Jeremy Corbyn vs Angela Eagle

of course, I know you meant as a person rather than as a politician.

http://home.bt.com/images/labour-leadership-contender-owen-smith-would-renationalise-the-railways-tomorrow-136407410761610401-160717230029.jpg

i like a man who is prepared to roll his sleeves up and point a lot at imaginary things. he's very dynamic, don't you know?

oh that's straight out of the Blair playbook. not sure about the moustachioed woman on his left tho

They've got a hundred and however many MPs to choose from, it's genuinely astonishing to me they've settled on one this mediocre.

hey there's time for some more comedy candidates yet

what the PLP is doing, i just can't

has there ever been an example of this sort of party undermining, cutting one's nose off to spite one's face? ever?

i mean SURELY the politically expedient grown-up thing to do would be to thrash this out privately and publicly stand together apart from a few free votes "of conscience". i mean even by their own standards of craven self-interest this is completely self-defeating?

Corbyn is too popular to be removed through normal channels. At least, for now. They need to present the party as publicly on the verge of splitting to pressurise soft Corbyn supporters into voting for a 'unity' candidate. It has to be messy and melodramatic or it won't have a hope of working. The interesting question isn't so much the means but the timing.

Popular / stubborn. The plan was clearly for him to resign quietly.

it's incredible that labour were handed one of the biggest open goals in recent political history with the fallout from Brexit and they've still managed to smash he ball not just over the crossbar but right out of the stadium

brian

When he wins, Labour MPs will finally need to pull their heads out of their arses and address the bigger issue, namely the complete atrophying of trust between a majority of Labour members and their MPs.

They couldn't even organise a coup properly, and I can't see them doing this. Too many years of mutual contempt.

Corbyn and team have to prepare the ground for a split.

Piece today is a preview: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/19/the-fight-for-labours-soul-what-the-partys-brutal-1981-split-means-today

A split does no one any favours other than the Tories really. I just can't see any wing of the party going for it, Corbyn is a 70 year old man, he isn't going to be around forever, and the landscape can change very quickly indeed.

He's 67! I don't see there being a split either.

split isn't in anyone's interests bar the tories and scottish nationalists

youd have labour safe seats going to the tories with the vote-splitting of the core labour vote from corbyn's continuity labour vs sdp2 vs ukip

Landfill indie putting its queer shoulder to the wheel: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/19/liberals-celebrities-and-eu-supporters-set-up-progressive-movement?CMP=twt_gu

"The initiative has the support of Jonathon Porritt, the environmentalist, Caroline Criado-Perez, the feminist writer, and Luke Pritchard from the band Kooks, as a space for people who want a voice for openness and tolerance."

I think that Beckett piece is correct in saying they moved too fast for Corbyn, before he even had a chance too fail. Blaming him for Brexit when his figures were the same as Sturgeon's wasn't too smart either.

Chuka was openly ridiculing Corbyn on R4 to the amusement of IDS, this was the day before the referendum and he was allegedly on the programme to give reasoned arguments for Remain - which by the way he didn't do very well and was more into some IDS bantz. For me these people can go form Continuity Labour, even if it means 2 more terms of Tories.

^ Yeah, this is kind of what I really struggle with.

I can get that anyone might think "Corbyn will never win a general election." But getting rid of him seems to be so much more important to members of his own party than anything.

Perhaps I am naïve.

Corbyn isn't going to be around for ever, but if he wins he could be around for 2-3 years and he'll introduce further changes - or certainly press hard. Can the rest of these idiots really put up with that? It only helps the Tories but the coup was awful timing (as Calzino and Beckett and many others say), they couldn't bide their time post-Brexit vote and milk Cameron's resignation. Why would they wait for a turn of events to weaken the trust between Corbyn and the membership. They might be lucky but its a big if.

I don't see the Tories being all nice and united either btw. Gideon was meant to be PM-in-waiting not too long ago. They just got rid of the PM after a year 'governing' in a (albeit tiny) majority.

These idiots have done plenty to help the Tories already. Not only Post-Brexit but also over the non-debate around Trident yesterday. Now off to the wilderness of a weak challenge to the leadership. This will only strenghten the bonds between the membership and Corbyn's team, give a further boost to Momentum, and of course even before the changes there was a healthy boost to the membership. Incredible idiocy.

not sure about the moustachioed woman on his left tho

that's no ordinary moustachioed woman - that's THE MILIFAN

lol and i've just realised looking back at that picture, he obviously said "round up some young people for me"

god imagine being full of youthful idealism for Owen Smith

i genuinely can't

she supported andy burnham the last time round

tbf she's clearly got the razor-sharp political instincts which would make her a valued member of the plp

supporting Owen Smith at her age she'll be in the Monday Club by the time she's 50

at least the young william hague backed a winner ffs

lols!

LOL her headmaster is (wait for it) Andy Burnham's brother.

Basically what I was saying is that both sides would really rather continue to make gasfaces at one another than split and both end up in oblivion. The right of Labour would be nothing without the red rosette and most of them would be out at the next election even if they did split. The left of Labour wouldn't get anywhere without the numbers in the meantime, and didn't tolerate 13 years of Blair and Brown just to split off now. Even together neither of them are going anywhere worth going.

I'm pretty sure Corbyn's plan isn't to turn Labour into a slightly bigger version of the Greens but who can even tell.

If the Shadow Cabinet had waited a year or so then a more orderly transition might have been possible, as it stands they've shat themselves in anticipation of an election that now probably won't happen.

Making my way through this piece (a reply to another piece linked on ILX) that gives an account of the kinds of activism taking place, "taking stock", etc. Making my way through now.

Not sure what this "orderly transition" stuff is about. He could've lost but he has never been that down in the polls I've seen. The polling nationally wasn't at all awful (hardly amazing but not awful).

Alternatively, for Corbyn to give up a year from now Labour would have had to run on a platform with this hypothetical leader that was way further to the left than almost any of the Lab right would've been comfortable with. Lots of concessions in the manifesto they wouldn't have tolerated.

I feel like Teresa May has already been PM for like 9 years

What's the story on the shadow cabinet being elected not selected. Haven't heard that idea before Newsnight tonight.
& i assume that a labour MP called Steve Kinnock may be related to somebody more famous of the same name?

Funny watching an Anti-Corbyn lobbyist(or at least chugger)saying that Owen Smith and him are almost exactly the same

until 2011 the shadow cabinet was elected by the PLP, Miliband changed this in 2011 so that the shadow cabinet is appointed by the leader. ironically, the hard left was mostly against this at the time afaict - McDonnell said he was against it at the time and Corbyn had initially proposed bringing the old system back during his leadership bid, similarly to various other made over the years changes to strengthen the leadership that were supported by the right and opposed by the left as no-one predicted that someone from the hard-left would become leader

https://twitter.com/egg_dog/status/755442266156785664

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2016/07/entirely-fake-owen-smith/

Don't think that last comment from last night from me was clear. In the video of people chugging for the leadership vote that was either on Newsnight or BBC news before that started the posh female Anti-Corbynite chugger said that there was basically no difference between Smith and Corbyn. Which seemed a bit strange if she's trying to push the opposite message.

she's not, Smith was on Radio 4 this morning and the message is "I am a lefty and I have some lefty policies but I'm gonna be a better leader than Corbyn"

the broad outline of what he promised wasn't horrible - large investments in public infrastructure including health, social housing and schools. he also more or less categorically apologised for past suggestions that there was a place for the private sector in the NHS - even said the Blair government "made a mistake" on some of its reforms

still don't trust him, like

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn16102-material-slicker-than-teflon-discovered-by-accident/

lol

Just watched Owen Smith being interviewed. Jesus, he is embarrassingly awful. Will have to double down on my efforts to avoid anything connected with the Labour Party for the next year or so. Trivial point but if you're going to tell a heart warming story about going down to your local with the missus to watch the Belgium v. Wales then you'd at least better get the score right.

This is the worst Teflon ever, all my eggs are stuck to the bottom of the pan and have gone all manky.

Yes, i don't know how someone with extensive PR and broadcast journalism experience can come off so badly. For all his wider media faults, Corbyn is pretty decent at dealing with interviewers.

Competence leadership competence leadership oh shit he just said the exact opposite of what he meant to say in his first major interview.

I hope Corbyn actually has a plan for what happens when he wins.

hope it involves death squads

Yes, i don't know how someone with extensive PR and broadcast journalism experience can come off so badly. For all his wider media faults, Corbyn is pretty decent at dealing with interviewers.

Exactly what I was thinking, no matter what you might think of Corbyn's PR skills, or lack of them, he's never been as bad as this.