Jeremy Corbyn vs Angela Eagle

"In a speech at the site of the former Orgreave coking plant in South Yorkshire, the ex-work and pension spokesman will say Labour has a fine history of delivering social justice but must now refocus its efforts on striving for more equal outcomes for all."

I mean wtf does that even mean? Stop discriminating against the hard pressed banking sector?

I *think* this is getting at a reverse of the Blair "intensely relaxed about people getting filthy rich" thing, I'd be pleased all politicians started focussing on inequality as a bad and damaging thing TBH. "More equal outcomes" seems a very loophole-ridden mealy-mouthed way of talking about inequality though.

the whole Blairite project is "finding ways to sound like you care about poverty when you don't want to do anything to end it"

"Banker's Wives Matter"

xpost

More equal outcomes is a (perhaps accidentally, considering it's him) strong statement though - the sort of thing that conservatives sneer at as a thumb on the scales when they provide equality of opportunity (but Some People are, you know, just naturally lazy and thick).

Actually fair play to him, that appears to be what he's on about: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36896944

(That link appears to be the only match on Google for "has a fine history of delivering social justice" but that's not in the article)

it's certainly an impressive set of promises that has in no way been wrung out of these Tories manqués out of sheer desperation

I didn't realise that this bloke that supported a bill in 2015 that is indisputably responsible for the recent spike in child poverty was actually on the radical left and fighting for equality for all. He hid that pretty well.

Even if Corbyn loses, he will have dragged the party platform to the left and i think, even though he's terrible in a number of ways, Smith is at least a bit more sincere about his leftism than the majority.

This won't stop if he takes over though - Miliband was too left-wing for most of them. Smith will get a few months of grace but there's no way he'll be left in a position to implement a platform that comes close to his promises.

Smith's just got through oiling away on BBC News Channel to one of the audiences on this talking tour at the moment.
He repeated the Nye Bevan story in the same words after berating Corbyn for using slogans. He just seems to be thinking in terms of soundbites. But coming across as totally fake. Like some stereotype from the ministry in a b-film somewhere.

So wonder if once you've heard one of these speeches you've heard the one for each stop on the tour.

Got applause though.

I can't imagine a Smith election campaign running with a "we are going to borrow £200bn" pledge, when most of the Labour right (including Smith imo) considered Ed's austerity lite as too radical for the electorate.

think somebody should stand on a "shoot the electorate" ticket

"we are going to borrow £200bn" pledge, when most of the Labour right (including Smith imo) considered Ed's austerity lite as too radical for the electorate.

That depends on what the Tories to do some extent and how they frame the debate. One of the reasons Labour is in this mess is that they spent five years walking into every obvious twatty elephant trap that Osborne set for them.

Smith's "smash her back on her heels" quote re:May has gone down about as well as you would expect.

Interrupting an interview to feign surprise that the cappuccino he ordered didn't arrive in a mug another notable low from today.

look forward to his opinions on Carling and the footie coming soon

He worked for the BBC as a radio producer for 10 years, working on a variety of programmes in both Wales and London, including Today for BBC Radio Four and the weekly politics programme Dragon's Eye for BBC Cymru Wales.

the boy just oozes raw working class charisma

Smith's "smash her back on her heels" quote re:May has gone down about as well as you would expect.

Interrupting an interview to feign surprise that the cappuccino he ordered didn't arrive in a mug another notable low from today.

how on earth is he so bad at this

can't be easy to adopt a completely fake persona 24/7

The mug thing has been doing the rounds for a few days, unless he's done it again.

Imagine everything he says in an Alan Partridge voice. Literally everything.

Before a general election TV debate for ITV Wales last year, Smith was caught on camera telling the Plaid Cymru leader that she only appeared on Question Time because she is a woman:

Wood: “Have you ever done Question Time, Owen?”

Smith: “Nope, they keep putting you on instead.”

Wood: “I think with party balance there’d be other people they’d be putting on instead of you, wouldn’t they, rather than me?”

Smith: “I think it helps. I think your gender helps as well.”

That's just a shitty, small thing to say to another human being, regardless of whether you're a politician or whatever

> think somebody should stand on a "shoot the electorate" ticket

Poole would vote for it to 'stick it to the establishment', or to 'mix things up'.

Guess who just came from arguing with idiots on reddit?

I don't know, but he needs to be less exciteable.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/27/jeremy-corbyn-labour-party-leader-crisis

Ultimately, though, we have to be honest with ourselves. Corbyn’s leadership has struggled. There are good reasons for this – not least the almost permanent attack from the media and sections of the PLP, which have been destabilising from day one. But we must also acknowledge that the leadership of the party has not been good enough yet – that is Corbyn’s fault, just as much as it is mine and my colleagues. Alliances have not yet been built; big ideas have not yet been developed.

With endorsements like this...

who dis "we"

HIm and his friends?

I did wonder on hearing him interjecting the endearing term 'friends' into his speech this morning, how completely insincere somebody could sound. Also wondered if it was a term that people interjected much these days since it sounds like something straight out of The Health And Happiness show or a Woody Guthrie performance or something.

& he is trying to invent a role for Corbyn to serve in the Cabinet if he gets in. Apparently President has been exposed as fictional or simply non-existent so wouldn't do.

that article matt posted is from CLIVE smith (who i'd thought was a pretty a-ok dude prior to that wet-fish endorsement)

Clive Lewis.

The Lewis article is fair and honest.

There is already one multi-faceted dynamo in the party who is making a complete arse out of himself on a daily basis. Nowt wrong with a bit of honesty and self-criticism amongst colleagues, better than all that fake bullshit.

lol yes Clive Lewis

fml

Yeah i mean it is fair but I dunno, I take a team-sport mentality to this stuff, you never talk shit about your teammates to the press

I think a balanced endorsment like that is more likely to win converts than die-hard Corbynista flag waving.

Clive Lewis article is a pretty transparent laying of the ground for his own leadership bid a few years down the line. Corbynism would work if it wasn't for Corbyn himself etc.

Lewis is a big advocate of this idea of a "progressive alliance" of anti-tory parties, the pro/anti divide for this idea within the Labour party does not seem to map neatly onto the pro/anti Corbyn divide afaict? there are some Labour-right tribalists who are dead-set against but also a lot of anti-Corbyn people who are in favour. I guess that McDonnell's support for pr might mean that he is in favour? the other aspect is that the "progressive alliance" is often framed as an anti-brexit thing and there is the impression that Corbyn, McDonnell and some of their associates are not entirely unhappy about brext - but maybe this progressive alliance could be the way that the party gets put back together when Corbyn does eventually go?

Imagine everything he says in an Alan Partridge voice. Literally everything.

Corbyn is not great at dealing with the media in a lot of ways, but he does at least seem comfortable in his own skin, Smith seems to be a return to the daily cringeworthy moments of awkwardness that we had with Miliband and Brown (only Smith is awkward in a "normal" way as opposed to the much discussed "weirdness" of Miliband and Brown, which makes it all even more unedifying)

so proud of my boy, he's just posted on Facebook:

"Hi we're calling from the 'Owen Smith for Leader' campaign?"

well fuck off then

That Clive Lewis piece is a good, worked out position.

This: https://www.opendemocracy.net/uk/aaron-bastani/labour-can-only-win-with-jeremy-corbyn#.V5izscI5Kp4.twitter

At least a path is being sketched out. Unlikely - the point I'm taking is how certain forces and enthusiasm certainly build around JC in the way they couldn't around LOL Owen.

That analysis is pretty good apart from the bit about Corbyn being able to win an election, which is enough to ensure that it will be widely shared but also that no one who isn't already a believer will take it seriously.

Labour has yet to fully accept the fact that it is fundamentally not trusted by the electorate (and a lot of its own members). There's an assumption that the public would just naturally prefer them to a Tory government if only they had someone marketable enough upfront. I'm not sure that's even true any more.

Short of a miraculous stardust filled Obama meets Trudeau figure who enough people both like and trust to sell Corbynesque policies to the public, I can't see how any Labour Party could win with the country in the frame of mind it's in.

The thing is, Labour politicians also tend to assume that the way the public thinks now is the way it's always going to think. Labour has been objectively much worse than the Tories at aligning different interest groups in their favour, but those groups will have shifted in size and balance by 2025. And I'm pretty sure the Corbynite contingent will have grown by then as millions more voters turn 18 (and millions more dying).

Of course this doesn't rule out other interest groups growing even faster in that time. But the Tories have been bolstered by a change in personnel right now.

Also Clive Lewis has a tendency to tweet like an 18 year old with three league cup games for West Ham under his belt. He's a PR disaster waiting to happen.

He surely can't be any worse than Smith has been. I notice like Smith he did a stint at the BBC although probably less through nepotism in his case. Would think working as a political reporter for regional tv would give someone an understanding of what not to say to people. I mean is this stuff on twitter historical? Like before his meteoric rise :p

I think Lewis comes across fairly well in interviews, normal and straightforward. Certainly compared to these other numpties.

I'm glad you think he's normal!!!!!

What happens if the court rules that Corbyn can't automatically be on the ballot? Does he have to seek nominations? Do a load of other people then promptly do the same? Does Owen Smith just get arbitrarily crowned leader without any kind of process?

Apparently, the last thing you mentioned.

Having said that, I also read that Judges are very loathe to interfere with political matters, so I *think* it's a safe bet that the court will not rule that way.

I've seen there's also a court case being taken over the exclusion of new members on the leadership vote that led to the £25 charge.

& Owen Smith was on the BBC News question thing at 11.30 this morning and among other things said that he wanted to have the competition with Corbyn. So he would n't want him taken off the ballot.

I wonder fi there are any other U-turnng coupers after Sarah Champion this week anyway.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnJem92ElK0

Looks like Corbyn is on the ballot.