2008 Primaries Thread 2: THE QUICKENING

Sure, it has. See also: every other government that has ever existed.

Government violated basic Hippocratic oath principles with Tuskegee, however. People probably don't wanna hear about smallpox blankets either.

The problem with explaining institutionalized racism to LMC whites is they always feel like you're calling *them* bigots rather than engaging with why black people might feel badly treated 140+ years after the end of the Civil War. They reason since they're not being discriminatory to the best of their knowledge, that there should not be a problem. See also 'Michelle Obama is lucky/should be grateful' meme.

Sure, it has. See also: every other government that has ever existed.

-- o. nate, Friday, March 14, 2008 2:03 PM (42 seconds ago) Bookmark Link

yet you think its farfetched that it would happen again?

fair enough. but i think it's pretty fruitless toil to examine all of the claims made by rev. wright for verifiability, as none of that is going to reduce the controversy. the larger theme -- that african americans in this country still face systematic & institutional oppression in addition to quotidian, interpersonal bigotry -- is really the more important theme here.

I can't get on board here. This kind of reasoning was tossed around when Fahrenheit 9-11 was released – "Oh, sure, Moore included a few outright lies but THE WAR WAS STILL A MISTAKE." Dude, you can say the war was a terrible calamity without resorting to Moore's distortions.

yet you think its farfetched that it would happen again?

I think it is farfetched that AIDS was created by the government.

o. nate, i don't know if you're being deliberately obtuse or what, but calling attention to the fact that America has done WRONG SHIT and continues to do so doesn't make you a traitor. The mindset behind those calling for Rev. Wright's head is "MY COUNTRY, RIGHT OR WRONG," and that anyone who reminds us of our inglorious past must hate America.

I dunno, it was pretty easy to get stuff past Reagan.

But really, can we relocate all this conspiratorial discussion to a different thread? I've got a headache from rolling my eyes so much.

what about an american president, revered by conservatives who will be voting for mccain, who said in his official memoirs that he wondered if aids was a punishment sent from god?

proposing that America can learn from past misdeeds and transcend the dark chapters of its own history -- that America can fulfill its promise DESPITE its history -- this is the idea I find simultaneously more pragmatic and more hopeful.

i look forward to lots of federal incidents surrounding right-wing backwoods secessionist nutjobs during the obama administration

I think lineage of how AIDS spread from Africa is quite clear to scientists these days, and its first known victims weren't American at all.

I think it is farfetched that AIDS was created by the government.

-- o. nate, Friday, March 14, 2008 2:07 PM (21 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

i dont think its 'farfetched,' i think its wrong
i think its understandable, based on past evidence, why some people might not see it as being farfetched

Yeah, I agree with both of those points.

shirts and skins

http://www.janeelliott.com/

WTF her videos are all $295 each!

http://www.yourdailymedia.com/i/u/N85REtHR.jpg

Educational videos are always crazy expensive. xp

i dont think its 'farfetched,' i think its wrong

OK, this is some serious semantic hair-splitting.

Anyway, I do think Obama has to be very careful about how he responds to this Wright stuff. It's particularly dangerous for him because he still remains largely a blank slate to a lot of people, and things like this run the risk of defining him.

'incorrect' and 'inconceivable' are not synonyms, buddy.

just to be able to mention "Farrakhan", "Nation of Islam", "militant black", and "Barak Obama", in the same sentence over and over again, like neocons did with "Iraq", "Saddam Hussein", "Osama bin Laden", and "9/11", is enough to make an impression on people whose opinions are based on impressions formed from snippets of news shows, newspaper headlines, and other methods of disseminated 'knowledge' (who i believe make up the majority of people, as cynical as that may be).

i'm not sure how important those types of people are to who gets elected in 2008, but this seems like one of those news stories that has the potential to enter the sort of national consciousness that is the basis for Jay Leno jokes, SNL bits, and water cooler conversations. if that happens; i think Obama is finished.

i think you need to calm down. it's serious but not fatal. it will hurt him in pennsylvania but he has the time to make it up, and i think that's doable.

hahaha now suddenly it's the obama foax who are like "everybody just stay calm"!!!!!!

nah im still freaked

but im glad you're proud that hillary's managed to make him as unelectable as she is

do you ever stop being an asshole???

haha you like it dont lie

good work extrapolating the opinions of millions from a single post on the internet, tracer, your insight is blinding.

well you're the one gloating about this whole thing (xpost)

shirts and skins 

camp HRC didn't 'make' the wright thing. but coming after farrakhan, power, and ferraro, it's another link in a pretty depressing chain of competitive umbrage-taking, that (SAY IT LOUD) camp HRC has been ready willing and able to play with... god can't wait for this to be finished.

it is amazing how tribes can ascribe motive to neutral statements

gff that's an admirable job of almost finding a way to make wright's past statements "another" example of hillary clinton "playing the race card"

you must be so glad the shit you are full of doesn't stink.

the most inflammatory wright stuff is in no way justifiable by obama (despite the strenuous efforts here to do just that!) but using it as some kind of proof that obama's got "problems" or whatever is horsesh*t, as i've already said quite clearly on this thread -- i am not gloating about this in the slightest, it makes me sad and angry that the words of probably a pretty good guy are getting chopped and twisted in order to smear obama

are you kidding? i don't think the wright flap has anything to do with HRC! and i said so! i'm depressed, equally depressed, you might say, that the campaign has descended into a contest of whose personal miseries and offenses are worse and who needs to apologize for what and how deeply. i don't think it does anyone any favors going forward and it's just gloomy to sit through.

but yes i think the farrakhan and ferraro incidents are creepier and much harder to excuse. wright may be more damaging in the long run, however.

xps

The media went digging after Wright because they sensed a bit of a story there, regardless of who is assisted by it in the campaign. The real winners are various media companies because people are tuning it in, hence ratings value, hence more viewers/page impressions/listeners, whoa nelly more expensive advertising results. Please remember that above all else Election 2008 has gripped the US and the world well beyond the two before it; the audience is massive and keeping all these balls in the air makes it stay that way.

saxomous (11 minutes ago):
I was an Obama supporter until this morning when I saw all of this.
I will not vote for a man whose pastor for 20 years, who married him, and baptized his kids acts like this.
Who knows what Obama has in the back of his mind, and how much anti-american hatred the Obamas have.
I was ready for change, I had hope...
and now its all gone because Barack Obama is no better than Clinton.
SHAME ON YOU OBAMA
God Damn America
How bout God Damn you asshole.

Veltanschaung (17 minutes ago):
Don't tell us this is the Church in which Barack an Michelle got married in?! He got title 'Audacity of Hope' from this "priest of Hate"! Incredible! This "hatemonger Priest" is the OBAMAS' SPIRITUAL ADVISOR?!!!!!

ajrep (41 minutes ago)
The blacks in this country need to shut the hell up and get back to work before NO ONE likes your sorry, whining, lazy ass. Racism in America as we knoiw it is mainly coming from the blacks!! Get over it. No one owes you anything you hate mongers.
Bombeni (47 minutes ago)
Well, Obama you are going down. It's official. You played plenty of American dupes but I had your racist muslim anti-American ass pegged from day one. Yeah that's right.

http://wonkette.com/368112/barack-hillary-agree-to-be-nicer

Read comments, lolz

it's another link in a pretty depressing chain of competitive umbrage-taking, that (SAY IT LOUD) camp HRC has been ready willing and able to play with

that's why i said "almost", gff

the difference between you and me elmo, is that you are playing a tribal game - a game of shirts and skins, where everything "they" say and do is proof of their evilness, and everything your guy says is proof that he is indeed the true honest one - i am not playing that game

it makes me sad and angry that the words of probably a pretty good guy are getting chopped and twisted in order to smear obama

OTM. I'm fully confident that Rev. Wright is actually a pretty stand-up guy, and I think it's part of the job description of any preacher worth his robes to occasionally unleash a few WTF eye-rollers. Sad how it will be used though.

Deej, those are shills.

It's refreshing to see that stupid ass shit pushed by the likes of WSJ and Fox hasn't caused the Demopcratic electorate to turn on each other and unsheath theior knives, at least, eh?

thanks for telling me about my own opinion, prick.

welcome to the internet!

What's sad is that McCain's "bomb Iran" song seems to be thought of as just for laffs, while Obama's pastor's comments, which don't involve killing people, aren't thought of as just for laffs.

yay America

Anyway, I do think Obama has to be very careful about how he responds to this Wright stuff. It's particularly dangerous for him because he still remains largely a blank slate to a lot of people, and things like this run the risk of defining him.

this has been said 100000000x about every near-scandal that's hit Obama and he's handled them all gracefully