Jeremy Corbyn vs Angela Eagle

He needs to play it back at them, actually go out and say that if they don't support whoever wins and refuse to form a functioning opposition then they will be the ones letting the country down.

People are still repeating the story of the brick through the constituency party office, just had somebody asking JC about it on the BBC News Channel. I thought news that it was on a related stairwell had spread pretty wide. So surprised this is still being spun.
Probably shouldn't be really. But god, how long is it going to repeat?

& JC said he'd apologised or rather sent commiserations or something. Since it wasn't down to him.
So it was definuitely something that was being spun at the time. THough i think that was well known.

I don't really understand the deselection process - why would it not trigger by-elections?

Is it that the deselection process just replaces who is going to be standing for a borough with another individual. & that doesn't have an effect on the schedule of local by-elections which is determined by something outside of the immediate situation.

Because they would remain a sitting MP until they either resign or a general election is called.

^^^ and remain a sitting Labour MP unless they chose otherwise

Just read this thing from The Canary about selectionof delegates for going to the Labour Party conference
http://www.thecanary.co/2016/07/22/newly-signed-labour-members-may-nasty-message-waiting-image-tweets/

hating democracy and free speech is a really strong look for these guys

The problem with deselection or reselection is that there's no guarantee that whoever comes in isn't going to have exactly the same problem with Corbyn. You can't blame him for not exactly wanting to guarantee job security for people who are actively trying to force him out though.

given that the majority of the PLP are expressing contempt for the party's supporters in word and deed giving those supporters a chance to express a view on this is absolutely necessary. hopefully thru as democratic a process as possible

@OwenSmith_MP says threat by Corbyn to make Labour MPs face re-selection is something you would find at Sports Direct.

How does he keep getting worse at this?

Vine - 'how do you stay relaxed in all of this?'

Corbyn - 'i eat normally'

"I eat, normally"?

I didn't see who brought up the attack on Eagle's constituency office window this morning on BBC News. Was it Smith?
Would think most people would find that underhanded but did see him on the news later talking about JC not being clearer that behaviour he was condemning was bad. So wondering if it was the same footage I only heard this morning.

The fact that it was a shared window doesn't matter, I think. Is there any reason for any of the others to have been targeted? Are vandal smashing commons there? I think it wouldn't be outlandish to assume that it was directed at her - there are assholes everywhere. Obviously you shouldn't claim it absolutely without more proof, and I think it's meaningless in terms of the contest because Corbyn has, I think, been clear about condemning such stuff. But I think there's a real chance she was the focus of the vandalism, and accusing her of lying is not a good look.

I thought the Police had it down as a botched Burglary attempt?

You mean a Watergate style operation by Momentum thugs? o_0

I thought the Police had it down as a botched Burglary attempt?

― Mark G, Friday, July 22, 2016 1:40 PM (13 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Somebody referred to it this morning and JC was asked about it on BBC news Channel today. I had thought it was as you say a botched burglary attempt. So am surprised it's still being brought up in terms of something JC needed to do something about.

Not sure if it was Smith but Smith is definitely saying JC should tell people to cease and desist leaving negative comments on his twitter feed. That's something that has been repeated on various newses on the channel today

I don't think you can really blame MPs for being nervous about threats and/or perceived intimidation just over a month after one was murdered in broad daylight. But I think some of this goes beyond feeling genuinely intimidated, what they're trying to do with this ban on eyerolling or whatever is to ban responses made in anger, often by the powerless, and there are so many things to be angry about right now. Sometimes being "civil" is the preserve of the privileged and it's denying other people a voice.

There are some cunts lining up behind Corbyn but the idea that outright abuse is confined to his side is self-evidently nonsense.

Smith has also said that none of this was around before JC became leader which is part of the interview taht's been repeated on the BBC news channel all day so will probably be turning up elsewhere.

& to m is a long way beyond unbelievable.

Just like Mr U-Turn complaining about JC vacillating

corbyn's being asked about it because eagle has cancelled her surgeries on police advice and then gone on to specifically say that corbyn is partially to blame for "stirring up trouble"

Looks like it was ian Watson who is a correspondent for the BBC I think who asked JC about the Eagle office brick episode, as though nothing further had been revealed since then. But since I thought it was being looked at as a botched robbery I did find it very weird. has anybody else in the building been forced to change their normal schedule because somebody vandalised the stair window?

If you ask loudly on the internet "Is this woman lying about this abuse", there'll always be people who'll tell you yes - if the police have described it as botched robbery then they've done so too quietly for Google to notice. Which is not to say that they haven't - if you've got an official police statement then that's cool, if not it might be an idea to sit on your hands for a bit.

If only this much effort could be putting in to condemning May/the Tories.

if not it might be an idea to sit on your hands for a bit.
>
Until when? A photograph of a broken window in Angela Eagle's office not the stairwell of the office block appears.
Gee I'll hold my breath then eh?

You claimed the police had said something specific, can you back this up?

I thought the Police had it down as a botched Burglary attempt?

― Mark G, Friday, July 22, 2016 1:40 PM (13 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Was where it was said i.e. not me

otherwise there have been various videos of the building and photos of the office with no broken window and the stairwell with a broken window around online. & various people talking about it which is why I thought it was widesopread news.

& since the photo is of the stairwell not the office I would think it odd taht the police were following up a story on an act of vandalism that didn't go down as has been otherwise reported.

it's totally plausible that this was somebody disgruntled with Angela Eagle, and it's unlikely we'll ever know one way or another, so i wouldn't question the truth of the claim but point out that it's still stupid, obnoxious and slanderous to try and blame Corbyn for it

"I had thought it was as you say a botched burglary attempt." - are you being hacked by the PLP there, Stevo?

You claimed the police had said something specific, can you back this up?

― Frederik B, Friday, July 22, 2016 7:03 PM (14 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Watch out, Fred's about.

just the facts, ma'am

There is nothing wrong with what I said . There is very little to go on in terms of blaming people following Corbyn for the vandalism of the windows of a stairwell is there? BUt that is the way it has been milked. I thought they had given up on that line of pursuit as fruitless since the actual window that was broken has been exposed

& where exactly in my comment do I say that the police said that? I said I thought that was the way it was being looked at since I do think that was true, at least until this morning when somebody brought it up again and asked Corbyn about it. Which i thought a bit dim since the photograph of the stairwell is the only one circulating with any signs of damage. The only photos of the Labour constituency office I've seen have had the window absolutely intact. & it's in a more vulnerable place.

just the facts, ma'am

― Guangchang, thank you man (Noodle Vague), Friday, July 22, 2016 8:19 PM (12 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

& if taht was the way it was looked at from the start there wouldn't have been a story in the first place would there?

i was just joking about Fred's "Columbo" shtick

i largely agree with you Steve but it's hard to draw many conclusions either way - we don't need to think that Eagle is fabricating her concerns to say that it's ludicrous to blame Corbyn

It is unpleasant when shit like this happens. Once I had a brick thrown through my window and I never knew if it was personal or not. The weather was shit and the council wouldn't temp board it up until I got a crime number from disinterested cops who have better shit to do. I am sure under normal circumstances "Brick Thrown Through Window in Merseyside" wouldn't cause so much discussion. On the other hand I do have some sympathy with Angela, because female politicians do have to deal with some very unsavoury elements and probably more so than their male counterparts. In my constituency we have one recently murdered female MP and another who had to improve her security after receiving threats to rape and kill her last year. But Angela's talk of Corbyn creating the conditions under which this type of abuse is occurring is absolute shite.

Hi,

I'm saying "I thought I heard"

I'm fairly sure I heard, but that doesn't mean its true, or some time later they decided otherwise.

& where exactly in my comment do I say that the police said that?

I am kind of giving you the benefit of the doubt there? Like, if you're pushing the idea that she's making this up, or overreacting, or any of the other ways that attacks against women are generally minimised, then I'd rather assume that you're doing this because there's an official report by people who are paid to look at this, rather than "someone said something and there's a Youtube".

There has been a photograph of the broken window pretty widely circulated.
The story that this was directly an attack on her office has been spun since the window was broken. It was not the window of her office.
So benefit of what doubt. I mean really mate the idea that I need your approval to see that the whole thing is a misreporting of fact strikes me as a little creepy to say the very least.

Why would the police be looking into the breaking of a window on her office if the window wasn't to her office?

Moreover it was pretty immediately blamed on Corbyn supporters for some reason. Not sure where that came from.

You're splitting hairs now - do you think it's an attack on Eagle or not? It's obvious to me why the police investigated a brick through the window of an adjacent stairwell on the day she announces her candidacy (and the day before she gets a credible-sounding death threat).

I agree that it's nothing to do with Corbyn, but you seem to be bending yourself around a corkscrew to avoid the idea that it's an attack on her.

Reading reports, it's even in there that there was glass "up and down the stairs". Nobody was hiding that it was on a stairwell. It also happened on the night after she announced her leadership challenge, after which she was also bombarded with threats and abuse, to the extent that an event had to be cancelled due to security concerns. Anyone coming to the building where her office is, and seeing a brick thrown into the window of the communal stairwell, would be excused for thinking it was against her. And the idea that it's just a coincidental botched robbery attempt on the same night seems unlikely, honestly (though of course, it's possible). So yeah, I'd hope you'd have more proof than just youtube videos and conspiratorial webpages.

Ah now, don't mock the Youtube! We don't know what sinister media forces are responsible for the stifling of the work of Mr, er, "Music Fuhrer".

I find it very difficult to believe a word she says.
Obviously you do.

The event in a Luton hotel was cancelled by the hotel, not Eagle's people, because the hotel had a policy of not taking bookings for political events.

The problem with the brick through the window (in a rough part of Wallasey, and opposite a pub) was the way Eagle and her supporters immediately jumped to suggest a Corbyn supporter was behind it, as if getting that idea out there and injuring Corbyn was more important than a proper investigation. Also, Merseyside police have denied approaching Eagle about cancelling her surgeries; they say she approached them. Dealing with entrenched misogyny is an issue bigger than the people on the left who might be like that; the fact that two women have become PM who are Tories has nothing to do with Labour being too misogynist to choose a female leader, and everything to do with Conservatives being OK with women who play a Queen Bee figure, which is the absolute antithesis of feminism because it's one woman handed power at the expense of other women.

Absolutely nailed it there Suzy, Angela's dishonest dialogue doesn't address the real problems or do either side any favours.

Also, May's feminism - if it can be called that - is the white woman/collar strain and while the top of the iceberg can be characterised as vaguely girl power when it suits, the Conservative policies she is happy to preside over actually disadvantage most of womankind disproportionately, and her tenure as Home Sec has undermined women trying to claim asylum and economic migrants who have to earn past certain thresholds to get settlement rights (20 per cent pay gaps mean that men doing a £35k job might have non-EU female colleagues on £28k in the same job). I told her as much about 'posh woman's feminism' when I debated her, so it's not like she hasn't had 15+ years to become less superficially feminist, right?

I've just been hearing a new story about an intrusion into the office of Seema Malhorta by a Labour Aide being reported on the BBC News Channel. That looks like another non-story being blown up since the Labour Aide was trying to check if the room was being vacated on schedule. But the story has had John McDonnell Appeal to Labour members, MPs etc to stop trying to destroy the Party
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/john-mcdonnell-video-andrew-marr-labour-leadership-election-owen-smith-jeremy-corbyn-a7153186.html
and
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/24/john-mcdonnell-labour-stop-destroying-party

He said: “We’ve got to stop this. Am I on this camera? Let me just say this to Labour Party supporters, Labour members, members of the Parliamentary Labour Party.

“We’ve got to stop this now. There’s a small group out there that are willing to destroy our party just to remove Jeremy Corbyn.

“We’ve got to stop them, we’ve got to unite. And if you want to come for me and Jeremy Corbyn, well then that’s up to you.

“I want Owen and Jeremy and everyone to say: ‘Let’s stop this now’.”

and that story had me thinking about the other non-story being blown out of proportion as far as I can see. So am wondering why I'm still hearing it being reported on BBC news as though t was the Constituency office window. Which quite clearly it wasn't.

and looking at what Suzy said the other day which i though clarified things a bit better than the nonsense I was hearing the other night about an event that is by definition random until proven otherwise. So its immediate attribution to a chosen category of person is inherently dodgy.

"The event in a Luton hotel was cancelled by the hotel, not Eagle's people, because the hotel had a policy of not taking bookings for political events."
>
That was the understanding i thought to be pretty widespread, was surprised to hear a different version being put forth on Friday

"The problem with the brick through the window (in a rough part of Wallasey, and opposite a pub)"
>
I looked at the Wallasey crime statistics yesterday and see that there seem to be around 80 events of vandalism per month.
https://www.police.uk/merseyside/A1/crime/criminal-damage-arson/
So wonder how the local police already dealing with that frequency would be viewing this, which also appears to lack any witnesses, apart from as a random act designated under whatever category. Looks like that would be Criminal Damage and Arson from looking at that site. So I got the designation a bit wrong
& as far as I'm aware the onus of proof in the UK is for the law to prove the accused is not innocent i.e. recognising that one is innocent until proven guilty. That rather than pick a random category of person immediately one hears the news and say that it must have been one of them. Do hope that is still the prevalent thought. Really didn't seem to be in this case.

or
"was the way Eagle and her supporters immediately jumped to suggest a Corbyn supporter was behind it, as if getting that idea out there and injuring Corbyn was more important than a proper investigation."
Also, Merseyside police have denied approaching Eagle about cancelling her surgeries; they say she approached them."
>
which might indicate how concrete a lead they had on things, as in not very. Also how strenuously the Police will be pursuing one of many cases when there has been nobody so far announced as a witness and there are a lot of probably similar crimes happening in the area.
I do wonder what they said to the other occupants of the shared building.
Also would hope that if things were targeted at her office they would have been aimed at her office, not the stairs.
I've heard teh occurrence reported as she had a brick through her constituency office window several times on the BBC News Channel over the weekend. Or at least mentioned in broadcast conversation as that. Would think that that might be something that would want to be vetoed since it is putting a more concrete image of an event that didn't take place as reported in the heads of the public but maybe that doesn't bother them

"Dealing with entrenched misogyny is an issue bigger than the people on the left who might be like that; the fact that two women have become PM who are Tories has nothing to do with Labour being too misogynist to choose a female leader, and everything to do with Conservatives being OK with women who play a Queen Bee figure, which is the absolute antithesis of feminism because it's one woman handed power at the expense of other women."
>
I'm also intrigued by this current attributon of teh development of widespread mysogyny, also antisemetism and homophobia to the last 9 months under Corbyn since I thought he was vehemently against that. Would think that if there is a culture of that anywhere in the Labour party it would need to be much older, but that doesn't seem to be the way it's being represented bY at least owen Smith.

Not a very nice picture of the Conservative party either, but I guess taht's to be expected.
I'm sure they must have some redeeming features somewhere.

I was puzzled by the story in the Sunday daily record today, which quoted smith as saying that kier Hardie would be horrified by the divisions I the Labour Party. Because it would seem to be the rebels that are causing the Labour Party to be preoccupied rather than focussing on the Tories. And corbyn's lot would seem more understandable to Hardie that the blairites.

In 1908, Hardie resigned as leader of the Labour Party and was replaced by Arthur Henderson.

A pacifist, Hardie was appalled by the First World War and along with socialists in other countries he tried to organise an international general strike to stop the war. His stance was not popular, even within the Labour Party, but he continued to address anti-war demonstrations across the country and to support conscientious objectors. After the outbreak of war, on 4 August 1914, Hardie's spirited anti-war speeches often received opposition in the form of loud heckling.

The dispute over spending and wage cuts split the Labour government; as it turned out, fatally. The cabinet repeatedly failed to agree to make cuts to spending or introduce tariffs. The resulting political deadlock caused investors to take fright, and a flight of capital and gold further de-stabilised the economy. In response, MacDonald, on the urging of the king agreed to form a National Government, with the Conservatives and the small group of Liberals. On 24 August 1931 MacDonald submitted the resignation of his ministers and led a small number of his senior colleagues, most notably Snowden and Dominions Secretary J. H. Thomas, in forming the National Government with the other parties. MacDonald and his supporters were then expelled from the Labour Party and formed National Labour. The remaining Labour Party, now led by Arthur Henderson, and a few Liberals went into opposition.