Jeremy Corbyn vs Angela Eagle

corbyn's being asked about it because eagle has cancelled her surgeries on police advice and then gone on to specifically say that corbyn is partially to blame for "stirring up trouble"

Looks like it was ian Watson who is a correspondent for the BBC I think who asked JC about the Eagle office brick episode, as though nothing further had been revealed since then. But since I thought it was being looked at as a botched robbery I did find it very weird. has anybody else in the building been forced to change their normal schedule because somebody vandalised the stair window?

If you ask loudly on the internet "Is this woman lying about this abuse", there'll always be people who'll tell you yes - if the police have described it as botched robbery then they've done so too quietly for Google to notice. Which is not to say that they haven't - if you've got an official police statement then that's cool, if not it might be an idea to sit on your hands for a bit.

If only this much effort could be putting in to condemning May/the Tories.

if not it might be an idea to sit on your hands for a bit.
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Until when? A photograph of a broken window in Angela Eagle's office not the stairwell of the office block appears.
Gee I'll hold my breath then eh?

You claimed the police had said something specific, can you back this up?

I thought the Police had it down as a botched Burglary attempt?

― Mark G, Friday, July 22, 2016 1:40 PM (13 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Was where it was said i.e. not me

otherwise there have been various videos of the building and photos of the office with no broken window and the stairwell with a broken window around online. & various people talking about it which is why I thought it was widesopread news.

& since the photo is of the stairwell not the office I would think it odd taht the police were following up a story on an act of vandalism that didn't go down as has been otherwise reported.

it's totally plausible that this was somebody disgruntled with Angela Eagle, and it's unlikely we'll ever know one way or another, so i wouldn't question the truth of the claim but point out that it's still stupid, obnoxious and slanderous to try and blame Corbyn for it

"I had thought it was as you say a botched burglary attempt." - are you being hacked by the PLP there, Stevo?

You claimed the police had said something specific, can you back this up?

― Frederik B, Friday, July 22, 2016 7:03 PM (14 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Watch out, Fred's about.

just the facts, ma'am

There is nothing wrong with what I said . There is very little to go on in terms of blaming people following Corbyn for the vandalism of the windows of a stairwell is there? BUt that is the way it has been milked. I thought they had given up on that line of pursuit as fruitless since the actual window that was broken has been exposed

& where exactly in my comment do I say that the police said that? I said I thought that was the way it was being looked at since I do think that was true, at least until this morning when somebody brought it up again and asked Corbyn about it. Which i thought a bit dim since the photograph of the stairwell is the only one circulating with any signs of damage. The only photos of the Labour constituency office I've seen have had the window absolutely intact. & it's in a more vulnerable place.

just the facts, ma'am

― Guangchang, thank you man (Noodle Vague), Friday, July 22, 2016 8:19 PM (12 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

& if taht was the way it was looked at from the start there wouldn't have been a story in the first place would there?

i was just joking about Fred's "Columbo" shtick

i largely agree with you Steve but it's hard to draw many conclusions either way - we don't need to think that Eagle is fabricating her concerns to say that it's ludicrous to blame Corbyn

It is unpleasant when shit like this happens. Once I had a brick thrown through my window and I never knew if it was personal or not. The weather was shit and the council wouldn't temp board it up until I got a crime number from disinterested cops who have better shit to do. I am sure under normal circumstances "Brick Thrown Through Window in Merseyside" wouldn't cause so much discussion. On the other hand I do have some sympathy with Angela, because female politicians do have to deal with some very unsavoury elements and probably more so than their male counterparts. In my constituency we have one recently murdered female MP and another who had to improve her security after receiving threats to rape and kill her last year. But Angela's talk of Corbyn creating the conditions under which this type of abuse is occurring is absolute shite.

Hi,

I'm saying "I thought I heard"

I'm fairly sure I heard, but that doesn't mean its true, or some time later they decided otherwise.

& where exactly in my comment do I say that the police said that?

I am kind of giving you the benefit of the doubt there? Like, if you're pushing the idea that she's making this up, or overreacting, or any of the other ways that attacks against women are generally minimised, then I'd rather assume that you're doing this because there's an official report by people who are paid to look at this, rather than "someone said something and there's a Youtube".

There has been a photograph of the broken window pretty widely circulated.
The story that this was directly an attack on her office has been spun since the window was broken. It was not the window of her office.
So benefit of what doubt. I mean really mate the idea that I need your approval to see that the whole thing is a misreporting of fact strikes me as a little creepy to say the very least.

Why would the police be looking into the breaking of a window on her office if the window wasn't to her office?

Moreover it was pretty immediately blamed on Corbyn supporters for some reason. Not sure where that came from.

You're splitting hairs now - do you think it's an attack on Eagle or not? It's obvious to me why the police investigated a brick through the window of an adjacent stairwell on the day she announces her candidacy (and the day before she gets a credible-sounding death threat).

I agree that it's nothing to do with Corbyn, but you seem to be bending yourself around a corkscrew to avoid the idea that it's an attack on her.

Reading reports, it's even in there that there was glass "up and down the stairs". Nobody was hiding that it was on a stairwell. It also happened on the night after she announced her leadership challenge, after which she was also bombarded with threats and abuse, to the extent that an event had to be cancelled due to security concerns. Anyone coming to the building where her office is, and seeing a brick thrown into the window of the communal stairwell, would be excused for thinking it was against her. And the idea that it's just a coincidental botched robbery attempt on the same night seems unlikely, honestly (though of course, it's possible). So yeah, I'd hope you'd have more proof than just youtube videos and conspiratorial webpages.

Ah now, don't mock the Youtube! We don't know what sinister media forces are responsible for the stifling of the work of Mr, er, "Music Fuhrer".

I find it very difficult to believe a word she says.
Obviously you do.

The event in a Luton hotel was cancelled by the hotel, not Eagle's people, because the hotel had a policy of not taking bookings for political events.

The problem with the brick through the window (in a rough part of Wallasey, and opposite a pub) was the way Eagle and her supporters immediately jumped to suggest a Corbyn supporter was behind it, as if getting that idea out there and injuring Corbyn was more important than a proper investigation. Also, Merseyside police have denied approaching Eagle about cancelling her surgeries; they say she approached them. Dealing with entrenched misogyny is an issue bigger than the people on the left who might be like that; the fact that two women have become PM who are Tories has nothing to do with Labour being too misogynist to choose a female leader, and everything to do with Conservatives being OK with women who play a Queen Bee figure, which is the absolute antithesis of feminism because it's one woman handed power at the expense of other women.

Absolutely nailed it there Suzy, Angela's dishonest dialogue doesn't address the real problems or do either side any favours.

Also, May's feminism - if it can be called that - is the white woman/collar strain and while the top of the iceberg can be characterised as vaguely girl power when it suits, the Conservative policies she is happy to preside over actually disadvantage most of womankind disproportionately, and her tenure as Home Sec has undermined women trying to claim asylum and economic migrants who have to earn past certain thresholds to get settlement rights (20 per cent pay gaps mean that men doing a £35k job might have non-EU female colleagues on £28k in the same job). I told her as much about 'posh woman's feminism' when I debated her, so it's not like she hasn't had 15+ years to become less superficially feminist, right?

I've just been hearing a new story about an intrusion into the office of Seema Malhorta by a Labour Aide being reported on the BBC News Channel. That looks like another non-story being blown up since the Labour Aide was trying to check if the room was being vacated on schedule. But the story has had John McDonnell Appeal to Labour members, MPs etc to stop trying to destroy the Party
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/john-mcdonnell-video-andrew-marr-labour-leadership-election-owen-smith-jeremy-corbyn-a7153186.html
and
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/24/john-mcdonnell-labour-stop-destroying-party

He said: “We’ve got to stop this. Am I on this camera? Let me just say this to Labour Party supporters, Labour members, members of the Parliamentary Labour Party.

“We’ve got to stop this now. There’s a small group out there that are willing to destroy our party just to remove Jeremy Corbyn.

“We’ve got to stop them, we’ve got to unite. And if you want to come for me and Jeremy Corbyn, well then that’s up to you.

“I want Owen and Jeremy and everyone to say: ‘Let’s stop this now’.”

and that story had me thinking about the other non-story being blown out of proportion as far as I can see. So am wondering why I'm still hearing it being reported on BBC news as though t was the Constituency office window. Which quite clearly it wasn't.

and looking at what Suzy said the other day which i though clarified things a bit better than the nonsense I was hearing the other night about an event that is by definition random until proven otherwise. So its immediate attribution to a chosen category of person is inherently dodgy.

"The event in a Luton hotel was cancelled by the hotel, not Eagle's people, because the hotel had a policy of not taking bookings for political events."
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That was the understanding i thought to be pretty widespread, was surprised to hear a different version being put forth on Friday

"The problem with the brick through the window (in a rough part of Wallasey, and opposite a pub)"
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I looked at the Wallasey crime statistics yesterday and see that there seem to be around 80 events of vandalism per month.
https://www.police.uk/merseyside/A1/crime/criminal-damage-arson/
So wonder how the local police already dealing with that frequency would be viewing this, which also appears to lack any witnesses, apart from as a random act designated under whatever category. Looks like that would be Criminal Damage and Arson from looking at that site. So I got the designation a bit wrong
& as far as I'm aware the onus of proof in the UK is for the law to prove the accused is not innocent i.e. recognising that one is innocent until proven guilty. That rather than pick a random category of person immediately one hears the news and say that it must have been one of them. Do hope that is still the prevalent thought. Really didn't seem to be in this case.

or
"was the way Eagle and her supporters immediately jumped to suggest a Corbyn supporter was behind it, as if getting that idea out there and injuring Corbyn was more important than a proper investigation."
Also, Merseyside police have denied approaching Eagle about cancelling her surgeries; they say she approached them."
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which might indicate how concrete a lead they had on things, as in not very. Also how strenuously the Police will be pursuing one of many cases when there has been nobody so far announced as a witness and there are a lot of probably similar crimes happening in the area.
I do wonder what they said to the other occupants of the shared building.
Also would hope that if things were targeted at her office they would have been aimed at her office, not the stairs.
I've heard teh occurrence reported as she had a brick through her constituency office window several times on the BBC News Channel over the weekend. Or at least mentioned in broadcast conversation as that. Would think that that might be something that would want to be vetoed since it is putting a more concrete image of an event that didn't take place as reported in the heads of the public but maybe that doesn't bother them

"Dealing with entrenched misogyny is an issue bigger than the people on the left who might be like that; the fact that two women have become PM who are Tories has nothing to do with Labour being too misogynist to choose a female leader, and everything to do with Conservatives being OK with women who play a Queen Bee figure, which is the absolute antithesis of feminism because it's one woman handed power at the expense of other women."
>
I'm also intrigued by this current attributon of teh development of widespread mysogyny, also antisemetism and homophobia to the last 9 months under Corbyn since I thought he was vehemently against that. Would think that if there is a culture of that anywhere in the Labour party it would need to be much older, but that doesn't seem to be the way it's being represented bY at least owen Smith.

Not a very nice picture of the Conservative party either, but I guess taht's to be expected.
I'm sure they must have some redeeming features somewhere.

I was puzzled by the story in the Sunday daily record today, which quoted smith as saying that kier Hardie would be horrified by the divisions I the Labour Party. Because it would seem to be the rebels that are causing the Labour Party to be preoccupied rather than focussing on the Tories. And corbyn's lot would seem more understandable to Hardie that the blairites.

In 1908, Hardie resigned as leader of the Labour Party and was replaced by Arthur Henderson.

A pacifist, Hardie was appalled by the First World War and along with socialists in other countries he tried to organise an international general strike to stop the war. His stance was not popular, even within the Labour Party, but he continued to address anti-war demonstrations across the country and to support conscientious objectors. After the outbreak of war, on 4 August 1914, Hardie's spirited anti-war speeches often received opposition in the form of loud heckling.

The dispute over spending and wage cuts split the Labour government; as it turned out, fatally. The cabinet repeatedly failed to agree to make cuts to spending or introduce tariffs. The resulting political deadlock caused investors to take fright, and a flight of capital and gold further de-stabilised the economy. In response, MacDonald, on the urging of the king agreed to form a National Government, with the Conservatives and the small group of Liberals. On 24 August 1931 MacDonald submitted the resignation of his ministers and led a small number of his senior colleagues, most notably Snowden and Dominions Secretary J. H. Thomas, in forming the National Government with the other parties. MacDonald and his supporters were then expelled from the Labour Party and formed National Labour. The remaining Labour Party, now led by Arthur Henderson, and a few Liberals went into opposition.

Surprise surprise, the likes of Owen Smith know fuck-all about the history of the Labour Party and the struggle for socialism within it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10156864

I hadn't realised it was Owen Smith that used this spectacularly ill-conceived metaphor about the coalition.

this is supposed to be the media-savvy electable one?

Yes, that one.

not been keeping up with all the developments on this but as far as being media savvy, our lord and saviour JC was pretty disappointing on newsnight last week. great that he hasnt undergone massive PR-blanding, but he looked a bit weird/irascible/petulant when asked about the cuban solidarity thing. the guy has to be one of the stiffest communicators in modern politics.

i finally put my finger on what bothers me about his interview style. every modern politician has an AGENDA, like 2 points they want to get across in an interview, and they just rattle those off no matter what question gets asked. jeremy corbyn doesn't do this, and it's slightly weird at first, and then it's cool, once you realise hey, this guy isn't just a robot rattling off talking points, he's actually responding to questions. the problem is, that's all he does, is respond to questions. he's purely reactive. sometimes he answers them quite well. but your opponents have an agenda, and they've lobbed their grenades into the court of public opinion, so reporters take those points and put them directly to corbyn. (this is How Journliasm Works). so corbyn is very rarely pressing his own case, he's reacting to others. he makes him come across as not very passionate, and always slightly on the back foot.

It's because he doesn't actually see any point in being there and is only in the studio because Seamus Milne has had to forcibly push him through the door.

yes i recognise that xpost

xpost - thats a pretty OTM take on where he falters.

i see it as him getting defensive. which makes him look less like a leader, and more like a bratty teenager. 'no i DIDNT do that!' he is just terrible on responding when cornered. its like he gets a bit panicked and ends up getting irritable/angry. its not like evan davis was grilling him, he was giving him quite a lot of space to breathe.

as for not having talking points, i get his updates on facebook, and they often seem to read quite similarly, so it seems he has a few. id say he has talking points, just no idea how to really elaborate on them, and get beyond the surface bullet points about being against austerity, etc.

(in a rough part of Wallasey, and opposite a pub)

Ok, it's the Liscard end, not the Egremont end, but I used to *dream* of living on Manor Road! [/ Four Yorkshiremen]

at least you had a view of something to dream of :p

Sarah Champion just asked for her front bench job back and appears to be getting it.
Wonder what to make of u-turning coup members.

JC doesn't have an interview style. Nor is he meant to have one.

re: Cuban solidarity he was defensive at first ("it was only 30 mins") but then I loved the bit where Evan did 'how is this relevant to someone in Barnsley?' and iirc he was able to say that it was and articulate a position of where ppl come from despite geographical distance - not so much on the back foot.

I'd say erratic more than anything. Most ppl just won't know where all this anti-imperialist malarkey is coming from - its been so pushed back. Just another universe to a lot of ppl and very hard to put across. JC isn't that person, but its what we have. "Only game in town" etc

I wonder if Sarah listened to that loathsome Smith profile on the wireless yesterday before deciding to unresign. I can't imagine any reasonable person listening to it and not thinking how far could I throw this fucker?

xyzzzz yes sometimes his answers are pretty great, and often don't sound defensive, but he's pretty much always playing on the field that's handed to him. which is a problem.

"Most ppl just won't know where all this anti-imperialist malarkey is coming from - its been so pushed back."

this isnt wrong but it would be nice if JC could find a way to put that point across. the opportunities for him to do it are there. i know anything like that is likely to make him an easy target for 'lol, the left' sort of comments, but id say people are more receptive, desperate even, for the agenda to be expanded right now.

er that is why he was voted as leader - JC/team came up with 'People's QE' and even though Brexit has largely been responsible the government are possibly taking this stuff seriously - it was derided as nonsense a year ago. This is an expansion of the agenda.

He puts enough of that stuff across. In the campaign launch he hinted at research being taken off pharma companies - again no concrete proposals but everytime he opens his mouth for long enough there is something to go on.

I just got a click on here to Ask the leadership candidates a question email from PLP. Wouldn't touch it with with the biggest ever barge pole tbh. Sharing the Labour family's values etc.

JUst watching Owen Smith oiling away on Newsnight tonight.
Now JC isn't Patriotic enough? Hadn't heard that before. Wouldn't have thought it was an issue . Is Owen angling for a new party when he doesn't get control of this one?

Not really been following what Owen Smith has been saying but ... I dunno ... for all Corbyn's faults, suggesting that he isn't patriotic enough seems a bit undignified.