Jeremy Corbyn vs Angela Eagle

Clive Lewis article is a pretty transparent laying of the ground for his own leadership bid a few years down the line. Corbynism would work if it wasn't for Corbyn himself etc.

Lewis is a big advocate of this idea of a "progressive alliance" of anti-tory parties, the pro/anti divide for this idea within the Labour party does not seem to map neatly onto the pro/anti Corbyn divide afaict? there are some Labour-right tribalists who are dead-set against but also a lot of anti-Corbyn people who are in favour. I guess that McDonnell's support for pr might mean that he is in favour? the other aspect is that the "progressive alliance" is often framed as an anti-brexit thing and there is the impression that Corbyn, McDonnell and some of their associates are not entirely unhappy about brext - but maybe this progressive alliance could be the way that the party gets put back together when Corbyn does eventually go?

Imagine everything he says in an Alan Partridge voice. Literally everything.

Corbyn is not great at dealing with the media in a lot of ways, but he does at least seem comfortable in his own skin, Smith seems to be a return to the daily cringeworthy moments of awkwardness that we had with Miliband and Brown (only Smith is awkward in a "normal" way as opposed to the much discussed "weirdness" of Miliband and Brown, which makes it all even more unedifying)

so proud of my boy, he's just posted on Facebook:

"Hi we're calling from the 'Owen Smith for Leader' campaign?"

well fuck off then

That Clive Lewis piece is a good, worked out position.

This: https://www.opendemocracy.net/uk/aaron-bastani/labour-can-only-win-with-jeremy-corbyn#.V5izscI5Kp4.twitter

At least a path is being sketched out. Unlikely - the point I'm taking is how certain forces and enthusiasm certainly build around JC in the way they couldn't around LOL Owen.

That analysis is pretty good apart from the bit about Corbyn being able to win an election, which is enough to ensure that it will be widely shared but also that no one who isn't already a believer will take it seriously.

Labour has yet to fully accept the fact that it is fundamentally not trusted by the electorate (and a lot of its own members). There's an assumption that the public would just naturally prefer them to a Tory government if only they had someone marketable enough upfront. I'm not sure that's even true any more.

Short of a miraculous stardust filled Obama meets Trudeau figure who enough people both like and trust to sell Corbynesque policies to the public, I can't see how any Labour Party could win with the country in the frame of mind it's in.

The thing is, Labour politicians also tend to assume that the way the public thinks now is the way it's always going to think. Labour has been objectively much worse than the Tories at aligning different interest groups in their favour, but those groups will have shifted in size and balance by 2025. And I'm pretty sure the Corbynite contingent will have grown by then as millions more voters turn 18 (and millions more dying).

Of course this doesn't rule out other interest groups growing even faster in that time. But the Tories have been bolstered by a change in personnel right now.

Also Clive Lewis has a tendency to tweet like an 18 year old with three league cup games for West Ham under his belt. He's a PR disaster waiting to happen.

He surely can't be any worse than Smith has been. I notice like Smith he did a stint at the BBC although probably less through nepotism in his case. Would think working as a political reporter for regional tv would give someone an understanding of what not to say to people. I mean is this stuff on twitter historical? Like before his meteoric rise :p

I think Lewis comes across fairly well in interviews, normal and straightforward. Certainly compared to these other numpties.

I'm glad you think he's normal!!!!!

What happens if the court rules that Corbyn can't automatically be on the ballot? Does he have to seek nominations? Do a load of other people then promptly do the same? Does Owen Smith just get arbitrarily crowned leader without any kind of process?

Apparently, the last thing you mentioned.

Having said that, I also read that Judges are very loathe to interfere with political matters, so I *think* it's a safe bet that the court will not rule that way.

I've seen there's also a court case being taken over the exclusion of new members on the leadership vote that led to the £25 charge.

& Owen Smith was on the BBC News question thing at 11.30 this morning and among other things said that he wanted to have the competition with Corbyn. So he would n't want him taken off the ballot.

I wonder fi there are any other U-turnng coupers after Sarah Champion this week anyway.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnJem92ElK0

Looks like Corbyn is on the ballot.

Just because Corbynites are paranoid doesn't mean etc.
http://www.newstatesman.com/2016/07/jeremy-corbyn-and-paranoid-style

Looks like the precedent that people were looking to about this in terms of why he shouldn't be on in the first place was a situation where Neil Kinnock was trying to show off the level of support he had at the time anyway. At least according to what the court reporter was saying on Tuesday

Corbyn is speaking here on Saturday, so I look forward to a chance to mingle with fellow Trots, paranoiacs and fantasists.

... don't forget the thugs, they will no doubt be well represented.

i'll try and do my bit

"His former job in one Britain’s most important industries is a plus, when Labour leaders are always mocked for ignorance of the private sector. He shows he has energy and ideas: as blows fall on him thick and fast, he has bravery, with the chutzpah that any aspiring leader needs."

This is Toynbee talking about Smith's period as a lobbyist for the company that makes viagra, or did he do some other job?

Toynbee has got virtually every major call wrong for the last decade at least. I remember when she was calling the bailout of the banks a victory for the left while saying that most people in the country would not be affected at all by the recession.

I can remember her gushing nonsense about Obama from '07, it was as bad as her piece on Smith today and also it proved to be woefully wrong.

Her narrative that the Labour Right has been vanquished and Corbyn has served his purpose - now step aside - is straight from Smith's office. She is just a fucking terrible journalist. I haven't read her for years until today tbh, but I'm guessing you could make a bible sized book of her writing that would be at least 99% fatuous and dishonest bullshit.

classic New Labour, empty of head and heart, doesn't understand why the whole country's not middle class

This is her real piece d'resistance : Blair has to talk up war in order to make it less likely... (posted by Nakhc 10 months ago)

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/sep/04/iraq.politics

even a stopped clock hey:

"Tony Blair clung to one core theme: inaction is not an option. Saddam and his weapons are too dangerous and he must not be allowed to build them up and threaten all around him. Earlier action against al-Qaida's strongholds after previous terrorist acts might have prevented September 11. That sounds superficially good. But it omits the real calculation to be made. Will attacking Iraq be even more dangerous, destabilising the entire Arab world and begetting fanatical Islam terror regimes? Doing nothing - beyond present no-fly containment - might well be the better part of valour."

She's got 1000000 problems and is almost always wrong but she's got a great way with bombast and seems unable to stop writing 600-words screeds so she will always, always be employed

I'm not familiar with her but I was reading that name as Tonybee and thought for a moment that Tony Blair had reinvented himself as a female pop act.

I mainly know her from some comic strips she did in the Guardian years ago. I thought she was good at the time, but I was in my tens. Not really read her since then

Stevolende, are you confusing her with Posy Simmonds maybe? trying to imagine what a Toynbee produced comic strip would be like

Toynbee essentially an irl version of a character from a Posy Simmonds comic, I guess

CLP Nominations
CLP Nominations‏ @CLPNominations

So far, fifty-nine constituencies have made supporting nominations. Eleven for Smith and forty-eight for Corbyn

It looks like almost all of the 11 Smith has picked up so far are in London, which makes a mockery of the idea Corbyn's appeal doesn't stretch beyond the capital.

The Toynbee paradaox, oh no it isn't a paradox forget it!

Yeah was thinking the comic strip was Tamara Drewe but couldn't think what the title was. Think that was mid 80s so quite a long time ago. Not read much Toynbee, wonder if they had columns in the same section at one point or something.

went to tower hamlets clp nomination this evening - gc votes only instead of the open vote they did last year no explanation of the rationale behind the change. poplar & limehouse nom jeremy corbyn, bethnal green & bow owen smith with owen smith receiving more votes overall. jim fitzpatrick mp (p&l) given three minutes to endorse a candidate spoke about jeremy corbyn and mentioned owen smith (who was his favoured candidate) when he was told he had ten seconds left while rushanara ali mp (bg&b) didn't say "owen smith" once or allude to him at any point while apparently endorsing him

Bbc news report about Corbyn being on ballot yesterday also said about the members' case about exclusion from leadership vote.
That starts next week.

Not sure about structure of judicial system in as much as likelihood that they'd get same judge or one with similar views. Just thinking is prevalent thought that judge would automatically say this is a Party matter not a judicial one? & this is over breach of contract anyway.
But would you be able to take a case if the judge's response would be known to be automatic. Would a reputable lawyer take it on.
Hopefully the outcome will be positive which might add to the amount of viable voters. Though what they'd have to do about the £25 then I don't know. Would mean them having taken it wasn't valid and might cause a stink.

His presence on the ballot was a matter of straight legal interpretation. The judge looked at the rules and interpreted them to mean that Corbyn wouldn't be excluded.

As i understand it, the exclusion of members is different and, as you say, a contractual issue. A judge can suggest it is a breach of contract for members to not be able to vote but that's different from requiring 'specific performance' - which would force Labour to allow them to vote. A more common outcome would be compensation of membership fees.

Sounds logical.
Would compensation of membership fees mean membership retained.
Wouldn't be very useful otherwise.

No, i think they'd probably have to give people the option of cancelling their membership and having their fees returned.

Yeah sounds like the opposite of desired result or at least extremely distant from it. I assume a decent lawyer would sit down with clients in initial meeting and outline likely outcomes. Not wanting to string clients along I also assume that those pursuing this case are people who want to stay with Labour but were just unhappy about lack of vote.

I've started following a bunch of Labour MPs on twitter and it's interesting looking at the "followers you know" bit on various accounts. afaict Owen Smith is the only Labour MP to follow @parisreview, Jamie Reed is the only Labour MP to follow @Full_KitWanker

Some controversy at the end of last week when it came out that the leadership announcement conference now clashed with the National Women's conference. I think both are happening just before the main labour conference.

& I would think that leadership might need to come out before the actual conference. Though both sides have asked that the announcement be delayed.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02z3x45

Mealy mouthed condemnations from politicians have done so much to heal the sectarian rifts and stop the IRA from committing acts of terrorism in in the past of course. I can't even listen to the full clip because it has Stephen Nolan on it.

http://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/images/localworld/ugc-images/276270/binaries/crowd%202.jpg

brown shirt and blue shorts on the right hand side = me

must've took that picture early on before it filled up

http://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/images/localworld/ugc-images/276270/binaries/crowd%204.jpg

that's more like how it felt

hadn't been outside for a couple of days and got sunburn #thanksCorbyn

He was at the Royal Armouries in Leeds last night and was thinking of making the trip with Alex, but I started drinking too early...