as the old posters I use to see round uni in the 80s for elections to the NUS committee. People I'd never heard of, statements I didn't believe.

As it happens, 2011 was also when I interviewed him last, and we meet in the same Soho cafe. Mason still drinks multiple cups of cappuccino but everything else has changed. The pinstriped suit has gone, along with the need to try and at least appear impartial. He’s now in jeans, stubble and giving off a palpable sense of purpose. He’s not quite the movement’s Jagger but he’s one of the headliners, a star act, punching through on Twitter, appearing at the rallies, top of the bill at The World Transformed – though he’s no Corbynista. “On the night we won the NEC decision that allowed him on to the ballot paper, I was at a rally in Camden. There was a thousand people in the room cheering on Corbyn, shouting: ‘We love Jeremy!’ and I shocked them by saying: ‘I don’t give a shit about Jeremy Corbyn!’ To me, he is a good guy, I support him, but he’s a placeholder for a different kind of politics.”

It’s this different kind of politics that’s energising him. In America, he says, “what the Occupy generation chose to do was to occupy the Democratic party and that’s effectively what the people who don’t like neoliberal capitalism have chosen to do here: to occupy the Labour party.”

That’s interesting, I say, because that’s exactly what Richard Angell of Progress says is happening. Only the word he uses is “hijack”.

“I’m quite glad about that, though all we’re really doing is reclaiming it.”

But at what cost? Won’t it split the party?

“We, on the left of the party, didn’t want this fight. But it’s like what General Sherman said in the American civil war: ‘You’ve chosen war. We’re going to give you all the war you can take.’”

It’s a slightly chilling answer.

Capuccino is my drink of choice too btw.

Corbyn was also the cover feature in the Guardian weekend section yesterday which came with this interview
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/17/jeremy-corbyn-should-be-tougher-not-my-style

just listened to 15 minutes of John Pienaar and other political journalists discussing Corbyn and the Labour Party and weirdly the subjects of policy, economics, the electorate or democracy didn't come up once. it's almost as if political journalism has got fuck all to do with those things.

so if one were making wry observations about Paul Mason's emotional stability - and i think that's fair game! - my question might be why don't more hacks go stark raving mad in the face of the smug technocracy they feed off?

I can't listen to Pienaar any more - not that he ever was worth shit, I just pretend he doesn't exist these days and feel a lot happier.

Yeah I don't get that at all. What information will the membership have from the candidates on which to base their selections? Voting track record, tax returns, health records?

Could be about as meaningless as the old posters I use to see round uni in the 80s for elections to the NUS committee. People I'd never heard of, statements I didn't believe.

― For bodies we are ready to build pyramids (wtev), Sunday, September 18, 2016 7:14 AM (three hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

oh, I think giving the membership a role in electing the shadow cabinet is a great idea if Corbyn can manage to get it through. the left did very well at getting members to vote for their slate in the recent NEC elections, and there are a lot of very engaged members with strong opinions about the PLP, so I don't think it will be like the NUS situation you describe. I doubt that Corbyn's opponents are going to view giving one third of the vote to the leadership and one third to the overwhelmingly pro-Corbyn membership as a "conciliatory move", though

I agree with a lot of what Mason says but his rhetoric is increasingly hysterical and his technobabble is virtually 100% bullshit. Ultimately he is a better journalist than a polemicist but opting for the latter effectively frees him from any obligation towards self-questioning.

I don't think he's mentally ill fwiw and in any case Channel 4 news is surely one of the better environments for a left-wing journalist.

It’s a slightly chillingcool answer.

Is there any substance to the story that Corbyn didn't know how many seats the Labour Party has to recover/win at the next election?

not really imo - at the last debate Smith said at that Corbyn probably didn't know how many seats they need to pick up for a majority, and challenged him to give the number, Corbyn said "over 90", Smith said it was actually 105, and it's appalling that Corbyn didn't know this etc. I think the exact figure depends how you work it out, though - there are 650 MPs, so you need 326 for a majority, Labour won 232 at the last election which is presumably where Smith is getting his 105 from - that includes the speaker though, and three deputy speakers, none of whom take part in votes as far as I know. and obv all this could change with the boundry review, anyway.

also there are the Sinn Féin MPs who don't take their seats, and possibly various other quirks that I'm forgetting

it's of no importance whether anybody is carrying the number around in their heads, that's another quirk

yes, that too. (obv Smith wouldn't need to carry it around in his head anyway, as he's going to get it tattooed on his chest if he wins)

another revealing little snippet of Smith's "thought" process, true

also aren't there going to be less than 650 MPs? not that the question deserves an answer, but

it would be down to 600 under the proposals from the boundry review, if that is approved

Sorry to go back but this is beautiful:

Paul Mason Verified account
‏@paulmasonnews

List of brands that have advertised vs C4’s anti-Corbyn programme: #Dubai, #Lavazza, #Kia, #Samsung - £30k of ad spend.

Paul Bailey
‏@paulbailey

@paulmasonnews And? Christ, what happened to you?

In Bristol and Mason is here on Wednesday to give a talk on his favourite films - really tempted to go.

Just to check for signs of you know...

If I was trying to market coffee then I would all fucking over a programme watched exclusively by bourgeois wonks and metropolitan lefties.

There is a genuine young (>30) person in my Facebook friends who posted about going to a Smith rally and called him 'wonderful', I was astounded but don't know her well enough to start piling in on her feed with snarky comments.

not watching that worthless Pienaar trash tonight, but imagine the bbc impartiality furore if a program about Labour was produced by the parent of one of Corbyn's team.

Who is the producer/parent we should be incensed by?

Pienaar: a man wandering Britain in search of a neck.

Jeremy Corbyn doing loljoeks about IS having a Bond Street office = <3

Pienaar's daughter Olivia is on the Smith team.

More than thirty is a genuine young person? Fuck, there's hope for me yet.

Pienaar's daughter Olivia also appears to work for Rachel Reeves.

Reeves would have to change tack to get on board with Smith's current policies, wasn't she an even more a blatant Red Tory than Kendall?

Pienaar the Elder is the reporter on the show though, not the producer.

Yeah I know, but don't try and pedantically tell me he has zero input on the direction of the program.

Yeah, the clue's in the 'editor' part of his job title.

Fair enough, I was just going by the BBC. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07x0bvx

is there an actual PLP answer to the paradox of "we want to win a general election/we will refuse to recognise the outcome of any election we don't like"?

Luke Akerhurst is at it again

Writer showing a lack of confidence in that last para by saying Luke is playing a calculated long game. Massive idiot.

Last para is some fairly unveiled sarcasm tbfttl

Not sure I want to read his erotic fiction mind

Wasn't clear I was calling Luke a massive idiot for those tweets.

idk I think the fight for the Labour party's machine will carry on beyond Saturday. The left is part of the leadership but otherwise it does feel cornered and that probably won't shift given the type of ppl you are dealing with.

"... no we were advocating a challenge for months in full expectation of losing. Strategically this challenge has been helpful."

It wasn't fucking helpful for those shelling out to vote again. I'm glad this cunt is enjoying the PLP going back to Corbyn day zero in an even more weakened position after stealing money off hundreds of thousands of members. i shouldn't get mad really, he is insignificant.

can't help but feel that the correct response to Nicholas Lezard making a joke about assassinating Corbyn on facebook is for everyone to roll their eyes, go "Christ, Nicholas Lezard is a prick", then move on with their lives, and that Corbyn fans on twitter demanding that he be sacked from the Guardian and investigated by the police and so forth are not really helping themselves in the long run

I totally agree, it seems just as ott as some of that self-victimising bs from the PLP. A classier response would be to ignore the idiot.

can't see this leading to anything but even more pissiness and chest-beating the next time someone from Corbyn's "side" says something vaguely off-colour on social media, as much as anything else

The exasperating thing about all this is this crying eagle bullshit that pretends Corbyn is on the verge of some Castro-esque dominance and not just some dude who isn't very good at his job and will be gone in three or four years max.

If he leads Labour off a cliff then he's also leading his own movement off the same cliff. If he does better than expected then it benefits the Blairites who won't lose their own seats. This whole thing has been preposterously unnecessary and counterproductive.

now that there's only a few hours to go I suddenly feel this sense of dread that the predictions are all wrong and that Smith is actually going to win